WinDAS White Point Balance guide for Sony Trinitron CRTs

alanm6o9

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hey guys I have a gdm 5410 that needs g2 correction can anyone help me? I got it hooked up through usb to ttl adapter. Ive also registered the file that allows me to choose my model, but I'm getting "Can't connect the monitor. check bus line and connection" on windas. Also in device manager, it doesn't show under "Ports(com)" its under "other". do I need a new adapter? I have this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D6LLX19/
 

alanm6o9

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I installed the drivers but I couldn't get it show up in virtual machine (windows 7) which sucks. I have it showing in my windows 10 as COM 3 and I tried to run windas on there, but I got the same error message :Can't connect the monitor. check bus line and connection. I made sure that COM 3 is selected in the config section of windas, so I don't think thats going to work on win10. this is what the pins on the gdm 5410 look like by the way: They aren't labeled so if anyone knows the order that'd be nice just to be sure. Ive been running them TX RX GND 5v (top to bottom) ive tried switching tx and rx. thanks again
 
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alanm6o9

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thanks bro. Im in this bitch! just saved my backup file and im goin in baby. youre the man ! wish me luck
 
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alanm6o9

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Fixed my g2 issues! really happy about that <3 Im going to enjoy my monitor for the night and go back at it tomorrow. That is, assuming that I can fix this geometry issue I have using windas. The far right side of my screen is shifted downward like 1/2 cm and i have a bit of bowing upward in middle. Can I fix that using windas? Either way im so happy . thanks so much for the help! I dont think i wouldve been able to figure that out without ya, spacediver
:D
 
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spacediver

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i'm not very fluent with geometry adjustments, but I think you can do most stuff with the OSD. WinDAS geometry adjustments is quite involved and tedious.
 

alanm6o9

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It's cool no worries! I dont mind tedious, but I'm glad ya told me. I'll do some more research before I dive into that. I have it looking pretty decent with the OSD but I can't fix the middle where it's bowed upwards. unfortunately this crt got dropped pretty badly in shipping and I'm guessing that's how the geometry was shifted slightly
 
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aeliusg

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How one does setup contrast at the end of each preset, which pattern is used and how to properly determine it?
Hey there, despite having done a WPB only recently I've already forgotten the precise details to this step. AFAIK if you meet the luminance targets on all the steps (high and low) you will be fine. It asks to track color accuracy with brightness on full white to confirm that, but contrast I believe is set only with the full black or gray images. I've attached everything that I used recently for that so it should be all you need (besides the appropriately set up version of WinDAS and your equivalent of a parallel port).
 

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D_San

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Does anyone know whether this colorimeter will work with any monitor, and not just NEC's?

https://www.adorama.com/ncmdsvsnsor3.html?utm_source=adl-gbase-p

I know it's also made by X-Rite and is pretty much an i1 Display Pro, but wanted to see if anyone else has used it with their monitor.

Edit: I was able to get an iDisplayPro and complete a WPB. Pretty happy with the results, especially for my first try. TY spacediver for making this guide and all the other helpful posts!

1625727720688.png


This is without fine tuning my LUT which is my next step.
 
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brownvim

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Here’s a link to a video of what happens when I turn the monitor on:



Camera doesn’t capture it too well as there’s a lot of flicker but it’s green most of the time like the picture attached.

At 1:17 the flickering stops and a I get a solid green tinted picture.

This green tint lasts for upto 30mins, gradually fading to get back to normal black levels.


Anyone got an idea which capacitors are worth replacing to get my monitor working again? Maybe the ones on the power board?

If you take a look at my old post, my monitor would have a dodgy boot up and be fine after it maybe got warm? Same issue but now it never stays on, i get a picture for a split second thats bright green and it auto shuts off.
 

XoR_

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Anyone got an idea which capacitors are worth replacing to get my monitor working again? Maybe the ones on the power board?

If you take a look at my old post, my monitor would have a dodgy boot up and be fine after it maybe got warm? Same issue but now it never stays on, i get a picture for a split second thats bright green and it auto shuts off.
Have you tried lowering G2 voltage? It seems crazy high on your monitor.
Maybe it got so high it starts acting up and it is enough to lower it to normal level?
 

spacediver

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I've had a couple units that started to give me an issue that might be related. When I turned on the screen it would become very bright (red in my case), and I'd need to turn it off and then on again to stop it. Looks like when you turned it off and then back on it didn't get as bright, so may be related to the same thing I experienced.

