Wow losing ground?

diogo

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only brutallus was a gear check in sunwell. success and fialure in the other 5 fights was completely dependent on coordination and player skills in reacting and not making mistakes.

wow did not invent threat and won't be the last game to use it. this feels like complaining that fps game will not adavnce because they still use guns for a mechanic.
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The fact that they didn't invent threat is irrelevant, and your comparison to FPS games silly. Oh, and I didn't complain about anything. The fact remains that their current implementation limits fight design, and I think that the only MMO to surpass wow will be one that is innovative in its fight design.

As far as sunwell, none of the mechanics there were new or unprecedented. So much so that the reduction in hp at the end of tBC made the place go from very hard to extremely easy without changing any of the mechanics of the fight.
 

myndcrime

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most people who play wow dont really care about what goes on in top tier raiding. they just want more mounts, more pets, more achievement, etc...
 

diogo

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most people who play wow dont really care about what goes on in top tier raiding. they just want more mounts, more pets, more achievement, etc...

which is why my point is relevant for mob AI from levels 1-80. And why I stand by my prediction that WOW will only be surpassed by a game that has innovative PVE.
 

myndcrime

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honestly i dont think any MMO will overthrow WoW. Only another Blizzard MMO could do that. They've got the MMO market by the balls.
 

diogo

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honestly i dont think any MMO will overthrow WoW. Only another Blizzard MMO could do that. They've got the MMO market by the balls.

right now I don't think any mmo will overthrow wow either, but that is because WoW's pve is still the best implementation, from 1-80. That doesn't mean it can't be improved upon, significantly.

My point is that several MMOs have tried to take WoW's place by emphasizing PVP, and I don't think that will ever succeed, because an MMO to be succesful has to entertain players during low pop times, server imbalances, etc. with good solo or small group play, and that is where solid PVE comes in.
 

Technoob

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So the cat is out of the bag and the 3rd expansion has been announced. Big changes across the boards and it looks like another good amount of content for us wow players. Despite all of this, something feels missing. Something that I remembered from the last few expansions. I think its the level of excitement from the general public.

Remember when they announced BC? It was HUGE! Remember WOTLK? I even saw the announcement on my local news station talking about it. It was diggs number one article for the day.. people were excited to say the least.

Fast forward to yesterday. The expansion was announced and..... not much happened. I even called my good buddy who I play with (who has been playing since beta) and told him about it. His replies weren't as exciting as I thought they would be. If anybody would be excited I thought it would be him, but instead I got a very "meh" response.

Has anybody else noticed this?

***Please don't post your "wow ruined my life so I quit" story. If you want to do that, dig up one of the 100s of threads here or make a new one. I don't want this thread to turn into one of those.***

losing ground to what? saying that implies that something is taking away market share. What you really seem to ask is "is my limited circle of friends less excited this time around about a wow expansion announcement"?
 

Zorachus

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right now I don't think any mmo will overthrow wow either, but that is because WoW's pve is still the best implementation, from 1-80. That doesn't mean it can't be improved upon, significantly.

My point is that several MMOs have tried to take WoW's place by emphasizing PVP, and I don't think that will ever succeed, because an MMO to be succesful has to entertain players during low pop times, server imbalances, etc. with good solo or small group play, and that is where solid PVE comes in.


I agree, and that is where WarHammer Online totally screwed up. Sure WAR was based on PvP 90%, and they had a ton of PvE in there too but the PvE quests and story were freaking lame and broken almost.

WAR should never have had Realm vs Realm lakes to fight inside, I thought it was about war, the whole zone should be a big RvR with no boundaries, but also include the cool Public Quest system they created inside there too, and make the enemy AI smarter and the game would have been golden.

But for now I see WoW staying top dog for a very long time. With 11million + players and the #2 MMO not even close with less than a 1 million players, I don't see anyone overtaking WoW. I doubt even Blizzards next gen MMO will outdo WoW's 11 million players in 2008. That is like a sports record I doubt will be broken, or will be someday but not for many years
 

Blackstone

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There would have to be a considerable graphics improvement for me to buy a 3rd expansion. Can you say dated? Why do I feel like the magic is missing from this one?
 

Zorachus

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There would have to be a considerable graphics improvement for me to buy a 3rd expansion. Can you say dated? Why do I feel like the magic is missing from this one?

I agree, I thought if they are redoing the entire old world what perfect time to completely overhaul the game engine and at least give it full DirectX9 stuff. The game is really starting to look dated in Northrend to me lately. The mountains and environment look old school in a bad way.

