Windows 8: A Design Disaster

Damn, no edit: Also, Windows 7 is essentially Windows Vista with a Service Pack. That's been said a few times. XP was a SP to Win2K and a new UI....
 
ianken said:
That someone is Julie Larson-Green. The brains behind the Office ribbon. Windows is now stuffed at the top with former Office team drones, since that's where Sinofsky came from.

That's also why the media story is Win8 is such total shit. All they care about is email and facebooking your skydrive bing exhange one note sharepoint cloud doodle. Or whatever passionless office wankers care about.
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It all makes sense now. The ribbon was a ridiculous idea to begin with. Applying the same sort of thinking to an OS GUI is just ignorant of ease of use.
 
daglesj said:
Come xmas MS will be trying to sell Win8 tablets against dual core IPS Android tablets for $200.

Hmmmm.
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Galaxy Nexus tab is $199 and we might see a 10.1 inch version as well. Then there's the new Asus tablet that's also $199 (and likely Asus is making that Nexus tablet so it's going to be the same).
 
pelo said:
Galaxy Nexus tab is $199 and we might see a 10.1 inch version as well. Then there's the new Asus tablet that's also $199 (and likely Asus is making that Nexus tablet so it's going to be the same).
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Exactly and there will be MS asking $600+ for their chunky tablets.:(
 
heatlesssun said:
But the ribbon in Office wasn't well received by all of the passionate online know UIs better than Microsoft and Office has never sold better.
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I read that like 4 times and I'm still not sure what you were trying to say. Try proofreading next time.

heatlesssun said:
Metro apps can be very powerful and complex and do the vast majority of what desktop apps do today and not look 20 years old as well.
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What is your criteria for an app looking 20 years old? Not being able to use the app by mashing your face against the screen while sitting on the couch?
 
I think the only reason Office sells better since 2007 is because you couldn't buy the cheap home & student edition before that.

You had to dig deep or steal it.
 
MetroUI needs to stay on the less then 1% market share of Windows phones. Let the desktop have a desktop! (Without having to click the tile!)
 
Haven't bothered reading the thread, hoping somebody called the author on these lies:
The first problem comes when you try to find the application you want to run. Every version of Windows since Windows 95 has trained us to scroll through a vertical list looking for the applications we want to launch, but with Windows 8, Microsoft has thrown away this concept and instead adopted a system called the Start Screen where the links to all your apps are spread across the screen.
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Each version has trained that? Some versions did sideways expansion, some had scroll bars at top and bottom, some encouraged using MRU, some encouraged search first, scroll second.

Microsoft has offered users an escape chute, given that you’re not going to be able to find anything, and added a search feature that allows you to filter the apps by typing the name of what you’re looking for. This works, but it’s clumsy and makes a mockery of having all the icons displayed on screen in the first place. Every time I’m forced to use it, it’s another failure for the Microsoft design team.
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Added? That feature was added in Vista.
 
I still miss the "Rainy Day" theme. Using W2K and XP in VM's makes me nostalgic for the good ol' days.
 
GotNoRice said:
What is your criteria for an app looking 20 years old? Not being able to use the app by mashing your face against the screen while sitting on the couch?
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Stuff that's not all battleship gray and uses color, motion and clean typography.
 
Gray is so 1999. Color is the new color! In 2018, when color is passe, gray will be the new color! Boo color! Microsoft leading the pack!
 
Tawnos said:
Each version has trained that? Some versions did sideways expansion, some had scroll bars at top and bottom, some encouraged using MRU, some encouraged search first, scroll second.
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I have no idea where this stuff comes from. The current Windows UI and applications are ALL over the place, there's not nearly as much consistency in Windows as many seem to state. Like the whole issue over the close button. How many apss do not close when you click the close button or don't use standard windows or don't even have close buttons today?
 
Win 8 with Metro UI is a disaster by design. Just like BOB UI over Win 3.1 & Win 95. They must be so creative by using bath salts that caused their 15w bulb brains to recall BOB. Hence the birth of Metro. Where's Microsoft's common sense?
 
mzs_biteme said:
I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware.

