Why so excited for the iPhone X ? It's the same old thing running boring iOS

NIZMOZ

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iPhone 7 is faster at this time than iPhone 8. Not going by benchmark scores but actual usage. Apple has some issues to fix.

 

CHANG3D

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DxOMark give iPhone 8 Plus a 94, a new record. It's 2 points ahead of the regular iPhone 8.

https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-8-plus-reviewed-the-best-smartphone-camera-ever-tested/

dxomark-camera-scores-iphone-8-plus-iphone-8.jpg


We are now waiting on the LG V30 and the Samsung Note 8 to be tested.
 
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Trimlock

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I'm not really waiting for anything other than more fanboys trying to unjustify any Apple wins.
 

Zorachus

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Can't argue the beast inside the iPhone 8 Plus. Sure the design is super dated today, but the hardware packed inside the 8 Plus is top notch. A11 = best processor for 2017. Camera in the 8 Plus is currently #1 smartphone camera. I just hate iOS, it needs a major overhaul or at least a stable JB to be able to tweak it.
 

Trimlock

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Can't argue the beast inside the iPhone 8 Plus. Sure the design is super dated today, but the hardware packed inside the 8 Plus is top notch. A11 = best processor for 2017. Camera in the 8 Plus is currently #1 smartphone camera. I just hate iOS, it needs a major overhaul or at least a stable JB to be able to tweak it.
It sounds like what you really want is an iOS you can tweak.

While it would be cool if you could tweak the OS it sort of flies against the #1 principle of their software.
 

brettjrob

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While I still probably wouldn't buy an iPhone if they added it, I'm personally less put off by the lack of tweaking than by the lack of filesystem access. I guess that makes me old school these days, somehow, but I don't think I can ever get past it.
 

Aurelius

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While I still probably wouldn't buy an iPhone if they added it, I'm personally less put off by the lack of tweaking than by the lack of filesystem access. I guess that makes me old school these days, somehow, but I don't think I can ever get past it.

The Files app is a start. I don’t think Apple will give you raw folder access, but it does seem intent on unifying services and putting files in an easily accessible place.
 
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CHANG3D

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Right now the iOS 11 bugs are annoying the shit out of me. When I first got an iPhone coming from a bug ridden version of Android, I was like, hey, no bugs! Right now the bugs are no where near that level. But it's rather surprising. Actually I don't know if it's the apps or iOS cause I have a handful of apps that I have to restart to get working. WhatsApp is one of them.
 

exlink

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To be completely honest, if Apple made the 8/8+ models have 16:9 OLED panels at the same resolution then I'd probably consider them over the X. But alas, that's not the case.
 
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You have to watch the very end of that FunnyOrDie video above and read the fine print, really. :D
 

Putz

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went with the 8+ myself, defiantly faster than my 7+, better camera and wireless charging is nice. cant see any reason to go with the X other than its the ideal size between the 8 and 8+, but no touch ID is a no go for me. but id take anything over an android again, every time i try that i promptly sell it and go back to iOS, while the android hardware is on par with apple, android and its apps and spyware/malware and popups and random battery drains from craptastic apps have burned me far too many times.
 
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CHANG3D

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Have you used a Nexus or a Pixel Putz? I'm an iPhone person myself, but pure Android straight from Google don't have as many issues as the typical Samsung or LG. I still prefer the iPhone's memory management and power efficiency though. That's something not going to change unless Google redesigns Android to stop doing "real multitasking." I prefer "saved states" in iOS and WP (when it existed). But the lack of customization on the iPhone is rather annoying.
 

Trimlock

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Have you used a Nexus or a Pixel Putz? I'm an iPhone person myself, but pure Android straight from Google don't have as many issues as the typical Samsung or LG. I still prefer the iPhone's memory management and power efficiency though. That's something not going to change unless Google redesigns Android to stop doing "real multitasking." I prefer "saved states" in iOS and WP (when it existed). But the lack of customization on the iPhone is rather annoying.
I too loved pure android. OEM skins are terrible, back in the day when Android lacked many competing features they added a bunch themselves. Now it's the same features you can't turn off and cause most of the headaches.
 