And don't talk about that BS they want the game to run smooth on everyone's low end system blah, blah, blah :rolleyes: When WoW first came out in 2004 it was pretty taxing on most computers back then, no way I could play it on my 30" at the time, it was even chugging on my 24", and I had a top of the line system then. Fast forward 5 years, I think hardware is more than 4 x times faster as it was when the game launched. So the $600 cards back in 2004, would be a $50 budget card today, with equal performance. Time to upgrade this old beast of a game engine
 

Zorachus

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yea the graphics are getting pretty old. all the new MMO's look a lot better than WoW.


That Guild Wars 2 trailer makes WoW look like a game from the 90's. Actually WoW always reminded me of a Quake2 engine game, like HalfLife 1, and other games using that Q2 engine. The water and terrain looks very close to HL1
 

myndcrime

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yea, it does actually, lol. they've upgraded certain effects over the years, and made higher res textures on stuff like armor, but it's not really enough...
 

Ocellaris

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As far as sunwell, none of the mechanics there were new or unprecedented. So much so that the reduction in hp at the end of tBC made the place go from very hard to extremely easy without changing any of the mechanics of the fight.

it was not just a hp reduction, characters also got much more powerful talents and boss damage was nerfed a ton. a lot of guilds still had trouble with 3.0 sunwell, it was not a cake walk for guilds unless they had players with previous sunwell experience. pre 3.0 fights like felmsyt took some guilds months to learn, and it was from the fight mechanics, not the gea requirement.
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AltTabbins

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losing ground to what? saying that implies that something is taking away market share. What you really seem to ask is "is my limited circle of friends less excited this time around about a wow expansion announcement"?

I even saw the announcement on my local news station talking about it. It was diggs number one article for the day..

Me and the newscasters here at Fox13 and KSL are good friends... same with the millions of people on digg. :rolleyes:
 

Technoob

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Me and the newscasters here at Fox13 and KSL are good friends... same with the millions of people on digg. :rolleyes:

Gee, it's almost as if you said this:

"not much happened. I even called my good buddy who I play with (who has been playing since beta) and told him about it. His replies weren't as exciting as I thought they would be. If anybody would be excited I thought it would be him, but instead I got a very "meh" response."
 

Prim3

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Not reading everything will put my thought in.

I re-activated a month ago to talk with friends play around a bit. After the leak of info about the upcoming expack, I had some friends who said they would never play again re-active and started playing and can't wait. Honestly everything I have read so far I am liking and honestly am excited it to play.
 
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Keep in mind that gameplay mechanics alone do not make an MMO. Or any game for that matter. There are very few exceptions out there that can accomplish this persistently. There are a tons of things that go on in WoW that can make a player feel attached to their toons, like the goofy shenanigans that go on through some of the quests and just the overall lightheartedness of the atmosphere. Most [H]ard players here probably won't feel that way, and other players that use questhelper to fucking GPS their way to 80 probably won't either. However, the vast majority (aka casual players) move at a slower pace and actually get to soak in all that is there.
 
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222 1/3 evil

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Having played since the beta off and on, I have quit two-three times and usually come back just to have fun. I've done the hardcore raiding thing, now I'm doing the casual thing and I enjoy it more then I did as a hardcore raider. I'm anxious to see how cataclysm susses out.
 

Mavvy911

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I have to say, was kinda excited when they announced Cataclysm, but sad that it won't be around until sometime next year. The current content just isn't that interesting or useful. Also, the guy who invented the 'jousting' needs to die a painful death
 
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The jousting gameplay is rather easy and painless. The drake mechanic for Occulus however just sucks! I've had to force myself to do H Occulus whenever it's the daily.
 

Shlomo

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So.... Alliance get the worgen and the fucking horde gets goblins?

GOBLINS?

Lol.... shafted. The Horde definitely got the shit additions between the BE's and gobbos
 

zoobaby

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Where do you go drinking?

Even at state college I can drink for <$80 a night. While getting totally smashed.

A good bottle of wine out for dinner will set you back that much. ;)

Oh wait your in college...that $180 would buy you, what 5 kegs of Keystone Light? So you got 5 nights out of the $180? Well others are getting a years worth of entertainment. Or if you head out to clubs, that $180 would last 6 nights? (say $30 a night on cheap college booze?)

$180 per year?

That's some SERIOUS CASH.

Become an adult and join the real world. $180/year is only a lot if you are college age and younger or you are working minimum wage. And even then, I doubt you'd notice missing ~$0.50 a day. Hell that's less than a cup of plain ol' Joe.


I used to think the pay per month was lame, but it is not. During my stint playing WoW I didn't buy 3 to 5 new games a year, that is $150 to $250 a year I didn't spend. I didn't need to (though I did out of habit) upgrade my system every three to six months to play those games that I didn't purchase.

I re-activated a month ago to talk with friends play around a bit. After the leak of info about the upcoming expack, I had some friends who said they would never play again re-active and started playing and can't wait. Honestly everything I have read so far I am liking and honestly am excited it to play.

