Wow losing ground?

zoobaby

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Gullible is written on the ceiling. Sarcasm does not exist. Welcome to the internet. Thanks for the "tips" though, hahaha!

Sorry, the sarcasm meter missed it... Even though they are a bit girly, :D;):p are all excellent ways to denote sarcasm! :D

"Homer, Mr. Burns can't see you winking through the phone."

LOL...truly a classic line.
 

HardUp4HardWare

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Blizz is really shaking things up with this next expansion.

From what I hear it is going to get "less technical" hopefully easier without being dumbed down.
I am psyched for the new stuff. I am uber-casual, but it would be so cool to have people back exploring the old continents. the scale of these changes is just huge.

Wow isn't perfect, but for me it is (as another poster in this thread said rather well) nice to just explore and enjoy the expansive world, the beautiful artwork and music and just chill.

Losing ground? I don't think so. But I have a feeling Wow is going to continue to grow and change for some time to come. Perhaps the new IP will change things, unless it is a starcraft based MMO. Then I would not be surprised to see the 2 worlds cross. Who knows.

Aion? GW2? If WAR didn't do it they wont. I thought the GW2 trailer was crap.
 

Zorachus

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Blizz is really shaking things up with this next expansion.

From what I hear it is going to get "less technical" hopefully easier without being dumbed down.
I am psyched for the new stuff. I am uber-casual, but it would be so cool to have people back exploring the old continents. the scale of these changes is just huge.

Wow isn't perfect, but for me it is (as another poster in this thread said rather well) nice to just explore and enjoy the expansive world, the beautiful artwork and music and just chill.

Losing ground? I don't think so. But I have a feeling Wow is going to continue to grow and change for some time to come. Perhaps the new IP will change things, unless it is a starcraft based MMO. Then I would not be surprised to see the 2 worlds cross. Who knows.

Aion? GW2? If WAR didn't do it they wont. I thought the GW2 trailer was crap.

I have to agree 100%...I too play very casually, and have been disappointed in how these expansion packs move me further and further away from Azeroth. I never go back to the old world with my main. Like never ever. I have a character parked in Org to buy or trade things I do through the mail box, and for training I am a DK so just go back to the DK trainers. I actually liked Outlands better than I do Northrend.

Would be fun to have a reason to explore Azeroth again.
 

SonicTron

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Well, I quit after wotlk. I came back for Ulduar, wasn't impressed, quit again. Said, maybe I'll come back for the next content. Oh look, it turns out to be some sort of half-assed Argent Tournament where you fight not ONE but TWO jormungars. Yeah, I didn't come back. They further homogenized, nerfed, stripped down all the game mechanics.

Then I see Cataclysm. Oh, rehashed content again. Oh, even more homogenization. Oh, only 5 levels so they can limit the amount of new content (I assume at this point) to only 5 levels span. Oh, Tauren Paladins what the fuck.

I'm staying permanently clean from WoW.

edit: for reference, I was a hardcore raider. Cleared all the content during classic, cleared all the content pre-nerf in tbc (except for the mu'ru pushback nerf, we beat it after the pushback was nerfed). Cleared all the content in wotlk until ulduar, then beat through pretty much all of ulduar without any satisfaction. Quit early ulduar. It was an incredibly lame instance.
 

HardUp4HardWare

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I actually liked Outlands better than I do Northrend.


Yeah. I TOTALLY agree. I am leveling in Northrend now, and really, I thought Outland was way more fun. I got some crap from people for even bothering with Outland content, but honestly, I liked it. Northrend is nice, but meh, maybe meh...

Also, on my server there are not many people doing old world instances now. If there are you have to wait 1-2 hours for a pug and then you get a 50% chance they are idiots, or cant find a healer. I haven't done an instance forever.

I am just trying to hit 80 now so I can do something with my guild. Once I get bored with that I may take a break.

So cool it would be to reexplore everything and fly etc.
 

PornoSatan

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From what I hear it is going to get "less technical" hopefully easier without being dumbed down.

A little history:

Before "ratings" were implemented, gear stats had a base "%" increase. 1% dodge, 1% crit, etc. Blizzard realized as gear improved these numbers would start to reach insane levels, so they decided to assist with the new expansion and level cap to implement "ratings", which formula basically says the higher level you are the less effective these ratings become. So now players needed even more rating to be at the same stats they were before it was invented, this allows players to improve their gear, while improving their char but still not going overboard.

