Z490 vs Z590 chipset.

aQi

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Hello my fellow members.

I know i should google it up but my influence comes from personal experience. I was planning to get either one of these chipset motherboards. Probably the Asus rog ones but I need to see if there is any major difference considering Z590 over Z490.
Both sport features for 11th gen cpus. If there is not a dramatic change in Z590 I would probably go for the Z490 with 11th gen cpu to harvest my computing.

I am planning to build the rig with 32gb of 4400mhz of ram and 11500f (later to 11900k).
Storage is not decided but I will try to get 2 identical 1tb PCI express 4.0 drives for raid 0 configurations.

Appreciate your input guys. Hard on
 
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mda

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No multiple PCIE 4 M2 support on Z490 since you mentioned it. You'll probably get one M2 max and the PCIE x16 slot on PCIE4.
 
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E4g1e

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Actually, on Z490 all of the m.2 slots are run off of the chipset, and that the 4-lane connection between the CPU and the Z490 chipset runs at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. Thus, any PCI-e 4.0 m.2 SSDs will have to run at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. What's worse, no Z490 motherboard can accommodate the extra four lanes from the 11th-Gen CPUs' connection, so only the GPU gets the extra bandwidth. Everything else goes through the bandwidth-limited chipset.

And even with Z590, only one of the m.2 SSDs will run at PCI-e 4.0 bandwidth. All other m.2 SSDs must still run through the chipset, which unfortunately is still using PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth although its connection to the CPU now uses eight lanes versus the four lanes for the Z490.

And why buy an 11th-Gen CPU to begin with, knowing that most 11th-Gen desktop CPUs have a very poor performance-to-power-consumption ratio? And the 11th-Gen CPU/motherboard/DDR4 combo does not cost all that much less than a 12th-Gen CPU/mobo/DDR5 combo for a significantly slower performance.

Finally, you did not specify a discrete GPU: All F-series Intel CPUs absolutely require a discrete GPU just to even work at all. So, with no specified GPU your planned system may not even be usable at all until you get one.
 
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aQi

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Actually, on Z490 all of the m.2 slots are run off of the chipset, and that the 4-lane connection between the CPU and the Z490 chipset runs at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. Thus, any PCI-e 4.0 m.2 SSDs will have to run at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. What's worse, no Z490 motherboard can accommodate the extra four lanes from the 11th-Gen CPUs' connection, so only the GPU gets the extra bandwidth. Everything else goes through the bandwidth-limited chipset.

And even with Z590, only one of the m.2 SSDs will run at PCI-e 4.0 bandwidth. All other m.2 SSDs must still run through the chipset, which unfortunately is still using PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth although its connection to the CPU now uses eight lanes versus the four lanes for the Z490.

And why buy an 11th-Gen CPU to begin with, knowing that most 11th-Gen desktop CPUs have a very poor performance-to-power-consumption ratio? And the 11th-Gen CPU/motherboard/DDR4 combo does not cost all that much less than a 12th-Gen CPU/mobo/DDR5 combo for a significantly slower performance.

Finally, you did not specify a discrete GPU: All F-series Intel CPUs absolutely require a discrete GPU just to even work at all. So, with no specified GPU your planned system may not even be usable at all until you get one.
I will be using gtx750ti for the meanwhile as I am not a hardcore gamers after all. I did the maths and I would probably end getting a new set of ddr5 not as good as the 4400mhz ddr4 (do not want to spend more atm)
The cpu i have is indeed 11th gen but was on a good price comparing the 12400f.
All the sculpture being made is to get things going on a budget friendly case. Otherwise 12th gen is the way to go but will have to exceed my pocket limit.
The drive being limited to 3.0 pci express standards should be any issue ? Or should I be of worried and still to 1tb dual nvme raid 0 as a must ? I have read alot that there is no noticable difference between gen 3 and gen 4 nvme but even raid 0 has not effect ?
Gen 3 raid would do just fine then ?
And btw why the cpu lanes on z490 cannot be used as gen 4 standards when it should have been ?
images (27).jpeg


