where do you buy those lacquer mirror finish wood for speakers?

[Happy Hopping]

https://audiovector.com/r-8/

so the 2nd photo from the top, where do you get those wood? I try to search at etsy, all I get is false result

 

[pendragon1]

https://audiovector.com/r-8/

so the 2nd photo from the top, where do you get those wood? I try to search at etsy, all I get is false result

thats called elbow grease. you get raw wood, finish it and the polish it.
and then polish it some more.

 

[Zepher]

http://apadecor.com/pre-polished-veneer/

Watch this video of a guy making a custom turntable, he uses veneer sheets to cover the unit,
9:40 is when he is applying it

 

[pendragon1]

i guess you could cheat with that ^^

 

[travm]

Its not really cheating, its the same thing, just using veneer and plywood instead of the real deal.
You still have to sand, prep, and finish, then sand, maybe finish again, repeat until it looks good. They make some pretty sweet finish materials that polish real well. I'm not sure if they are available at your local store though.

 

[cjcox]

Just saying, but probably most of the time, it's a laminate (sometimes not much more than wallpaper/sticker).

 

[JSHamlet234]

On a high-end speaker like that, you're going to usually have a high-quality wood veneer over high-quality MDF. MDF is actually a very desirable material for speaker cabinets, but it's ugly. Hence the veneer.

 

[travm]

Yep. The mirror finish stuff is typically some kind of poly urethane clear that has been put on thick and polished. You could do that over wallpaper if you wanted.

 

[Nobu]

(Don't) do this: https://hardforum.com/threads/spar-urethane-help.1973539/

Like others said, a veneer with a good finish is probably what you want. Prep is important, don't skip. Be sure it's glued on well, and then fill the gaps and attack with a sander until all (or most) of the surface imperfections are gone, fill and sand some more.

Or you can pay someone to do it for you.

 

[travm]

(Don't) do this: https://hardforum.com/threads/spar-urethane-help.1973539/

Like others said, a veneer with a good finish is probably what you want. Prep is important, don't skip. Be sure it's glued on well, and then fill the gaps and attack with a sander until all (or most) of the surface imperfections are gone, fill and sand some more.

Or you can pay someone to do it for you.

was this in genmay? i cant access that thread.

 

[pendragon1]

was this in genmay? i cant access that thread.

yup. time to pony up for a subscription.

 

[Nobu]

was this in genmay? i cant access that thread.

Yeah, sorry, didn't realize we were outside of genmay. It's just me doing pretty much everything poorly or just adequate, and coming up with something to match the effort I put in (good enough for me). If that's not worth the $5 sub, there's lots better from others in the hobby sub-forum.

 

[Happy Hopping]

1) I don't want veneer. Veneer is cheap junk. Out of the question. Are you guys saying that Denmark co. make that pair of speaker in veneer?

2) Here's the question I always wonder: many brand name of high end speaker uses lacquer or the equivalent, like Pendragon said, Elbow Grease, to make that wood surface shiny. But what about the chemical smell? Lacquer or equivalent can cause cancer. There is no way all these high end speaker co. uses a chemical that can cause cancer as they know for $50K and up, people who can afford it will ask the question about the chemical. Although I'm guessing if you stick your nose on the surface, you can't smell it.

 

[JSHamlet234]

1) I don't want veneer. Veneer is cheap junk. Out of the question. Are you guys saying that Denmark co. make that pair of speaker in veneer?

2) Here's the question I always wonder: many brand name of high end speaker uses lacquer or the equivalent, like Pendragon said, Elbow Grease, to make that wood surface shiny. But what about the chemical smell? Lacquer or equivalent can cause cancer. There is no way all these high end speaker co. uses a chemical that can cause cancer as they know for $50K and up, people who can afford it will ask the question about the chemical. Although I'm guessing if you stick your nose on the surface, you can't smell it.

From the exact link you posted:

"At Audiovector we only use carefully selected real wood veneers.
We offer a wide variety of custom painted finishes which are painted in Denmark. Availability on request."

Also do some research and learn about how speakers are made and why certain materials are chosen. The people making $50,000 speakers know a lot more than you.

 

[travm]

1) I don't want veneer. Veneer is cheap junk. Out of the question. Are you guys saying that Denmark co. make that pair of speaker in veneer?

2) Here's the question I always wonder: many brand name of high end speaker uses lacquer or the equivalent, like Pendragon said, Elbow Grease, to make that wood surface shiny. But what about the chemical smell? Lacquer or equivalent can cause cancer. There is no way all these high end speaker co. uses a chemical that can cause cancer as they know for $50K and up, people who can afford it will ask the question about the chemical. Although I'm guessing if you stick your nose on the surface, you can't smell it.