Blizzard got tired of people getting 2-3 shotted in classic, so they decided to implement resilience to also help offset the new stats gear would get as people improved their character. Resilience not only reduces peoples chance to crit you, but also reduces dot damage, crit damage, and so on. It's another stat that can take up an items stat income while not being too overpowered.

Then throughout the months, more stat "fluff" is introduced, dps gear with less crit and more "haste", tank gear with less dodge and more "expertise". "armor penetration", etc

Fast forward to now, and Blizzard realized they'd either need to keep implementing ratings to continue to fluff up the insane amounts of stat allocation new items will be receiving, or just drop it and homogenize it all. They chose the latter. So now basically everything will be dropped, and we're back to square one similar to the early months of classic, when most gear just had +str +sta +ag and no ratings, like Tier 0 for example. If you want to tank you'll get a talent to become crit immune, so no need to worry about being at a proper defense rating to be crit immune-- something druids have had this entire time. No more spellpower, mp5, defense, attack power, your spellpower will be determined by intellect, your regen by spirit. And they've changed str/agility in such a way where you'll know longer see warriors some gear designed for rogues.

In a way I like it, but, I'm not sure if it can overcome my hatred for what will soon be tauren paladins and other equally stupid lore destroying garbage. Might as well implement tauren rogues.



Also, another random fact:

There was a rumor/joke going around that the new races for Burning Crusade were going to be Worgen and Goblins. And now they actually implemented it, kinda sad.
 
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odoe

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I still play, but very little. I'll probably cancel this coming week. I went from hardcore raider to just casual pvp'er and I'm just not having fun anymore. I'm back to playing TF2 mostly now. I've milked WoW for over 4 years now and I think I've had a good run.


(of course, I'm going to hold on to my account, because you never know)
;)
 

hfk

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Haha, how much did smoking add up per year again? And alcohol? :p

That was sarcasm as youd have to be a diehard pirate or a 12yo out of a poor ass family to think 180 bucks a year is expensive. Its just downright embarrasing to have an opinion like that.
 
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In a way I like it, but, I'm not sure if it can overcome my hatred for what will soon be tauren paladins and other equally stupid lore destroying garbage. Might as well implement tauren rogues.

A common misconception is that lore is an ever-present entity that never changes. The truth is, the lore is still there and mostly consistent (though there are a few instances where lore was literally broken for an alternate explanation).

BE pallies for example, were a brand new evolution that happened right before the players' eyes (and of course all the QQ ensued). Now that the entire event is behind us, it's a part of the lore. We can make BE pallies because we know their history. Tauren druids are another good example too. They never existed in the lore, but it had to be established beforehand for faction balancing reasons.

To emphasize how cataclysmic the events are going to be, this was the perfect opportunity to show how some of the races' old traditions are being brought back and some things adopted. It's also mixes things up and offers more choices, from a gameplay perspective.

Cataclysm much akin to the lore in the past. Night Elves embraced magic and whatnot. When The Sundering happened, they realized how deadly and destructive magic can be and abandoned it completely for druidism. Some of the ones who didn't want to were moved east and evolved into modern High Elves (who split up into the Blood Elves and Kael'thas' followers and so on) This however, is going to change again for Cataclysm when the original Highborne return.
 

ACE_350

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I suffer from being severely nostalic of classic WoW. Of course back then I was graduating high school and had all the time in the world to play. I think as with any game they decline as expansions are released. Look at EQ, if anyone played EQ the first expansion which was Kunark/Velious was the glory days of EQ, then Shadows of Luclin, then Planes of Power started the decline. I think WoW will see this same path, although I do believe that the only thing that will "kill" WoW is another WoW MMO or MMO released by blizzard.

I myself am done with MMO's. I was so disappointed with WotLK, the game just got way too simple. Epics didn't even feel like epics anymore. And PvP just got way too stupid. Ever heard of the term "wotlk'd?" The damage output increased almost 4 times as much as 70 while our health pools only increased by 2x... just way too bursty and simplistic.
 

