Windows 10 users fume: Microsoft, where's our 'local account' option gone?

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
6,377
You can easily run an iPhone or macOS without iCloud. Apple of course suggests you login but can easily be skipped on install or first boot without any nags. iCloud gives a tremendous amount of user benefits but Apple doesn't force anyone to use them.
A lot of anti-Apple bias.
You are correct you can hit ignore, and then the more you hit ignore the faster they come up and prompt. I have 5 on my desk right now that after you hit cancel to the sign in page it pops back up in 1 minute putting itself in the foreground so you have to deal with it. Try getting anything productive done if every 1 minute you have to stop doing what you are trying to do and click the No button. It is very annoying and they have just pulled them out of their room. The only good news to come from this issue is they are going to actually spend the money to extend my Jamf licenses from just the iOS and tvOS devices to also include the OSX devices as well so they can actually start using the Mac's again.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
42,736
To quote myself:



I find it really surprising people don't know how the Windows 10 installer works.
just felt like quoting yourself? or did you have something constructive to add? where are you coming up with this "random" oobe?

this is what you get with no internet. click continue and you can create a local account

upload_2019-10-2_16-49-47.png


this is what you get with internet, click domain join and you can create a local account

upload_2019-10-2_16-50-25.png
 

Nimisys

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 20, 2000
Messages
20,880
meh. I haven't done a local user account since the option for the alternative microsoft account was created.

What's the use case for creating a local user account? Would be kind of odd to decide to install and run their os but not want to make a single-use outlook account.

I have an old laptop at work. My account on it is tied to my MS account for various reasons. I have separate highly locked down local account on the machine labelled SHOP USE for when it is needed as a diagnostic tool. That account has no password, no email, nothing beyond what is needed to work for it's function. Who ever needs to use it for a diagnostic tool can grab it and run it without messing with anything of mine on it and having it synch to my other devices.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
We also went over the point "how long until this is incorporated in the ISO's offline OOBE forcing you to be online to install Windows?"

And the result, as you should recall, was "not before there is free Internet literally everywhere, because Microsoft doesn't want to be the target of a class action suit by people who are denied use of their computer."
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
As it is there's a number of operating systems available now where this is the case

We went over this. It's perfectly possible to set up an Android phone without creating a Google account. Yes, that places limits on what you can do with the phone, but sideloading is a thing.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
Admit it, Microsoft own your PC and their decisions as late haven't been very enthusiast friendly. Rather than make up excuses, tell them to piss off.

Neither my work nor my home PCs are owned by Microsoft, nor have Microsoft accounts.

I need Windows for my job because I use tools that don't exist for non-Windows OSes (but in theory I could always find another job where that's not an issue), but for home I could almost[1] switch.

[1] the sticking point is Wine compatibility for my games.
 

Ebernanut

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
1,664
Glad to see so many of you mentioned what a big ado about nothing this is. For those of you that don't like Windows, you should be installing Linux or OSX and that is the end of it. Why get so worked up?

I've been using Windows since v3.11. Installed every single new version. Not once did I think to myself that I would be better off with Linux or OSX so I don't. I've tried OS/2, Warp, and some other GUI competitor but never liked it. But I also don't complain everywhere about Linux or OSX every chance I get.

Install Windows, GPU driver, and antivirus. That is the end of the story on the OS part. I got much more interesting stuff to be doing with my PC than ranting ont everything bad about Windows.

That's a bad argument since Windows is still the best OS for most people however that doesn't change that it's rapidly getting worse in several ways including flexibility and privacy. Not to mention that many use Windows only programs making alternatives not even an option.

It's clear that MS is using there dominant market position to push changes that benefit them at the expense of the user, in this case it's a nudge towards a system that facilitates increased data harvesting and subscription fees. At first they just made online accounts the default option, now they're trying to hide the option for offline accounts, and then they'll completely remove the option(likely with an exception for enterprise).