Wood veneer is often not cheap. Real solid hardwood is unstable and cracks often due to expansion and contraction (some are better than others, but wood is janky). Softwood is better, but it's soft. A softwood (or MDF) core with a thin hardwood veneer is often the better solution. Not a real expert on speakers, but I have built them before, MDF is often the choice material because it is a constant density. Real wood has imperfections, knots, and variable density. This all negatively effects the sound.

If you see a mirror finish wood product, it's poly urethane. Works for million dollar cars, why not $50000 speakers? The activated two part polys that you need to wear a full body suit and supplied air respirator to apply are best. Unfortunately for the workers, Cancer does seem to be a common thing... I don't have stats, just knew a few personally, seems odd, maybe it isnt.

Also, lacquer is cheap shit. Its old school tech, takes weeks to months to actually "dry". Polyurethane on the other hand, especially the two part (industrial) stuff, hardens in hours, cures in days, is harder, clearer, and more resistant to all things. But yeah, dont sniff it.

 

[pendragon1]

everything "causes cancer", rich people dont care, and what they said ^^^^

1) I don't want veneer. Veneer is cheap junk. Out of the question. Are you guys saying that Denmark co. make that pair of speaker in veneer?

2) Here's the question I always wonder: many brand name of high end speaker uses lacquer or the equivalent, like Pendragon said, Elbow Grease, to make that wood surface shiny. But what about the chemical smell? Lacquer or equivalent can cause cancer. There is no way all these high end speaker co. uses a chemical that can cause cancer as they know for $50K and up, people who can afford it will ask the question about the chemical. Although I'm guessing if you stick your nose on the surface, you can't smell it.

 

[Happy Hopping]

1) say it is poly urethane, and say these high end speakers are scatter around the world at up scale home. Are those people smelling the chemical? or is it safe?

2) if I like the grain of the wood, can you get it in real wood? or it has to be veneer? as I've seen veneer comes off after a no. of years

 

[pendragon1]

1) say it is poly urethane, and say these high end speakers are scatter around the world at up scale home. Are those people smelling the chemical? or is it safe?

2) if I like the grain of the wood, can you get it in real wood? or it has to be veneer? as I've seen veneer comes off after a no. of years

have you never seen glossy speakers in person before? no.
yes but its not usually used alone. you still need to make a multiply cabinet. ill go find a vid to show you.

edit: like this, but use your wood of choice on the outside.

Spoiler

 

[JSHamlet234]

1) say it is poly urethane, and say these high end speakers are scatter around the world at up scale home. Are those people smelling the chemical? or is it safe?

2) if I like the grain of the wood, can you get it in real wood? or it has to be veneer? as I've seen veneer comes off after a no. of years

1) I'm pretty sure that the paint is dry when you get it. You're more likely to get cancer from the crap in your food, your drinking water, the air you breathe, the trace amounts of uranium in your granite counter top, the glue that holds your car's interior together, the stuff in your shampoo.... ummm... you get the idea.

2) You have to ask them, not us. It would change the tonality of the speaker and introduce resonances for sure. All speakers have resonances, and speaker makers go to great lengths to minimize them or shift them to frequencies where they are more likely to go unnoticed. They would have to reengineer the entire speaker from the drivers to the crossover network to the cabinet bracing and the cabinet dampening - and there is still no guarantee that it would sound quite as good to an audiophile. For $50,000, it needs to sound DAMN good. A few minute imperfections and it's only worth $5000. A few more imperfections than that and it's only worth $500.

 

[travm]

Speakers are hella complicated. Like PhD with 10 years experience complicated. But simple enough that you can make shitty ones at home that work, meh not bad, for very little money and minimal technical knowledge.

You may already know this, but when you pay $50,000 for a set of speakers, you aren't paying for the paint. Speakers hit diminishing returns real fast, but keep getting marginally better the harder you work at it. Some people are more sensitive to sound as well. I've burned my eardrums with chainsaws and such, so I'm just happy I can hear something over the hum, for now.

To answer your questions,
1) no, once the coating is cured, it stops off gassing.
2) sure use solid wood if you want, there are reasons to use veneer. If it's an appropriate thickness, properly glued, and covered with polyurethane, it can last a very long time

 

[Nobu]

Veneer can be had in real wood. It is not cheap, and looks and behaves like real wood...because it is. It can be stained, painted, etched, burned, or whatever you want. If you don't want vinyl veneer, Don't get vinyl veneer.

Edit: regarding the veneer coming off, that has more to do with poor workmanship or exposure to moisture and changing environmental conditions. The same thing will make hardwood warp, crack, and split at the joints.

 

[travm]

Veneer can be had in real wood. It is not cheap, and looks and behaves like real wood...because it is. It can be stained, painted, etched, burned, or whatever you want. If you don't want vinyl veneer, Don't get vinyl veneer.