CryingGod

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A common misconception is that lore is an ever-present entity that never changes. The truth is, the lore is still there and mostly consistent (though there are a few instances where lore was literally broken for an alternate explanation).

BE pallies for example, were a brand new evolution that happened right before the players' eyes (and of course all the QQ ensued). Now that the entire event is behind us, it's a part of the lore. We can make BE pallies because we know their history. Tauren druids are another good example too. They never existed in the lore, but it had to be established beforehand for faction balancing reasons.

To emphasize how cataclysmic the events are going to be, this was the perfect opportunity to show how some of the races' old traditions are being brought back and some things adopted. It's also mixes things up and offers more choices, from a gameplay perspective.

Cataclysm much akin to the lore in the past. Night Elves embraced magic and whatnot. When The Sundering happened, they realized how deadly and destructive magic can be and abandoned it completely for druidism. Some of the ones who didn't want to were moved east and evolved into modern High Elves (who split up into the Blood Elves and Kael'thas' followers and so on) This however, is going to change again for Cataclysm when the original Highborne return.

Lol Wow apologist ftl
 

Arialis

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LOL threads like this make me laugh, WOW has more then almost any ten other games combined. I guess it has quite a few people that play, love the game, but do not come here to post about it. Guess they must doing a raid in WoW or something.
 

Mikerocks2112

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My 3's comp was well on its way to getting Gladiator.....then the 3.2 ninja patch hit. Nerfed the shit out of my comp which resulted in us plummeting all the way back down to the 2300 ratings. Been playing this game for 4 years too long...time to move on.
 

spugnor

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Fast forward to now, and Blizzard realized they'd either need to keep implementing ratings to continue to fluff up the insane amounts of stat allocation new items will be receiving, or just drop it and homogenize it all. They chose the latter. So now basically everything will be dropped, and we're back to square one similar to the early months of classic, when most gear just had +str +sta +ag and no ratings, like Tier 0 for example. If you want to tank you'll get a talent to become crit immune, so no need to worry about being at a proper defense rating to be crit immune-- something druids have had this entire time. No more spellpower, mp5, defense, attack power, your spellpower will be determined by intellect, your regen by spirit. And they've changed str/agility in such a way where you'll know longer see warriors some gear designed for rogues.

Excellent. This is the first i have seen of this. The whole proliferation of stats pissed me off big time. Anytime you need a multipage spreadsheet to determine if a particular item is an upgrade or not, things have gotten too complex. I remember when being (for example) a hunter, if it was mail and had better +agil on it, it was something you wanted. Because agil was the hunters primary stat. Sure other stats were usefull, and even desirable, but not usually at the cost of agil. Now you have to balance +agil, +ap(which is effected by agil), +hit rating (a BS stat), +haste rating (BS stat), +resilience (BS stat), etc. etc.

As to the additional races, i see no issues with them at all, but that is a personal opinion. Additional classes for certain races, while not "lore", things evolve. Why would taurens (for example) not be able to be paladins? Now, a tauren rogue would make no sense (have you seen their "hands" how would they ever pick pocket! lol).
 

tuaarita

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That was sarcasm as youd have to be a diehard pirate or a 12yo out of a poor ass family to think 180 bucks a year is expensive. Its just downright embarrasing to have an opinion like that.

It was sarcasm? No fucking way :eek:







:rolleyes:

Ok, let me explain. What I meant to say was that 180$ /year isn't squat compared to the cost of cigarettes and or alcohol per year. Wait that's exactly what I said.
 
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As to the additional races, i see no issues with them at all, but that is a personal opinion. Additional classes for certain races, while not "lore", things evolve. Why would taurens (for example) not be able to be paladins? Now, a tauren rogue would make no sense (have you seen their "hands" how would they ever pick pocket! lol).

How does one explain Gnome warriors? :D

Anyway I think people who use the lore as an argument need to look back farther. I mentioned the thing about Tauren Druids earlier, but I've also read a post that reminded me that *only* male NEs were druids too. In WC3, they slept deep underground while the females stayed above the surface and guarded the lands as "sentinels." Come WoW, they became capable of druidism. Of course, the 99% WoW players won't know this.
 

