We all need a little more of this in our lives. NFT Market Collapses Just As Square Enix Sells Tomb Raider To Bet Big On Blockchain

Jagger100

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NFTs were probably a good idea that had the good parts removed. If there was attachment to something actual for instance. I have some ideas for uses of transferrable tokens but NFT as it is poisoned their potential.
 

XenIneX

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So, I'm still waiting to hear of these technologies that rival the security AND flexibility, and removal of overhead of decentralized blockchain.
Wut.
And by overhead I mean the lack of needing to maintain a web server, licenses, and so on.
Compute and storage? Free-floating, spawned fully-formed from the forehead of Zeus.

Gas Fees? Never heard of `em.
 

lopoetve

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I'm not an investor of digital jpegs, but I'm well aware of the significance of the NFT and where it will lead. I missed the NFT boat because I thought it was stupid too. And still think digital jpegs are stupid. But there's a lot great uses cases I foresee when we're talking about being able to exchange items, both physical and digital, without boundaries.
What boundaries are you trying to eliminate?
And all of these use cases are only to increase the demand for crypto.
Yup. To keep the ponzi scheme going, one must get new suckers.
Blockchains are not tamper-proof, but they're about close as we'll get with hundreds of thousands of nodes securing the network.
Sure. But why?
Oh and they're also anonymously plug and play,
Guns and drugs.
and can have applications (albeit limited right now) built on top of them. Literally any application that exists, can connect to a blockchain and use it for whatever that application needs.
So can most other storage platforms.
So, I'm still waiting to hear of these technologies that rival the security AND flexibility, and removal of overhead of decentralized blockchain. And by overhead I mean the lack of needing to maintain a web server, licenses, and so on.
You haven't eliminated it. You've multiplied it by 100,000x, put it on other folks systems, and cranked the CPU/GPU to 100% 24/7/365. As for the technologies: WORM filesystems, append-only databases, consensus based algorithms, etc. We've been doing this for 50 years. This is well understood technology - and it takes FAR less overhead, far fewer systems, is much more efficient, and currently (in general) much faster (especially compared to the BTC or ETH blockchains).

Oh, and there's not even a need for licenses. Open Source can handle pretty much any of this too.
And I'm not saying blockchain is the go to choice for any business. In fact, it's not. But to say it's useless is just being an ignorant old man yelling at cl... blockchain.
It does not currently have a use case beyond guns and drugs.
 

LukeTbk

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Stock market doesn't care about the value of the company but the confidence it brings.
This is a bit ridiculous, even for Internet hyperbolic talk.

If you look at the 500 company with the highest stock valuation and the 500 company with the lowest, you will expect to find absolutely no correlation/link with company values, we would not tend to find more value at the top than at the bottom ? Or you are putting the fact that company value influence a lot the confidence and it is all englobed by it by a little semantic trick ?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I have an undergraduate degree in mathematics and a graduate degree in engineering but I took a class in economics. I have a low opinion of economists for a wide range of reasons that is way off topic.

Milton Friedman is a Nobel prize winner, what do you think of him?

BTW Not all expertise is equal.


I don't know which economics class you took, but you would probably benefit from taking a class on econometrics.

I'll agree, there is a lot in economics that is complete bullshit theory. Most of the Austrian school of supply side economics falls into this category. It's completely made up, but it "feels" right. Some of them even try to dismiss their critics who use evidence based methodologies by suggesting that evidence does not apply to their theories (this is always a warning sign. Any theory that has built into it why observable fact can't disprove it is to be considered suspect.). Some of them also use flawed logic to try to "prove" their flawed series, like the Laffer Curve which again, is made up nonsense which makes a bunch of faulty assumptions to arrive at its conclusion.

But then there are the evidence based sides of economics, heavily based in regression analysis and observable proof. Not quite as heavy math as the differential equations and linear programming stuff I'd had to do in my engineering work, but still a solid evidence based discipline in and of itself. Lot's of it assumes linear regression, which isn't ideal, but there are other methods as well.



No, but blind deference can be just as bad. Not saying you're doing that, but some people usually invoke the opinion of experts to shut a conversation down. Especially something with as many interpretations as how economics work. Flying a plane is a much more hard and understood science.

That is exactly the issue. There is a lot of bullshit and opinions in economics because too many hacks and novices who think they can reason their way to theories, when they don't know shit about shit.

But then there is work based on solid evidence based and mathematical approaches.

The mistake is to conflate the two. Many of those competing theories are complete nonsense because they DON'T have an observable evidence based underpinning to back them up. This is why you won't see scam artists like Arthur Laffer win any Nobel Prizes or serve in the federal reserve.

If an economic theory cannot be proven through observable results like econometrics, then that economic theory - just like theories in any hard science - is to be considered false.