BiH115

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Right now the iOS 11 bugs are annoying the shit out of me. When I first got an iPhone coming from a bug ridden version of Android, I was like, hey, no bugs! Right now the bugs are no where near that level. But it's rather surprising. Actually I don't know if it's the apps or iOS cause I have a handful of apps that I have to restart to get working. WhatsApp is one of them.

My dad was one of a handful of people (that I could find online) that had his 7 Plus basically become unusable after installing iOS 11. The entire phone just came to a crawl, taking a full minute between swapping applications, or even swiping between pages on the home screen. The speakers/microphone just stopped working, so no calls could really be made. Apple Music started exhibiting weird software glitches, where it just refused to launch. We tried a slew of things like reinstalling the OS, starting from a blank slate, nothing really fixed it. The Apple store had no idea what was going on, so they just gave him a new phone, and that fixed everything.
 

Putz

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Have you used a Nexus or a Pixel Putz? I'm an iPhone person myself, but pure Android straight from Google don't have as many issues as the typical Samsung or LG. I still prefer the iPhone's memory management and power efficiency though. That's something not going to change unless Google redesigns Android to stop doing "real multitasking." I prefer "saved states" in iOS and WP (when it existed). But the lack of customization on the iPhone is rather annoying.

yes pixel I used was about 3 months ago, probably the best android phone experience I had, no crappy lagwiz ui or preloaded garbage and nice hardware, the problems with android tend to come from 3rd party apps
 

CHANG3D

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yes pixel I used was about 3 months ago, probably the best android phone experience I had, no crappy lagwiz ui or preloaded garbage and nice hardware, the problems with android tend to come from 3rd party apps
as an ex Android developer, my experience lead me to believe that it's touch response time and accuracy is different on every phone and the screen resolution is also different. When I first worked on Android apps, we quickly learn that we have to optimize the apps for multiple phones. As time went on, we gave up and decided to essentially make a custom web browser instead.
 

Aurelius

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Any good iOS exclusive apps?

Tweetbot is one notable example. Android users don’t know what they’re missing with Twitter clients, I’d say.

My experience isn’t going to cover all the bases, but I will say that games are more likely to be iOS exclusive.
 

Putz

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trying to think of an major differences in Android revisions the last few years, other than improvements and bug fixes there havent been many besides icon updates, still looks the same as well

I prefer iOS and I agree is getting boring but android is no better, some makers have their own UI loaded but they just slow things down and cause even more android issues. I wont complain about iOS being stale since it just works so well that's probably why it hasn't changed
 
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I recall certain games (mainly stuff like Smashy Road: Wanted) running better on my little bro's SE than my Note 4 and even Note 8 in terms of general smoothness. I'm thinking this is largely some combination of optimization (iOS is more like developing for consoles in that respect), much lower screen resolution on the SE (and thus much lower fill rate needed), and Apple SoC performance that lends especially well to gaming.

Heck, it'd make a pretty slick gaming platform if the MOGA ACE POWER gamepad wasn't unreliable garbage on that SE (doesn't work most of the times I've tried it). Clamp it on, it's kinda like a PSP in terms of sheer width, and heck, it'd even be a way of giving the iPhone 7 and later a headphone jack if those weren't too big to fit. And speaking of gamepads, Apple actually does have a pretty good gamepad API they introduced back in iOS 7, down to including pressure-sensitive buttons of the sort you'd only otherwise find on a DualShock 2/3 or original Xbox pad.

All in all, mobile gaming is unquestionably one of iOS's strong suits for exclusives (it has friggin' Monster Hunter!) and multiplatform games alike, enough that it's half the reason for me to actually consider picking up an iPad Pro some day. The only time Android felt like it really had a leg up with mobile gaming was with Gear VR, and more recently, Daydream for all the non-Samsung users out there.

For general computing, though... well, let's just say that iOS has been playing catch-up for years, and not having basic file management prior to iOS 11 without a jailbreak was one particularly egregious omission. At least they corrected the lack of third-party apps and cut/copy/paste pretty quickly (both things that Palm OS and Windows Mobile already had), but that one stood out for far too long.