^This 100%....
I had the same exact feeling 5min after installing Win8 preview on my laptop..... :rolleyes:
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THIS :D

forcing users to use metro is f-ed up.
 
windows 8 sucks balls they should have made a fucking desktop version and then made another version called windows tablet that ran off windows 8 kernal and only was for fucking tablets.


they stuck both togeather at the same time and made each one suck. it sucks as a desltop because of the tablet crap and it sucks as a tablet os because of the desktop mode.
'
 
Cube said:
windows 8 sucks balls they blah blah blah
'
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Yea yea we know already, you hate the new windows. We get it. Now please pick up your bat and clean up the horse blood you've been spattering around for the last 2 weeks.

heatlesssun said:
I have no idea where this stuff comes from. The current Windows UI and applications are ALL over the place, there's not nearly as much consistency in Windows as many seem to state. Like the whole issue over the close button. How many apss do not close when you click the close button or don't use standard windows or don't even have close buttons today?
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Still fighting the good fight eh? Good luck to ya. The greatest trick the internet user has ever pulled is convincing himself he is open minded.

daglesj said:
Exactly and there will be MS asking $600+ for their chunky tablets.:(
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There was a discussion on here about how cheap tablets are what is hurting competitors to the iPad. So if MS does come out with higher priced tablets I would hope its the high end stuff going to compete with Apples and not the Androids.

ktk_ace said:
THIS :D

forcing users to use metro is f-ed up.
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Well no one is forcing these users to use windows 8. And now that the desktop environment is now going to be less of a fixture and more of an app, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
 
I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware.
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I said this like the day after I tried the consumer preview.
 
Here's what I think...

Win8 is for the masses who only surf, facebooke, IM, and maybe update their resume for the most part.

Don't get me wrong, I think things do need to be simplified (because the average RN or the average Doctor have no f'in clue how to open up MS Word, let alone system properties. However, Metro UI has its advantages. Keeps clutter out of the way (more or less) and keeps the most important stuff right in front of you. (Perfect for businesses).

While I still rock Win7 for everything production, I could see the future of enterprise businesses moving to a Metro like UI. Look at Awesome New Tab Page for Chrome. IMO, this is how Chrome SHOULD have done its 'apps' page.
 
djgizmo said:
Here's what I think...

Win8 is for the masses who only surf, facebooke, IM, and maybe update their resume for the most part.

Don't get me wrong, I think things do need to be simplified (because the average RN or the average Doctor have no f'in clue how to open up MS Word, let alone system properties. However, Metro UI has its advantages. Keeps clutter out of the way (more or less) and keeps the most important stuff right in front of you. (Perfect for businesses).

While I still rock Win7 for everything production, I could see the future of enterprise businesses moving to a Metro like UI. Look at Awesome New Tab Page for Chrome. IMO, this is how Chrome SHOULD have done its 'apps' page.
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This is what I was thinking as well. The masses who are the real majority tend to have usage patterns that benefit more from this new UI direction.

And in business, they need to steer away from letting people know the whole system. You should only know how to get to the programs that help you get your job done and the OS should make it as easy as possible for that to happen.

So when a work user says, "I can't find my iTunes application", Their manager can just say, "How the frack does iTunes help you get those TPS reports done?" :)

With that said, I love Windows 7 and I am not moving to Win8 anytime soon as my main OS. By the time I do upgrade, Windows 8 will be near or past SP1 and all the bleeding edger's would have finished the bulk of beta testing for me. I'll have played with it in enough VM's to have no problems settling in when it's time.

By the way, a really really cool app I found might be of interest to you guys. It's called Splashtop Win8 Metro Testbed. I have Win8 in a Virtualbox VM connected to my wifi network. I can load it in my Galaxy Tab via wifi and it switches to the touch mode so I can use it tablet style. Really really cool.
 
I would happily accept what seemed like a "...service pack of Windows 7...". But this Metro crap is stupid and I simply won't buy it.