images (28).jpeg
 
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I will be using gtx750ti for the meanwhile as I am not a hardcore gamers after all. I did the maths and I would probably end getting a new set of ddr5 not as good as the 4400mhz ddr4 (do not want to spend more atm)
The cpu i have is indeed 11th gen but was on a good price comparing the 12400f.
All the sculpture being made is to get things going on a budget friendly case. Otherwise 12th gen is the way to go but will have to exceed my pocket limit.
The drive being limited to 3.0 pci express standards should be any issue ? Or should I be of worried and still to 1tb dual nvme raid 0 as a must ? I have read alot that there is no noticable difference between gen 3 and gen 4 nvme but even raid 0 has not effect ?
Gen 3 raid would do just fine then ?
And btw why the cpu lanes on z490 cannot be used as gen 4 standards when it should have been ?
View attachment 471042

View attachment 471043
You can only use DDR5 with Z690. Also are you planning on doing lots of disk heavy stuff? Otherwise the raid will be pretty useless.
 
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Ducrider748

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As fast as nvme drives are what would the reason for raid 0? Especially if you are going with a 11500f. The 490 or 590 boards are way ahead in speed compared to old chip sets. Are they the best there is? I would say no. I don't see a big enough difference between the two if you are coming from a older system.
 
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singe_101

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If we're only looking at new products buy Z590 for resale value or it's better as a gift to someone years from now.

ASUS added WiFi 6E on at least one ROG board, not a big deal to me but one change from Z490 in 2020.

Try out the ASUS M.2 PCI-express x16 adapter and they even had an adapter for one DIMM slot.
 
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StormNobleheart

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I would go with the Z590 if you want to pair a board with an 11th generation CPU. Depending upon the board, you can have two m.2 slots with PCIe 4.0 like the Asus RoG Maximus Hero XIII I have. It accomplishes this by using the four lanes dedicated to the first m.2 slot from the CPU and splitting off four lanes from the sixteen typically used for the GPU to the second m.2 slot. The first 16x slot runs at 8x and the second 16x slot runs at 4x. Even if you had a 10400 CPU, I would still get the Z590 if you want to upgrade the CPU later. I would also look into the costs for a 12th generation system using DDR4.
 
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aQi

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You can only use DDR5 with Z690. Also are you planning on doing lots of disk heavy stuff? Otherwise the raid will be pretty useless.
Pretty much the same as system will stay online 24/7 harvesting all the networking and storage. Multiple users profiles will be there as this precious system will be sitting in hall for everyone for all sorts or usage.
I will also be powering it up with any good platinum rated psu. I have dual redundant asus psu*s but they are insane loud (750w each). I have another old but solid kingwin 500w fanless platinum PSU but I guess its would be abit less if I get a power hungry gpu.
About using ddr5 with z690 well not all Z690 are ddr5 there are couple of them with ddr4 compatibility but I dont know whats the point of using a ddr4 memory with Z690.

As fast as nvme drives are what would the reason for raid 0? Especially if you are going with a 11500f. The 490 or 590 boards are way ahead in speed compared to old chip sets. Are they the best there is? I would say no. I don't see a big enough difference between the two if you are coming from a older system.
Thats the point bro forget the configurations for once and thinking of coming from pci gen 3. This system is for the time being the most budget friendly system I can buy where I can spend less and get more. The RAID O is not an option on z490 or z590 if i want them to pci gen 4. So thats gona drop, i thought like ryzen cpu and x570 dual m2 gen 4 was possible on 11th gen. I still want to confirm if I get a z490 M-XII-Hero and 11500f. Will it provide me with those pci gen 4 20 lanes ? Specs sheet tells the 11500f provides all those 20 lanes with respect to pci gen 4 but what about z490. Will I be able to get those lanes. I think it should as this used to be the case with 2nd and 3rd gen cpus and variety of chipsets at the time supported the new gen 3 with 3rd gen cpus after bios update.
If we're only looking at new products buy Z590 for resale value or it's better as a gift to someone years from now.