I ended up just turning it off and then back on, every time I wanted to turn on the monitor. Sometimes I'd have to turn it off and on twice.

Dunno if it's fixable without a tube restorer, and whether even that would help.
 

jbltecnicspro

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How sure are you that it’s the tube? I would suspect some of the electronics going bad. Some of these monitors are now over 20 years old. And no offense to Sony, but they weren’t the robust monitors that the BVM’s were.
 

brownvim

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Have you tried lowering G2 voltage? It seems crazy high on your monitor.
Maybe it got so high it starts acting up and it is enough to lower it to normal level?
Yes, I tried this when I did windas, same issue and now it never stays on for me to calibrate anyway.

The picture always would settle and look great after 30mins.
 

brownvim

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I have shown it to 2 people who repaired CRTs years ago and they think the tube has gone.

Is it the end of the road and I have to now just throw it away?
 

XoR_

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I have shown it to 2 people who repaired CRTs years ago and they think the tube has gone.
Given The picture always would settle and look great after 30mins status how is has the tube "gone"? :confused:
Tube? The last thing that your video shows is tube going bad.

Yes, I tried this when I did windas, same issue and now it never stays on for me to calibrate anyway.
I did not ask about 'calibration' but changing one byte that controls G2 voltage. Did you try that?

Is it the end of the road and I have to now just throw it away?
Yeah, throw away the best CRT monitor because it has some minor issues for half an hour after you turn it on...

Didn't you maybe think that there are people who would like to have this monitor even if it is broken?
Ask guy from YT channel Retro Tech, he repairs CRT's and makes videos out of it. Video about FW900 would be a hit.

If this was my monitor I would repair it no matter what. Even including using electronics from 21" Trinitron. Just because no one tried it doesn't mean it would not work.
 

brownvim

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I have tried getting it repaired, two guys said it was the tube. Maybe they being lazy? They said they physically opened it up and couldn’t figure it out.

It does not stay switched on anymore, after 30mins in that older video it would be fine after the initial green flickering. Right now it never gets past the green flickering and auto switches off.

This one byte in the G2 u mentioned, I can’t edit anything right now as the monitor never stays on long enough for me to edit the byte. I did play around with the G2 before with no effect when the monitor stayed on in the past so it’s not that.

Hope things are more clearer, I’m trying my best to fix this amazing monitor. I live in the UK, England so can’t ship it too far to repair.
 
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gamuted

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Hey, spacediver :) Super cool guide, thanks for writing this! I just wonder if you have any experience/knowledge with/about the new ColorChecker series from calibrite? It seems that is the continuation of the iDisplayPro that has been discontinued. Cheers! :)
 

gamuted

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One more question: I see that there are some slight differences in IrfanView between win7 and win10, now while I am setting it up. In win10 I have a checkbox for "Vertical center" which is checked by default - I suppose this should stay checked? Even though win7 doesn't seem to have this option.
 

gamuted

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...and another one :p It seems the link to test patterns and pdf of the guide is not loading for me :/
 

spacediver

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Hey gamuted, glad you came across the guide :)

1) No experience with the ColorChecker series - but it looks like the same piece of hardware. I haven't kept up with the latest branding and iterations of the colorimeter, and not sure whether it's better to get OEM or not.
2) Not sure about the new option in irfan view - doesn't sound like it would affect anything to do with color calibration, so don't sweat that one :)
3) Check the link in my signature - lemme know if you have issues - if so, I'll try to reupload somewhere
 

gamuted

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Hey gamuted, glad you came across the guide :)

1) No experience with the ColorChecker series - but it looks like the same piece of hardware. I haven't kept up with the latest branding and iterations of the colorimeter, and not sure whether it's better to get OEM or not.
2) Not sure about the new option in irfan view - doesn't sound like it would affect anything to do with color calibration, so don't sweat that one :)
3) Check the link in my signature - lemme know if you have issues - if so, I'll try to reupload somewhere
Thank you!! :) Link worked perfectly!
I bought an old MonacoOptix DTP-94 at ebay, and I can't get it soon enough to start the process! =D
..I wonder though.. could you theoretically do the winDAS White Point Adjustment without colorimeter?
Cheers!
 