Trepidati0n

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Excellent. This is the first i have seen of this. The whole proliferation of stats pissed me off big time. Anytime you need a multipage spreadsheet to determine if a particular item is an upgrade or not, things have gotten too complex. I remember when being (for example) a hunter, if it was mail and had better +agil on it, it was something you wanted. Because agil was the hunters primary stat. Sure other stats were usefull, and even desirable, but not usually at the cost of agil. Now you have to balance +agil, +ap(which is effected by agil), +hit rating (a BS stat), +haste rating (BS stat), +resilience (BS stat), etc. etc.

As to the additional races, i see no issues with them at all, but that is a personal opinion. Additional classes for certain races, while not "lore", things evolve. Why would taurens (for example) not be able to be paladins? Now, a tauren rogue would make no sense (have you seen their "hands" how would they ever pick pocket! lol).

Tools like "rawr" have greatly simplified min/maxing....however, simplifying stats can have unintended consequences of people completely avoiding perfectly okay gear and thus marginalize content.
 

HardUp4HardWare

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A little history:

Before "ratings" were implemented, gear stats had a base "%" increase. 1% dodge, 1% crit, etc. Blizzard realized as gear improved these numbers would start to reach insane levels, so they decided to assist with the new expansion and level cap to implement "ratings", which formula basically says the higher level you are the less effective these ratings become. So now players needed even more rating to be at the same stats they were before it was invented, this allows players to improve their gear, while improving their char but still not going overboard.

Blizzard got tired of people getting 2-3 shotted in classic, so they decided to implement resilience to also help offset the new stats gear would get as people improved their character. Resilience not only reduces peoples chance to crit you, but also reduces dot damage, crit damage, and so on. It's another stat that can take up an items stat income while not being too overpowered.

Then throughout the months, more stat "fluff" is introduced, dps gear with less crit and more "haste", tank gear with less dodge and more "expertise". "armor penetration", etc

Fast forward to now, and Blizzard realized they'd either need to keep implementing ratings to continue to fluff up the insane amounts of stat allocation new items will be receiving, or just drop it and homogenize it all. They chose the latter. So now basically everything will be dropped, and we're back to square one similar to the early months of classic, when most gear just had +str +sta +ag and no ratings, like Tier 0 for example. If you want to tank you'll get a talent to become crit immune, so no need to worry about being at a proper defense rating to be crit immune-- something druids have had this entire time. No more spellpower, mp5, defense, attack power, your spellpower will be determined by intellect, your regen by spirit. And they've changed str/agility in such a way where you'll know longer see warriors some gear designed for rogues.

In a way I like it, but, I'm not sure if it can overcome my hatred for what will soon be tauren paladins and other equally stupid lore destroying garbage. Might as well implement tauren rogues.



Awesome write-up THANK YOU!!

These stats have always bugged the crap out of me. I would rather read more about the Lore than trying to endlessly read about stat impact.

I hope what emerges from the expansion is a leaner, cooler game.
 

Ritorix

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Before "ratings" were implemented, gear stats had a base "%" increase. 1% dodge, 1% crit, etc.

Fast forward to now, and Blizzard realized they'd either need to keep implementing ratings to continue to fluff up the insane amounts of stat allocation new items will be receiving, or just drop it and homogenize it all. They chose the latter. So now basically everything will be dropped, and we're back to square one similar to the early months of classic, when most gear just had +str +sta +ag and no ratings, like Tier 0 for example.

In a way I like it, but, I'm not sure if it can overcome my hatred for what will soon be tauren paladins and other equally stupid lore destroying garbage.

I dunno, after the crash-landing spaceships I am numb to lore changes. It cant get any worse and a tauren rogue wouldn't be that bad compared to a dranei anything. At least goblins and worgen are part of the lore already.

WoW (and the WC series) has been around so long it almost needs a history book. Even the history behind a single class is long and complicated. When I started to level a 70 warlock again I looked for Demonic Sacrifice and couldnt even find it - is it gone? Removed from the game? Who knows. Couldnt find Curse of Shadows either - apparently it was combined into Curse of Elements. Both were staple spells back in the day. Next they plan to get rid of Soul Shards all together, introducing a new mechanic in their place. Oh well, learn and adapt.

