When will I see realistic results in Shooters?

Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
2,042
I didn't know what to call this thread so I just tried to give it a catchy title.

My basic question stems from a little Battlefield 2 game play last night. I was on a 3 v 3 (64 man) server. So we were basically screwing with each other and testing things out. I was a sniper and I was just honing in my skills for the Full Release.
Anyway there was another sniper across the map trying to be coy and crouch-walk across a clearing. I shot him (body shot) and he uncrouched and ran across the clearing into cover. What? Thats not realistic. I want him to be stunned at least.
I mean my sniper rifle should put a pretty nice wound through him, how can he now run?

When will we see some actual damage and pain in games?

Another instance is I shot a guy with a tank round from about 10-15yards. He should be no more, or atleast, there should be less of him. When will we see destruction of bodies?

I remember some games would slow you down as you were getting shot (cant remember off the top of my head) but when will we see people get shot, and not have all thier skills (running, jumping, etc) until they respawn or atleast seek medical attention.

What is holding this back? Is it physics? coding? problems with connection speeds? graphical limits?

Why cant we see people react to bullet wound like they should?
 

galdoes16

Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
736
IMO, I dont think BF2 was meant to be a simulation type game. Although it would be cool to shoot someone in their leg and watch them limp or crawl off into the sunset.
 

G'ßöö

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
1,456
other fps's need realistic aspects towards shooting damage and etc but its just not in the game .....yet. my advice to you is use it to your advantage, everyone else will.
 

kevin1211

Gawd
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
600
fyi, BF2 is not suppose to be a realistic FPS... even the devs said they are leaning towards a more arcade-like gaming experience...
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
2,042
kevin1211 said:
fyi, BF2 is not suppose to be a realistic FPS... even the devs said they are leaning towards a more arcade-like gaming experience...

I'm not talking about full on physics and realism, I'm talking about a tank round knocking your head off. If they want arcade play, make the head not just get knocked off but frickin explode.
 

truffle00

2[H]4U
Joined
May 16, 2001
Messages
4,088
ninethreeeleven said:
Why cant we see people react to bullet wound like they should?

Maybe because people want to have fun? I mean, if you want the ultimate in realism feel free to go join the Army or Marines as an infantry member...bullets put holes in people, no respawn, 0 ping, and while there's no AA, I hear the resolution is FANTASTIC!
 

ehZn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
1,096
ninethreeeleven said:
I'm not talking about full on physics and realism, I'm talking about a tank round knocking your head off. If they want arcade play, make the head not just get knocked off but frickin explode.

Ever played Soldier of Fortune II? Fully skinned people that allows target specific damage (being shot in the foot wont kill you, but you will limp) and limbs can be damaged and eventually blown off (with an explosion or a shotgun, for example).

But this was one of the few games I'd seen with anything like that, and it's not perfect, but it's a start.
 

The Donut

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
3,114
ninethreeeleven said:
I'm not talking about full on physics and realism, I'm talking about a tank round knocking your head off. If they want arcade play, make the head not just get knocked off but frickin explode.
The main reason for not having body parts that come apart from each other is the ESRB rating. If they have such graphical violence be it bloody or not, they'd have to raise the rating of the game.
 

Grimmda

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Messages
3,130
This idea has come up before from several different people I know.

I was impressed with one segment of BF2 I was involved in along these lines last night.

I was playing the single player just testing some things out, and I was the MEC forces.
In this situation it was a 16 Man server so there are just 4 flag points. The MEC forces held the top 3 so the US forces only had their main point.

I was attacking it from the bottom point and was comming up over the hill into the straight away clearing into that base area and there was a lot of action going on. Grenades going off, all 16 players were in the same area, medics were reviving and all hell was busting loose.

And the best part was my screen was fuzzy and shaking... It was that "head ringing" effect the game puts on you but I could still see decent enough to shoot the Marines coming up to me with a knife they were so close, I pulled out my Shotty (engineer) and was mowing those folks down (that gun is REALLY fun).

I was impressed with that head ringing effect, and would love to see the realism you speak of added to this game. So I'm with you bud!
 