ASUS added WiFi 6E on at least one ROG board, not a big deal to me but one change from Z490 in 2020.

Try out the ASUS M.2 PCI-express x16 adapter and they even had an adapter for one DIMM slot.
Which ROG board had that ? Im planning to get that ROG Maximus XII Hero Z490 chipset. Yes the quad m2 card is amazing but i guess that will also be gen 3 and requires a x16 slot to fully utilise those speeds. Pretty much great even if its gen 3. Not sure as asus had dimm 2 slot for that i guess apex has that but adapter for one DIMM slot ??? GinkeeZz thats new. Do show me.

I would go with the Z590 if you want to pair a board with an 11th generation CPU. Depending upon the board, you can have two m.2 slots with PCIe 4.0 like the Asus RoG Maximus Hero XIII I have. It accomplishes this by using the four lanes dedicated to the first m.2 slot from the CPU and splitting off four lanes from the sixteen typically used for the GPU to the second m.2 slot. The first 16x slot runs at 8x and the second 16x slot runs at 4x. Even if you had a 10400 CPU, I would still get the Z590 if you want to upgrade the CPU later. I would also look into the costs for a 12th generation system using DDR4.
Yes thats what i but getting but its again a Z490 Maximus XII Hero. Thats the only rog motherboard i am getting from a friend upgrading to 12th gen. The config you just wrote are the same if I get a 10th gen with gen 3 support and 11500f will provide those with gen 4. But but but im not sure that z490 will even let it gen 4 swim through it. Thats my confusion otherwise i will just have to stick with what Im getting. 12th gen is out of reach and those ddr4 boards feels kind of left behind. Can you tell me if I get that z490 hero which is being narrowed option, will it be able to give me those pci gen 4 lanes ?
 

StormNobleheart

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Unfortunately, the Z490 will not let you run the PCIe lanes of the 11500f at generation 4.0 speeds. It will also only use 16 of the 20 lanes. I have the Maximus Hero XII sitting in my closet as well and tried an 11700K just to see if it would give PCIe 4.0 speeds on the two 16x slots like some AMD 400 series chipsets got away with. I was hoping that I could build a computer for my youngest brother without buying a new motherboard and just buying an m.2 to PCIe adapter card for a Samsung 980 Pro. It did not work as I only got PCIe 3 speeds from the SSD.
 
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aQi

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Unfortunately, the Z490 will not let you run the PCIe lanes of the 11500f at generation 4.0 speeds. It will also only use 16 of the 20 lanes. I have the Maximus Hero XII sitting in my closet as well and tried an 11700K just to see if it would give PCIe 4.0 speeds on the two 16x slots like some AMD 400 series chipsets got away with. I was hoping that I could build a computer for my youngest brother without buying a new motherboard and just buying an m.2 to PCIe adapter card for a Samsung 980 Pro. It did not work as I only got PCIe 3 speeds from the SSD.
That puts me in a bad position now I was all way up to close the deal with my friend for either his maximus vii her or vii formula.
Did your motherboard had the latest bios ? If so did you used all the pci slots to check if its the same ?
I remember not only with amd it use to be the case with 2nd gen boards and 3rd gen processors with pci gen 3 gfx cards.
It cant seem to find any logic behind the lock lf gen 4 on these master piece motherboards.
 

StormNobleheart

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I built the machine late last year. I have not heard anything about those boards since then supporting PCIe 4.0 speeds. The 10th generation core CPU's were supposed to have PCIe 4.0 and support was scrapped because they signal issues.
 