Edit: regarding the veneer coming off, that has more to do with poor workmanship or exposure to moisture and changing environmental conditions. The same thing will make hardwood warp, crack, and split at the joints.

I hadn't even considered that the OP might not know the difference between hardwood veneer and vinyl. Vinyl is cheap junk. Although, for exterior applications with the right glue it might be better.

 

[Happy Hopping]

I am actually looking for those wood, (now discovered as veneer) for upgrade on kitchen cabinets. I don't need speaker. I did find this:

https://www.hearnehardwoods.com/walnut-european-lumber-2/

 

[travm]

I am actually looking for those wood, (now discovered as veneer) for upgrade on kitchen cabinets. I don't need speaker. I did find this:

https://www.hearnehardwoods.com/walnut-european-lumber-2/

Your local lumber yard, contractors supply (home Depot) will sell that.

 

[Happy Hopping]

by the way, there is zero chance for me to believe a thin sheet of vineer will last. For dry weather cities, it will crack after a no. of years

 

[travm]

by the way, there is zero chance for me to believe a thin sheet of vineer will last. For dry weather cities, it will crack after a no. of years

You don't have to believe it for it to be true. Solid wood is not ideal for speakers. Veneer is available in different thicknesses, and from many different materials. Almost all wood products you can buy are veneer simply because it lasts longer. Solid hardwood will split and crack as humidity changes with the seasons, softwood is too soft. The solution is hardwood veneer over softwood core. It's literally how your make it last a long time.
Solid hardwood can be done, but you must take extreme steps to mitigate the expansion and contraction, and even then its risky (leave large gaps, use metal clips with slots, etc, all unsuitable for a speaker). For a speaker box, a very small one might be ok (think bookshelf), but large speakers will split and crack, and sound poor.
Visit some woodworking websites, there's a lot of good, true, experience based knowledge on the net. You are starting this quest with some incorrect assumptions.

The only way veneer would crack in a dry weather city would be if the core wood wasn't dried in the first place. Dry weather is actually conducive to not cracking. It's the wetter places that are harder because of the humid/dry cycles. Expansion,/ contraction can work on the glue, if a low quality adhesive is used, and no sealant is applied, it might fail. But solid wood fails the same, in the same environment.

 

[Mr Evil]

by the way, there is zero chance for me to believe a thin sheet of vineer will last. For dry weather cities, it will crack after a no. of years

Veneer, if properly applied, will last forever. For instance, the well-known Chippendale used veneer 250 years ago on furniture that has survived to the present.

 

[Nobu]

For cabinets, you'll definitely want a good polyurethane finish. You could do it yourself, but if you want it to look like those speakers, you may want to pay a professional to do it for you. It's a lot of work, so expect to pay a lot.

As for materials, solid hardwood may be acceptable for some parts, but you'll probably want a quality plywood for the body of the cabinets, as that'll be much less expensive and hold up better, plus it'll give the doors/drawers something more stable to hold onto.

 

[Happy Hopping]

so 2 quick questions:

1) if you read this article,

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-truth-about-wood-veneers

What she is not using is fake wood. "Oftentimes, when people see a veneered furnishing that’s cheap, it’s actually not wood at all—it’s a laminate material," Caruso explains, putting a name to the faux surface that gave all veneers a bad rap somewhere along the line. (Those are made from plastic, paper, or even foil that's been printed with a wood grain pattern that often wears away at the edges—a sure way to spot them.) But of course, there's also a range in quality of proper veneers depending on who makes them.

How do you know which is which? how would you know which sheet is high quality veneer and which sheet is those plastic / paper?

2) to go slightly off topic for a moment, you people are not concern about polyurethane causes cancer, what if say for a kitchen cabinet, the material is "Hybrid Resin" a mix of "Hardwood and resin", would you concern about smelling the chemical and cause cancer in long run?

 

[travm]

so 2 quick questions:

1) if you read this article,

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-truth-about-wood-veneers



How do you know which is which? how would you know which sheet is high quality veneer and which sheet is those plastic / paper?

If you have ever seen wood, you would know a real wood veneer. The fake vinyl stuff looks like plastic wood. When you are buying the sheets, they look and feel like super ultra thin plywood. Your local building supply store will have both in stock. They are used most often by builders making cabinets and kitchens. Both the real deal, and the cheap vinyl stuff. Vinyl is nice in that it is more resistant to water right off the bat.. But it looks cheap, its also cheaper to install because you don't need to finish it as much, or deal with imperfections. But for a high quality look speaker box, you'd want the real deal.

2) to go slightly off topic for a moment, you people are not concern about polyurethane causes cancer, what if say for a kitchen cabinet, the material is "Hybrid Resin" a mix of "Hardwood and resin", would you concern about smelling the chemical and cause cancer in long run?