Which begs the question: Why does Microsoft have to screw up what seems like every other attempt they make at building a decent consumer OS?

Just going back to Windows ME, because Windows 2000 wasn't supposed to be a "consumer OS" and previous versions were still heavily based on 16-bit code... Windows XP wasn't a real 'jewel' when it was released, but it improved vastly with some service packs. Windows Vista wasn't truly terrible but it still wasn't well received due to the drastic changes implemented in the UI. Then they had another success with Windows 7. So NOW they want to completely revamp the UI with Metro. Its like they have some congenital predisposition to failure. And its a wonder they survive!

Come to think of it: is there any other company that can pull off this many blunders and survive? I don't think so! And it urks me no end that the only reason why I continue to use Windows is for PC gaming. *doublefacepalm
 
This thing IS a design disaster. They have remnants of extinct OS'es thrown about a GUI consisting of pieces of Aero, Ribbon, and Metro. It's so insanely inconsistent it makes me sick. Their fix? Removing transparency from the visual style and calling it "new" and "fresh". Pathetic.
 
This is very different, and its going to cause a LOT of backlash from people who are used to the old ways. Nothing wrong with that.

I love the people who bash Windows Phones on here mercilessly. Its easily the best OS for mobile by far. Everything I could possibly be really interested in is one or AT most 2 clicks away.

This is an OS with the same mindset. How many apps do I run on an average basis in the day? Chrome, steam, MAYBE office, Zune player. I AGREE that they need to do quite a bit of work on the All Apps section to make it usable but, Christ people, just don't buy it if you don't like it.
 
trembli0s said:
I love the people who bash Windows Phones on here mercilessly. Its easily the best OS for mobile by far. Everything I could possibly be really interested in is one or AT most 2 clicks away.
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I have to reluctantly agree that my Windows phones were the easiest to use. Example: when a text or email comes in, you can select "mark as read" right from the home screen. Android? Gotta click on the message notification which takes you to the "messages" screen, then click on the thread of the user that sent you the message, and once that loads (hope it doesn't have 1000+ entries) it is marked as read. Navigating contacts, calendar entries, etc. all superior on the WM platform. BB was solid but they were late to the touchscreen and multimedia game, and the dependability and stability from the qwerty days is gone.

If it weren't for the intermittent UI freezes and the fact that I had to reboot it every day, I'd still have a Windows phone. Kinda off topic I know, but I'd just as soon tell any police still lurking around at this hour to go back to their one-handed browsing activities.
 
potency said:
If it weren't for the intermittent UI freezes and the fact that I had to reboot it every day, I'd still have a Windows phone. Kinda off topic I know, but I'd just as soon tell any police still lurking around at this hour to go back to their one-handed browsing activities.
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Pretty odd, Windows Phones are generally rock solid, I think I've had to reboot mine maybe 3 times in the last 15 months.
 
mzs_biteme said:
I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware.

^This 100%....
I had the same exact feeling 5min after installing Win8 preview on my laptop..... :rolleyes:
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I felt the same way about it actually. Like there was 2 separate UIs or OSs fighting to be the primary.

That and everything had to be vetted by microsoft on boot (or something similar), everything wanted me to sign in with a microsoft account, etc.

It's a shame actually, I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised by how smooth the UI was.:p
 
The author of that article is a known MS hater and think-negative guy. Nobody cares about what he says.
 
What's not smooth about it? Want the desktop? Click on desktop. Done. Looks like Windows 7, tastes like chicken as usual.

The only earth shattering difference at that point, is that where the Start button used to be takes you back to the Metro screen, which is essentially just a more visual Start menu.

Not so bad.
 
Well, sorry to have quoted his large, angry text... I think I noticed it because of the large font and that it struck a chord with my own experience.

I've used dos, windows, mac os, ubuntu/fedora just recently (right now)... I don't particularly hate any of them, or the organizations behind them. It's just software that does stuff I want the computer to do.

That being said, I really wasn't impressed by Windows 8 and there are some design choices that were, in my opinion, made poorly. Maybe it's an attempt to simplify the user interface for casual/novice users who crave something more smartphonish. It all cooks down to software support for me though.
 
