Windows 10 Budges A Bit As Masses Cling To Windows 7

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
I don't see how these numbers can remain virtually the same for the last few months while Microsoft is saying Windows 10 adoption has jumped by 80 million in the same time period.
 

Zepher

[H]ipster Replacement
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
19,554
People upgrading to lock in the key and then going back to Win 7/Win8 I guess.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
I don't see how these numbers can remain virtually the same for the last few months while Microsoft is saying Windows 10 adoption has jumped by 80 million in the same time period.

Two things. Xbox One and Windows 10 Mobile devices are counted as Windows 10 devices. The last time Microsoft gave an official number back in early October the Xbox One Windows 10 hadn't been released and neither had Windows 10 Mobile. So that's account for maybe 30 to 40 million devices. Secondly, these surveys are just at best approximations on the PC side. If you look at GS Stat Counter and Steam Survey for December, Windows 10 actually saw some acceleration in from the month prior. That as the first time that had happened since Windows 10 was launched and in the month of December that actually makes a good deal of sense. According to the Steam survey Windows 10 x64 is less than 4 points behind Windows 7 x64 and in the next couple of months will probably be the #1 Steam client.

I think at this point the only thing that's left for Windows 10 to become dominant is enterprise adoption. We won't know a lot about that story until later in the year and into 2017.
 

Trimlock

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
15,228
Until Enterprise contracts end on Win 7 we won't see a big push to Windows 10.

I know of a few massive contracts coming to an end in the next few months, I figure theres probably quite a bit more behind it.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,769
I hope Microsoft for the Enterprise edition has most if not all of the Telemetry turned off vice leaving it up to the IT department to manually configure what will be sent out. Having thousands of machines all trying to contact Microsoft may not go over well for Corporations or wondering what data is being sent out, or if the data stream was hacked into.

With many governments wanting a back door installed preventing total encryption to trace what ever is deemed dangerous may also worry some businesses as well for compromised data over witch hunts.

If Microsoft cannot secure the data I think this may indeed be a turning point for Businesses to finally consider Linux as a better option. I would not rule out Apple either if they continue to be for total privacy and uncompromising data security.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
I think it is interesting that according to the Steam hardware survey around a third of systems are Win 10 based ... so Windows 10 might be more popular with the early adopter and hardcore crowd (which is how upgrades typically go)
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,232
Personally Windows 10 is nothing but a nightmare. It bugs the crap out of me for installing updates. Which would be fine if I didn't have to stop everything I was doing and let my PC restart itself. Which Windows 10 does anyway, cause if I leave my PC alone for too long, it just installs updates and restarts it anyway. So far nothing important was left running on my PC.

Oh and the massive update recently decided to change all my application defaults to whatever Microsoft wants me to use. I'm sure all the Microsoft spying crap was enabled again but I'm just too tired of dealing with this crap to do it again.

Since I don't game much on my HTPC, I put Linux Mint 17.3 on it. It's much less of a headache for me to deal with than Windows 10. I would put it in my gaming PC but you can't run Fallout 4 on Linux, or for that matter just about any game.
 

OregonLAN

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Messages
2,627
I installed Windows 10 to get my free upgrade and reverted back to Windows 7 afterwards. Windows 10 is still a consumer designed OS. I don't see a huge adoption rate for businesses until their forced to upgade. By then, it will be windows 10.5 or whatever they choose for the name of the week...
 

RealBeast

Gawd
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
648
I see no reason to "upgrade" from a completely stable Windows 7 to 10.

New builds, perhaps, but not for machines that have been working well for years, just so that I am forced to take upgrades when MS wants.

I typically wait a bit as numerous updates over time have had issues as everyone knows.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
I see no reason to "upgrade" from a completely stable Windows 7 to 10.

New builds, perhaps, but not for machines that have been working well for years, just so that I am forced to take upgrades when MS wants.

I typically wait a bit as numerous updates over time have had issues as everyone knows.

Depends on the hardware and software you use or want to use. The base of my old i7 980x 3x 680 GTX 3x 1080p system had been around for 6 years now and started out with Windows 7. 10 is substantially better out of the box with multiple monitors.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,769
Plus Win 10 scales much better than Win 7, so for the 4K user it maybe more usable on more programs.

VR in Win 10 with DX12 should also give it an advantage but that is not here yet nor are the DX12 games. Nothing wrong with Win 7 if it works great for you.

You have more control now with Win 10 Pro 1511 on deferring updates: (It is easy once you do it like most things)
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...r-upgrades-and-updates-in-windows-10-pro.html
 

svet-am

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 6, 2003
Messages
5,146
I have tried it on some test machines and every time I do I find another new, different reason to avoid it.