I've also heard of other dumb things like not being able to set your own custom ringtones or the inability to use Bluetooth mice should one need to remotely log into a desktop with RDP or VNC, and the latter apparently ties into iOS not having the concept of a mouse cursor (which also leads to dumbness like the Apple Pencil not having a hover cursor like a typical Wacom pen, thus not providing an appropriately-sized brush cursor).

Even then, I'll still need some extensive time actually using an iOS 11 device to see if it does what I need it to do, which includes things like accessing files on a networked hard drive at home (something that is trivial with a decent Windows Mobile or Android file explorer). I don't like having to go through a service like Google Drive or Dropbox if it can be avoided.
 
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I'm thinking this is largely some combination of optimization (iOS is more like developing for consoles in that respect), much lower screen resolution on the SE (and thus much lower fill rate needed), and Apple SoC performance that lends especially well to gaming.

It's simple, and it hasn't changed since the first iPhone or the first Android device:

iOS (and previously iPhone OS) runs on the bare metal native hardware of the device, and Android runs in a virtual machine sitting on top of a Linux base of code that runs on the bare metal native hardware - there is no legitimate way to compare the two OSes on any hardware that's ever been made because of this, really.

But, consider this: if Google could literally take Android and scrap it today and then tomorrow release a version of Android that ran directly on the bare metal native hardware, and considering the level(s) of performance that have been achieved with Android running in a virtual machine on top of that Linux base of code, that would be a pretty extraordinary thing to see and if such a thing could happen then we'd see Android make some pretty large jumps in overall performance for obvious reasons.

So when I see things like that recent Geekbench crap with the iPhone 8/8+ and soon the iPhone X and those crazy fucked up scores I know there's something funky going on because if one single core on those devices can get such a high score and yet when the multiple cores are tested with multithreaded code the overall score just barely doubles - meaning 6 cores getting just a little more than twice the score that 1 single core was able to manage that leaves only three possibilities:

1) The benchmark itself is poorly coded especially for testing multithreaded performance
2) The phone hardware is poorly designed and having 6 cores isn't helping or the OS code itself is broken in some respect
3) A combination of all of that happening simultaneously (the more than likely reason)

Either way, I'm one of those folks that doesn't give a fuck about some benchmark score with a smartphone. I don't play games, and doing the things I do with my device don't require a lot of processing power or speed. As for smoothness of the UI, the OnePlus One had the smoothest UI I've ever experienced on any device and I've used or tested basically everything that's ever been released in the US including the iPhone 8/8+ and Note8 just last week and those devices lag like a mofo in my experience. I can't speak for other people but I can see the lag when it happens, and it happens a lot more than most people notice even on the flagships available today.
 

Aurelius

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It's simple, and it hasn't changed since the first iPhone or the first Android device:

iOS (and previously iPhone OS) runs on the bare metal native hardware of the device, and Android runs in a virtual machine sitting on top of a Linux base of code that runs on the bare metal native hardware - there is no legitimate way to compare the two OSes on any hardware that's ever been made because of this, really.

But, consider this: if Google could literally take Android and scrap it today and then tomorrow release a version of Android that ran directly on the bare metal native hardware, and considering the level(s) of performance that have been achieved with Android running in a virtual machine on top of that Linux base of code, that would be a pretty extraordinary thing to see and if such a thing could happen then we'd see Android make some pretty large jumps in overall performance for obvious reasons.

So when I see things like that recent Geekbench crap with the iPhone 8/8+ and soon the iPhone X and those crazy fucked up scores I know there's something funky going on because if one single core on those devices can get such a high score and yet when the multiple cores are tested with multithreaded code the overall score just barely doubles - meaning 6 cores getting just a little more than twice the score that 1 single core was able to manage that leaves only three possibilities:

1) The benchmark itself is poorly coded especially for testing multithreaded performance
2) The phone hardware is poorly designed and having 6 cores isn't helping or the OS code itself is broken in some respect
3) A combination of all of that happening simultaneously (the more than likely reason)

Either way, I'm one of those folks that doesn't give a fuck about some benchmark score with a smartphone. I don't play games, and doing the things I do with my device don't require a lot of processing power or speed. As for smoothness of the UI, the OnePlus One had the smoothest UI I've ever experienced on any device and I've used or tested basically everything that's ever been released in the US including the iPhone 8/8+ and Note8 just last week and those devices lag like a mofo in my experience. I can't speak for other people but I can see the lag when it happens, and it happens a lot more than most people notice even on the flagships available today.