I can understand not caring about this sort of thing but I can't understand why anyone would actively defend it unless they were in favor of increased, more personalized data harvesting and turning Windows into a service(less control over your PC and more $).
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,520
What region are you in? I wonder if that makes any difference. I also wonder if there is something crazy with the Lenovo UEFI or secure boot keys that is giving some difference in the installer. I doubt the second case, but I have a hard time believing that the Microsoft installer just randomly picks whether or not to give the local account option. Every time I have tried it, with both home and Pro, media creation tool installer, when connected by Ethernet, I have had the option.

If someone could figure out why some people, doing essentially the same thing, are getting different results, it would go a long way for the entire tech community at this point.

US Region, PNW if that matters. I could practically walk over to Bill Gates' house and slap him in the face for this insult. :p

As for the Lenovo thing, I've had it happen on a few different OEMs now so I don't think it's set to a certain manufacturer, but it's hard to say. One time it was with the initial setup from an OEM-installed copy of Windows, this latest time it was using the Media Creation Tool straight from MS on a USB flash drive.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
just felt like quoting yourself? or did you have something constructive to add? where are you coming up with this "random" oobe?

this is what you get with no internet. click continue and you can create a local account

View attachment 190739

this is what you get with internet, click domain join and you can create a local account

View attachment 190740

Note how I'm specifically talking about Windows 10 Home, that's the only OS I've experienced it on so far. Try joining a domain under Windows 10 Home.

Do want to see my screenshots? Better still, search for the original thread, it's all there and the evidence is irrefutable. Unless you're blindsided with your love of Microsoft and refuse to concede to reality.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
And the result, as you should recall, was "not before there is free Internet literally everywhere, because Microsoft doesn't want to be the target of a class action suit by people who are denied use of their computer."

We've discussed all this in great detail, not interested in banging my head against the wall again.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
42,736
Note how I'm specifically talking about Windows 10 Home, that's the only OS I've experienced it on so far. Try joining a domain under Windows 10 Home.

Do want to see my screenshots? Better still, search for the original thread, it's all there and the evidence is irrefutable. Unless you're blindsided with your love of Microsoft and refuse to concede to reality.
so why did you reply to my post if youre solely focused on home and rambled about the oobe?
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
so why did you reply to my post if youre solely focused on home and rambled about the oobe?

Because the OOBE is cloud based, that means it applies to all versions of Windows 10, it's obvious you don't know how the default installer works either. As stated, look for the original post, it's all in there and backed up with Microsoft links.
 
Last edited:

jardows

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,188
US Region, PNW if that matters. I could practically walk over to Bill Gates' house and slap him in the face for this insult. :p

As for the Lenovo thing, I've had it happen on a few different OEMs now so I don't think it's set to a certain manufacturer, but it's hard to say. One time it was with the initial setup from an OEM-installed copy of Windows, this latest time it was using the Media Creation Tool straight from MS on a USB flash drive.
Hmm. I'm in Virginia, and have installed on HP, Dell, and virtual machines. It's been a couple of months since I last did an install, so I'll fire up a VM again and try a Home install. I imagine there wouldn't be any strict differences regionally within the same country. We probably should start a thread in the OS sub-forum to collect data and try to nail down the differences.

Edit: So I went ahead and created a thread in the OS sub-form to collect data. If you are interested in contributing to this, please try out a Windows 1903 installation and report there.
 
Last edited:

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
Because the OOBE is cloud based

You do love talking past everyone else. The cloud OOBE doesn't block you from creating a local account if you're offline when you install Windows, because Microsoft doesn't have any way to download it, and you know it. Nobody cares about the cloudy OOBE except you.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
42,736
just connected the one i loaded offline to the network and the oobe popped up and wanted to create a MS account. hit cancel and it went away and hasnt bugged me again.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
You do love talking past everyone else. The cloud OOBE doesn't block you from creating a local account if you're offline when you install Windows, because Microsoft doesn't have any way to download it, and you know it. Nobody cares about the cloudy OOBE except you.

BTW--I'm not disagreeing with you about the cloud OOBE. I'm just pointing out that that's not what everyone else is talking about. Whether or not you should have to do the offline workaround to get a local account is a different matter from whether or not you *can* get a local account at all, and I think there would've been a lot less heat in that other thread had you admitted that distinction earlier, because it was proven that "there is no way you can get a local account at all", which is what it looked like you were saying at first, was and is simply wrong. Everyone eventually agreed that if you were online, at least in 1809 Home, there was no way to get a local account, but that MS backed off in 1903 to an extent.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
just connected the one i loaded offline to the network and the oobe popped up and wanted to create a MS account. hit cancel and it went away and hasnt bugged me again.