The most recent is the parental controls. Microsoft *claims* that it lets parents filter apps out using the Family Safety portal. In reality, you cannot filter an app until it's been installed at least once. Also, Microsoft's own first-party applications cannot be filtered/removed.

For example, I set up an account to represent my 7-year old daughter. I did all the right things. I applied the appropriate filters for her age and see it represented appropriately in Family Safety. I logged into the Windows 10 workstation with the Microsoft account associated with her. Next, I wanted to remove the Microsoft News application from her account. It wouldn't let me do it. The reason I want to do it is because I don't want her seeing news stories about ISIS/terrorists/etc. since she's only 7-years old but can read at well above her grade level.

That's not really allowing me to tailor her experience if Microsoft makes its own apps immune to filtering.
 

Pieter3dnow

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
6,784
These numbers prove that Microsoft sucks at making operating systems the forced updates the millions of people that do not know how to bypass these features are upgrading not by choice.

To skew numbers like this means that you have an unmarketable product which can only be forced upon users rather then a clear upgrade to everyone.

Forcing spyware operating system this time around will work but how long will that work for a decade or more. I can see businesses swap to Linux if you can't deny or block apps/features or trust that they can be why still carry this parasite around?
 

JustReason

razor1 is my Lover
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
2,483
Actually looked at the Steam survey last night and win 10 and win 7 were virtually tied. So I am not so sure this is some fluffing of numbers.

Actually I was also surprised that AMD had 23% of the CPU ownership on steam. Was expecting lower.
 

kbrickley

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
7,514
These numbers prove that Microsoft sucks at making operating systems the forced updates the millions of people that do not know how to bypass these features are upgrading not by choice.

To skew numbers like this means that you have an unmarketable product which can only be forced upon users rather then a clear upgrade to everyone.

Forcing spyware operating system this time around will work but how long will that work for a decade or more. I can see businesses swap to Linux if you can't deny or block apps/features or trust that they can be why still carry this parasite around?

Or it could also just mean that computers have become a commodity device (which also matches up with the falling sales numbers) ... people only upgrade software on commodities when the device forces them to (Blu Ray, Roku, etc) ... given a choice their will do nothing to their computers until they break ... except for gamers (DX12) there is no compelling reason for most users to upgrade unless they are on one of the really old versions of Windows (and this seems to match up with the Steam Hardware survey where Win 10 is equal to Win 7)
 

NickS

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
1,953
Until Enterprise contracts end on Win 7 we won't see a big push to Windows 10.

I know of a few massive contracts coming to an end in the next few months, I figure theres probably quite a bit more behind it.

I'm actually shocked but it appears as if a lot of the machines at my workplace (small company, <100 employees) have been upgraded from XP straight to 10. Refreshing at the least.
 

nb14

Weaksauce
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
110
I know alot of people here hate windows 10, but i know really know why. Its pretty amazing tbf. Yeah Microsoft have a few fixes they need to do but hey, that was the case wen windows 7 came out as well.
 

dgingeri

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
2,830
I completely do not understand some people. There are still 2.76% that haven't moved from Windows 8 to 8.1 even. I mean, that's such a minor update, and its free, and it fixes a whole lot of user problems without messing anything up. Why are they avoiding it?

I can sort of understand the lack of moving from Win7 to Win10. There are some programs that won't work under Win10. Some of those are corporate programs that can't be modified to work under Win10, or are currently being modified. Still, too many IT managers do stupid things with custom programs or firing or laying off people who made the custom programs. That just boxes them in, leading the company into a dead end. It's bad management, and the managers who do such shouldn't be managers.

Last, but not least, there's the hardware makers who don't update their drivers. I've seen plenty of times when IT managers have to pay a ton of unexpected money to replace hardware that wouldn't work with a new OS, yet they go and buy from the same hardware maker all over again. (Hello, Minolta!) They stay loyal to the hardware maker for no freaking reason. There are manufacturers who better support the hardware, have more durable and reliable hardware, perform faster, overall better hardware on every single level. Yet, these idiot managers keep buying the same crap. (I worked one place where they bought a certain series of IP phones with a special addon for Outlook that was buggy as all hell. Twice on updates, we had to go through every single computer in the company and manually remove the old version, including hacking things out of the registry, and install the new one because the idiot developers couldn't write a decent installer. Yet, they kept the contract for 4 more years instead of moving to a different manufacturer. It would have been less labor and cost to move to a different brand than maintain the old.) These IT managers who do this need to be smacked upside the head.
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,660
It's the same thing when every new OS is out. And the same people saying the same things. In a few years when Microsoft release their next windows version the same people will be saying how crap it is and how much they like windows 10.
 

ecktt

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Messages
415
Reasons to hate windows 10:
1. Sound is buggie esp with creative cards. We could blame the drivers here but would they be practically the same as windows 8+7+vista?
2. The start menu is ...meh but better than win 8/.1

Other than that, Windows 10 is pretty solid with baked in Hyper-V.