spacediver

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Nice, DTP-94 is good, but if you want more precision with black levels, the i1d3 will serve you better.
without colorimeter...
I suppose theoretically you could match chromaticity of the screen with a physical reference patch, but I think you'd need standard illumination to render the patch correctly. And adjusting luminance would be impossible without a reference level of brightness - so you'd need a source of illumination that you could adjust to different luminances and then match what you see on screen with the intensity of the reference light.

I suppose you could try to eye ball the chromaticity - so long as you chose a consistent chromaticity it may be ok - i think having a consistent chromaticity across the gray scale axis is more important than what that chromaticity is (within limits).
And you could eye ball the luminance too I suppose.

Wouldn't recommend though.
 

gamuted

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Right. When searching for i1d3 or idisplay pro, I only get one on Amazon for 500$. I think it's discontinued and replaced by "colorchecker" series. Of which the Pro is on Amazon for 279$ and colorchecker display "regular" for 169$.

I would suppose both of these would be a wiser purchase than the 500$ xrite i1? :)
 

spacediver

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Read this:

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/t...e-i1-display-pro-plus-now-in-2022/#post-35082

I believe the colorchecker display will work with argyll, but will be 4-5 times slower

This might be what you want (but not sure, do your research)

https://store.portrait.com/meters/oem-i1display-with-add-ons.html


This may also set you on the right path:

https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-418#post-1044361005

from 2019, but the avs forum thread that is linked inside went along till the end of last year:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/x-...lutions-for-photographers-filmmakers.3090510/ (they discuss colorchecker series in that thread too i think)

Also see this post:

https://www.lightillusion.com/forum...ts-various-versions-including-retail-752.html

You definitely don't need the i1 - I do have one that I purchased second hand years ago, but that was because I wanted to take some spectral measurements.
 

gamuted

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Read this:

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/t...e-i1-display-pro-plus-now-in-2022/#post-35082

I believe the colorchecker display will work with argyll, but will be 4-5 times slower

This might be what you want (but not sure, do your research)

https://store.portrait.com/meters/oem-i1display-with-add-ons.html


This may also set you on the right path:

https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-418#post-1044361005

from 2019, but the avs forum thread that is linked inside went along till the end of last year:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/x-...lutions-for-photographers-filmmakers.3090510/ (they discuss colorchecker series in that thread too i think)

Also see this post:

https://www.lightillusion.com/forum...ts-various-versions-including-retail-752.html

You definitely don't need the i1 - I do have one that I purchased second hand years ago, but that was because I wanted to take some spectral measurements.
Ohh right, the Argyll program is specifically made for the xrite version! I see.
Oy, thank you very much for all these links, I'll be sure to check them all out!

You definitely don't need the i1 - I do have one that I purchased second hand years ago, but that was because I wanted to take some spectral measurements.
Right right, I see :) I will definitively do the White Point Balance with the DTP-94 to start with. But if that works out all right, and I am able to complete the setup and get better colors, it will be intriguing to know that I can get even better blacks :)

Regardless, thank you very much for all the helpful answers, and for writinf this guide! :)
 

gamuted

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Ohh right, the Argyll program is specifically made for the xrite version! I see.
Hah... I see now that is not case :p

It seems to me... from the comment you linked to, that the difference between Pro and non-Pro is the 5x speed. But not between X-rite and ColorChecker?
 

spacediver

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Yea you might be right - I missed that nuance - that the colorchecker seems to come in pro and non pro versions. And yes, I think the firmware limitation is between pro and non pro models (regardless of branding) - but not 100% sure.
I also think Argyll will work with any version (no matter the brand or no matter whether it's pro or not) - I think that's discussed in one of the threads, but again, not 100% sure - be sure to do your due diligence :)
 

gamuted

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Right right. I think that's the situation. And if it is, the ColorChecker would be a better choice since it's newer and more readily available from resellers. Whether to go for pro, non-pro or plus though... that's a different question. It's ofc tempting to go for the Plus with 2000 nits, but I have no idea how much of a difference that makes 😅
But one thing that do kinda matter to me, is that it seems ColorChecker is only for windows 8 and upwards. I am *really* enjoying how my windows 7 laptop handles winDAS and don't really want to "upgrade" to 8 or 10. On the other hand... you could argue the complete opposite and say that it's only logic to go for the newer software and just leave windows 7 all together.
You were using windows 7 at the time of writing this guide, right? How did the Xrite software come in to play?
 

