Will nvidia EVER fix the shimmering problem?

Netrat33

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AutomaticErik said:
I must be blind or something because I don't notice anything unusual in the videos posted. Can someone enlighten me?


I think this is one of the reasons it'll never be fixed.


in the videos, notice when moving the background is "wavy" looks like a lot of noise?
Take a look at the pictures I have in the link a couple of posts up, I even circle some spots on how things go clear to unclear.
 

spyderz

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okra said:
went from a 9700 to 6800GT here, used the 61.77 drivers at first - noticed the mipmap "shimmering" right away - "solved" it by cranking everything up and using 8x AA and 16x AF.

The IQ of the 6x.xx drivers is definitely sub-par compared straight across to the Catalysts.

Game I notice it in is BF1942/DC.
Does this even with AF & AA off @ 1600x1200 resolution.

65.73 drivers make the shimmering less evident, but it's still there.
They also don't bench as fast as the 61.77 drivers do.

I grow weary of IQ for speed tradeoffs, especially when I have to use a beta driver to get better IQ, because Nvidia doesn't have an official driver out yet past 61.77.

Even running 1024x768, 8xAA, 16xAF, I get odd stuff with textures in the middle section of the screen - again leading back to the mipmap implementation argument.

Anyone have the link to the Omega drivers that supposedly fix this, mentioned a few posts ago? I'd like to try it out.

I'm also going to check whether this changes any using DC_Final instead of DC .7, but I doubt it will be any different.

And for all the folks that still persist in denigrating posters with this problem and insisting the problem doesn't exist - piss off!

sorry i didn't post the link but there website is down at this time but here's were can get them just click on the nvidia drivers tab www.omegacorner.com
 

Geno-san

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I had this bug on my new system for a little while. I was able to correct it by increasing the vcore. Even when I was not overclocked the shimmering was present. Here are the specs of my system, I hope this helps:

MSI K8N Platinum
90nm Athlon 64 3200+ @ 2.5ghz 250mhz fsb HTT x4 @ 1.65v
BFG 6800GT OC 400/1000
1GB PC3200 mem 2-3-6-3 1T
 

lar1r

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6800 GT and CS: Source = shimmering and what appears to be bilinear AF on the ground.
Try loading up the Italy map - and just walk around - its really apparent.

Driver 66.81 and 4xAA and 8xAF
 

okra

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thanks very much for the linkage on those omegas, gonna try those out tonight and see what happens.

And, just so I can sleep peacefully - people ARE seeing the same thing on x800's and x800xt's, correct?
It's NOT just an nvidia problem, correct?

Because if it IS just an nvidia problem, it doesn't bode well for the future of me & nvidia.

Not trying to start a flamewar, just wondering which company really deserves my $400.

Anyone have anything to confirm/deny this?
 

joecuddles

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It seems some people with x800's are having the same issue, it doesn't seem as numerous in my opinion, and I certainly haven't noticed anything personally.

I'd be super pissed if I spent this amount on a card and had the shimmer effect, it looks horrible :(
 

spyderz

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okra said:
thanks very much for the linkage on those omegas, gonna try those out tonight and see what happens.

And, just so I can sleep peacefully - people ARE seeing the same thing on x800's and x800xt's, correct?
It's NOT just an nvidia problem, correct?

Because if it IS just an nvidia problem, it doesn't bode well for the future of me & nvidia.

Not trying to start a flamewar, just wondering which company really deserves my $400.

Anyone have anything to confirm/deny this?

if they do resolve the problem please post and let us know, thanks
 

Cali3350

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Ill try the Omegas later tonight aswell. Anyway WooT! For front page news.

If this isnt fixed by the time HL2 is out :mad:

Ive just contacted BFG about it, awaiting their response. If enough people start bitching to them about it Nvidia will HAVE to listen.
 

HellBat

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I installed the beta 66.81's when I got my BFG 6800GT OC a couple of weeks ago and noticed the shimmering in Far Cry, Planetside, and IL2FB. It was especially noticable in IL2FB on maps featuring rivers and lakes, with the shimmering being extreme around the waters edge. It was evident in 2x, 2Q, and 4x aa modes. Strangely, using Rivatuner and going to 4x9 tap would eliminate it. Installing the new 66.81 WHQL drivers yesterday really cleared things up for me. I'd suggest people having a problem give them a try.

I realize the build number is the same but it did make a difference for me. One thing I did notice is I did seem to lose a few fps but I haven't fired up FRAPS to confirm it.
 

Ryan7968

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AutomaticErik said:
I must be blind or something because I don't notice anything unusual in the videos posted. Can someone enlighten me?