Polyurethane, especially the good stuff, is deadly. Until it cures. Once it cures it is stable and doesnt release toxic gas any more. Now if you sand it and breathe in the dust, it can be bad, but not as bad as breathing the vapours. Plus the dust is harder to breathe. The vapours literally float around everywhere, whereas the dust tends to settle. You also need special equipment to filter the vapour (full face shield, sometimes supplied air or else a P95/100 w/ Organic vapour cartridge filter) whereas with dust an N95 mask and goggles are all you need for the dust.

 

[michalrz]

If something has a tendency to enter the environment (air, water, food) in meaningful amounts, it doesn't last long. Furniture lasts long.
With furniture, I would only be concerned if there was a fire (or cutting etc), in which case you are in serious trouble, as 9/11 recovery or Chernobyl showed.
I used epoxy to produce a protective, hard layer over my DIY solar panels - it's a bit of a pain in the ass to make sure it's level, mix the right proportions of both ingredients.
It's yellow-ish after settling, nice and shiny surface (unless a bubble forms or the consistency is not uniform) and can be further worked on with tools.

 

[Verge]

2) to go slightly off topic for a moment, you people are not concern about polyurethane causes cancer, what if say for a kitchen cabinet, the material is "Hybrid Resin" a mix of "Hardwood and resin", would you concern about smelling the chemical and cause cancer in long run?

Once it's cured you're good man. It's a solid material, there's no way to ingest it aside from eating or burning it and inhaling the fumes.

What do you think is on your car, or any other shiny object that isn't glass?

 

[Happy Hopping]

Once it's cured you're good man. It's a solid material, there's no way to ingest it aside from eating or burning it and inhaling the fumes.

What do you think is on your car, or any other shiny object that isn't glass?

but the other side of the argument is: people wants things that are natural. For e.g., I use to have foam / rubber yoga blocks. In the past few yr., I switch to nature cork yoga block. Because people is saying you breathe the chemical dissipating from the object that is coated w/ chemical

 

[travm]

but the other side of the argument is: people wants things that are natural. For e.g., I use to have foam / rubber yoga blocks. In the past few yr., I switch to nature cork yoga block. Because people is saying you breathe the chemical dissipating from the object that is coated w/ chemical

people also say there is a 10th planet called nobu(sp?) orbiting the sun and it comes by every 10 000 years and destroys life on earth. or something like that. Sometimes even science isnt very sciencey.

You can do natural wood, but you wont be able to clean it, it will stain if you smoke around it, spill anything on it, etc. and that glossy finish cannot be obtained. It will be dull and porus, like wood is.

Those same people that say that, wont understand that your shiny wood is coated in deadly chemicals, only that your product is made from wood, therefore natural. Just like you, asking on here where you buy that shiny wood, and then not believing us explaining how it is made.

 

[Happy Hopping]

so if I change my mind and want to buy the veneer sheet like the one from Audio Vector speaker website, where do they buy that? As all the search on the internet shows no pattern remotely near it

local shops don't have audio vector pattern. (No burl from Italy)

 

[Nobu]

The walnut burl? You'd probably have to buy a slab of wood and have someone cut the veneer for you. It would be very expensive.

 

[Nobu]

Of course, if it's vinyl, you could probably get it printed somewhere if you have a photo/pattern. I doubt you'll find something exactly like that (off the shelf) in vinyl, though. You won't find something exactly the same in wood either, being that each cut is unique.

 

[Happy Hopping]

if there is a slab of wood, I would just use the slab of wood

ea. cut is definitely be different. But w/i the italian burl walnut series, what would I find? would I be able to get similar pattern being the fact that they are in the same family

 

[Nobu]

if there is a slab of wood, I would just use the slab of wood

ea. cut is definitely be different. But w/i the italian burl walnut series, what would I find? would I be able to get similar pattern being the fact that they are in the same family

The slab of wood is expensive; if you can afford to do your whole kitchen using wood that's $100+ per board foot (ballpark number) go ahead. The problem is slabs that are big enough to do a whole door panel are stupid expensive, because the reason they look the way they do is due to the way the tree grew, and it takes a long time to grow that big besides.

That said, yes, you could get a similar pattern. But even cuts from the same board will be pretty different. Different boards from the same tree will be very different. Different boards from separate trees will be entirely different, almost without question.

 

[mustang_steve]

Some of the best speakers I’ve heard don’t even use wood. Concrete is almost resonance free, and with the right interior coating can be as close to sonically transparent as we can get.

Only issue is concrete is fugly. Thus veneer, however better makers will use thicker veneers and use a pressure curing process to ensure the veneer stays in place.

Once a finish is applied, the veneer is essentially locked into place. It’ll take some rough treatment to make it peel.