I think once people get their hands on the x86 devices they will get it. The metro interface is great on phones, so when in tablet mode, you get the best of the touch design and gestures. When you're really wanting to produce and are in laptop mode, you get eh standard Windows mode that people are crying for. Otherwise, I will NEVER understand the crying on this board. Again, if you're on a desktop and you're crying about Metro and you are using metro more than 1% of the time you're just doing it wrong and should question how well you utilize your workspace.
 
trembli0s said:
This is an OS with the same mindset. How many apps do I run on an average basis in the day? Chrome, steam, MAYBE office, Zune player. I AGREE that they need to do quite a bit of work on the All Apps section to make it usable but, Christ people, just don't buy it if you don't like it.
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even if I only used the same, single application every day I still wouldn't want to launch it with a big "press me, stupid" button taking up my entire screen, which is what metro reminds me of.

I just feel like I've gone backwards in computing when I stare at the Metro screen. It's like a screen of icons...only without anything that makes an icon aesthetically appealing.
 
What I don't get about the Microsoft - they released alpha, M2, M3 and so on until its last one being Release Candidate yet they never bothered to put choices for us to click on the box for either Metro or Desktop before finalizing Win8 installation even tho I'm 100% sure they must have heard tons of complains around the Internet world.
 
mope54 said:
even if I only used the same, single application every day I still wouldn't want to launch it with a big "press me, stupid" button taking up my entire screen, which is what metro reminds me of.

I just feel like I've gone backwards in computing when I stare at the Metro screen. It's like a screen of icons...only without anything that makes an icon aesthetically appealing.
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That's the other thing I don't like about metro (and also ribbon FWIW). Screens of icons are shit for productivity, lists are far better. If you want to find 1 option amongst say, 25 choices, I personally find it far easier to find that option when it's displayed as a long list of 25 choices which only takes up a small portion of the screen opposed to a 5 by 5 array of icons that takes the entire screen.

There's a reason why the Start Menu is popular, there's a reason why people like it, it's not simply people disliking change (though that is also a legitimate reason for hate IMO).
 
rantanamo said:
I think once people get their hands on the x86 devices they will get it. The metro interface is great on phones, so when in tablet mode, you get the best of the touch design and gestures. When you're really wanting to produce and are in laptop mode, you get eh standard Windows mode that people are crying for. Otherwise, I will NEVER understand the crying on this board. Again, if you're on a desktop and you're crying about Metro and you are using metro more than 1% of the time you're just doing it wrong and should question how well you utilize your workspace.
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Once again we have no problem with Metro on tablets and touch interface gear.

Can we make that quite clear? Thank you.

What we dont like is having to use it on non touch gear that we have already. Oh and wouldn't it just be nice to have that simple little thing like a CHOICE as to whether we have it active or not?

"Do you wish to run the Metro Touch User interface - Yes/No? (please note you can activate it again at a later date)"

Currently as I've mentioned before Windows 8 is like a car with two steering wheels.
 
Tudz said:
That's the other thing I don't like about metro (and also ribbon FWIW). Screens of icons are shit for productivity, lists are far better. If you want to find 1 option amongst say, 25 choices, I personally find it far easier to find that option when it's displayed as a long list of 25 choices which only takes up a small portion of the screen opposed to a 5 by 5 array of icons that takes the entire screen.

There's a reason why the Start Menu is popular, there's a reason why people like it, it's not simply people disliking change (though that is also a legitimate reason for hate IMO).
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But the people who are in IT love ribbons. Basically they get bugged less about functionality because that functionality is hidden from the users. Its like hiding the sharp pointy knives away from the children to them.

The people ticked off about ribbons are people who are moderately proficient with PCs but PCs are a tool to do their job, not the focus of their job.
 
Windows 8 is a trainwreck of epic proportions. It’s just so disjointed, and inconsistent, and cumbersome. Just like the article says, it's basically like they duct taped two completely different OS's together.
 
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