Go to message #63 in this thread, and watch the Battlefield1942 clip again. If you can't see the weirdness on the ground, then maybe your eyes are going out.

I have seen the shimmering/sparkling whatever you want to call it. Using a 6800GT and A64 3000+, NForce3. I can say that I have not seen this happen in any OpenGL game, I have seen it though in Madden 2005, GTA Vice City, World of Warcraft(although the latest patches of WoW made it go away, giving me hope that game developers can alleviate the problem on newer games.) I don't own BF1942 but it sounds as though that is a bad offender. I clearly see it in the video from post $63.

Now obviosuly in some games it isn't as bad as others, but when people spend this much money on a video card it shouldn't even be a problem. Maybe back in 1999 but not in 2004. I'm about sick of these optimizations going on between ATI and Nvidia. HardOCP here talks about reviewing video cards in different ways, looking less at benchmarks. They should think about looking into this problem, if anyone can draw enough attention to this problem its HardOCP.
 

Impulse

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Is it particular to GTs or is there mention of Ultra and "vanilla" owners suffering the same problem? Didn't pay attention to it as I read the thread but I do remember at 'least one Ultra owner saying he didn't see it (or notice it) as well as someone sayng higher vcore helped... Power related maybr? Seems far fetched, shot in the dark...
 

rEliX

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I recently upgraded to a BFG6800 GT from a 9800pro. I have not seen the problem at all on my 6800. Yet!! But reading all the posts made me think of a similar problem I had on my 9800pro. I changed all the settings I could and then some and still could not get the moire effect to go away. It was very random and only affected certain games, and certain textures. I ended up fixing the problem both by using the highest Vsync setting my monitor could handle. I think it was 85Hz. And turning ON Vsync for the game in question. It seemed that the problem was caused by some discreet monitor timing problem between my vertical refresh rate and the video card's refresh rate. By turning on vsync it cleared up the walking textures. Although at the time I also thought it might just be an optical illusion created by the vertices of light and dark lines in a repeated pattern???? Could have just been high LOL. In all the posts regarding this problem, I have not seen any mention of anyone varying thier Vsync option. Also maybe degauss your monitor if it has the option, and add an RFI loop isolator to your monitor's signal cable. Most of them already have this (kinda looks like a plastic donut around the cord close to where the DB-15 connector is. Maybe these will help. Someone with the problem try it out and post your results as I am not having the problem with my 6800.
 

Ozymandias

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I think with BF1942 it's more of a game engine problem. I've had the ground textures slightly shimmering with both my old Ti4200 and a 9600XT, but it's never really bothered me.

To the thread starter:
It's interesting that you expect nvidia to fix a problem, that, in many cases can't even be reproduced. If only some people have it in some games at only certain settings with certain driver sets, exactly how long do you think it would take a team with other things to do to fix something as complicated as this? Hell, it might not even be a nvidia problem, which makes it even harder to troubleshoot. All that I'm saying is, give ATi and nVidia more time, and if they can't fix it completely, learn to live with it.
 

Longinus00

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Is this what everyone consideres the shimmering problem? Is this what everyone is talking about? This is what looks the closest to the pictures in the other forums posted awhile back of CS:S that I could replicate at this time.

4xAF
Doom3_2004-10-21_11-35-02-23.jpg



8xAF
Doom3_2004-10-21_11-35-07-93.jpg



no AF
Doom3_2004-10-21_11-35-22-59.jpg
 

Impulse

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Longinus00 said:
Is this what everyone consideres the shimmering problem? Is this what everyone is talking about? This is what looks the closest to the pictures in the other forums posted awhile back of CS:S that I could replicate at this time.

The CS pic is not exactly the problem the original thread author was complaining about, 'least not as far as I understand it. It may be related but it's not the type of "shimmering" he describes (tho it's what I usually associate with shimmering). The CS pic, if it's the one I saw a thread about earlier, is simply a problem at the seam of two textures and I've seen it in a number of cards.

To recognize what Cali is describing you really have to download the short videos he's posted links to as I don't think it's something you could detect in a static screenshot. I guess you could say it's a sort of current flicker along lines or something, hard to describe... But if you pay attention it's visible in the videos, particulary the BF1942 ones.

I couldn't really detect it very well in the Painkiller one that was posted but it was pretty short and it was in a smaller area (I think), it was pretty obvious in the BF one (look at the center of the screen, by the crosshairs). I don't think it makes the game unplayable at all unless you're doing a lot of sniping and slow moving (could get annoying then), but it certainly shouldn't be present in a brand spakin' new card.