Yep--that's definitely the case, and once everyone agreed on what the conditions were (offline vs online, which version of Windows, etc). The other issue was "should you have to go to the trouble of being offline to have to get a local account", which I think everyone (except Microsoft) also agrees the answer is "no".
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
42,736
Yep--that's definitely the case, and once everyone agreed on what the conditions were (offline vs online, which version of Windows, etc). The other issue was "should you have to go to the trouble of being offline to have to get a local account", which I think everyone (except Microsoft) also agrees the answer is "no".
ms still lets you create an offline account while being online. the other system i mentioned yesterday aft did it just fine. as far as i can tell/see its just a change in wording.
 

Shoganai

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
1,467
It's still there, I just did 2 w10 1903 builds. You just choose the option "I don't have internet" during setup. I don't connect the internet at all until the install is done, then I hook up to let it do updates/activate etc
Just set up Windows 10 on several devices in the last couple of weeks and I had no issues setting up a local account.


Yep--that's definitely the case, and once everyone agreed on what the conditions were (offline vs online, which version of Windows, etc). The other issue was "should you have to go to the trouble of being offline to have to get a local account", which I think everyone (except Microsoft) also agrees the answer is "no".
Yeah, I don't like being badgered for that sort of thing.
 

UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
7,406
You are correct you can hit ignore, and then the more you hit ignore the faster they come up and prompt. I have 5 on my desk right now that after you hit cancel to the sign in page it pops back up in 1 minute putting itself in the foreground so you have to deal with it. Try getting anything productive done if every 1 minute you have to stop doing what you are trying to do and click the No button. It is very annoying and they have just pulled them out of their room. The only good news to come from this issue is they are going to actually spend the money to extend my Jamf licenses from just the iOS and tvOS devices to also include the OSX devices as well so they can actually start using the Mac's again.

My Dad ran his phone without iCloud for well over 2 years without this issue, and I know this because I migrated his phone. There is a bug that causes the login to cycle. You can Google about it. It isn't quite known what sets it off, but you can start with a full restore of the phones.
 

jardows

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,188
ms still lets you create an offline account while being online. the other system i mentioned yesterday aft did it just fine. as far as i can tell/see its just a change in wording.

Just set up Windows 10 on several devices in the last couple of weeks and I had no issues setting up a local account.



Yeah, I don't like being badgered for that sort of thing.
If you guys remember some of the details, even if it isn't all I'm asking for, would you be able to post your information in the survey thread I created?
 

jeremyshaw

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
12,512
My laptop didn't give me the option of Local Account (OEM install - yes, I was disconnected from the network). I wiped the SSD and installed a fresh copy of the OS, which presented the option.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
My laptop didn't give me the option of Local Account (OEM install - yes, I was disconnected from the network). I wiped the SSD and installed a fresh copy of the OS, which presented the option.

When you say "OEM Install" do you mean something like "it came from Dell with Windows preinstalled" or something different? If the former, it could've come that way from the manufacturer, maybe someone got to it before you and started it up while online? (If you turned it on for the first time ever and had no way to do an offline install, in your shoes, I'd've called Dell (or whoever) and said "how do you expect me to use this machine if I'm setting it up somewhere that doesn't have Internet for whatever reason?, because you probably didn't agree when you bought it that you couldn't use it without access to Microsoft's servers)


I used to be the person in my office who set up new PCs (we always buy Dell) and, as it happened, I never did the initial setup online, to save a little time.
 

jeremyshaw

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
12,512
When you say "OEM Install" do you mean something like "it came from Dell with Windows preinstalled" or something different? If the former, it could've come that way from the manufacturer, maybe someone got to it before you and started it up while online? (If you turned it on for the first time ever and had no way to do an offline install, in your shoes, I'd've called Dell (or whoever) and said "how do you expect me to use this machine if I'm setting it up somewhere that doesn't have Internet for whatever reason?, because you probably didn't agree when you bought it that you couldn't use it without access to Microsoft's servers)


I used to be the person in my office who set up new PCs (we always buy Dell) and, as it happened, I never did the initial setup online, to save a little time.
This makes sense. So if it even touches the internet at some point before account creation, it will insist on a MSFT account? I'll keep this in mind for the future.
 

