Your Windows 8 Views

flectron

n00b
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What do you all think of windows 8 so far on the Beta stage. I think it's gonna be a great operating system
 
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I don't like the Metro UI. I do not understand why Microsoft had to do this. It would be awesome for tablet PCs, but I don't like it on my desktop. Sure I could get used to it, but unless the upgrade from Windows 7 is super cheep, I don't think I'll be upgrading any time soon.

There's nothing wrong with Windows 7. If it's not broke; don't fix it...
 

Sly

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There's nothing wrong with Windows 7. If it's not broke; don't fix it...

Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.

It was pretty easy and fast to access all your program related links in WinXP.

60467089.jpg


And then Win7 had all that compacted into a single list that you have to scroll back and forth in.

img0k.jpg


It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.

Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.
 
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Unless Metro UI is made optional or a 3rd party (because M$ doesn't seem to care) puts out a shell/program to remove it I wouldn't install Win8 if it was given to me free
 

Gorankar

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It is going to be a good OS. One that will be receive a, undeserved as it may be, worse rap than Vista did. Due primarily to the removal of the start menu, and the annoyance of Metro.

I keep hearing all sorts of magical pixie dust talk about future Metro apps. Only an idiot would code a AAA app that required Metro without a fallback for Win7. UNLESS, they were aiming that app at tablets and smartphones. Meh, whatever, MS will have to show me. Not going to believe otherwise till then.
 

Ur_Mom

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A simple solution would be for Microsoft to make Metro UI an option, not a feature.

Default on touchscreens, but optional on non-touchscreens. That would be good for me. I like Metro, but it is less efficient than the standard Explorer on the desktop. Other than that, Windows 8 is a great OS, and I'll be upgrading from Windows 7.

Vista was a stepping stone to 7. Vista wasn't bad, it wasn't great either. 8 is looking to be another stepping stone. But, I'm not sure how consumers are going to react to the release, as it is very different than previous versions. Too much, too fast.
 
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Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.

It was pretty easy and fast to access all your program related links in WinXP.

And then Win7 had all that compacted into a single list that you have to scroll back and forth in.

It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.

Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.

I don't know about everyone else, my start menu in Windows 7 is organized just fine. I don't even use the search feature that often.
 

Biznatch

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Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.

It was pretty easy and fast to access all your program related links in WinXP.

60467089.jpg


And then Win7 had all that compacted into a single list that you have to scroll back and forth in.

img0k.jpg


It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.

Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.

Seriously? Yes because browsing through a bunch of menus is so much easier than typing the first 3 letters of the item you want and hitting enter.... The win7 start menu kicks the shit out of XP, and I hate any time I have to work on an xp machine. I NEVER browse throught the menus anymore, it's just a waste of time. Windows Key -> Start Typing -> Enter -> program opens. Can't get easier than that.

Metro just changes the look of the start menu even more. Now it utilizes your whole desktop, and make the icons bigger. I don't see why you all have sand in your vaginas over that. It's not like you used the desktop when browsing the start menu anyway, so it was just wasted screen real estate.



I haven't used the desktop version of 8 much, only tested the developer preview breifly. I am using server 8 on my VM host now though, and like it a lot. I will definately be pushing to upgrade our servers at work once it comes out.

The only thing that annoys the crap out of me, is there is no start button. I don't mind the new menu, but not having the button is a pain in the ass. I do my remote admin work over RDP with my ipad a lot, and trying to move the mouse to the bottom right corner to kick off the start menu is annoying as shit. They already have the little rectangle takig up space, might as well make it a button. Same thing for the panel on the right, activating them without a mouse (Or on a second screen of a dual monitor system using RDP) is slow and painful. Other than that, i don't have many complaints so far.
 

flip504

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I downloaded and installed it. It took me a min to find the start button so I called it PoS and deleted it.
 

SuperSubZero

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Windows 7 start menu is step backwards from WinXP in terms of accessability.
...

It was so bad they had to put in a search function just so you don't have to use the menu.

Atleast Win8's start menu/screen lets you organize it.

If one is wading through the menus frequently they are not using the Start menu as MS intended. If it's more than two clicks away and one uses it more than once a week it should be pinned to the Start menu or taskbar to begin with.