The gear changes are welcome. They avoid the percentage-based problem that classic WoW items had, and avoid the complications of current WoW. It will be a huge change - enchanting, gemcrafting, etc all need to be updated for the new stats. Pecent-based items were great though, there was nothing like playing a destruction warlock with a huge crit rate back in the day.
 
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Yep, Demonic Sacrifice was removed from the game. Kinda counterproductive when you spend so many talents in the Demonology tree to improve your pet just to sacrifice it lol. And yeah, Curse of Shadows was combined with Curse of Elements and buffed to 13% instead of 10 + 3 with talents (to be consistent to other similar abilities from other classes).
 

Ritorix

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Yep, Demonic Sacrifice was removed from the game. Kinda counterproductive when you spend so many talents in the Demonology tree to improve your pet just to sacrifice it lol. And yeah, Curse of Shadows was combined with Curse of Elements and buffed to 13% instead of 10 + 3 with talents (to be consistent to other similar abilities from other classes).

That explains it. I leveled 60-70 as 30/21/0 spec, the endless health regen DoT spec using Sacrifice. It was fast as hell, triple-dot and move to the next mob, repeat til 70. Now I'm doing Siphon Life + Felguard, also pretty disgusting. Warlocks have had one hell of a ride on the balance rollercoaster.
 

zoobaby

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That explains it. I leveled 60-70 as 30/21/0 spec, the endless health regen DoT spec using Sacrifice. It was fast as hell, triple-dot and move to the next mob, repeat til 70. Now I'm doing Siphon Life + Felguard, also pretty disgusting. Warlocks have had one hell of a ride on the balance rollercoaster.

Yeah...at least they had long periods of OPness. Some classes have never had that OP feeling, or not had it for any length of time.

Where are locks at today? I am re-subbing tonight and will likely will be playing my warlock while slowing leveling my shaman from 75 to 80. What is the best spec for a warlock? I'll likely be doing heroics and maybe filling in on raids. (Plan to be super casual, well plan = gf aggro if I play more than once or twice a week. And sex is way better than WoW.)
 

Gott

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Yeah...at least they had long periods of OPness. Some classes have never had that OP feeling, or not had it for any length of time.

Where are locks at today? I am re-subbing tonight and will likely will be playing my warlock while slowing leveling my shaman from 75 to 80. What is the best spec for a warlock? I'll likely be doing heroics and maybe filling in on raids. (Plan to be super casual, well plan = gf aggro if I play more than once or twice a week. And sex is way better than WoW.)
Destro for now, is the best spec for Warlocks. Affliction just doesn't keep up and Demonology... well, we don't talk about Demonology. ;)
 

InorganicMatter

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I don't understand people who say WoW is a grindfest, no endgame material, etc.

It hasn't been like that for years. Blizz has made it easier than ever to get to 80, and the amount of endgame stuff is huge. They added Ulduar in patch 3.1, Trail of the Champion/Crusader in 3.2, and Icecrown Citadel is on the way. And yet, most of the "normal" players out there haven't cleared Naxx, let alone any of the new content that's been added.
 

tuaarita

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I dunno, after the crash-landing spaceships I am numb to lore changes. It cant get any worse and a tauren rogue wouldn't be that bad compared to a dranei anything. At least goblins and worgen are part of the lore already.

Archimonde in WC3 sort of looks like a Draenei. Or is a draenei I'm not sure.
 
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Archimonde in WC3 sort of looks like a Draenei. Or is a draenei I'm not sure.

Yeah, he and Kil'Jaeden are of Eredar descent. Both were introduced in WC3 so Draenei aren't anything incredibly new to Warcraft (like TBC). Which makes my wonder what was so "lore-breaking" about TBC, since the a large percentage of the lore came at least from WC3.
 
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spugnor

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How does one explain Gnome warriors? :D


Well, i personally would never get in a fight with anything that is head level to "mr spug." Gives them a heck of an advantage, especially in generating "threat." :D Plus, think about the size modifiers, you just can't hit the little bitty things.

Boss: "hmmm, that little armored helmet is yelling something about my mother. Time to squish! Huh. Missed. This time for sure! Shoot, missed again. OW! @#%#$^&#$ LITTLE BASTERD CRITTED ME NUTS!" :D



Note: I know there is no size modifier to hit, but there SHOULD be... :p
 

krameriffic

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I don't understand people who say WoW is a grindfest, no endgame material, etc.