Shakezilla

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
1,490
Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 both have some of that.
ahh the fun of shooting a guards trigger hand then his radio and then his leg and watching him try to limp away. Priceless.

Or stun grenading them and throwing them in a river so they drown.
 

Techx

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Messages
4,380
you also have to take into consideration the time/resources/revenue to implement all these extras.. It's no easy feat making a game such as BF2 which handle 64 players let alone start adding extras like physical damage to players, losing limbs, etc, the developers simply may not have time to add these things, plus once you start adding extras it increases processing requirements & extra rendering plus this has to be relayed to all of the clients increasing your ping..
 

ryanrule

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
1,668
Techx said:
you also have to take into consideration the time/resources/revenue to implement all these extras.. It's no easy feat making a game such as BF2 which handle 64 players let alone start adding extras like physical damage to players, losing limbs, etc, the developers simply may not have time to add these things, plus once you start adding extras it increases processing requirements & extra rendering plus this has to be relayed to all of the clients increasing your ping..
are all the graphics really necessary? naw, but people like em.
 

kick@ss

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Messages
5,541
ninethreeeleven said:
I didn't know what to call this thread so I just tried to give it a catchy title.

My basic question stems from a little Battlefield 2 game play last night. I was on a 3 v 3 (64 man) server. So we were basically screwing with each other and testing things out. I was a sniper and I was just honing in my skills for the Full Release.
Anyway there was another sniper across the map trying to be coy and crouch-walk across a clearing. I shot him (body shot) and he uncrouched and ran across the clearing into cover. What? Thats not realistic. I want him to be stunned at least.
I mean my sniper rifle should put a pretty nice wound through him, how can he now run?

When will we see some actual damage and pain in games?

Another instance is I shot a guy with a tank round from about 10-15yards. He should be no more, or atleast, there should be less of him. When will we see destruction of bodies?

I remember some games would slow you down as you were getting shot (cant remember off the top of my head) but when will we see people get shot, and not have all thier skills (running, jumping, etc) until they respawn or atleast seek medical attention.

What is holding this back? Is it physics? coding? problems with connection speeds? graphical limits?

Why cant we see people react to bullet wound like they should?
Join the Army. Realism != fun, as stated by the vast majority of people not playing "realistic" games.
 

UnlimitedMP

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Messages
1,946
I remember reading about some guys (I think they were foreign) who made some kind of contraption that would shock you with electricity if you got hurt in game. They should ship that free with BF2 instead of some dinky headset :).
 

Torgo

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Messages
3,149
ninethreeeleven said:
When will we see destruction of bodies?
You won't see another mass market game do this. It's realistic, but it's not fun. Soldier of Fortune II did it mainly for shock value and they admit to it. It was aimed at very specific target audience.

Frankly, players (with you being an exception) don't want to see the true horrors of war. It's not fun. My brother deals with these images everyday in the real world. It's bad. It's really, really bad. So why put this in a game? There's just a line you don't cross and exploding bodies and limbs flying around is pretty much it.
 

mcravenufo

Ravenufo's Macs
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
5,546
A "realistic" game would not be as fun.
Imagine how slow the game would be if everybody had to be very cautious of where they were?
 

UltimaParadox

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
6,244
IF you want to play a realistic game, play Opeation Flashpoint, its a great game, but a lot of people do not like it for its realism.

It is very slow pace, and one shot means it pretty much over.
 

d34dly

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
2,342
Well one thing I do agree with you on is that a tank round to the head should kill you. I shot a guy dead on with my anit-tank weapon and he didn't die... I mean seriously. You should die.

Oh and what is witht he sniper in BF2? Do you have to lead your target? Is it hitscan or not?
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
2,042
d34dly said:
Oh and what is witht he sniper in BF2? Do you have to lead your target? Is it hitscan or not?

I dont know whats up with the sniper, I know its ahrder than anything I have ever played.

Last night I was switching flags, and I could hear shooting, AT ME! So I turn see this guy trying to shoot me over a nole, I jump up, see him, he runs at me I pull out sniper and one shot square in the head. It was pure luck.But I have shot people from 200m and had to shoot them 4-5 times to drop them. I really hate the terrorist sniper crosshairs but really like the multiple shots. Sure the Marine sniper is higher powered but if I still have to shoot you twice I am using the Terrorist rifle, with its quick reload, to do it.