I think de-cascading the menus was MS's subtle hint to utilize the "Pin to" options as opposed to a screen full of application names every time one wanted to open something.
 

Sly

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If one is wading through the menus frequently they are not using the Start menu as MS intended. If it's more than two clicks away and one uses it more than once a week it should be pinned to the Start menu or taskbar to begin with.

I think de-cascading the menus was MS's subtle hint to utilize the "Pin to" options as opposed to a screen full of application names every time one wanted to open something.

As someone that actually uses his pc for work, i use a lot of applications and utilities. I currently have 13 applications pinned to my taskbar. Would probably be more if i had the space.

I love the new taskbar, especially how you can easily pin/unpin applications as needed, and consider it a great improvement productivity wise, but it doesn't change the fact that the Win7 start menu is harder to navigate than the WinXP one. A Task Bar is not a Start Menu.

Point is, Win8's Start Menu/Metro is less cluttered and easier to organize than Win7's while maintaining the same functionalities. I can throw the taskbar comment back at you and say that if you don't like navigating Metro, then you shouldn't have any problem simply pinning them to the task bar. As you guys keep pointing out, you guys don't use the Start Menu anyway, so what's the problem?


EDIT: Forgot to add. No matter how you organize your start menu in Win7, you are rarely 2 clicks away from your application. Because of the list nature of the Win7 start menu, you spend most of your time scrolling through the list items and expanding folders and then reading each item before clicking. Any time you expand a folder, the position of the items shifts and you end up scrolling through it again. In WinXP, there's no scrolling involved, you click the start menu once, move the mouse to a point on the screen you've already memorized and the sub menus will open along the way.
 
Last edited:

Biznatch

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As someone that actually uses his pc for work, i use a lot of applications and utilities. I currently have 13 applications pinned to my taskbar. Would probably be more if i had the space.

I love the new taskbar, especially how you can easily pin/unpin applications as needed, and consider it a great improvement productivity wise, but it doesn't change the fact that the Win7 start menu is harder to navigate than the WinXP one. A Task Bar is not a Start Menu.

Point is, Win8's Start Menu/Metro is less cluttered and easier to organize than Win7's while maintaining the same functionalities. I can throw the taskbar comment back at you and say that if you don't like navigating Metro, then you shouldn't have any problem simply pinning them to the task bar. As you guys keep pointing out, you guys don't use the Start Menu anyway, so what's the problem?


EDIT: Forgot to add. No matter how you organize your start menu in Win7, you are rarely 2 clicks away from your application. Because of the list nature of the Win7 start menu, you spend most of your time scrolling through the list items and expanding folders and then reading each item before clicking. Any time you expand a folder, the position of the items shifts and you end up scrolling through it again. In WinXP, there's no scrolling involved, you click the start menu once, move the mouse to a point on the screen you've already memorized and the sub menus will open along the way.



Your argument still holds no water. If you are browsing through the menus, you are wasting time when you can just use the search. I don't browse the menus, period. It takes too long. So if you want to be less efficient with the menu structure of XP, then go for it. Microsoft added tools to make it easier in windows 7, you just aren't using them and crying that you can't do it the same old way you have memorized.
 

Eman D. Rahym

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Reading these threads you'd think that Windows 8 is ONLY Metro or that it is identical to Windows 7 except for the changes to the Start Button and the Start Menu. The discussion never gets around to the other new features in Windows 8, such as Storage Spaces, or File Recovery or Smart Screen or the changes to Windows Explorer.

Does anyone have anything to say about Windows 8 that's not about Metro or the Start Button?
 
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Reading these threads you'd think that Windows 8 is ONLY Metro or that it is identical to Windows 7 except for the changes to the Start Button and the Start Menu. The discussion never gets around to the other new features in Windows 8, such as Storage Spaces, or File Recovery or Smart Screen or the changes to Windows Explorer.

Does anyone have anything to say about Windows 8 that's not about Metro or the Start Button?

Here is a post I made on another forum that sums up my feelings.


I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.

It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.

Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.

What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad.
 