It does not matter what your topic is. Data and observable fact is everything, and without it your theory is worthless.

The funny part here is that John Maynard Keynes was fervently anti-econometrics when it first entered the scene in the 1930's, but after the fact most of his theories have been shown to be backed up by statistical and regression methods on actual data.
 

rinaldo00

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I don't know which economics class you took, but you would probably benefit from taking a class on econometrics.
It was just an intro macroeconomics class. When the professor of the class wrote an equation on the board and then graphed it he began talking about the slope at various points. I raised my hand and asked him why not just use the derivative of the equation. When the other students started to head for the exits the professor started waving his hands in panic and shouting "no, no, no math, no math." It was at that moment that I realized I was not going to enjoy that class.
I'll agree, there is a lot in economics that is complete bullshit theory.
As as mathematician and engineer the bullshit just gets piled too deep at times
 

lopoetve

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It was just an intro macroeconomics class. When the professor of the class wrote an equation on the board and then graphed it he began talking about the slope at various points. I raised my hand and asked him why not just use the derivative of the equation. When the other students started to head for the exits the professor started waving his hands in panic and shouting "no, no, no math, no math." It was at that moment that I realized I was not going to enjoy that class.

As as mathematician and engineer the bullshit just gets piled too deep at times
Heh. I've done advanced economics (masters degree, albeit an EMBA, with my undergrad in engineering (minors in abstract math and atmo science)) - you're both right on a lot of this. Zar is right that there's a lot of bullshit economic theories not backed by data - but ones out there that are too. You're right that a lot of basic economics instructions don't include the data and how to analyze it to determine if your theory is good or not.


And please. Never bring up that hack Laffer again. The laffer curve is a joke since there's absolutely NO mathematical way to prove where on the curve you are (and we've been trying for 40 bloody years).
 

Zarathustra[H]

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And please. Never bring up that hack Laffer again. The laffer curve is a joke since there's absolutely NO mathematical way to prove where on the curve you are (and we've been trying for 40 bloody years).

I think he is an excellent example to bring up when you want to suggest that there is junk out there :p
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It was just an intro macroeconomics class. When the professor of the class wrote an equation on the board and then graphed it he began talking about the slope at various points. I raised my hand and asked him why not just use the derivative of the equation. When the other students started to head for the exits the professor started waving his hands in panic and shouting "no, no, no math, no math." It was at that moment that I realized I was not going to enjoy that class.

I think that is because they fear scaring off, or losing (via eyes glazing over) a lot of intro to Economics students by bringing up math.

Unfortunately we live in a society that normalizes "hating math" or "just not being good at math" when math in actuality is everything.

The discipline of economics, once you really get into it does in fact rely on math a lot. They just can't have the freshman math haters dropping the intro class because someone mentioned the word "math", so in the intro stuff they take a more qualitative approach.

When I was pursuing my MBA at Bentley, I took an optional graduate level econometrics course, and again, it may not have been quite as challenging as my undergraduate differential equations class was, but it was a straight up mathematics and statistics class, tailored to the application of analyzing economic data.
 

DukenukemX

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This is a bit ridiculous, even for Internet hyperbolic talk.

If you look at the 500 company with the highest stock valuation and the 500 company with the lowest, you will expect to find absolutely no correlation/link with company values, we would not tend to find more value at the top than at the bottom ? Or you are putting the fact that company value influence a lot the confidence and it is all englobed by it by a little semantic trick ?
Take GameStop and Tesla as examples of confidence. GameStop made some people a lot of money and they did this with reddit, memes, and screwing over Hedge Funds. Diamond hands and to the moon memes was enough confidence that big time investors got into it. GameStop has no value beyond it being in the right place at the wrong time when it came to hedge fund fuckery. Then Robinhood prevented people from buying the stock which just enforces how much the stock market is rigged. Then you have Tesla which is one of the best selling cars right now and nobody has anything bad to say about them beside they don't own a Tesla. Their stock skyrocketed during the pandemic because they exhume confidence that they'll continue to grow.

Confidence is all that matters. Melvin were the ones that told Wallstreetbets that they couldn't even stop the decline of the GameStop stock, which is what started this mess. It's the same logic behind NFT's in that they don't have any value what so ever beyond you believing it does. The difference here is that instead of a photo the stock market has a business. Also NFT's have the blockchain, like that matters.
Unfortunately we live in a society that normalizes "hating math" or "just not being good at math" when math in actuality is everything.
The problem with math is that it has no place in predicting human behavior. Economics is all about human behavior and nothing more. You're trying to predict what humans want to spend and not to spend their money. Nobody knows why Netflix is losing customers but that doesn't stop people from making predictions, and they would still be wrong. Math in economics is great for calculating the busy work but does nothing beyond that. Which for more economics the busy work of economics is all that matters. You'd have a hell of a time calculating the value of NFT's because there's no equation that can do this. It's value wax and wanes depending on what people feel like it's worth like most goods and services.
 