It hasn't been like that for years. Blizz has made it easier than ever to get to 80, and the amount of endgame stuff is huge. They added Ulduar in patch 3.1, Trail of the Champion/Crusader in 3.2, and Icecrown Citadel is on the way. And yet, most of the "normal" players out there haven't cleared Naxx, let alone any of the new content that's been added.

People can say all they want about hating WoW, but I feel they have been successful in bringing the endgame to the masses rather than just the obsessive compulsive number crunching nerdmosexuals that populate the top guilds on every server. People on internet forums often decry this change, but people on internet forums also tend to fall into the aforementioned nerdmosexual demographic.
 

GotNoRice

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I think there are a few reasons the expansion hasn't generated very much hype:

1. It's still a long way's off. They are talking 2010 which will probably be the later half of that year. There is no beta yet. People know by this point that just because something is announced doesn't mean it's not still a LONG way off. Hard to get excited about something that won't even happen until a year from now.

2. There are a lot of exciting things going on in the game RIGHT NOW. 3.2 patch came out not too long ago and people who haven't run heroic dungeons in months are doing so again so they can get gear from the conquest vendor. Guilds are still sinking their teeth into content such as ToC.

When you try to run a dungeon each night and have to spend 20minutes getting into the dungeon because all of the dungeons are full, it's not because the game is losing players...

Also enough with the 5-year old engine BS. When I first played WoW I ran it on a FireGL X1 128(basically a 9700 Pro). Anyone using a card that old these days better be running on nearly minimum settings unless they enjoy slideshow framerates. Each expansion they increase the capabilities of the engine rather significantly. Recently it was new shadows, and in the next expansion it will be a revamp of water effects, among other things.
 

ashmelev75

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I think there are a few reasons the expansion hasn't generated very much hype:
1. It's still a long way's off. They are talking 2010 which will probably be the later half of that year. There is no beta yet. People know by this point that just because something is announced doesn't mean it's not still a LONG way off. Hard to get excited about something that won't even happen until a year from now.

It may be much sooner than you expect.
The anniversary patch 3.2.2 with revamped Onyxia encounter is coming within the next few weeks.
Patch 3.3 with Icecrown Citadel may be released during holidays, sometime around Dec'09-Jan'10.
After that count ~3-4 months until Beta starts, ~6-7 months until the pre-expansion patch and ~7-8 months until the expansion is released.

Yes, it is still about a year away, but I can smell it already! ;)
 

Mokkat

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I havent played Wow for a couple of years now. I never tried WoTLK.
The new expansion excites me though, I just might start playing again when it launches :)
 

Ocellaris

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It may be much sooner than you expect.
The anniversary patch 3.2.2 with revamped Onyxia encounter is coming within the next few weeks.
Patch 3.3 with Icecrown Citadel may be released during holidays, sometime around Dec'09-Jan'10.
After that count ~3-4 months until Beta starts, ~6-7 months until the pre-expansion patch and ~7-8 months until the expansion is released.

Yes, it is still about a year away, but I can smell it already! ;)

so you think people are going to be occupied and happy farming icecrown for 8 staight months? no way that much time would pass between 3.3 and cataclysm.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 

ashmelev75

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so you think people are going to be occupied and happy farming icecrown for 8 staight months? no way that much time would pass between 3.3 and cataclysm.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

Patch 2.4 Sunwell was released on Mar 25 2008.
Patch 3.0.2 released on Oct 14 2008.
WoTLK released on Nov 14 2008.

7 months between the last major content patch and the expansion.
I gave 5-8 month estimate between Icecrown and Cataclysm.
 

Ocellaris

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Patch 2.4 Sunwell was released on Mar 25 2008.
Patch 3.0.2 released on Oct 14 2008.
WoTLK released on Nov 14 2008.

7 months between the last major content patch and the expansion.
I gave 5-8 month estimate between Icecrown and Cataclysm.

sunwell was difficult and kept dangling the carrot on a stick in ront of people. the new content comes in 10 and 25 man versions of both a normal and heroic mode now. people with barely and skill can see all the content.
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