McTurkey

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Something a lot of folks don't seem to understand is that Metro is not the actual Windows UI. It's the replacement for the Start menu. It works the same way, just full-screen instead of being a smaller pop-up menu. If you're still hunting around and clicking on menu items, you're probably going to be annoyed with it until you get familiar with where things are. On the other hand, if you're hitting [Windows key] and typing what you want, then pressing enter, it will be the same experience as what you've had on Windows 7 all along. There was way too much focus on Metro by the developers and they've managed to alienate a lot of folks before they even try it. The other improvements in technology and interface throughout the OS are incremental, and provide a better overall experience that any user of Windows 7 will immediately be comfortable with. You can easily spend your entire time using the standard desktop, only ever seeing the Metro screen when you open the "Start" menu.
 

E^vol

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I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.

It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.

Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.

What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad.

Very well said !!!! I agree completely.
 

Gorankar

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I like the improvements that Win8 is making behind the scenes and I would love to have them. I refuse to use Metro UI.

It's like taking a nice big juicy steak. That steak is all the memory, code and etc improvements in Win8 that everyone (including me) wants and are getting giddy over.

Now imagine taking that big juicy steak and smearing it with dog shit. That dog shit is Metro UI.

What M$ is telling me is that if I want the big juicy steak I have to eat though the dog shit. I don't want the steak that bad. .

I can certainly agree with this. I think Metro is a great idea, for touch screen devices. Metro, and the removal of the traditional start menu, are not good ideas on regular, non touch, PC's, imho.

I still have some hope that MS will give the start menu back, but I have little hope that they will not make people click through Metro to get to the desktop.
 

Damar

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Reading these threads you'd think that Windows 8 is ONLY Metro or that it is identical to Windows 7 except for the changes to the Start Button and the Start Menu. The discussion never gets around to the other new features in Windows 8, such as Storage Spaces, or File Recovery or Smart Screen or the changes to Windows Explorer.

Does anyone have anything to say about Windows 8 that's not about Metro or the Start Button?

The problem is, to enjoy those features you have to deal with the shit pile that is Metro.

Metro has no business on a desktop PC with a mouse and keyboard imho.

Tablet? Sure. Phone? Sure. Desktop PC? Fuck no.
 

Sly

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Your argument still holds no water. If you are browsing through the menus, you are wasting time when you can just use the search. I don't browse the menus, period. It takes too long. So if you want to be less efficient with the menu structure of XP, then go for it. Microsoft added tools to make it easier in windows 7, you just aren't using them and crying that you can't do it the same old way you have memorized.

Press start button, click on the application icon right on your screen. Your left hand is still on the keyboard, your right hand never leaves the mouse.

How to use the Start 'Menu' on Windows 8

#1 Press window button
#2 Click on the icon right in front of you, who's layout you organized yourself.

On Win7, to use the search function, you have to let go of the mouse and align your hands before typing. If you keep your hands on the mouse, you waste even more time scrolling through the list. That's where the Win7 start menu failed and why we didn't like it when we moved from the classic start menu.

Basic practice when using any GUI is to avoid constantly alternating between the mouse and keyboard. If your hand is on the mouse, it stays on the mouse. If it's on the keyboard, it stays on the keyboard. This has been our practice at work for a very long time. That's why we know both keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. If we need to do something while we're on the keyboard, we use the keyboard to do it. If we're using the KB/M combo, we use the mouse gestures.

If i'm in the middle of coding, i actually alternate between documents, turn pages, switch monitors, etc. from the keyboard instead of reaching for the mouse. Likewise, when i'm the mouse, i keep one hand on the mouse, and the other on the keyboard to handle the shortcuts and the hand never leaves the mouse. It's basic practice when you're navigating around any GUI.

Efficiency? Dude, part of our training when i was starting out was to constantly find way to shave off steps and speed up anything we do on the desk. That means not only learning the shortcuts and gestures of the application, but how our hands move on the physical desktop as well.
 

Sly

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The problem is, to enjoy those features you have to deal with the shit pile that is Metro.

Metro has no business on a desktop PC with a mouse and keyboard imho.

Tablet? Sure. Phone? Sure. Desktop PC? Fuck no.

Is there any drawback on Metro aside from Aesthetics?
 

Gorankar

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Clicking through it to get to the desktop and a third party start menu.
 

Biznatch

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Press start button, click on the application icon right on your screen. Your left hand is still on the keyboard, your right hand never leaves the mouse.