Most people are just afraid to upgrade because everything just works with Windows 7.
Many people thought the free upgrade might be a virus and did not want to start the upgrade process.

I've only encounter 1 person would didn' want to upgrade because he thought his laptop was to old. Turns out he was sort of right as the video card only had drivers up to Vista....which still worked with some massaging. Ironically Windows 10 had the "correct" sound driver but it didn't work. Had to roll him back to default HD audio driver.
 

TechLarry

RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
30,483
They didn't mention XP still has more units in use LOL
 

Quartz-1

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
4,257
There's no business reason for a business - especially a large business - to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,868
I know alot of people here hate windows 10, but i know really know why. Its pretty amazing tbf. Yeah Microsoft have a few fixes they need to do but hey, that was the case wen windows 7 came out as well.

Did you actually look into the why? If you did, then you'd have a pretty good idea why. Stop acting like the all knowing guru, when you're clearly completely clueless.

I guess you never heard of the privacy concerns, and how MS is playing dumb on the subject.

W10 is a constant work in progress, there will never be a finalized version of it Microsoft claims. They can remove features or add new ones at a whim at any time, without being able to opt out of it, because of the forced updates.
They claim the telemetry is to provide better support. But that's only true because they fired 2/3 of their QA staff, and use the user base to test every update. If it breaks something? Tough luck.

And of top of that the UI is an inconsistent mess. They can't settle on a single design or style for the menus and controls trough the included apps and tools. There are multiple tools for a singular task, all of which are incomplete. And the included apps offer less functionality than the ones they're supposed to replace. It's not an upgrade, it's a house of horrors for the power user, whose concern is productivity, ease of use, and customization.
 
D

Deleted member 126051

Guest
It's not an upgrade, it's a house of horrors for the power user, whose concern is productivity, ease of use, and customization.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on it too.
 

krotch

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
4,509
I hope Microsoft for the Enterprise edition has most if not all of the Telemetry turned off vice leaving it up to the IT department to manually configure what will be sent out. Having thousands of machines all trying to contact Microsoft may not go over well for Corporations or wondering what data is being sent

MS has stated that you can turn it off on the Enterprise versions.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/09/28/privacy-and-windows-10/

Our enterprise feature updates later this year will enable enterprise customers the option to disable this telemetry, but we strongly recommend against this.
 

HoffY

Gawd
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
940
Did you actually look into the why? If you did, then you'd have a pretty good idea why. Stop acting like the all knowing guru, when you're clearly completely clueless.

I guess you never heard of the privacy concerns, and how MS is playing dumb on the subject.

W10 is a constant work in progress, there will never be a finalized version of it Microsoft claims. They can remove features or add new ones at a whim at any time, without being able to opt out of it, because of the forced updates.
They claim the telemetry is to provide better support. But that's only true because they fired 2/3 of their QA staff, and use the user base to test every update. If it breaks something? Tough luck.

And of top of that the UI is an inconsistent mess. They can't settle on a single design or style for the menus and controls trough the included apps and tools. There are multiple tools for a singular task, all of which are incomplete. And the included apps offer less functionality than the ones they're supposed to replace. It's not an upgrade, it's a house of horrors for the power user, whose concern is productivity, ease of use, and customization.

quoted for damn truth!
 

natos

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
442
I completely do not understand some people. There are still 2.76% that haven't moved from Windows 8 to 8.1 even. I mean, that's such a minor update, and its free, and it fixes a whole lot of user problems without messing anything up. Why are they avoiding it?

Most likely they don't know and are un-educated, and don't care. Those are the un-educated grandparents, mothers, etc that simply are still just connecting to AOL to check their email.
 

ccmfreak2

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
318
My wife has been on Win 10 for several months. Her comp came with Windows 8.1, which she did not find to be a positive UX, so she was quick to have me upgrade her to Win 10 this past fall.

I just made the upgrade this past week from 7 to 10. I didn't feel a need to upgrade any sooner, let alone desired to set aside the time to do so. When you have a year, your current OS is being supported and lacks issues, and there's complaints and bugs in the wild of the new OS, it take a bit to change one's lack of desire to upgrade at this moment. That desire changed for me when I received a USB adapter allowing me to connect xbox one wireless controllers to my PC, along with two wireless xbox one controllers. (Yay Christmas gifts!) The MS-developed adapter only worked on Win 10. Thus, Windows 7 no longer fulfilled all my needs.