LukeTbk

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Take GameStop and Tesla as examples of confidence.
There is around 40,000 publicly traded companies getting close to 100 trillion in the world.

If we propose the hypothetical scenario, of those 40,000 companies you can get 1% of what the current Top 100 biggest market capitalisation give back to their stockholder in the next 40 year's (net stock buyback + dividend) or 1% of the bottom 100 smallest capitalisations of those 40,000, if you try to maximise your revenue do you have to flip a coin to choose between those 2 options because you consider there is absolutely no link with probable future stockholder return and stock evaluation, none at all ? Or would you say, that of course there is a giant correlation between Expected All future stockholders profits actualized to today using an interest rate corresponding to the risk of that type of enterprise, that it is a figure of speech that it is far from perfect, fraud, unwarranted hype, people making push and dump out there and so on ?

Then Robinhood prevented people from buying the stock which just enforces how much the stock market is rigged.
That not my reading of the situation, for one buying the stock I am not sure was ever an issue, buying option and other derivative product tented to be more what people had an hard time to get and the mechanical issue for traders to achieve what was asked of them (delay, minimum fund to cover the transaction) seem to be fair enough to believe them that it was not to rig it for anyone.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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The problem with math is that it has no place in predicting human behavior. Economics is all about human behavior and nothing more. You're trying to predict what humans want to spend and not to spend their money. Nobody knows why Netflix is losing customers but that doesn't stop people from making predictions, and they would still be wrong. Math in economics is great for calculating the busy work but does nothing beyond that. Which for more economics the busy work of economics is all that matters. You'd have a hell of a time calculating the value of NFT's because there's no equation that can do this. It's value wax and wanes depending on what people feel like it's worth like most goods and services.

That depends. Individual humans are not very predictable, but in large groups statistics sets in.

In that way economics is much like any other science. You come up with a theory that X causes Y. Then you test that theory with linear regression.

Find times in history when X happened, and see if the math works out to correlate those with Y.

This works very well in macroeconomics, especially since very many of the datasets you need are large, and public. What to see if there is a correlation between money supply and year over year inflation? Linear regression is perfect for that.

This gets trickier (but not impossible) in the type of economics you are discussing, microeconomics, but quite frankly, microeconomics are a whole lot less interesting.
 

blade52x

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You haven't eliminated it. You've multiplied it by 100,000x, put it on other folks systems, and cranked the CPU/GPU to 100% 24/7/365. As for the technologies: WORM filesystems, append-only databases, consensus based algorithms, etc. We've been doing this for 50 years. This is well understood technology - and it takes FAR less overhead, far fewer systems, is much more efficient, and currently (in general) much faster (especially compared to the BTC or ETH blockchains).

The market outreach of a product being launched on Ethereum is huge. So to follow up, are there any direct p2p networks using those technologies with millions of users already online, that are plug and play (and require no maintenance) like Ethereum? Or if it just another network that I need to "sign up for" and be restricted to users that have also "signed up for" that network?

And proof-of-stake networks like Cardano use like 100 households worth of power, so they aren't cranking anything up 24/7/365.
 

lopoetve

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The market outreach of a product being launched on Ethereum is huge. So to follow up, are there any direct p2p networks using those technologies with millions of users already online, that are plug and play (and require no maintenance) like Ethereum? Or if it just another network that I need to "sign up for" and be restricted to users that have also "signed up for" that network?
Why would I want a P2P network to do that? No one has ever given a valid reason beyond guns and drugs - existing systems can handle anything else we'd want them to. And if you think Eth needs no maintenance... uh, the forks? The changes? Etc? It's constantly getting maintained - you're just looking at "I can lose a node and nothing happens" - which, again, we've been doing for a very long time.

Most networks are cross compatible. SWIFT/etc all have the ability to send money across networks. Otherwise we wouldn't have international business.
And proof-of-stake networks like Cardano use like 100 households worth of power, so they aren't cranking anything up 24/7/365.
Ok. And again, what problem are you solving? And who's really using Cardano?
 

blade52x

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Why would I want a P2P network to do that? No one has ever given a valid reason beyond guns and drugs - existing systems can handle anything else we'd want them to. And if you think Eth needs no maintenance... uh, the forks? The changes? Etc? It's constantly getting maintained - you're just looking at "I can lose a node and nothing happens" - which, again, we've been doing for a very long time.

Most networks are cross compatible. SWIFT/etc all have the ability to send money across networks. Otherwise we wouldn't have international business.