I am re-activating later this week, mainly to get back in touch with some old co-workers and friends. I am surprisingly excited to play again, though I will be casual to the max, not sure I would want to be a raider again, plus a raiders schedule would not go over well with the gf. I will likely level all my alts (level 65+) up to max level.
 

Zorachus

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I have to say, was kinda excited when they announced Cataclysm, but sad that it won't be around until sometime next year. The current content just isn't that interesting or useful. Also, the guy who invented the 'jousting' needs to die a painful death


What ever happened to the annual expansion releases ? I remember before TBC came out, there was an interview with a top WoW dude, and he said they would like to get to a point where there is a brand new expansion approx every 12 months. Well the last two took exactly 22 months to release, in my opinion that is extremely too long, it should be at the longest 18 months, to keep the players interest.

Right now WoTLK is not even 12 months old, and everyone on my server has several Level 80's and tons are Epic geared. Even myself a very casual player lately already has my main at 80, and soon will hit every raid and instance with my Guild, by the time WoTLK is one year old.

My point is, waiting until next Fall 2010 for the 3rd expansion will be a bad move for Blizzard, I think you will see a lot of players leave the game from shear boredom and nothing to new to see. And then if there is a good quality new MMO out there, the player base might move towards that. That's why I think it is huge that the Bioware StarWars game gets released before Cataclysm to soak up as many bored WoW players from the start.
 

zoobaby

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What ever happened to the annual expansion releases ? I remember before TBC came out, there was an interview with a top WoW dude, and he said they would like to get to a point where there is a brand new expansion approx every 12 months. Well the last two took exactly 22 months to release, in my opinion that is extremely too long, it should be at the longest 18 months, to keep the players interest.

Right now WoTLK is not even 12 months old, and everyone on my server has several Level 80's and tons are Epic geared. Even myself a very casual player lately already has my main at 80, and soon will hit every raid and instance with my Guild, by the time WoTLK is one year old.

My point is, waiting until next Fall 2010 for the 3rd expansion will be a bad move for Blizzard, I think you will see a lot of players leave the game from shear boredom and nothing to new to see. And then if there is a good quality new MMO out there, the player base might move towards that. That's why I think it is huge that the Bioware StarWars game gets released before Cataclysm to soak up as many bored WoW players from the start.

Blizzard has released a lot of content between expansions. The MH+BT content release in BC would have been expansion worthy. The Sunwell stuff would have been expansion worthy. In WotLK, I quit before any big content releases, but likely 3.1, and 3.2 were each content heavy. And 3.3 will be content heavy. Blizzard has, for the most part, created a lot of content that filled in each expansion release. Though some content was spread too far out and people got very bored.
 

Zorachus

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Blizzard has released a lot of content between expansions. The MH+BT content release in BC would have been expansion worthy. The Sunwell stuff would have been expansion worthy. In WotLK, I quit before any big content releases, but likely 3.1, and 3.2 were each content heavy. And 3.3 will be content heavy. Blizzard has, for the most part, created a lot of content that filled in each expansion release. Though some content was spread too far out and people got very bored.


Good point, I know the Sunwell was a pretty big deal for a patch for Epic Level 70's that was the big "inbetween" patch ? Released after TBC and before WoTLK ? But now Sunwell is a ghost town no reason to run it anymore ?

I have not done any raids or Heroic dungeons, so not sure what end game WoTLK holds, I just ding 80 this week.
 

Elledan

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I follow WoW events via a good friend who has been playing WoW since last year. So far he and the others he plays with seemed more excited about Ulduar and the 3.2 patch than about Cataclysm, so I'd agree that there isn't much excitement about this new expansion. The aforementioned friend may even skip on it for a few months as he intends to spend some time on other hobbies soon.

I also agree on the outdated graphics bit. It still looks okay in some areas, but some updates to models, textures and especially lighting/shadows would be most welcome to modernize its looks.
 

zoobaby

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Good point, I know the Sunwell was a pretty big deal for a patch for Epic Level 70's that was the big "inbetween" patch ? Released after TBC and before WoTLK ? But now Sunwell is a ghost town no reason to run it anymore ?

I have not done any raids or Heroic dungeons, so not sure what end game WoTLK holds, I just ding 80 this week.

You are right, though all raid content sub-80 is no longer ran. Or if it is, it is done for some achievement or for nostalgia's sake.

I think re-hashing some of the level 60 raid content would be fun. Though I am not sure I want to ever run MC or BWL again. I could do AQ again though. While everyone hated that place, I had a strange liking for it.
 

AltTabbins

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You are right, though all raid content sub-80 is no longer ran. Or if it is, it is done for some achievement or for nostalgia's sake.