You can't tell they had no way to make this adapter work in Win 7. Well done MS marketing for that one!
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,827
Haters aside, the OS is going to take over the consumer desktop before it hits 1 year. Probably be there on Steam within a month or 2. Is it perfect? No. Is 7 perfect? no. I've had patches screw things up with 7 for years. Normally it's minor, but not always. 10 is about the same for me. All the UI complaints just don't ring true for me. I can easily move back and forth between 7 and 10 (or 8 for that matter) without much thought.
 

HvyMtl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
1,730
I completely do not understand some people. There are still 2.76% that haven't moved from Windows 8 to 8.1 even. I mean, that's such a minor update, and its free, and it fixes a whole lot of user problems without messing anything up. Why are they avoiding it? ...

It's simple, really. People get their computer set up like they like it, and then leave it be. Or, they simply did not understand they could update it...
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,827
It's simple, really. People get their computer set up like they like it, and then leave it be. Or, they simply did not understand they could update it...

Well that can't be it, because everyone says that 10 installs itself automatically ;)
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Haters aside, the OS is going to take over the consumer desktop before it hits 1 year. Probably be there on Steam within a month or 2. Is it perfect? No. Is 7 perfect? no. I've had patches screw things up with 7 for years. Normally it's minor, but not always. 10 is about the same for me. All the UI complaints just don't ring true for me. I can easily move back and forth between 7 and 10 (or 8 for that matter) without much thought.

I think the Steam Survey is most interesting. As forced as this upgrade is, it looks like gamers are pretty happy with it otherwise I don't see how it's growth on Steam would be fast as to be on pace to displace 7 this quickly. I guess the promise of DX 12 is probably a big reason even without current games. But as a gaming OS it's been running very well for me even on my very outdated gaming rig.

In any case, we're almost past the "10 will be another flop like 8" stage. Almost being we still need to see how well 10 gets adopted in the enterprise. Once our deployments start planned for this summer, a mega bank, the picture should become fairly clear. If we can do a successful deployment with it, almost anyone should be good to go. There's not an business on Earth that could have more privacy concerns than us.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Well that can't be it, because everyone says that 10 installs itself automatically ;)

I've not seen or heard about that personally. Yeah, the nag screen is there and it's "encouraged" some people I know to upgrade. They didn't give it much thought, pressed the button, came back an hour or two later and they were good to go. That's really the way it needs to work for most average people.
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,827
I've not seen or heard about that personally. Yeah, the nag screen is there and it's "encouraged" some people I know to upgrade. They didn't give it much thought, pressed the button, came back an hour or two later and they were good to go. That's really the way it needs to work for most average people.

I know, but many in these threads say it's getting marketshare by forced updates/automatic updates. Then again, maybe you don't get to upgrade from 8 to 10 directly. I went directly to 8.1 earlier this year.
 

snowcrash

Gawd
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
712
Did a clean install using W8.1 key. No issues. The pages and pages of privacy settings I needed to turn off though was extremely annoying. I stopped after turning off key important ones. Like all the previous versions of Windows, it just works for me. I should be paid by MS to help them sell their OS.
 

HvyMtl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
1,730
Nilepez, in the near future, the 10 update will become a "recommended" update for all 7&8 users. A huge majority of the users of 7&8 have their Windows Update set to "give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates." When Microsoft sets this, there will be a lot of people forced to update, and not know why...
 

HvyMtl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
1,730
Oh, and in addition, Microsoft "accidentally" set the 10 update to recommended, for a 24ish hour period, which did, in fact, force the update on those who were using Windows Update at the time frame.
Made a mess, and a huge ruckus. I expect Microsoft did this to see what the reaction would be.

If they think it was not bad (and all indications show they did not) Microsoft will be following through first quarter 2016...
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,827
Nilepez, in the near future, the 10 update will become a "recommended" update for all 7&8 users. A huge majority of the users of 7&8 have their Windows Update set to "give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates." When Microsoft sets this, there will be a lot of people forced to update, and not know why...

Even if they didn't do that, it'd overtake 7 on Steam within months and home users this year.
I'm not a fan of forcing the upgrade, but there is a benefit:
by forcing the upgrade, the key is entered as a w10 key, so even if they revert to 7 (a very fast/easy process, I might add) there key will be valid for 10 after July of 16.
 

andrewaggb

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
438
The windows 8 (not 8.1) numbers make me sad. I was pretty happy with 8.1 in the end. I'm using 10 now, but 8.1 was still the fastest and most stable version of windows I've ever used.

10's been ok though. I had a few quirks at first but most of them were fixed along the way.
 
Top