Keep in mind that the A11 doesn't have six full-power cores -- it's more like 3 high- and 3 low-power cores. I understand all of them can run at the same time, but that still means the performance delta between single- and multi-core isn't going to be as great as it suggests. Apple's focus is still on having a small number of very fast cores rather than the "more cores are always better" strategy you tend to see with processors in Android devices.
 
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It's simple, and it hasn't changed since the first iPhone or the first Android device:

iOS (and previously iPhone OS) runs on the bare metal native hardware of the device, and Android runs in a virtual machine sitting on top of a Linux base of code that runs on the bare metal native hardware - there is no legitimate way to compare the two OSes on any hardware that's ever been made because of this, really.

But, consider this: if Google could literally take Android and scrap it today and then tomorrow release a version of Android that ran directly on the bare metal native hardware, and considering the level(s) of performance that have been achieved with Android running in a virtual machine on top of that Linux base of code, that would be a pretty extraordinary thing to see and if such a thing could happen then we'd see Android make some pretty large jumps in overall performance for obvious reasons.

So when I see things like that recent Geekbench crap with the iPhone 8/8+ and soon the iPhone X and those crazy fucked up scores I know there's something funky going on because if one single core on those devices can get such a high score and yet when the multiple cores are tested with multithreaded code the overall score just barely doubles - meaning 6 cores getting just a little more than twice the score that 1 single core was able to manage that leaves only three possibilities:

1) The benchmark itself is poorly coded especially for testing multithreaded performance
2) The phone hardware is poorly designed and having 6 cores isn't helping or the OS code itself is broken in some respect
3) A combination of all of that happening simultaneously (the more than likely reason)

Either way, I'm one of those folks that doesn't give a fuck about some benchmark score with a smartphone. I don't play games, and doing the things I do with my device don't require a lot of processing power or speed. As for smoothness of the UI, the OnePlus One had the smoothest UI I've ever experienced on any device and I've used or tested basically everything that's ever been released in the US including the iPhone 8/8+ and Note8 just last week and those devices lag like a mofo in my experience. I can't speak for other people but I can see the lag when it happens, and it happens a lot more than most people notice even on the flagships available today.
I thought Android was heading in that direction with the Native Development Kit (upon which any Android apps built upon it will not run on non-ARM architectures, as people with Intel x86-based hardware like older ZenFones found out the hard way) and throwing out Dalvik for ART. Whether they've moved enough in that direction... well, you be the judge.

If anything, what annoyed me more about Android architecturally was the need to constantly recompile a whole Linux kernel and associated drivers with every feature release, something that Project Treble is only just now trying to solve when it's a problem that most proper OSes had solved for decades with a sensible driver interface. Granted, the non-standard bootloading process between ARM devices is not helping one bit, whereas you can target the general BIOS/UEFI boot process on a PC (or OpenFirmware on New World PowerPC Macs) and have core OS functionality covered, with a few vendor-specific binary drivers to add the last few bits of optimal functionality.

Apple hasn't really been fazed by that because they have vertical integration to the extreme - something the Mac faithful have been touting as an advantage for quite a while now, though I just see it as walling off their garden to overpriced, underfeatured (iOS) or underperforming (Mac) hardware these days.

As for device lag, I'm surprised you're saying that the Note 8 "lags like a mofo", considering it's by far the smoothest Samsung device I've ever used - no custom ROMs necessary, and thank goodness for that when they screw over North American customers like myself with locked bootloaders! It's worlds apart from the Note 4 and S3 to the point that, for the first time ever, I actually don't feel like I need root privileges to fix basic crap with their tweaked-up Android distribution. Of course, the real question is whether it stays that way after a few firmware updates, specifically the big feature updates.

It might not be quite as fast as my bro's LG G3 with a Resurrection Remix 7.1.1 ROM I threw on a while back for general UI responsiveness (seriously, that thing is stupid fast in ways you wouldn't expect of a SD801 driving a QHD screen), but smoothness is certainly something I haven't complained about outside of games (which I don't play much of on smartphones to begin with). The Note 8 is actually more responsive than a lot of older full-fledged computers I have lying around at home; only my Q6600 and 4770K boxes hold up, in large part because they're both equipped with SSDs. The laptops are real lagfests by comparison, even when they ran on the same SSDs. Not having asstastic Intel graphics holding everything back goes a long way.