I dont want this game to be all blood and guts, I just want you to slow down a bit when I shoot you 5 times in the back. Humans cant keep running when shot 5 times (unless your 50 Cent or on COPS)
 

Bumps

n00b
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
2
If you want a game that slows you down when shot then Red Orchistra is a pretty good game. Its a mod for UT2k4.
 

Torgo

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Messages
3,149
The main reason to emphasize declining skills on low health isn't necessarily for realism, but for a stronger emphasis on health. The impact of such a change in BF2 would strengthen the need for medics in the game. You really need to be careful, because it would upset game balance if not done correctly. You could end up with a plethora of medics and not enough anti-tank.

You would have to tweak it a bit so that health given to the same character has dimishing results over time. Or adjust the "recharge" rate of a medic to dispense health. The last thing you want is a human tank being fed by two trailing medics who then becomes a juggernaut.

FYI: Same thing applies to mechanics. I remember in ET where three engineers could repair one piece of equipment so fast, you couldn't take it out.
 

Joves

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
8,822
TheGamerZ said:
Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield does that.
Ghost Recon did the slow down of team memebers as, well if I remeber right. Also if they were damaged after a mission you had to rest them before they were healed.
 

Billious

n00b
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
48
I'd be a bit happier if a 60 ton Abrams MBT wouldn't be stopped by a small tree! :rolleyes: I mean I would expect some limits other wise peeps (like me!) would just go straight through buildings etc. However, AFV's stopped by saplings? Oh come on, pull the other one!
 

Moose777

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
2,741
SiN and both the Soldier of Fortune games had body damage. Although, in comparison SiN's body damage was quite archaic to SoF's.
 

Neehario

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
90
ninethreeeleven said:
I'm not talking about full on physics and realism, I'm talking about a tank round knocking your head off. If they want arcade play, make the head not just get knocked off but frickin explode.
exploding heads will get it a M rating which EA always tends to stay away from
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
672
I think enough would be to slow movement, if hit badly blur vision or redden or blacken the players view until healed or after like 2 minute of resting. For blood, I say go as far as HL2 and no more. Any more than that is not needed for enjoyable games. Some some blood and a some red spray effects to let you know that indeed you shot the guy.
 

Shadowspawn

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2002
Messages
1,870
You don't get the blood and the guts, but if you want realism from shot damage, blinding from flash bangs and all of that, Americas Army models it quite well.
 

ManCannon

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
2,451
Torgo said:
You won't see another mass market game do this. It's realistic, but it's not fun. Soldier of Fortune II did it mainly for shock value and they admit to it. It was aimed at very specific target audience.

Frankly, players (with you being an exception) don't want to see the true horrors of war. It's not fun. My brother deals with these images everyday in the real world. It's bad. It's really, really bad. So why put this in a game? There's just a line you don't cross and exploding bodies and limbs flying around is pretty much it.

Speak for yourself buddy.

The day a game implements gameplay like Battlefield 2, with limbs whipping through the air as blood gushes over the screen is the day a big smile crosses my face. If your game doesn't have heads rolling at my feet when I'm done mowing down a bunch of grunts, then it just isn't ready yet.
 

bjork

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 29, 2001
Messages
2,125
When will we see some actual damage and pain in games?

When will we see destruction of bodies?

Why cant we see people react to bullet wound like they should?


relax. it's a game. you obviously want to go shoot someone in real life and witness their excruciating pain and blood loss, as their disfigured body rolls around on the ground until they die.

go for it! it's america, baby! the 2nd ammendment pwns j00!
 

kick@ss

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Messages
5,541
ManCannon said:
Speak for yourself buddy.

The day a game implements gameplay like Battlefield 2, with limbs whipping through the air as blood gushes over the screen is the day a big smile crosses my face. If your game doesn't have heads rolling at my feet when I'm done mowing down a bunch of grunts, then it just isn't ready yet.
You should try console gaming. Many games are developed for people of your same mentality.
 