Ok. And again, what problem are you solving? And who's really using Cardano?

SWIFT is not something I can just hop onto use. Paypal, Venmo, Visa, etc all are. But I can't upload custom code to them for arithmetic processing. Which is something I may be interested in, because for my specific use case, I may like the idea of using Ethereum as both my database and processor.

And to answer your question: here's one way (and do note, you are here right now, at the forefront of being told something before most other people realize it):

Do you see how successful Masterworks has been? Now apply that to every single physical collectible in existence. And so in 2028 you'll all be here complaining of even higher crypto prices, but alongside of that, you'll also be complaining about another tulip bubble that you missed out on as physical collectible soar in value because their outreach will many orders of magnitude higher than they are right now via "physical" NFTs; as Masterworks has demonstrated what happens when you digitize and fractionalize rare artwork. If there are any 90s/retro collectibles you'd like - I suggest you consider buying them now before the generation that's building the technology tokenizes all of them. And by the way yes, this is a solution to a problem because it's a significantly better way to exchange physical collectibles compared to our legacy marketplaces, AINEC. And not all physical NFTs will be fractionalized as those that will likely be treated as new alterative investment asset classes, or even new wealth-preservation classes as our fiat currencies continue to fumble around. Many will be functionally redeemable too.

But feel free to ignore this and say that isn't a solution to a problem, because that use case doesn't really "apply to you". Despite now speculating of the financial implications of what may happen, based on what we've seen happen due to Masterworks. Instead, maybe just prepare to return at this end decade complaining, "oh now it's finite useless tangible collectibles that are causing the tulip bubble to go even higher that I missed out on, again" (while I and others are showing them off in whatever inevitable Metaverses we end up in). The only thing potentially stopping the above from happening are non-sensical government regulations, or a black swan event like a Tether bomb causing people to lose all trust in crypto beforehand.

And as for Cardano (and other newer networks like Solana, and etc). They are much better positioned (unlike Ethereum at the moment) to handle this and other coming use cases. The use case I just described is the only one I have the mental capacity for, and I don't know what other things others may be working on.
 
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serpretetsky

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Do you see how successful Masterworks has been? Now apply that to every single physical collectible in existence. ....
Can you explain this to me like I'm 5? I didn't really understand how NFT's can make the physical collectible market better.

Also, in Masterworks (i had to google this btw) people buy shares of physical art, right? So the you own a percentage of an actual unique art piece?
 

Red Falcon

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And so in 2028 you'll all be here complaining of even higher crypto prices
Hate to burst your bubble, but CDBC is going to put a permanent end to cryptocurrencies as we know them, and it is going to be far sooner than 2028.
The whole irony of this thread, including the NFT and general cryptocurrency market, is that everyone keeps thinking the current form non-centralized cryptocurrency is going to be around forever, and I guarantee you it is not, and certainly will not be for much longer.

CBDC is going to be not only the only globally-accepted digital currency, but it is going to be not only centralized but also owned by world governments, and controlled by their respective global financial megacorps like BlackRock.
But please, keep going on about how your soon-to-be non-existent cryptocurrency is "the way of the future".

If there are any 90s/retro collectibles you'd like - I suggest you consider buying them now before the generation that's building the technology tokenizes all of them. And by the way yes, this is a solution to a problem because it's a significantly better way to exchange physical collectibles compared to our legacy marketplaces, AINEC. And not all physical NFTs will be fractionalized as those that will likely be treated as new alterative investment asset classes, or even new wealth-preservation classes as our fiat currencies continue to fumble around. Many will be functionally redeemable too.
The only thing that adding an NFT to a physical item would do is allow governments to record and pair those items with the individuals who "own" them so that they could then tax those same individuals for those very items on record.
It does absolutely nothing to increase or improve the value of said items.

Only an absolute fool who understands nothing of basic economics, financials, or history would willingly invest in such lunacy.
 

Armenius

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SWIFT is not something I can just hop onto use. Paypal, Venmo, Visa, etc all are. But I can't upload custom code to them for arithmetic processing. Which is something I may be interested in, because for my specific use case, I may like the idea of using Ethereum as both my database and processor.

And to answer your question: here's one way (and do note, you are here right now, at the forefront of being told something before most other people realize it):

Do you see how successful Masterworks has been? Now apply that to every single physical collectible in existence. And so in 2028 you'll all be here complaining of even higher crypto prices, but alongside of that, you'll also be complaining about another tulip bubble that you missed out on as physical collectible soar in value because their outreach will many orders of magnitude higher than they are right now via "physical" NFTs; as Masterworks has demonstrated what happens when you digitize and fractionalize rare artwork. If there are any 90s/retro collectibles you'd like - I suggest you consider buying them now before the generation that's building the technology tokenizes all of them. And by the way yes, this is a solution to a problem because it's a significantly better way to exchange physical collectibles compared to our legacy marketplaces, AINEC. And not all physical NFTs will be fractionalized as those that will likely be treated as new alterative investment asset classes, or even new wealth-preservation classes as our fiat currencies continue to fumble around. Many will be functionally redeemable too.

