Current room scale implimentations

Charlie_D

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So I've moved this conversation here. In a previous thread I compared the current 'room scale' implimentation (specifically both Vive wands and the unlreleased Oculus Touch) to the Wiimotes on their initial release. I sensed hostility. :)

I fully admit that I've only used the Vive wands for a few hours (a buddy has the Vive, I have the Rift), and I just set up a swap for this coming weekend for a little more 'hands-on' time, since Oculus can't get it's shit together to release the Touch controllers until sometime in the 2020s.

In the meantime: am I really that wrong? Those of you with a Vive, chime in here because I'd really love to be. I see a lot of parallels between the original release of the Wiimotes and their associated games (people flailing all around the room and having a lot of fun, devolving into couch-sitting wrist flicks), and the current crop of titles we have.
 

NickJames

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The wands, as unwieldy as they are, are still the best way to communicate roomscale to the player. Being able to casually move around and pick stuff up in the world with the wands is the greatest thing I have experienced in the VR world. I can shoot a rifle and catch the empty shell casing with my hand, I can throw things across the room I can juggle, honestly there's no comparison to any current technology available. I wish they were a bit smaller and more ergonomic but hey, they beat Oculus to the punch and that's what matters right now. Hopefully the Vive team can come up with a better solution later as I feel the side triggers are a pain to use and the grip is rather tiresome.

Room scale is nothing like the Wii, you have the freedom to move around and grab things out of your peripheral view without having to do any kind of awkward movement. Once you start to feel more natural with playing you start to really get immersed in the virtual world and it's really the defining characteristic between the Vive and Oculus but such a drastic different that it puts the Vive in a completely different league of VR technology. Games that truly make use of room scale deliver an incredible experience unlike the Wii where most games shoehorned the whole Wiimote concept and made it very easy to trick or get tiresome pointing at the screen with horrendous accuracy.
 

SBSuperfly

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...am I really that wrong? ...

Short answer, yes. I read all af your comments in the other thread. Vive owners like myself are best people to comment on the room scale vs seated experience because they have both experiences readily available. VR just simply is not VR without room scale and proper controls. I can see the value of an Oculus if you own a HOTAS or a steering wheel and you're primarily interested in seated experiences like Project Cars or Elite Dangerous, or maybe you just want the porn. The problem with that is you're drastically limiting your VR experience. I don't know anyone with a Vive that would give up the room scale experince. I find that I use my Vive about 80% room scale and 20% seated. The cord can be annoying but you naturally feel it and work around it without thinking. It doesn't seem to take away from the immersion. I have on occasion pulled the cord to hard and in those instances the cord pulls from the break box and the HMD shuts off, it's really not possible to break the headset by tension on the cord.
 

Ryan7968

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Well, you're in VR with the Vive. Sure, with both the Wii and the Vive you are flailing your arms around but I think that is a very crude way to compare them and it completely disregards how immersive roomscale is with the incredibly accurate tracking.

The best comparison between the Wii and the Vive (besides arm flailing) is that they can appeal to those who normally don't care for video games. Wii Sports never made you feel like you were actually in the bowling alley, it was just a different control method that felt very natural compared to a gamepad. The Vive motion controllers feel even more accurate and natural, and combined with the playspace to move around in and the immersiveness that is VR, you end up with something that truly makes you feel like you are no longer in your basement but walking around in this VR environment.
 

Youn

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Also don't forget Touch's finger tracking, which may well add an extra level of fun, immersion, and gameplay mechanics, over Vive's wands...
 

Tamlin_WSGF

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So I've moved this conversation here. In a previous thread I compared the current 'room scale' implimentation (specifically both Vive wands and the unlreleased Oculus Touch) to the Wiimotes on their initial release. I sensed hostility. :)

I fully admit that I've only used the Vive wands for a few hours (a buddy has the Vive, I have the Rift), and I just set up a swap for this coming weekend for a little more 'hands-on' time, since Oculus can't get it's shit together to release the Touch controllers until sometime in the 2020s.

In the meantime: am I really that wrong? Those of you with a Vive, chime in here because I'd really love to be. I see a lot of parallels between the original release of the Wiimotes and their associated games (people flailing all around the room and having a lot of fun, devolving into couch-sitting wrist flicks), and the current crop of titles we have.

I think most probably thought your comparison between the Vive controllers and the Wii was apples to carrots. VR vs a tv-screen or a monitor are different experiences even with the same type of controller. You have a Rift and I bet you cannot honestly say that using the Xbox 360 controller in VR is the same experience as using it on a TV? Even though its the exact same controller, the experiences differs, since its two different type of media its used on.

When you try the Vive this weekend, please check out the following in "the lab" experience:
The tension created by the controller when you use the bow pulling the string, and the resistance created by the controller when you move over to the white board and use the eraser.

Try out Hover Junkers and look at the guns in your hand. The grip of the controller is well matched the guns and the 1:1 tracking of the controllers make movement of the guns feel very smooth and natural.

Try out Vanishing realms. Feel how its like to face your oponents in virtual reality AS a character, pick up stuff and put it in your backpack (or more a toolbelt really in that game) and imagine how much less of an experience it would be to sit down and control a character.