You wanna complain about lag on Android devices? Perhaps you can tell me why my Wacom Cintiq Companion Hybrid suddenly seizes up for a few seconds from time to time just trying to pull the notification shade down, then! Some speculate that it's crappy NVIDIA Tegra 4 drivers to thank there, and there's not much anyone can do about it when they're binary blobs and Wacom didn't even provide kernel sources (GPL violation!), implement fastboot mode, or just provide an update past the factory 4.2.1 Jelly Bean release. And even then, that thing's a hell of a lot more responsive than some of the cheap-ass tablets my parents got for my little bro with just 1 GB of RAM, pathetically small amounts of internal storage and low-res screens... one of 'em was an LG G Pad F7.0 that would occasionally reload the launcher after visiting the Settings menu because it was so crippled by the lack of RAM. Worst user experience EVER.
 

Aurelius

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Apple hasn't really been fazed by that because they have vertical integration to the extreme - something the Mac faithful have been touting as an advantage for quite a while now, though I just see it as walling off their garden to overpriced, underfeatured (iOS) or underperforming (Mac) hardware these days.

I've seen it as both. Yeah, Apple clearly wants you to stick to its devices, but you clearly get something if you do buy into the ecosystem. I can expect calls, text messages, reminders and notes to reach my Mac automatically -- no add-ons, no having to fire up a browser. I don't wait months for a just-released OS to reach my devices; hardware features actually get properly used instead of seeing one or two token implementations. And it's not just obvious things like NFC payments. Apple not only designed a new file system optimized for flash storage on both computers and mobile devices, it actually converted all iOS users to that file system without hiccups. Can you imagine Microsoft doing that with Windows any time soon? Hell no -- it has to account for way too many PC configs to assume that most of its users will adopt flash storage. I'd be surprised if there was a replacement file system in Windows within 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, there is a beauty in getting to choose the vendors you want, the apps you want and the features you want. But there is a "lowest common denominator" element to platforms like Android and Windows that prevents tight integration and optimization. There's this tacit acknowledgment that certain things will never be quite as good as they could be, even if they're often good enough.
 
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I've seen it as both. Yeah, Apple clearly wants you to stick to its devices, but you clearly get something if you do buy into the ecosystem. I can expect calls, text messages, reminders and notes to reach my Mac automatically -- no add-ons, no having to fire up a browser. I don't wait months for a just-released OS to reach my devices; hardware features actually get properly used instead of seeing one or two token implementations. And it's not just obvious things like NFC payments. Apple not only designed a new file system optimized for flash storage on both computers and mobile devices, it actually converted all iOS users to that file system without hiccups. Can you imagine Microsoft doing that with Windows any time soon? Hell no -- it has to account for way too many PC configs to assume that most of its users will adopt flash storage. I'd be surprised if there was a replacement file system in Windows within 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, there is a beauty in getting to choose the vendors you want, the apps you want and the features you want. But there is a "lowest common denominator" element to platforms like Android and Windows that prevents tight integration and optimization. There's this tacit acknowledgment that certain things will never be quite as good as they could be, even if they're often good enough.
That actually does sum up a lot of advantages of said vertical integration - so long as Apple does the things you want them to, anyway. What they choose to do, they do damn well. They even sneak in cool features like Target Disk Mode and Target Display Mode from time to time, and post-Lion Intel Macs can apparently retrieve a macOS installation image through the Internet if you don't have any physical install media on hand. That's pretty legitimately cool, if you ask me.

Apple was pretty smart about their APFS rollout, too; it's been in beta throughout Sierra's lifespan, but they wanted to make damn sure it was reliable before defaulting to it with High Sierra. File systems are not something that can afford to be unreliable in the slightest, because data loss sucks big time.