But feel free to ignore this and say that isn't a solution to a problem, because that use case doesn't really "apply to you". Despite now speculating of the financial implications of what may happen, based on what we've seen happen due to Masterworks. Instead, maybe just prepare to return at this end decade complaining, "oh now it's finite useless tangible collectibles that are causing the tulip bubble to go even higher that I missed out on, again" (while I and others are showing them off in whatever inevitable Metaverses we end up in). The only thing potentially stopping the above from happening are non-sensical government regulations, or a black swan event like a Tether bomb causing people to lose all trust in crypto beforehand.

And as for Cardano (and other newer networks like Solana, and etc). They are much better positioned (unlike Ethereum at the moment) to handle this and other coming use cases. The use case I just described is the only one I have the mental capacity for, and I don't know what other things others may be working on.
You didn't identify the supposed problem that Masterworks is solving.
 

legcramp

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You didn't identify the supposed problem that Masterworks is solving.
Correct me if I am wrong blade52x but Masterwork is pretty much using these artworks as assets and people (lots of people it seems) are purchasing their shares of these artworks.
 

DukenukemX

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That depends. Individual humans are not very predictable, but in large groups statistics sets in.

In that way economics is much like any other science. You come up with a theory that X causes Y. Then you test that theory with linear regression.

Find times in history when X happened, and see if the math works out to correlate those with Y.

This works very well in macroeconomics, especially since very many of the datasets you need are large, and public. What to see if there is a correlation between money supply and year over year inflation? Linear regression is perfect for that.

This gets trickier (but not impossible) in the type of economics you are discussing, microeconomics, but quite frankly, microeconomics are a whole lot less interesting.
The idea here is that you can mostly predict what humans do with their money by looking at history, but then something happens and the market shifts dramatically in another direction without warning. You know, like right now when inflation is high and suddenly the Dow Jones, Bit Coin, and everything in between is falling in value because nobody thought that inflation would change peoples purchase habits. This hasn't happened in recent history so of course nobody could see this happening with statistics. Anyone with common sense would see that people will either stop buying things that are unnecessary like Netflix, or go without name brand version of products to save a buck. This is why we've had 2008 and why 2022 might be the next 2008. Human behavior is hard to predict with math.
Can you explain this to me like I'm 5? I didn't really understand how NFT's can make the physical collectible market better.

Also, in Masterworks (i had to google this btw) people buy shares of physical art, right? So the you own a percentage of an actual unique art piece?
He can't because NFT's serve only one purpose and that's to create free money through FOMO. I guarantee you that 99.99% of people who've heard of NFT's still don't know how a NFT works. Even the people here who explain the benefits of NFT's don't know entirely how NFT's work. "You can throw code into the Etherium block chain and make it do things." All an NFT does is prove that you own it. The photo acts like a visualization of the ownership of this NFT. The photo is not proof of ownership. You don't own the photo. The photo is there to please your monkey brain and nothing more.
 

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Zarathustra[H]

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The idea here is that you can mostly predict what humans do with their money by looking at history, but then something happens and the market shifts dramatically in another direction without warning. You know, like right now when inflation is high and suddenly the Dow Jones, Bit Coin, and everything in between is falling in value because nobody thought that inflation would change peoples purchase habits. This hasn't happened in recent history so of course nobody could see this happening with statistics. Anyone with common sense would see that people will either stop buying things that are unnecessary like Netflix, or go without name brand version of products to save a buck. This is why we've had 2008 and why 2022 might be the next 2008. Human behavior is hard to predict with math.

No one should be surprised about the current wall Street and Bitcoin downturns.

They have been talking about the potential for market downturns in the news for a few months now, ever since the fed started talking about raising interest rates. They meet current expected models of what happens when you raise interest rates. The fed is trying to do it slowly as to not trigger a recession, but that's going to be difficult. We may still avoid one, but I'd say there's probably only a 25% chance of that.

If any of this is a surprise to anyone, they just haven't been paying attention. Wall Street has been hooked on those sweet sweet low interest rates for a long time now, and as they start going up, they always irrationally panic and sell off for a bit before they come to their senses. Happens every time. So much for the "rational market".

