YT: Jim Keller: Moore’s Law is Not Dead

thesmokingman

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Lmao, he has a dept with a thousand people at Intel. Wow, that's like ten times the ppl behind Zen.

Hehe, it gets hilarious around 9min...

Just finished watching the whole thing. It was long but simplified enough for this layman to follow along.
 
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westrock2000

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He's legit silicon valley. Uses the word "right" about every 20 seconds. A positive identifier of the milieu.

Good video though. The history of the semiconductor is the private industry version of the Atomic bomb story. Changed the world. And now people are more afraid of technology than they are of atomic bombs.
 

Snowdog

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He's legit silicon valley. Uses the word "right" about every 20 seconds. A positive identifier of the milieu.

Good video though. The history of the semiconductor is the private industry version of the Atomic bomb story. Changed the world. And now people are more afraid of technology than they are of atomic bombs.

He's Legit. Period.

Keller is like some kind of architecture savant. Everywhere he went awesome products came out. DEC (Alpha), AMD (K7), Apple (A4, A5), AMD again (Zen), Tesla (AI chip), and probably some cool stuff that doesn't make the radar.

I wonder how long Intel can keep him interested? Also can't wait until something he has had major intput into hits the market, but that is likely years away.
 
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OutOfPhase

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He's Legit. Period.

Keller is like some kind of architecture savant. Everywhere he went awesome products came out. DEC (Alpha), AMD (K7), Apple (A4, A5), AMD again (Zen), Tesla (AI chip), and probably some cool stuff that doesn't make the radar.

I wonder how long Intel can keep him interested? Also can't wait until something he has had major intput into hits the market, but that is likely years away.

That's the real question. He does not need money at this point, and is in it for the mental exploration. At Intel, assuming they aren't morons, he can move around to many related groups and find fertile ground for some of this ideas but stay in the company.

But that depends upon them understanding they need him more than he needs them.

*outcome unclear*
 

alxlwson

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That's the real question. He does not need money at this point, and is in it for the mental exploration. At Intel, assuming they aren't morons, he can move around to many related groups and find fertile ground for some of this ideas but stay in the company.

But that depends upon them understanding they need him more than he needs them.

*outcome unclear*

Well, it seems his modus operandi is to simply get a product taped out, and then he moves on.
 

ole-m

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That's the real question. He does not need money at this point, and is in it for the mental exploration. At Intel, assuming they aren't morons, he can move around to many related groups and find fertile ground for some of this ideas but stay in the company.

But that depends upon them understanding they need him more than he needs them.

*outcome unclear*

at amd he couldn't do more interesting stuff.
he's designed some risc based cpu's there too which have not seen the light so amd could just BAM Arm chip out.

So he probably left cause he couldn't picture what was required a decade ahead in time and don't blame him, but Zen is definitely not solely done by him but it wouldn't be nearly as great without him either!
 

sirmonkey1985

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just from watching him talk it feels more like his sole purpose for doing what he does is to prove people and the industry that the limits they think exist don't exist but to do that he needs the people and money to push the technology, AMD was never going to be the company that could provide that.. intel has the people and money but the question is how long will it take before the shareholders get sick of shoveling the cash to make that happen or he gets sick of limitations being put on what he's allowed to do. there's to much of this "what can do you do for us now" not "what can you do for us now and for the next 10-20 years" mentality in most public traded industries. i just have this sneaking feeling that once intel gets ahead of AMD again they'll just ditch Keller because "well we have the best processors now, we don't need you anymore".

it was funny though watching some of the parts when he'd remember he's talking to a bunch of 20 year olds that have no clue what he's talking about when he'd bring up things that were happening in the industry from the 50's-90's. interesting watch though and even for my dumb brain i was able to understand most of what he was talking about.
 

Mega6

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just from watching him talk it feels more like his sole purpose for doing what he does is to prove people and the industry that the limits they think exist don't exist but to do that he needs the people and money to push the technology, AMD was never going to be the company that could provide that.. intel has the people and money but the question is how long will it take before the shareholders get sick of shoveling the cash to make that happen or he gets sick of limitations being put on what he's allowed to do. there's to much of this "what can do you do for us now" not "what can you do for us now and for the next 10-20 years" mentality in most public traded industries. i just have this sneaking feeling that once intel gets ahead of AMD again they'll just ditch Keller because "well we have the best processors now, we don't need you anymore".

it was funny though watching some of the parts when he'd remember he's talking to a bunch of 20 year olds that have no clue what he's talking about when he'd bring up things that were happening in the industry from the 50's-90's. interesting watch though and even for my dumb brain i was able to understand most of what he was talking about.

for the past 10 years or so, no one ditches Keller. He is a gun for hire. One chip design and gone. On his terms. Not on Amd, Apple, Tesla or anyone else. So not sure where you are getting the idea intel is going to ditch Keller- because Keller will always be the one to walk away first.
 

Derfnofred

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Best part of the talk is the optimism and the fact that he tries hard to prime the imagination of these engineers without BS'ing them. I know myself that I get bogged down in the "that's too hard" mentality and try for marginal gains that appear more tractable, and Jim's mentality is just the right thing needed to get so much more out of the talent he's leading.
 