Also, they can get away with such things like radical new file systems and a clean underlying architecture partly because they don't give a damn about backwards compatibility. Just ask all the people trying to find PowerPC-compatible software today (which, by the way, doesn't run on Intel Macs at all for non-Universal binaries because Apple completely ditched Rosetta in Lion like Leopard ditched Classic Mode) to keep their older systems useful, particularly G4s and G5s. I think I even read something about how recent OS X/macOS versions don't play nicely with HFS (no plus) volumes, which makes trying to work with stuff involving vintage Macs prior to OS 8 even more of a pain than it already is.

Microsoft can't pull that off because Windows' greatest asset, albeit not a perfect one, is its backwards compatibility. Hell, there are some games from the Win9x era that actually still run on today's computers without much of a problem, which is surprising given that there's also several games with such poorly thought-out coding practices that will not work on any NT-derived flavor of Windows despite my best efforts. (I keep a P4EE build that can run 98SE natively for this exact reason.) Of course, it's not from lack of trying on their part; they're trying to cram that Universal Windows Platform stuff down our throats, an extension of all that Metro/Modern UI stuff introduced back with Windows 8, and PC game devs everywhere rightly ripped them a new one with UWP's shortcomings compared to the established Win32 base.

Oh, and speaking of attempts to roll out file systems: WinFS. Too bad that got nowhere, as it sounded really cool before being axed with whatever passed as the original version of Windows Longhorn before it got completely scrapped, restarted from scratch, and ultimately released as Windows Vista. I suppose Longhorn is to MS as Copland is to Apple.
 

brettjrob

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I've seen it as both. Yeah, Apple clearly wants you to stick to its devices, but you clearly get something if you do buy into the ecosystem. I can expect calls, text messages, reminders and notes to reach my Mac automatically -- no add-ons, no having to fire up a browser. I don't wait months for a just-released OS to reach my devices; hardware features actually get properly used instead of seeing one or two token implementations. And it's not just obvious things like NFC payments. Apple not only designed a new file system optimized for flash storage on both computers and mobile devices, it actually converted all iOS users to that file system without hiccups. Can you imagine Microsoft doing that with Windows any time soon? Hell no -- it has to account for way too many PC configs to assume that most of its users will adopt flash storage. I'd be surprised if there was a replacement file system in Windows within 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, there is a beauty in getting to choose the vendors you want, the apps you want and the features you want. But there is a "lowest common denominator" element to platforms like Android and Windows that prevents tight integration and optimization. There's this tacit acknowledgment that certain things will never be quite as good as they could be, even if they're often good enough.
This is all a fair assessment. What scares me is that the "tight vertical integration" model was always a minority niche (Mac) in the age of desktops and laptops. In the age of smartphones as the dominant personal device, it's becoming the dominant seller (iPhone), at least among middle- and upper-class Westerners (which is where the money is, and thus, is who companies care about disproportionately). I think that's very bad for competition and choice. Apple commands enough of the market that every choice they make about their devices and ecosystem has major ripple effects on everyone else -- much to my chagrin, as someone with no interest in their products. And yet, their tight integration and walled garden allows them to make damn near whatever choices they want, because their huge existing customer base can't flee elsewhere very easily. Take the headphone jack saga as a prime example of what I mean -- including how it then rippled out to the rest of the market, like clockwork. The whole design emphasis on form over function, "premium" unibody (your phone would get trashed by the tech media if it didn't conform), sealed batteries, etc. is another example that played out over the last 5-7 years.

I don't doubt that living in Apple's ecosystem is a nice experience, if you don't mind the cost and lack of choices. But part of avoiding their products for me is almost philosophical or political -- I might (or might not) enjoy using an iPhone if I tried it for a month, but I strongly believe that supporting the dominance of such an insular and anti-competitive business model will lead to a worse outcome for everyone down the road.
 

Aurelius

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This is all a fair assessment. What scares me is that the "tight vertical integration" model was always a minority niche (Mac) in the age of desktops and laptops. In the age of smartphones as the dominant personal device, it's becoming the dominant seller (iPhone), at least among middle- and upper-class Westerners (which is where the money is, and thus, is who companies care about disproportionately). I think that's very bad for competition and choice. Apple commands enough of the market that every choice they make about their devices and ecosystem has major ripple effects on everyone else -- much to my chagrin, as someone with no interest in their products. And yet, their tight integration and walled garden allows them to make damn near whatever choices they want, because their huge existing customer base can't flee elsewhere very easily. Take the headphone jack saga as a prime example of what I mean -- including how it then rippled out to the rest of the market, like clockwork. The whole design emphasis on form over function, "premium" unibody (your phone would get trashed by the tech media if it didn't conform), sealed batteries, etc. is another example that played out over the last 5-7 years.