At this point the drops we are seeing are just indications of Investor fears that a recession might be coming, as the fundamentals in the market haven't changed yet, but something might still be coming. If it does, I think it will be a normal small market dip though. Not too big. Nothing at all like the financial crisis. We are in for s little adjustment for sure, but with demand outstripping supply as much as it is in the market today, we have a good bit we can fall before we have any serious pain, like mass unemployment or anything like that. (But labor figures are always a lagging indicator, so we will see) It's almost as if the economy is just adjusting to the current realities of the labor market.

Also, remember, the economy is not the stock market, and the stock market is not the economy.

And even if this weren't completely predicted by current models, this is how the physical sciences work too.

You can observe the sun rising every morning for a hundred years, but something different could still happen tomorrow. It's not very likely as we have a lot of historical data to base our confidence on, but something could always change forcing a new understanding of the science.
 
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Armenius

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Correct me if I am wrong blade52x but Masterwork is pretty much using these artworks as assets and people (lots of people it seems) are purchasing their shares of these artworks.
I got that, but that still doesn't define the problem that Masterworks set out to solve.
 

N4CR

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All the people wondering why GPUs are in stock crack me up, reminding me of the moonbros shilling everything but crypto to blame.
 

kirbyrj

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All the people wondering why GPUs are in stock crack me up, reminding me of the moonbros shilling everything but crypto to blame.

I'm going down to Bestbuy to buy a PS5...oh wait...must be OOS because of crypto even though you can't mine anything with it...
 

LukeTbk

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I got that, but that still doesn't define the problem that Masterworks set out to solve.
From my very little knowledge (pretty much ads on podcast about that type of solutions)

Some people that want to invest in prestigious art does not want to go thought the regular market for them and either want to diversify or invest less than the price of a single prestigious art piece, which make derivative product interesting to them in the same way someone wanting to invest in Berkshire Hathaway but want to invest way less than half a million in it could look for ways to do it that is not to simply buy one stock on the stock exchange.

Let alone not having to be in charge of storing/managing them/selling them and so on. I am not fully certain how/what NFT would add to this, make it possible to resell your Masterwork/Masterwork like (because you still need a trusted company that manage, buy/sell the physical asset) more easy than currently ? It seem you always still need a trusted company at the end anyway if there is a physical asset involved and if a trusted company is there, could they not let you resell your share like a stock market ?, Masterwork already has a secondary market that do work without it, but it is easy to see how that part could be replaced by a blockchain solution.


At this point the drops we are seeing are just indications of Investor fears that a recession might be coming,
Must admit that I find this a bit counterintuitive, why bitcoin investor fears a recession ? They fear new dumb money will stop during a recession ? Because if we think as bitcoin has a gold replacement, a recession incoming should not be particularly bad no ? When people thought a giant world recession was right on the corner because of COVID, did crypto drop ?
 
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LukeTbk

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I'm going down to Bestbuy to buy a PS5...oh wait...must be OOS because of crypto even though you can't mine anything with it...

That is true and a valid point (cars would be an other example of a chips shortage despite I doubt being the type of chips people use to mine), but it is hard to know the full knock off effect, how much does Microsoft/AMD did less console APU because of how attractive using TSMC space for something else got and how much it got more attractive because of crypto pression ? How much the crypto pression made other part of PCB rarer for other product down the line and so on.

That could an other obvious factor:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/11/pandemic-boom-in-pc-sales-is-over.html

In 2021 PC got popular like if it was 2012 again.
 

N4CR

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I'm going down to Bestbuy to buy a PS5...oh wait...must be OOS because of crypto even though you can't mine anything with it...
I think that's a little different though as additional factors involved. You can still buy a ps4 at retail price though. Thats like complaining not being able to buy a 3090/6900, while rest is stocked.
This is an onflow of people being stuck at home. And still happening while gpus are in shelves now confirms that, demand is higher as its a bigger market with similar supply constraints.
 

DukenukemX

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You could, but why would you want to?
Probably because the PS5's MSRP is $500 and the amount of power it eats is around 200W. Compared to GPU's where their MSRP is higher as well as the demand, making getting one harder. The downside would be that 5 PS5's are probably not as efficient as 5 GPU's in a single PC. Plus 5 PS5's need more space compared to a rack of GPU's.
 
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Red Falcon

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BlackRock CEO: Here's Where Next 1,000 Small Companies that Get to $1 Billion Valuation Will Come From

“Forget cryptocurrencies, 5G, electric vehicles, and self-driving cars. Forget the blockchain, quantum computing, artificial intelligence, and virtual reality. Forget NFTs, apps, space exploration, and cloud computing.
"These are all digital technologies, and although most investors don't realize it, they are yesterday's news... and are about to get steamrolled by something even bigger – which is just now hitting an inflection point.
Hmm, looks like NFTs aren't on that list.
Let's take a look at closer that list.