How to use the Start 'Menu' on Windows 8

#1 Press window button
#2 Click on the icon right in front of you, who's layout you organized yourself.

On Win7, to use the search function, you have to let go of the mouse and align your hands before typing. If you keep your hands on the mouse, you waste even more time scrolling through the list. That's where the Win7 start menu failed and why we didn't like it when we moved from the classic start menu.

Basic practice when using any GUI is to avoid constantly alternating between the mouse and keyboard. If your hand is on the mouse, it stays on the mouse. If it's on the keyboard, it stays on the keyboard. This has been our practice at work for a very long time. That's why we know both keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. If we need to do something while we're on the keyboard, we use the keyboard to do it. If we're using the KB/M combo, we use the mouse gestures.

If i'm in the middle of coding, i actually alternate between documents, turn pages, switch monitors, etc. from the keyboard instead of reaching for the mouse. Likewise, when i'm the mouse, i keep one hand on the mouse, and the other on the keyboard to handle the shortcuts and the hand never leaves the mouse. It's basic practice when you're navigating around any GUI.

Efficiency? Dude, part of our training when i was starting out was to constantly find way to shave off steps and speed up anything we do on the desk. That means not only learning the shortcuts and gestures of the application, but how our hands move on the physical desktop as well.



A mouse requires 1 hand, type with your left, its only a couple keys. My hand is almost always on the keyboard, so I don't have to move anything. I guess this burned into me after using autocad for years. I'm very used to quickly type with my left hand. What are you guys doing with your left hand that make it so hard to get to the keyboard?

But even without that, I garantee you I can take my hand off the mouse (well trackball, fuck using a mouse) and use both hands on the keyboard to search for the item, and still get there in half the time as it would take to browse the menus.
 

bigdogchris

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What do you all think of windows 8 so far on the Beta stage. I think it's gonna be a great operating system
Do we really need another thread about this?

Windows 8 is going to be a failure. Microsoft has set their sites on the tablet market, completely threw their desktop users under the bus, and think they are going to compete with Apple, which they cannot. Microsoft is not good at this type of thing. Windows 8 will be a failure on the level of ME and Vista (consumer perception wise).

Touch interface is going to be one of the future types of input devices. It will not completely replace a mouse/hand/pointer driven interface for a very long time, if ever.
 

magoo

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What do you all think of windows 8 so far on the Beta stage. I think it's gonna be a great operating system

Qualify your statement.......how is it going to be better than anything else?

To me it looks and feels like W7 with a different initial GUI screen.
Nothing else to talk about.
It's essentially the same.
 

Tawnos

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On Win7, to use the search function, you have to let go of the mouse and align your hands before typing. If you keep your hands on the mouse, you waste even more time scrolling through the list. That's where the Win7 start menu failed and why we didn't like it when we moved from the classic start menu.

Basic practice when using any GUI is to avoid constantly alternating between the mouse and keyboard. If your hand is on the mouse, it stays on the mouse. If it's on the keyboard, it stays on the keyboard. This has been our practice at work for a very long time. That's why we know both keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. If we need to do something while we're on the keyboard, we use the keyboard to do it. If we're using the KB/M combo, we use the mouse gestures.

If i'm in the middle of coding, i actually alternate between documents, turn pages, switch monitors, etc. from the keyboard instead of reaching for the mouse. Likewise, when i'm the mouse, i keep one hand on the mouse, and the other on the keyboard to handle the shortcuts and the hand never leaves the mouse. It's basic practice when you're navigating around any GUI.

Efficiency? Dude, part of our training when i was starting out was to constantly find way to shave off steps and speed up anything we do on the desk. That means not only learning the shortcuts and gestures of the application, but how our hands move on the physical desktop as well.

windows key
type first few letters of program name
enter

Easy peasy. If you're using a mouse, you should either pin your apps to the task bar or start menu. Don't get me started on your claim that "13" is a lot of apps.