I don't doubt that living in Apple's ecosystem is a nice experience, if you don't mind the cost and lack of choices. But part of avoiding their products for me is almost philosophical or political -- I might (or might not) enjoy using an iPhone if I tried it for a month, but I strongly believe that supporting the dominance of such an insular and anti-competitive business model will lead to a worse outcome for everyone down the road.

I believe we need healthy support for Apple, at least so long as it changes its practices if it ever becomes the majority phone/computer maker. Right now, iOS is all that stands between Google and an absolute Android monopoly. And while that would theoretically lead to more people having choices in their devices, in practice I suspect it'd lead to stagnation. Google's Pixel line and numerous underlying improvements to Android wouldn't exist without Apple keeping that pressure up, for instance, and of course Samsung regularly looks to the iPhone as its feature roadmap. Same thing with Microsoft, for that matter. Would Windows have any kind of touch optimization if it weren't for the iPhone and iPad? Steve Ballmer was convinced all humans are preprogrammed to love Windows, and it took Apple kicking Microsoft's ass in MP3 players and mobile for him to realize this wasn't true.

I'd add that I don't think Apple was the instigator of the no-headphone-jack trend. LeEco, Motorola and others had already unveiled phones without headphone jacks by the time the iPhone 7 showed up. The difference is that Apple made it 'okay' to do this.

And while moves like that are sometimes iffy... let's face it, sometimes progress in tech needs a company with both a singular will and the clout to make it a reality. Apple's stubbornness is why carriers have far less control over smartphones than they did in 2007; Apple is why mobile payments are actually taking off; Apple is why computers quickly transitioned to USB. There's a kind of 'natural' inertia to the Android and Windows worlds where there are rarely major shifts that aren't just about speeds-and-feeds upgrades.
 

NIZMOZ

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I'm not really waiting for anything other than more fanboys trying to unjustify any Apple wins.

Comparisons have already proved the Note 8 and V30 has a better camera over the iPhone 8. If you noticed DXOMARK is a fan of Apple and they never tested the S7 either.
 

NIZMOZ

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Can't argue the beast inside the iPhone 8 Plus. Sure the design is super dated today, but the hardware packed inside the 8 Plus is top notch. A11 = best processor for 2017. Camera in the 8 Plus is currently #1 smartphone camera. I just hate iOS, it needs a major overhaul or at least a stable JB to be able to tweak it.

Only in "benchmarks" not real world usage where the Note 8 is faster. Apple fansheep will argue to no end about the benchmark and make up excuses why the iPhone 8 lost to the Note 8. Benchmarks aren't a good comparison in real world usage. It is also NOT the #1 camera period.
 
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In similar testing with the iPhone 8+ vs the Galaxy Note8 vs the OnePlus 5 the OnePlus 5 smoked both of them handily so, it's kinda sad that such results are often overlooked in favor of "the big two" meaning Apple and Samsung devices. ;)
 

Aurelius

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Comparisons have already proved the Note 8 and V30 has a better camera over the iPhone 8. If you noticed DXOMARK is a fan of Apple and they never tested the S7 either.

But we're not supposed to be looking at the iPhone 8 Plus, we're supposed to be looking at the iPhone X. For one thing, the X has a considerably better long-range camera with a wider f/2.4 aperture and OIS. You can argue that this should've been present on the 8 Plus, but that's not what the thread is about, is it?

And between this and your benchmark post, we get it: you're a hardcore Android fan. You 'need' Apple to lose. You highlight the instances where it lost, and claim that it doesn't count when Apple does win. How about you drop that and just acknowledge that the iPhone 8 is still a fine phone even though it does lose in some tests, especially as nothing the Note 8 does will help someone if they don't like Android or Samsung UX?