What do we have here... SynBio, DNA sequencing, mRNA drug trials...
It might just be a market scam, certainly, but when the World Economic Forum is pushing these very agenda items with transhumanism at the top of their list, I would easily predict that cryptocurrencies and NFTs will soon be at a junk value at best in the near-future, or simply absorbed by CBDC and then promptly confiscated and/or banned outright.


From 2018:


World Economic Forum CBDC White Paper - November 19, 2021:
https://www.weforum.org/reports/digital-currency-governance-consortium-white-paper-series


Bottom line:
Cryptocurrencies in their current form are doomed, and the future variant of NFTs will be used for granular taxation of "owned" items as a stepping stone for CBDC integration of physical goods.
Cryptocurrency and NFT "enthusiasts" should enjoy the dark cyberpunk future that they themselves prototyped for those in power, and they deserve exactly what is coming for them and their precious blockchains. :borg:
 

blade52x

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From my very little knowledge (pretty much ads on podcast about that type of solutions)

Some people that want to invest in prestigious art does not want to go thought the regular market for them and either want to diversify or invest less than the price of a single prestigious art piece, which make derivative product interesting to them in the same way someone wanting to invest in Berkshire Hathaway but does not want to invest way less than half a million in it could look for ways to do it that is not to simply buy one stock on the stock exchange.

Let alone not having to be in charge of storing/managing them/selling them and so on. I am not fully certain how/what NFT would add to this, make it possible to resell your Masterwork/Masterwork like (because you still need a trusted company that manage, buy/sell the physical asset) more easy than currently ? It seem you always still need a trusted company at the end anyway if there is a physical asset involved and if a trusted company is there, could they not let you resell your share like a stock market ?, Masterwork already has a secondary market that do work without it, but it is easy to see how that part could be replaced by a blockchain solution.

Pretty much this. Take Masterworks secondary market and replace it with something like Ethereum. What the NFT enables is the ability to exchange with the entire world. It increases the liquidity of the underlying asset ten-fold if not more because the NFT can be traded directly to anyone on that blockchain (and done so safely). But you're right you do need a trusted company to issue tokens as well handle the redemption for any NFTs that may be traded back in. You can't be buying discounted physical NFTs minted by randoms, otherwise you'll mostly likely end up with NFTs backed by nothing. But what you can do is buy a NFT minted by an entity like Masterworks that's ended up in the hands of a random.


He can't because NFT's serve only one purpose and that's to create free money through FOMO. I guarantee you that 99.99% of people who've heard of NFT's still don't know how a NFT works. Even the people here who explain the benefits of NFT's don't know entirely how NFT's work. "You can throw code into the Etherium block chain and make it do things." All an NFT does is prove that you own it. The photo acts like a visualization of the ownership of this NFT. The photo is not proof of ownership. You don't own the photo. The photo is there to please your monkey brain and nothing more.

I'm getting too tired for this. I don't know even know what you're talking about anymore. I haven't been discussing jpeg NFTs at all. At this point, there's no way to really explain anything I have any more clearly. I'll just leave it to your ignorant self to be back here in 202x telling people to stop wasting money and burning energy buying or even exchanging "ponzi-scheme" fractions of PSA10 Charizards like they're some kind of currency that add up to $5-10M per card instead of the $500K or whatever astronomical values they've already reached even prior to physical NFTs.
 
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serpretetsky

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Pretty much this. Take Masterworks secondary market and replace it with something like Ethereum. What the NFT enables is the ability to exchange with the entire world. It increases the liquidity of the underlying asset ten-fold if not more because the NFT can be traded directly to anyone on that blockchain (and done so safely). But you're right you do need a trusted company to issue tokens as well handle the redemption for any NFTs that may be traded back in. You can't be buying discounted physical NFTs minted by randoms, otherwise you'll mostly likely end up with NFTs backed by nothing. But what you can do is buy a NFT minted by an entity like Masterworks that's ended up in the hands of a random.
I'm not sure if I understood you. so If I buy a physical unique from some random, and the NFT (minted by say Masterworks) says that he owns the original, how can I guarnatee I'm getting the original physical unique (as oppose to a duplicate)?
 

blade52x

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I'm not sure if I understood you. so If I buy a physical unique from some random, and the NFT (minted by say Masterworks) says that he owns the original, how can I guarnatee I'm getting the original physical unique (as oppose to a duplicate)?

If the random holding the NFT sells you the NFT minted by the original entity, your guarantee is through that entity.