For switching apps... alt tab? windows key + #? So many different, better ways to do this than using a mouse. Either way, your claim that the win xp menus were better is facially laughable.
 

wonderfield

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For switching apps... alt tab? windows key + #? So many different, better ways to do this than using a mouse. Either way, your claim that the win xp menus were better is facially laughable.
For browsing through installed programs, yes, the XP Classic-style menus were better. You should always use search to launch programs for the sake of simplicity and efficiency (which you can't do in XP as easily or as quickly), but when it is required that you browse through your installed programs, the absence of fly-out menus is a clear UI regression.
 

Biznatch

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Do we really need another thread about this?

Windows 8 is going to be a failure. Microsoft has set their sites on the tablet market, completely threw their desktop users under the bus, and think they are going to compete with Apple, which they cannot. Microsoft is not good at this type of thing. Windows 8 will be a failure on the level of ME and Vista (consumer perception wise).

Touch interface is going to be one of the future types of input devices. It will not completely replace a mouse/hand/pointer driven interface for a very long time, if ever.

Yea...not gonna happen. ME and Vista were just pieces of shit. 8 just has a new GUI,built on top of an updated 7 core. Plus you are basing your opinion on a beta that is at least 6 months away from release. The updates/new additions to the OS far outweigh the issues people are crying about with the GUI.
 

XOR != OR

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Yea...not gonna happen. ME and Vista were just pieces of shit. 8 just has a new GUI,built on top of an updated 7 core. Plus you are basing your opinion on a beta that is at least 6 months away from release. The updates/new additions to the OS far outweigh the issues people are crying about with the GUI.
Vista was not a piece of shit, and certainly not to the epic level of shit that ME was. Vista was half baked, no arguments, but it was a serviceable OS otherwise.

OP did say perception-wise, however. And he's absolutely right; swapping out the GUI is MS's "New Coke" moment.
 

wonderfield

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That's a good comparison, actually.

Fundamentally, Metro, both as a design methodology and as an interface, isn't wrong. It isn't bad. Microsoft's blunder here is not that they're offering both Coca-Cola Classic and New Coke and saying "hey, drink what you like!", it's that they're doing what Coca-Cola did and saying "New Coke is what we're making. If you don't like it, go pound sand." There's simply no call for that kind of strategy going forward. Microsoft wants you to buy software from their app market so they can have their cut, and for that they 'need' to force Metro upon everyone, but their greed here is going to backfire significantly, just as New Coke backfired for Coca-Cola.
 

Tawnos

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For browsing through installed programs, yes, the XP Classic-style menus were better. You should always use search to launch programs for the sake of simplicity and efficiency (which you can't do in XP as easily or as quickly), but when it is required that you browse through your installed programs, the absence of fly-out menus is a clear UI regression.

No, seriously, we studied this stuff. Nested fly-out menus are a usability nightmare.
 
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Qualify your statement.......how is it going to be better than anything else?

To me it looks and feels like W7 with a different initial GUI screen.
Nothing else to talk about.
It's essentially the same.

How was 7 any different from Vista, based on those qualifications?
 
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I can certainly agree with this. I think Metro is a great idea, for touch screen devices. Metro, and the removal of the traditional start menu, are not good ideas on regular, non touch, PC's, imho.

I still have some hope that MS will give the start menu back, but I have little hope that they will not make people click through Metro to get to the desktop.

How will they ever survive that ONE click when they turn their computer on for the first time? Oh the hugemanatee.
 

wonderfield

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From the blog post:
This ease of use comes at a cost: If you're one of those people who can guide a mouse with pixel-perfect precision, then you're going to find mouse-based menu navigation a bit slower due to the extra clicking.
It's not so much the clicking that slows you: it's the lack of space dedicated to the programs list in the Vista/7 Start menu. The menu could have been expanded vertically (and possibly also horizontally) to accommodate a greater number of entries in the program group after clicking "All Programs", but it does not expand vertically nor horizontally. Therein lies the issue: far fewer installed programs are immediately visible to the user, requiring users to scroll in nearly every instance to find the application they're looking for. Given that the program list is best used in scenarios where users can't recall the name of the application they're looking for, and thus cannot simply search for it, presenting a very limited subset of applications and requiring that users scroll is not particularly advantageous.

There are certainly times when designing for UX that 'less is more': presenting too many elements for users to interact with can confuse. When you're talking about simple alphabetically-sorted lists of items, however, the 'more is more' approach wins, and screen space should be dedicated to such things as necessary.
 
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