German Muscle

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i just have this sneaking feeling that once intel gets ahead of AMD again they'll just ditch Keller because "well we have the best processors now, we don't need you anymore".
Considering they picked him up while they still were the best peforming processors this doesnt make sense. Keller is a problem solver and its what he does best. Intel has alot of departments/teams with problems in many different areas. He is interested in fixing as many problems as he can and because the company has the funding and people to get stuff done it should be interesting. But if you think hes there to beat AMD on the mainstream CPU front then hes walking you are pretty far from the truth. Thats not even of interest to him. Hes a Jack of all trades, Master of all and since Intel has a very long list of issues/problems i dont think he will run out of things to do anytime soon.
 

SmokeRngs

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Considering they picked him up while they still were the best peforming processors this doesnt make sense. Keller is a problem solver and its what he does best. Intel has alot of departments/teams with problems in many different areas. He is interested in fixing as many problems as he can and because the company has the funding and people to get stuff done it should be interesting. But if you think hes there to beat AMD on the mainstream CPU front then hes walking you are pretty far from the truth. Thats not even of interest to him. Hes a Jack of all trades, Master of all and since Intel has a very long list of issues/problems i dont think he will run out of things to do anytime soon.

You assume he actually wants to hang around, though. I have to wonder if the Intel mentality will actually allow him to do the work he wants to do and needs to do. I would be surprised if places like AMD don't let him do basically whatever he wants simply because they know something good is going to come of it. I would be very surprised if Intel would allow him the same type of freedom. If Intel doesn't allow him the means to work the way he does best he may not stay around very long. Geniuses and savants of Keller's ability rarely ever fit into rigid corporate structures and if special circumstances are given them, what they produce tend to be far from optimal assuming they stay around long enough in the first place.
 

German Muscle

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You assume he actually wants to hang around, though. I have to wonder if the Intel mentality will actually allow him to do the work he wants to do and needs to do. I would be surprised if places like AMD don't let him do basically whatever he wants simply because they know something good is going to come of it. I would be very surprised if Intel would allow him the same type of freedom. If Intel doesn't allow him the means to work the way he does best he may not stay around very long. Geniuses and savants of Keller's ability rarely ever fit into rigid corporate structures and if special circumstances are given them, what they produce tend to be far from optimal assuming they stay around long enough in the first place.
If he didnt want to be there or wasnt interested then he wouldnt be there.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13048/an-anandtech-exclusive-the-jim-keller-interview

You can see there from his responses what his intentions are with Intel.
 

thesmokingman

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Considering they picked him up while they still were the best peforming processors this doesnt make sense. Keller is a problem solver and its what he does best. Intel has alot of departments/teams with problems in many different areas. He is interested in fixing as many problems as he can and because the company has the funding and people to get stuff done it should be interesting. But if you think hes there to beat AMD on the mainstream CPU front then hes walking you are pretty far from the truth. Thats not even of interest to him. Hes a Jack of all trades, Master of all and since Intel has a very long list of issues/problems i dont think he will run out of things to do anytime soon.

That's false. They do not have or had the best performing chips at the time, ultimately. They are getting hammered every which way and their process is abysmal. If you don't think they are in a serious pinch... gawd help you. AMD have Zen 3 completed and are in design on Zen 4. And they will probably/rumored to implement 4 way SMT. Intel might has well pack it in if they are so great at that time, lmao.
 
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German Muscle

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That's false. They do not have or had the best performing chips at the time, ultimately. They are getting hammered every which way and their process is abysmal. If you don't think they are in a serious pinch... gawd help you. AMD have Zen 3 completed and are in design on Zen 4. And they will probably/rumored to implement 4 way SMT. Intel might has well pack it in if they are so great at that time, lmao.
except at the time it was when Ryzen 2 was out. Intel still held the IPC crown. So no its not false. Regardless my point was Keller is not there to beat AMD.
 

thesmokingman

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except at the time it was when Ryzen 2 was out. Intel still held the IPC crown. So no its not false.

You think they could not hear the fat lady? You mean like Intel didn't forecast they would lose massive share? Oh and IPC crown means jack in the whole scope of things.
 

OutOfPhase

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Best part of the talk is the optimism and the fact that he tries hard to prime the imagination of these engineers without BS'ing them. I know myself that I get bogged down in the "that's too hard" mentality and try for marginal gains that appear more tractable, and Jim's mentality is just the right thing needed to get so much more out of the talent he's leading.

This is really a big deal. As Lisa Su indicated a few times, Zen wasn't just Keller and a whiteboard. It really was/is a full team of very talented people. Same with all of the things people associate with him.

He's very good at getting the best of everyone he works with, and as you indicate, getting people to shoot for the proverbial 3 pointer. He's very talented in his own right, but he's clearly an amazing catalyst for every team he's worked with. A force multiplier.

You put someone like that in a team you'd rank "B+" and suddenly it seems like you have a team of "straight A"s. Energy, enthusiasm, some sparks of insight, and the relentless attitude of "we WILL do this" is huge.
 
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