It does seem like a tough one for the driver team to tackle tho.
 

aldamon

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The problem is still there in the Omega drivers. Here's a lovely shot in Pain Killer of a staircase. Isn't moire grand? Combine it with all of the shimmering pixels and there are problems. Now I see it in CS:S :(

painmoire.jpg
 

w00t69

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rancor said:
? what the hell are you talking about and stop thread crapping, I'm saying you don't shouldn't say not to buy one over the other if performance is similiar go with which ever one, both cards have some issues its not like ATi is free of its problems either.

I'm gonna have to agree with emret. I just read this entire thread, and you came in here with nothing, absolutely nothing, productive to say about the nvidia problem. YES, it is a problem. Else there wouldn't be so many mass amounts of threads about it on multiple forums. You merely tried to say something that came off as sounding like, "these problems are ok because ati has alpha blending problems." Whoopdy doo. Now how does that pertain to the matter at hand?

And that tranC guy just fuckin makes me laugh. He always tries to debunk a problem and blame it on the user or say that ATi has the same issues. He's done this exact type of thing before in another thread. He also had some unbacked bogus theories in that thread as well. It was the one with the doom 3 shader optimization for ati, saying it made it looks loads worse and all sorts of shit. Looked the same to me... heh.

And yes, I can see the problems there, looks goddamned annoying. Seems as though it would burn your eyes out of your skull while playing it I have to say I haven't had any problems on my 9800 in any games. But i'll go look for this kind of thing in a minute.
 

BenT

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Forgive me for being dumb, but I don't see anything wrong with those videos...
 

Netrat33

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Longinus00 said:
Is this what everyone consideres the shimmering problem? Is this what everyone is talking about? This is what looks the closest to the pictures in the other forums posted awhile back of CS:S that I could replicate at this time.



MM...close...this looks more like you not using AA
turn left where you are at right now..and move towards the door (robot crouching on the ground) look at the wall reflection...it moves like there is no AA there
 

Netrat33

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id11742.jpg


Farcry everything pimped out
shimmering. When you start moving these little areas I drew out...start moving vibrating
 

LGZdarkside

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Netrat33 said:
id11742.jpg


Farcry everything pimped out
shimmering. When you start moving these little areas I drew out...start moving vibrating


Looks like "pixel popping" and the only AA method that ever eliminated it was 3dfx's implementation.

It drives me crazy in flight sims, no modern video card has looked as good as my "retired" Voodoo5500 when hunting for ground targets from 15,000 feet :) .

I may seriously have to set up a 98 box just to play them.

Brent
 

HeavenX

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People that dont understand what shimmering is please dont reply here anymore because it is making me feel very sick because of your stupid self. Soo plzz if you are about to write that you own a 6800 and dont have the shimmering problem plzz keep it to your self because I am growing very unstable at this point to hear that retarded comment over and over from a stupid/blind living being. Your effort will be great'ly appreciated.
 

LGZdarkside

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HeavenX said:
People that dont understand what shimmering is please don't reply here anymore because it is making me feel very sick because of your stupid self. Soo plzz if you are about to write that you own a 6800 and dont have the shimmering problem plzz keep it to your self because I am growing very unstable at this point to hear that retarded comment over and over from a stupid/blind living being. Your effort will be great'ly appreciated.

hmmmm...

It looks like the pixels popping back and forth between a light sample and a dark sample along an AA sample grid edge. It does that because on the type of sampling pattern used by the filter.

AND , I own a Gaming center running 6800GT's in all our machines, I will check it out tomorrow and see if Far Cry looks like that on our machines (almost sure it does "pop" to some extent, but we do run at 1600x1200, medium AA, and trilinear)

Brent
 

GoatMan

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Just like to say that i have it on my 6800GT and i couldn't get it to go away with 8xS/16xAF with optimizations off and trying various drivers because it was annoying me so bad but now i just look past it until hopefully nvidia fixes it. Now i haven't really looked for it on the current 66.81 because the game i've been regularly play would never show something like that.(savage)

For those who don't see it look at the BF video at the ground infront of him a little ways... It looks like the ground is moving with him i guess you could say. On the screenshots look at the jaggies around stuff and in game when you move its like they move back and forth and its very annoying.
 

DropTech

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HeavenX said:
People that dont understand what shimmering is please dont reply here anymore because it is making me feel very sick because of your stupid self. Soo plzz if you are about to write that you own a 6800 and dont have the shimmering problem plzz keep it to your self because I am growing very unstable at this point to hear that retarded comment over and over from a stupid/blind living being. Your effort will be great'ly appreciated.

So you're calling the people who don't have it blind because we don't see it? It's already been said and shown that not all cards have it... So...