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aQi

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I built the machine late last year. I have not heard anything about those boards since then supporting PCIe 4.0 speeds. The 10th generation core CPU's were supposed to have PCIe 4.0 and support was scrapped because they signal issues.
10th gen were restricted to pci gen 3 support only. It was more like a premature 11 gen processors.
 

singe_101

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Which ROG board had that ? Im planning to get that ROG Maximus XII Hero Z490 chipset. Yes the quad m2 card is amazing but i guess that will also be gen 3 and requires a x16 slot to fully utilise those speeds. Pretty much great even if its gen 3. Not sure as asus had dimm 2 slot for that i guess apex has that but adapter for one DIMM slot ??? GinkeeZz thats new. Do show me.

You would buy the DIMM adapter on eBay if it's fun but expensive. They were on ROG Maximus IX Apex boards in Feb 2017 and that era. But it isn't a necessary adapter for 2021 motherboards and the SSD prices fell from Feb 2017.
 
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aQi

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You would buy the DIMM adapter on eBay if it's fun but expensive. They were on ROG Maximus IX Apex boards in Feb 2017 and that era. But it isn't a necessary adapter for 2021 motherboards and the SSD prices fell from Feb 2017.
Oh that. Actually thats on all Apex boards and on threadrippers as well as some rampage vi. Its rog dimm 2 slot dedicated only for the nvme m2 adapter and not natively suuported on any other ram slot.
 

E4g1e

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That puts me in a bad position now I was all way up to close the deal with my friend for either his maximus vii her or vii formula.
Is that really a Maximus VII? If so, it is much, much older, dating back to the Socket 1150 Haswell Refresh (4th Gen) days of 2014. Therefore, it would not be compatible at all with any newer Intel CPU. The Maximus VII motherboards are Z97-based, not Z490 or Z590.

Or did you mean the Maximus XII?
 
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aQi

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Is that really a Maximus VII? If so, it is much, much older, dating back to the Socket 1150 Haswell Refresh (4th Gen) days of 2014. Therefore, it would not be compatible at all with any newer Intel CPU. The Maximus VII motherboards are Z97-based, not Z490 or Z590.

Or did you mean the Maximus XII?
Lol coming from all the messages in the thread you presumed it right. Its MAXIMUS XII HERO with Z490 chipset compatible with 10th and 11th gen processors.
 
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Actually, on Z490 all of the m.2 slots are run off of the chipset, and that the 4-lane connection between the CPU and the Z490 chipset runs at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. Thus, any PCI-e 4.0 m.2 SSDs will have to run at only PCI-e 3.0 bandwidth. What's worse, no Z490 motherboard can accommodate the extra four lanes from the 11th-Gen CPUs' connection, so only the GPU gets the extra bandwidth. Everything else goes through the bandwidth-limited chipset.

This is not accurate. Not all Z490's. Please see the following MSI guidance.

1653575435073.png
1653575508704.png
1653575534187.png
1653575569215.png

Edited: To add and clarify that I DID have to physically go into the BIOS to toggle the M.2_1 from PCH to CPU so the following statement from the MSI guidance is not entirely accurate.

1653578844554.png
 
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aQi

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This is not accurate. Not all Z490's. Please see the following MSI guidance.

View attachment 477088
View attachment 477090
View attachment 477091
View attachment 477092

Edited: To add and clarify that I DID have to physically go into the BIOS to toggle the M.2_1 from PCH to CPU so the following statement from the MSI guidance is not entirely accurate.

View attachment 477106
God heavens this is what I have been trying to say from the very start that back in the times when 2nd gen boards got bios updated and started supporting PCI gen 3 speeds on x16 slot then why not now ? Even Amd has the same senerio with certain boards.
I do have a Maximus XII Hero Z490 but I am looking for a budget 11th gen cpu just to clearify things. Its a good thing MSI distinguished the extincts of 11th gen cpus over Z490 chipset.
 

aQi

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ASUS MAXIMUS XII HERO shows support for PCI express 4.0 with i7 11700. However nothing under bios when selecting pci express configuration. Show pci gen 2 and 3. I did not have any pci gen4 gfx or ssd to check further though wanted to post this screenshot.
20220621_213556.jpg
 
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