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Neither did Intel. YOU chose a DDR5 board to go with ADL instead of a DDR4 board even though everything online pointed to supply issues with DDR5 and the minimal performance difference between 4 and 5 currently which will stay that way for at least a year or two.
learning shit the hard way sucks doesn't it.
Unfortunately the new wave is to blame other people for your own stupidity. Climate change wont end the human race... This may.I don't mean on short notice. they could have spent months securing their launch.
x10 at least.
Why? That's not their product. They're going to sell every chip they make regardless - from a business perspective, that makes no sense.
Not... quite. No. Network cards are all standard parts too - even the controller chips are older lines too. It's a PHY, a controller chip, and a pile of caps/resistors/PCIE connectors. When we say EVERYTHING is short, we mean everything. I worked for a major OEM until 2 months ago, and now work for a major partner - there is ~nothing~ that is not in short supply right now. Hell, they can't even get substrate!
Samsung has one 90nm fab plant. One (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants). It's an ancient process - why would intel (or anyone) invest in more of those for a single part, where margins are literally razor thin? Same reason Intel and everyone is pushing the car manufacturers to get off of the 200nm parts they use - why make more plants for razor thin parts? The demand will eventually normalize - can't "unmake" a plant that is running an ancient process.
This reminds me, I was out of internet this summer for 20 days because centurylink couldn't get parts for the repair.
I think that's more than I spent on my 10980XE system OR my 3960X system...
I doubt that. The Core i9 10980XE was $999 by itself at MSRP. The Threadripper 3960X was around $1,799.99 if i recall correctly. If you were to total up everything, including the case, PSU, etc. I bet you'd find you broke $4,000 easily unless you run low end GPU's with them.
What did you expect buying New, highly sought after tech amid a global chip shortage?
3960X was $1399 MSRP, I got it for $1250 with MC bundle. Zenith II Extreme Alpha was 750 after discount (MC Bundle again). 128G of DDR4 was $400. The 6800XT I got before things went nuts for $950 (SO lucky on this one - Asus Strix LC). PSU was a ROG Thor 1200 - $300 (also before things went nuts). Case was $250 (O11 Dynamic XL). Fans were another $100. Cooler was $100 (Noctua TR version of the big'un). $150 for the NVMe drive, times two.
I put it all in a 5000D though so lord knows what that entire thing cost. Motherboard was 500, RAM was 450 (no more sales )... GPU was a pre-stupid 3080... but that case was $500+ fans. And that's a LOT of fans.Yeah, it used to take an effort to get to 4k euros but last few years GPUs, CPUs, MBs and drives have skyrocketed in price (even before corona hit). Nowdays it is just about doing multiple orders of 500 here and 1200 there. Do it a few times and your build price just skyrockets
Bought most of the stuff on my 1 year old build at or below MSRP, but didn't realize the total cost until I added it up. Probably was bought on 12 different orders each ranging between 200 and 1400 euros each which made it not feel that expensive.That's kind of my point. If you add up all the fans, cables, extensions, brackets, or whatever other incidentals are needed the price gets out of control rather quickly. A lot of us don't buy everything all at once, so we don't generally think about what we have invested in these things.I put it all in a 5000D though so lord knows what that entire thing cost. Motherboard was 500, RAM was 450 (no more sales
Computers costing well more than $3,000 aren't new. In fact, high end machines always have. Most of my machines have been well in excess of $5,000 for years now. Granted, I usually built HEDT rigs which meant $500 motherboards, $1,000 CPU's, and twice as many memory modules for quad-channel. That being said, your correct. The mainstream segment has become far more expensive in recent years on the high end. The main difference is where we spend the money. Things that used to be cheap are rather expensive now and somethings that used to cost a fortune simply don't anymore. Motherboards used to be $100, but you used to need a modem, network card, sound card, and even a drive controller. Now, it's all rolled into one.Yeah, it used to take an effort to get to 4k euros but last few years GPUs, CPUs, MBs and drives have skyrocketed in price (even before corona hit). Nowdays it is just about doing multiple orders of 500 here and 1200 there. Do it a few times and your build price just skyrockets
There are a lot of misconceptions in this post.
Pretty long rant for my utter lack of understanding. So your saying the communication between board makers, Intel and memory makers is not important and having people buying systems they cannot use due to no reasonably priced DDR 5 ram is to be expected, maybe ok even? -> All indicates poor communication and expectations between parties involved. Using resources to make boards that cannot be used by the buyers is definitely not optimum. As for how AMD poorly related Bulldozer era makes it ok for Intel or explains Intel position now seem irrelevant.
My benchmark scores are better than your benchmark scores
No, I didn't say that. No where in my post did I indicate this was the case. What I am saying is that people in this thread are making assumptions about how the industry works. I'm telling you, that it doesn't work the way you think it does or necessarily the way it should. Intel can exert some measure of control over motherboard manufacturers but cannot exert the same control over memory makers. Even if it could, the memory makers cannot change the fact that the chip they need is unavailable. There are a lot of factors going on here. Demand for DDR5 may be higher than expected. Supply shortages to this extent may not have been foreseeable or correctable.
This is not what I said. I said that shortages like this have happened before and are not entirely unprecedented. I'm reasonably certain no one could have accurately predicted that the situation would have been as bad as it is. Even if they did, that doesn't mean that anything could have been done about it.