gamuted

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Perhaps it's even possible to use the new ColorChecker, without ColorChecker's software at all?
 

spacediver

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Argyll CMS has drivers that should work - if you're interested in using Xrite/Calibrate software, then I don't think you'll be able to do so with OEM version. But if you're just interested in using Argyll, HCFR, or DisplayCAL (which I believe all use Argyll as the back end), then you'll be fine.
The guide only relies on Argyll and HCFR.
 

gamuted

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I'm done with the WPB (and the difference from before is !WILD! =D) - but... I'm stuck on trying to install Argyll drivers on Windows 10 to fine tune LUT. If I go to Device Manager and select the DTP94, and update drivers and browse for driver and select "Argyll_V2.3.1\usb" I get Windows found drivers for your device but encountered an error while attempting to install.
Now... I'm fairly certain I have followed Argyll's guide to "configure the %PATH% environment variable to give access to the executables from command line environment." correctly. Not 100% though, since this was a slightly different approach on windows 10 than on windows 7. I don't remember exactly what I did on windows 7, I don't think I did anything other.

Anybody know what it is I am missing here? :/

Regardless: Thanks again spacediver! This is awesome already! =D
 

gamuted

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hmm, been a long time since I've used DTP-94.
This may be relevant:

https://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/With-latest-rev-of-ArgyllCMS-DTP94-driver-not-loading,2

(graeme gill is the creator of Argyll - he's a fairly accessible person so if you post on the argyllcms mailing list you'll likely get some speedy help).

congrats on your WPB - glad it went well :)
Thanks! :)

So I see someone else had this problem back in 2017 with no apparent solution. Strange :/

Anyway... I followed the guide despite the drivers not installed (on the Argyll site it says you don't actually need USB driver for some devices, so I'd thought I just check just in case).

And it seemed to be working (as in it looked like there was communication with the colorimeter (DTP94) and the program), but the readings were super bad (even though I was super slow and steady during the WPB).

During the gray scale measure, I got dE ranging from 0.5 to 4.2 to 0.3 to 3.4 etc. Basically all over the place.
But during the WPB process I was going very slow and steady and I think the dE never got over 0.3 ever (as well as Y (luminance) was on point), and my colors look stunning.
I wonder if this happens because I haven't installed Argyll drivers properly, or if there something else I am missing. I know you probably don't know :) I'm just writing this down in case someone else might wander in here with a similar situation.

For now I just use your old method of setting the GPU driver gamma slider to somewhere around +1.40 (I don't know if that is supposed to be 2.4, but it looks fine :)
 

spacediver

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if you get the i1d3, this issue should sort itself out, but glad you got the monitor to a good place.
 

gamuted

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if you get the i1d3, this issue should sort itself out, but glad you got the monitor to a good place.
Right!
I overlooked something in the link you gave me. I didn't realize the thread continued. So Graeme says you absolutely need to install the drivers and points to the Argyll installation guide.

So I guess I just need to follow that :) If I only could manage to do that haha :p

It says Settings -> Power , but already there I'm off cause I have no settings that's named "Power", I looked around at places that seem similar, but no cigar yet!
 

gamuted

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Right!
I overlooked something in the link you gave me. I didn't realize the thread continued. So Graeme says you absolutely need to install the drivers and points to the Argyll installation guide.

So I guess I just need to follow that :) If I only could manage to do that haha :p

It says Settings -> Power , but already there I'm off cause I have no settings that's named "Power", I looked around at places that seem similar, but no cigar yet!
Okay I got it :p I just searched for restart in Settings. And in the first result "Change advanced startup option" you can click on "Restart now" where it says Advanced startup!

After that point, I could follow Argyll's own guide without any differences :)
 
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