Noodle Boy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
432
Grimmda said:
And the best part was my screen was fuzzy and shaking... It was that "head ringing" effect the game puts on you but I could still see decent enough to shoot the Marines coming up to me with a knife they were so close, I pulled out my Shotty (engineer) and was mowing those folks down (that gun is REALLY fun)

I believe it's called shell shock.
 

busta_cap

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
282
truffle00 said:
if you want the ultimate in realism feel free to go join the Army or Marines as an infantry member...bullets put holes in people, no respawn, 0 ping, and while there's no AA, I hear the resolution is FANTASTIC!

The most badass video subsystem you've ever seen... and I think AA is on by default.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
There's a lot of mis-advice going around in this thread.

Yes, having more graphic results would cause it to get an M rating, but that's it.

Lets take a look at M rated games ...hmm...

Half life series
Halo series
mgs series
GTA series
etc etc.

Gamers are NOT kids anymore, the avg age of a gamer these days is 30yrs old.

I'd also like to point out, there are MANY MANY realism fans that play games. *GASP* Some of us like to play both, realistic games and arcade games.

I fail to see how showing "damage" = less arcade/more realism when it has ZERO impact on the actual gameplay.

However I'd love to have more games that do implement a more realistic damage model that impacts both graphically and gameplay wise.

Shooting someone in the leg = limp, or even fall/crawl if you get them both a la operation flashpoint.

In the arm causes them to have poor aim, hand causes them to not be able to use it.

Body shots = incapped.

I get SOOOOOO tired of games where you literally put a round into a guys chest (with no protection) and he simply acts like nothing happened.

When I shoot someone in the chest I want them to stop, drop, ACT like they just got freaking shot.
 

Bad_Boy

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
3,282
swat 4 has a bit of that
get shot in the leg, you slow down a lot and walk with a limp
get shot in the arm, your aim sucks as your crosshair is widenend (sp?)
get shot in the head, well, you wait to respawn :p

i get what your saying though, i think games have relatively moved away from realistic things like gore and gibbing. ....blown up by a grenade, you should not only fly into the air but should also have some missing limbs. (i think that fear beta had a bit of this though). get shot in the head by a 50 cal, your head should be missing while your body intact squirting out blood (SOF2 mods :D).

games seem to be too worried about ragdolls lately, yeah they are amazing to watch, but i dont find them all to realistic at times, especially when your body shows no sign of damage after you have fallen from a 50 foot drop.

sorry if i disturbed anyone ;)
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Farcry had bullet holes and things :).

The thing is that developers still seem to be "wow'd" by seeing something simply "fall."

With the Havok engine, it is VERY possible to have something fall, then get back up. This used to be sort of a problem but it's possible these days.

I'd like to see phyiscs used in more things besides simply "objects" or "bodies at death."

As far as damage goes, I'd like to see both a mix of ragdoll + animation.

Swat 4 kind of did this, when someone didn't "die" they'd fall, and t hen they'd move around a bit, their arms/head and such, to show they are still alive but hurt.
 

Sly

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
5,747
bjork said:
When will we see some actual damage and pain in games?

Soldier of fortune baddies curl up in pain when you shoot their crotches.

When will we see destruction of bodies?

You can see the big exitwound on the bad guys ass when you shoot his crotch.

Why cant we see people react to bullet wound like they should?

SOF bad guys hold their crotches after you shoot them there.

Who gives a shit about headshots! I want to shoot the little birdies!

relax. it's a game. you obviously want to go shoot someone in real life and witness their excruciating pain and blood loss, as their disfigured body rolls around on the ground until they die.

The lizard monsters in turok will flaunder after blowing up their heads with gibs flying everywhere. That's the most grotesque death animation i've seen to date.
 

Joose

Gawd
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
Messages
516
If i dont get body damage well then at least give me some %^#@$%!ing GIBS!!!!

pussy @$$ game devs
 

paulmr

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
1,531
the funny ragdoll effects is puposely part of the game...

the game would not be as fun with real injury damage... to do that they would have to also have medical evac of some sort in the game cause in real war the seriously wounded don't just keep running...

real war wounds and injuries are gross and not much for gameplay...

links that follow are prolly nsfw

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm
 
Top