With my brothers GT I just reinstalled windows and then reinstalled the drivers, same as before and same settings; but the shimmering is completely gone... WTF? I even dropped the AA and AF a level and it's still gone. Quality setting drop brings it back though.
 

SilverBack

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I just finished Painkiller with no artifacts at all.
And you really have to question someones motives saying that the "shimmering" almost makes a game unplayable.

Totally obsessive compulsive behaviourr.....
 

magoo

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I enjoy the comments. I gotta two systems. 1 6800gt, 1 6800 ultra. Do i see something of what you speak?? yes. I think that you may ask a bit too much of the machine to give you perfect images whilst running to and fro blasting up the bad guys. I have at times seen this aliasing or whatever but it really doesnt make doom3 or far cry "unplayable". I have felt it an even tradeoff to blast bad guys in rapid frame rate and actually really pretty pictures. Hope to read more and find out if there is a cure, but agree too tight-a--ed for my pleasure. :cool:
 

Longinus00

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Netrat33 said:
Longinus00 said:
Is this what everyone consideres the shimmering problem? Is this what everyone is talking about? This is what looks the closest to the pictures in the other forums posted awhile back of CS:S that I could replicate at this time.



MM...close...this looks more like you not using AA
turn left where you are at right now..and move towards the door (robot crouching on the ground) look at the wall reflection...it moves like there is no AA there


Well in Doom3 the ground there is actually just a bump map texture so AA wouldn't help any. I was just confused about what the shimmering problem was, I guess it's random pixel value changes rather than a moire thing of somesort.
 

doodman

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I never had the shimmering problem until last night when I ran AAO. This was right after I cranked up all of my settings on the drivers to max quality. 16xAF, 4xAA, high quality, no optimizations. Once these were turned on, I got shimmering when I view the stats screen, not when playing though, but it seemed choppy. I cranked the settings back down to no AF, no AA, and quality setting for the others. I kept the optimizations off for AA and AF. That fixed the problem for me.
 

Apple740

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The Battlefield 1942 movie that was posted on page 4 of this thread ( http://www.abu-el-mot.de/rs/bf.avi ), which settings did they use on that 6800GT? I guess it's 800x600, 4xAA/8xAF?

If people are interested, i will post the same movie from my X800XT, but i must now which settings they used so i can do the same.
 

Staples

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This happens with all cards I have had. It is a result of either poor or no AA. I never have and probably never will use AA because I want fast FPS so maybe that is why I have always seen it.
 

Staples

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I think this is a problem of the frames not being synced correctly. I will test this with CoD later with and without sync. I still say all cards have this problem, it is just less noticeable on some.
 

Sc0rched

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This is somewhat related I assume... I notice "shimmering" such as that in the screenshot of farcry, little white dotted lines where skins seperate that I have noticed mainly in CS and CS:S. However, I am NOT using an nVidia card. I am using a 9800XT with stock clocks. It seems to become smaller, and not as bright or distracting down when I raise AA and AF, but still appearent at max AA and AF. Although definatly not as bad as that. Maybe 2-3 spots per map, and some 0 spots. So I assume for me it is the game, but who knows. I didnt rember them before.

ADDED:
It doesn't exist on the ATi cards, period. The only thing remotely close to shimmer on an ATi card is when there are alpha textures on the screen. Like I said, aside from that, there is not one iota of proof to support there is a hint of shimmering with ATi cards. On the other hand there is an abundance of proof there is shimmering on nV cards as demonstrated by the videos. In fact I challenge you to find me a single video showing an ATi card with shimmer, state the settings and game and then I'll run it on my system and debunk your shimmer theory. Just remember, it musn't contain alpha textures since ATi doesn't support SSAA.

Show me a spot to upload a video, and I will record one for you of it "shimmering", or what seems to me to be shimmering.
 

Netrat33

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Staples said:
I think this is a problem of the frames not being synced correctly. I will test this with CoD later with and without sync. I still say all cards have this problem, it is just less noticeable on some.


This stuff happens to me more with "shiney objects" but obviously that isn't the correct shininess that's supposed to be seen
 

ECM

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Netrat33 said:
This stuff happens to me more with "shiney objects" but obviously that isn't the correct shininess that's supposed to be seen

Yep, same here.
 

Apple740

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Ok, here is the same BF1942 vid, but now rendered on my X800XT. (Divx 5.2.1 codec, 800x600 res with 4xAA/16xAF)

http://www.henno.dutchweb.nl/bf1942atix800xt.avi


Btw, I've noticed something funny. In the Nv6800 vid you don't walk but "skate". In my X800 vid your view/head is really going up/down when you walk. (I don't know if this is due to another BF1942 version, i use 1.0)
 
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