I think re-hashing some of the level 60 raid content would be fun. Though I am not sure I want to ever run MC or BWL again. I could do AQ again though. While everyone hated that place, I had a strange liking for it.

They actually announced that they are doing cross realm 5 mans starting in 3.2.2. Its a bummer that its so hard to find a group for lower end instances now and I hope that maybe having a larger que will make it easier.
 

Zorachus

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They actually announced that they are doing cross realm 5 mans starting in 3.2.2. Its a bummer that its so hard to find a group for lower end instances now and I hope that maybe having a larger que will make it easier.

So they will allow 5 different servers to be opened for a que to join an instance group ? That would be awesome. My Brother always complain no one around to run Instances with him. He is super casual WoW player, and highest character is just Level 68, and he would like to run the Outlands instances, but our entire Guild is all Level 80 and doesn't really run these low end runs anymore. My Brother would rather run them with players near his same level, not 4 Epic geared 80's to him that would be cheating in a way and too easy.
 

Ritorix

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I'm pretty nostalgic about the old world, so Cataclysm and revamped content like heroic Deadmines, Onyxia, etc get my interest. Seeing the Barrens blown to bits is very satisfying, I hated that zone.

GOBLINS?

Lol.... shafted. The Horde definitely got the shit additions between the BE's and gobbos

BEs were disappointing but goblins are awesome, they belong in the Horde. Been wanting to play one for years, finally got to play one in WAR and its goblins had the perfect flavor...but the downside was you had to play WAR.

Alliance gets stuck with another bizarre inhuman race, second time they've been shafted.

Anyway, it got me excited and nostalgic enough to resub after 2 years or so. WOTLK is new to me, and damn it took about 2 hours just to get ready to play - review new talents and pick a spec, figure out and buy glyphs, set up user interface and hotkeys, look at all the new stats and features added since TBC (a ton of stuff). The game is pretty damn complex now compared with vanilla and even TBC.
 

AltTabbins

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My Brother would rather run them with players near his same level, not 4 Epic geared 80's to him that would be cheating in a way and too easy.

Im the exact same way. Unless I am going for a piece of gear that I really need or am twinking a character, I prefer to run with toons my level. If an 80 jumps in, you get gimp experience and its not even fun.
 

zoobaby

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I'm pretty nostalgic about the old world, so Cataclysm and revamped content like heroic Deadmines, Onyxia, etc get my interest. Seeing the Barrens blown to bits is very satisfying, I hated that zone.

Same here, that is why I am going to re-activate. Though, I loved questing in the Barrens, I just hated the chat.

BEs were disappointing but goblins are awesome, they belong in the Horde. Been wanting to play one for years, finally got to play one in WAR and its goblins had the perfect flavor...but the downside was you had to play WAR.
Love my shaman in WAR, though the game is not fun anymore. Having been on both sides of zerging, it just gets old. Leveling is fun though, good SC designs and variability imo.

Alliance gets stuck with another bizarre inhuman race, second time they've been shafted.

Anyway, it got me excited and nostalgic enough to resub after 2 years or so. WOTLK is new to me, and damn it took about 2 hours just to get ready to play - review new talents and pick a spec, figure out and buy glyphs, set up user interface and hotkeys, look at all the new stats and features added since TBC (a ton of stuff). The game is pretty damn complex now compared with vanilla and even TBC.

Yeah, I am not looking forward to that when I re-sub. Also raising funds again. I did a huge give away when I quit 9 months ago, my guess is over 5k worth of mats and 2k in gold. At least the friend I gave all the stuff to is still active and will help me out. (I may have a few k in gold still, can't recall how much I saved in case I re-subbed. )
 

Blubikins

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wow is probably just getting boring for everyone. I don't play it but I can imagine a game would get boring after playing for several years straight. except tf2 cause tf2 is crack.
 

diogo

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Alliance gets stuck with another bizarre inhuman race, second time they've been shafted.

Given how much of Blizzcon was about worgen and the worgen transformation, I doubt anyone would call that "being shafted," and I wouldn't be surprised if people went for it 3 to 1.
 

PornoSatan

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Become an adult and join the real world. $180/year is only a lot if you are college age and younger or you are working minimum wage. And even then, I doubt you'd notice missing ~$0.50 a day. Hell that's less than a cup of plain ol' Joe.

Gullible is written on the ceiling. Sarcasm does not exist. Welcome to the internet. Thanks for the "tips" though, hahaha!
 

Gott

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They actually announced that they are doing cross realm 5 mans starting in 3.2.2. Its a bummer that its so hard to find a group for lower end instances now and I hope that maybe having a larger que will make it easier.
I wonder how they're going to curb ninja looting?
 
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