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
3,080
So if it even touches the internet at some point before account creation, it will insist on a MSFT account

I will admit I don't know. Someone would have to try it out. I was just making a hopefully educated guess.
 

extide

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
3,494
You can always use a local account if you pick "Setup for Work or School" and then pick 'Domain Join Instead' and it will create a regular local account. You can do this even if connected to the internet.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
Bear in mind that the offline option only exists until Microsoft decide to push the cloud based OOBE into the actual ISO, which wouldn't be out of the question in this day and age, especially regarding Windows 10 Home.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
You do love talking past everyone else. The cloud OOBE doesn't block you from creating a local account if you're offline when you install Windows, because Microsoft doesn't have any way to download it, and you know it. Nobody cares about the cloudy OOBE except you.

Which I never disputed. Read my post above, this has been my experience regarding the OOBE no one really knows about and this, coupled with the fact that 90% of people out there will do an online install, has been my argument all along.

How you interpret the context of my reply is in no way my concern.
 

jeremyshaw

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
12,512
Sure, and then the class-action lawsuit starts.
...sometime after online DRM is banned, probably. Whenever that happens. As the words on my copy of Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 say: "Internet connection, online authentication and [...] required to play." So much for my DVD and serial key. I don't see something similar being an unrealistic requirement for a future OS release. Right now, MSFT et al are just dangling carrots to get us to sign in using online profiles. Some, as noted, have long moved to using the stick.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
Sure, and then the class-action lawsuit starts.

Certain operating systems insist on an online account now, in the name of security, I don't see any class action lawsuits - In fact the subdued masses don't even bat an eyelid.

Did another Windows 10 Home install today, did it offline to make sure I could actually create a local account and was not surprised whatsoever at the lengths Microsoft are going to in an attempt to try and trick the average user, which is most of the Windows user base, into going online to perform their install. It's pathetic, not to mention amazingly shameless.

Furthermore, I swear the install actually takes noticeably longer when performing an offline install, for no good reason.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,165
...sometime after online DRM is banned, probably. Whenever that happens. As the words on my copy of Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 say: "Internet connection, online authentication and [...] required to play." So much for my DVD and serial key. I don't see something similar being an unrealistic requirement for a future OS release. Right now, MSFT et al are just dangling carrots to get us to sign in using online profiles. Some, as noted, have long moved to using the stick.

This is exactly what they're doing, and we'll all lap it up.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,710
This makes sense. So if it even touches the internet at some point before account creation, it will insist on a MSFT account? I'll keep this in mind for the future.
This confirms my suspicion, the only reason you can do this is for devices like ATM's, factory controllers, measurement devices, medical equipment etc. that are never networked will still install. The next step will be to restrict a local account to only these types of installs. Like not network access w/o a Microsoft account, period. For those devices deliberately kept off networks it would be a feature, not a bug.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
1,005
I do not want anything cloud in any way shape or form. The first thing I do when I buy any device is to disable any and all cloud "features".

I want full 100% control at all times over when my device hits the network.

This is a non-negotiable to me. The day I have to sign up for a Microsoft account is the day I delete my windows partition.

My computer should never communicate with the network unless I explicitly tell it to.
More reason to go Linux...
 

Jim Kim

2[H]4U
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
3,913
I just setup a brand new dell laptop and following the standard setup, connect to wifi etc, I was able to get a local account. Might not have shipped with the latest microsoft service pack aka virus.
Wonders 10, the gift that keeps on keeping on.
Shore enuff, I setup another brand new Dell with HOME (the above had Pro), connected it to WiFi and there was no way I could get a local account (this POS didn't even have a wifi switch to turn off WiFi nor could I go backwards in setup and disconnect. I had to move far away from the router and power cycle the setup app.)
FML - not fuck my life instead fuck Microsoft losers.
 
Top