Try out Budget cuts demo and get a feel how its like using walls as a cover, ducking down so the robots doesnt see you. Open drawers to find the key in the beginning, bend down under the table and open the safe by inserting the key with your "hands". Keep an open mind and try to imagine if this would be a better experience sitting down or if you actually have more fun being able to interact with your whole body with roomscale tracking.

The Vive controller is very well build. The way it can use microvibrations to make the interactions more believable and the 1:1 tracking makes it much easier to forget you are holding a controller and instead pretend its a shield, sword or a gun. Its a good "multitool" in VR.

Oculus touch might be even better, giving you finger tracking. A controller in VR is another playing field and much more important, due to the concept of presence VR is aiming for.

When you adjust the Vive for the first time, heres a few tips you might find useful:
Loosen the top strap. Pull the cable a bit up. Put the headset on back to front. Adjust the sidestraps, then the top strap. Pull out the knobs on both side of the side straps and turn the wheel. This adjusts the distance to the lenses and gives you maximum FOV and sweetspot. By default (at least not on mine), its not all the way in. On the right side, you can adjust your IPD with a little knob. :)
 

Charlie_D

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Mar 7, 2007
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872
I think most probably thought your comparison between the Vive controllers and the Wii was apples to carrots. VR vs a tv-screen or a monitor are different experiences even with the same type of controller. You have a Rift and I bet you cannot honestly say that using the Xbox 360 controller in VR is the same experience as using it on a TV? Even though its the exact same controller, the experiences differs, since its two different type of media its used on.

When you try the Vive this weekend, please check out the following in "the lab" experience:
The tension created by the controller when you use the bow pulling the string, and the resistance created by the controller when you move over to the white board and use the eraser.

Try out Hover Junkers and look at the guns in your hand. The grip of the controller is well matched the guns and the 1:1 tracking of the controllers make movement of the guns feel very smooth and natural.

Try out Vanishing realms. Feel how its like to face your oponents in virtual reality AS a character, pick up stuff and put it in your backpack (or more a toolbelt really in that game) and imagine how much less of an experience it would be to sit down and control a character.

Try out Budget cuts demo and get a feel how its like using walls as a cover, ducking down so the robots doesnt see you. Open drawers to find the key in the beginning, bend down under the table and open the safe by inserting the key with your "hands". Keep an open mind and try to imagine if this would be a better experience sitting down or if you actually have more fun being able to interact with your whole body with roomscale tracking.

The Vive controller is very well build. The way it can use microvibrations to make the interactions more believable and the 1:1 tracking makes it much easier to forget you are holding a controller and instead pretend its a shield, sword or a gun. Its a good "multitool" in VR.

Oculus touch might be even better, giving you finger tracking. A controller in VR is another playing field and much more important, due to the concept of presence VR is aiming for.

When you adjust the Vive for the first time, heres a few tips you might find useful:
Loosen the top strap. Pull the cable a bit up. Put the headset on back to front. Adjust the sidestraps, then the top strap. Pull out the knobs on both side of the side straps and turn the wheel. This adjusts the distance to the lenses and gives you maximum FOV and sweetspot. By default (at least not on mine), its not all the way in. On the right side, you can adjust your IPD with a little knob. :)

We swapped this morning, so I'll take your adjustments and recommendations into consideration, thanks. :)
 

{NG}Fidel

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Room Scale VR is something I wanna try but the damn wires put me off to it. I know if I went to a product demo I would be impressed but as soon as I get to my cluttered ass home with my two pets I would have issues.
 

NickJames

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Room Scale VR is something I wanna try but the damn wires put me off to it. I know if I went to a product demo I would be impressed but as soon as I get to my cluttered ass home with my two pets I would have issues.

You definitely need to have a clean open space to get optimal efficiency out of the Vive. I have a cousin with 3 kids and he his small 6x4 foot space with baby toys and furniture just didn't cut it so he ended up returning it. Almost got ripped off his face twice by kids running across the room. For some games just having a standing experience is fine but I recommend being able to use full room scale to its advantage to get the most out of it.
 

Tamlin_WSGF

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Messages
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LOL! Vive should come with optional equipment:

* Chores list (kids repellent)
* Vacuum cleaner (pets worst enemy)
* Credit card holder (wife be-gone)
 

gsilver

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Oct 12, 2010
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Room Scale VR is something I wanna try but the damn wires put me off to it. I know if I went to a product demo I would be impressed but as soon as I get to my cluttered ass home with my two pets I would have issues.
There's no getting around the headset tether when you're using it, but I used some painted molding to run the lightbox wires up the wall, so when it's not in use, there's basically no wire clutter. The painting also makes it match the walls.


Upside of living in Utah: The make the houses too big, so I actually had to reel in the lighthouses from my available space o_O
 

Charlie_D

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Late response I know; I just sold my house so I've been packing all week.

Yes, it was a fun experience. The cord was annoying and I really wanted to actually move in the environment, but again hopefully those limitations will disappear.

After a full weekend with the Vive, my biggest take away was that I dislike the headset itself. The wands I'll admit are quite neat ( :) ), but the headset... there's such a small focus area that you have to basically look straight ahead, which I'm not used to doing. It's also a bit front heavy... I definitely knew it was there. It actually reminded me of the original GearVR weight-wise.

The games were fun though, and there's definitely promise.
 
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