That's what drives people nuts with the iPhone X. They'll say that company ABC did the next-to-no-bezel display concept first, or that ABC's camera is technically better under certain conditions... yeah, you know what? Doesn't matter much. If you're even vaguely inclined more toward an iPhone than, say, a Note 8 or V30, the iPhone X scratches those itches well enough that there's little pressure to switch. Hell, that's true with the 8/8 Plus to a lesser degree. And while you can definitely point to areas where the iPhone doesn't fare as well, there are also points where it's clearly better, like face recognition and timely OS updates.
 

Trimlock

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Comparisons have already proved the Note 8 and V30 has a better camera over the iPhone 8. If you noticed DXOMARK is a fan of Apple and they never tested the S7 either.
What I notice is posters like you who spend a majority of their time trying to convince either themselves or others that no matter the Android phone will always be superior due to some technicality. That's where I get my reading enjoyment from.

If Apple wins in a benchmark, the benchmark is heavily favored to iOS, if they get a favored review from a website they are fanboys, if they outsell the competition the buyers are sheep ... this list goes on. I find it hilarious.
 

NIZMOZ

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But we're not supposed to be looking at the iPhone 8 Plus, we're supposed to be looking at the iPhone X. For one thing, the X has a considerably better long-range camera with a wider f/2.4 aperture and OIS. You can argue that this should've been present on the 8 Plus, but that's not what the thread is about, is it?

And between this and your benchmark post, we get it: you're a hardcore Android fan. You 'need' Apple to lose. You highlight the instances where it lost, and claim that it doesn't count when Apple does win. How about you drop that and just acknowledge that the iPhone 8 is still a fine phone even though it does lose in some tests, especially as nothing the Note 8 does will help someone if they don't like Android or Samsung UX?

That's what drives people nuts with the iPhone X. They'll say that company ABC did the next-to-no-bezel display concept first, or that ABC's camera is technically better under certain conditions... yeah, you know what? Doesn't matter much. If you're even vaguely inclined more toward an iPhone than, say, a Note 8 or V30, the iPhone X scratches those itches well enough that there's little pressure to switch. Hell, that's true with the 8/8 Plus to a lesser degree. And while you can definitely point to areas where the iPhone doesn't fare as well, there are also points where it's clearly better, like face recognition and timely OS updates.

And you know this how? The X isn't even out yet or tested. What is out currently is what I am discussing and what we know.

I am far from an Android fan. My Note 8 is my favorite Android. But I have had iPhones since the 3G. My last was my 7 plus. I have actually hated Android till recently after I saw how well it has become. The point is, anytime Apple Fanboys lose they cry and make up excuses. It is a good phone, but it isn't the best phone. Apple has lost it's way in design period. The X will not sell well at that price period.

Android gets timely o/s updates every month and has face recognition that works unlike Apples that failed.
 

NIZMOZ

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What I notice is posters like you who spend a majority of their time trying to convince either themselves or others that no matter the Android phone will always be superior due to some technicality. That's where I get my reading enjoyment from.

If Apple wins in a benchmark, the benchmark is heavily favored to iOS, if they get a favored review from a website they are fanboys, if they outsell the competition the buyers are sheep ... this list goes on. I find it hilarious.

You are right, and most of the time I see it from the Apple camp like yourself throwing those comments around. I am just going by the facts that are out there in all the tests I have been following. Tons of them on youtube. Look and you will see the Note 8 has constantly won over the iPHone 8 which will have the same processor as the X.
 

Trimlock

[H]F Junkie
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You are right, and most of the time I see it from the Apple camp like yourself throwing those comments around. I am just going by the facts that are out there in all the tests I have been following. Tons of them on youtube. Look and you will see the Note 8 has constantly won over the iPHone 8 which will have the same processor as the X.
See? more or less you trying to convince others.

You need another hobby.
 

MrCrispy

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May 14, 2007
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What's amazing is that every tech blog on Earth treats every iPhone reveal as the 2nd coming of JC and a new era in phones, when the changes at best are minor.

A decade of copying Android features, which in Apple speak is 'for the first time ever', and according to all these bloggers and Apple Apologists, 'its not done properly till Apple does it'. And still iOS is a locked down OS with a horrible notification system, Siri is a joke, the keyboard is a joke, and you still can't share files between apps.

The one good point, pretty much the only thing iPhone does better, is battery life.
 
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