Again, it doesn't necessarily indicate a communication issue. No where did I say that building parts that couldn't be used by the consumer was optimal. I simply said that the decision to release everything even with the shortage is likely a business decision and Intel and all parties doing the best they can under the circumstances. Intel, the motherboard makers and even the memory companies wish they had more product to sell. They don't make anything off the scalpers.
Again, I didn't say that. At no point did I say it was OK. I'm simply providing historical context. This sort of thing happens from time to time for a variety of reasons. There are a ton of things in motion at dozens if not hundreds of companies regarding these products and their launches. Sometimes, things don't go well on someone's end and the end result is less than ideal. There is a bit of a domino effect a lot of times when one company can't deliver one seemingly simple thing on time or in the quantity required.
What I said was, the type of people who buy new technologies like this are early adopters. They are enthusiasts that are probably more often like me than not. Selling your DDR5 board and going with a DDR4 board, the best of which are midrange at most is not likely an acceptable alternative for many of them. Buying a DDR4 board and taking a loss on it later isn't necessarily a good work around. It's a huge pain in the ass for a number of reasons I've already covered. I simply relayed that I'm essentially in the same position as the OP, having a lot of expensive parts sitting around I can't use because of this situation.
Reinstalling the OS isn't really the problem. It's everything else. I can't stress that part enough. It's even worse for bandwidth limited individuals. Also, if you have an OEM copy, activation is problematic if you've done it too often in a short period of time. Few if any of you change hardware as often as I've been known to do it so I experience these problems more than most. Your denial of these issues and the difficulty or annoyance of installing and reinstalling all your programs and configuring the system doesn't change the fact that its a real consideration for people. This is especially true if the machine has a commercial use.
It's just like new instruction sets or other internal processor features. It takes time for software developers to learn to leverage them. What will be interesting is whether or not this type of design will catch on with AMD or not or if it will continue to do what its doing over the long haul. Right now its mostly a stop gap so Intel can say they have 16 core CPU's on the desktop, even if some of them have more limited functionality or don't help in a lot of situations. That being said, you can run games on them alone and do so efficiently if you wanted to. In mobile applications, they really could shine as they are efficient power wise. We'll have to see how things shake out on the software side. But, you could in theory run E-cores for most things while on battery and then P-cores and or E-cores when plugged in depending on what you need.
Ya, I got a 5900X with a 3080Ti and my setup was $3500 before tax
I think I'm at just under $3k in parts for my upgrade. Then again, I'm also doing a new case, radiators, case fans, etc. That's increasing the price quite a bit right there. The motherboard and CPU are just under $2k.
Fortunately both the ones I quoted were just air. And pre crazy pricing that has happened - I even got discounts! I don’t want to think about the gaming system on water, but that was just a 10700K
Thanks for all of your clarifications.
All newer RAM technologies are scarce in comparison when they launch. I've been around for everything from the SIPP, SIMM, EDO SIMMs and DIMMs to all versions of RAMBus, SDRAM and DDR. It's always the same deal. Memory manufacturers tool up to produce the new stuff but the demand for the older stuff will be higher as memory upgrades are not only used in new systems, but are probably the most common upgrade made to older computers. I went with X99 when it was new and it took awhile to get DDR4 for my own personal use. Granted, supply seems weaker than usual with DDR5, but supplies for a lot of stuff are bad. Hence the insane car pricing and so on.
I think Intel knew exactly what they were doing. This was more about capturing mind share with DDR5 and PCI Express 5 and Efficientcy Cores as the catch words to drive the hype with the obviously good reviews based on benchies. It's unfortunate with the supply issues but not really Intel's time to give a shit at this pivotal time. That's why they made the DDR4 boards to insure volume.
Probably Dan is right, pretty much Intel does not have much they can do. I see it as Intel is pushing next generation of memory forward by creating a rather big demand for it which will influence more production in the long run. I would think DDR5 is more lucrative now then DDR4 for memory manufacturers to start moving over to it more. Less of a gamble for them now knowing there is a market starving for it.
It's not like that stopped those key reviewers from testing Alder Lake with DDR4 anyway. The comparisons of DDR4 vs. DDR5 on the 12th gen are a dime a dozen for us consumers to be able to make an informed decision.Intel made sure the key reviewers got DDR5. It is about, hey looka what we got not about hey looka what you can buy
A lot of these reasons played into why Intel chose to release Z690 and Alder Lake-S despite the supply issues with DDR5. It's a PR win for them that they support technologies that AMD doesn't. It's seen as more advanced and newer. Business is about perception as much as it's about having the best product.
You can always tell what the supply is going to look like by what reviewers get hardware. When it's everyone, the supply should be good. When it's just the biggest Youtubers and websites, it's likely going to suck.Intel made sure the key reviewers got DDR5. It is about, hey looka what we got not about hey looka what you can buy
I've seen a lot of salt generated, with often multi-paragraphs explaining stuff the average PC build/user type these days doesn't understand nor care for and not much else. Bit like zen1 launch, better in some ways but with its own drawbacks and it's difficult to communicate. Next one is ecosystem price/perf, I'd bet their cheap boards will have the same cheap board issues as every other.
I almost can't believe I had to see someone point that out...
reminds me troll that cut down the PCIe tab to fit in an AGP slot years ago lol