The random can also try to sell you a "fake NFT" that he minted that looks like the one minted by the original entity, except any fakes will have always have contract address and token ID mismatches between it and the true original, both of which are public information and validated by thousands of validator nodes on that blockchain. As a buyer, the safest bet would to deploy a "buy offer contract" (which you could do through any NFT marketplace, or even directly from your crypto wallet if you're a savy enough user) where you offer some amount of crypto for the original NFT by its address and token ID. Lots of NFT marketplaces help with this process too. Your buy contract will then reject anything but the true original being exchanged through it. As a seller, it's easier because you're only looking for crypto, so you deploy a sell contract for some amount of crypto and you're done.
 
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LukeTbk

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I'm not sure if I understood you. so If I buy a physical unique from some random, and the NFT (minted by say Masterworks) says that he owns the original, how can I guarnatee I'm getting the original physical unique (as oppose to a duplicate)?
Say a company like Masterworks buy 20 Rembrandt, Pollock, Picasso, Van Gogh type of painting for 320 millions dollars.

They sells 1/10000th of an index fund to people $3350 has an NFT one can buy and resell has you want, the index fund work has the owner of the NFT receive 1/10,000 of the money (I imagine in the form of etherum ?) when one or all of those artworks are sold one days, if they are sold 200 millions you receive $2,000 worth, if they are sold $400 millions you receive $4,000.

The interesting part is buying part of complicated and high value art piece, not whole ones (and easily to have at home and sell simply on ebay) I think.

The masterwork type of company use the art world company that guarantee authenticity like a regular action house.
 

serpretetsky

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so i think what you are both saying is that masterworks would still function the same, but with nfts i can buy and sell on any random marketplace instead of buy sell through stock market or masterworks marketplace?
 

LukeTbk

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so i think what you are both saying is that masterworks would still function the same, but with nfts i can buy and sell on any random marketplace instead of buy sell through stock market or masterworks marketplace?
It is maybe that I just not understand what it would change yes (could it make easier to sell to an Iranian from some country or Russian right now, maybe currently some things are closed or a bit more expensive than what it would become ?), that my understanding, would virtually change nothing, but that virtually nothing can be enough to completlely change in the mind of people and popularity (see Robinhood vs Questtrade or IPod versus other mp3 players of the time).
 

DukenukemX

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I wouldn't put NFT's next to electric vehicles and 5G, though I have my issues with everything he just listed, but not on the same level as NFT's.
What do we have here... SynBio, DNA sequencing, mRNA drug trials...
It might just be a market scam, certainly, but when the World Economic Forum is pushing these very agenda items with transhumanism at the top of their list, I would easily predict that cryptocurrencies and NFTs will soon be at a junk value at best in the near-future, or simply absorbed by CBDC and then promptly confiscated and/or banned outright.
The fact that he mentions NFT's showed that he's just trying to get attention through reaction. All the other stuff he listed is just something people talk about frequently in the media. Though if Ray Kurzweil is correct in his predictions then soon medical technology will be the next big thing. You could potentially reverse aging, cure cancer, and reverse nearly any genetic aliment known to man. People would pay big money not to die, as we've learned from the health insurance industry in America.

I'm getting too tired for this. I don't know even know what you're talking about anymore.
Says the person promoting NFT's.
I haven't been discussing jpeg NFTs at all. At this point,
so-randowis-com-34026675.png

there's no way to really explain anything I have any more clearly.
You haven't explained anything. You've just been ad hominem peoples age as a factor of their their lack of your lack of understanding of NFTs.
I'll just leave it to your ignorant self to be back here in 202x telling people to stop wasting money and burning energy buying or even exchanging "ponzi-scheme" fractions of PSA10 Charizards like they're some kind of currency that add up to $5-10M per card instead of the $500K or whatever astronomical values they've already reached even prior to physical NFTs.
I never got into Pokemon but I had to look up that Charizard thing and it's worth $50,000.00. The crap people are willing to pay for. You seem to know about this crap more than anyone else here. Nothing you explained to LukeTbk makes sense as in how NFT's add any value to anything. Much of what you say looks like something out of a MLM hand book. Economists have not said great things about BitCoin, blockchain, and also through extension NFT's.

 

Zarathustra[H]

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Someone please explain to me their theory about the benefit of attaching an NFT to a physical good?

Possession is 9/10th's of the law. If you have it you have it. Why would you want to do that?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I haven't had time to watch the video, but just from the title I kind of agree with him.

I think the blockchain ledger has some real promise for secure transactions and other applications (note I said secure, not anonymous) and maybe even applications we can't possibly imagine yet. It's a interesting cryptographic concept that will over time be integrated as a security feature into all sorts of platforms.

I just haven't seen any proposed application yet that makes me stand up and proclaim, that will be game changing, or even remotely valuable.

I feel like the blockchain will have a greater impact in more subtle and invisible ways integrated into the back end of all sorts of platforms to boost security.

I don't think physical NFT's are one of them. Far from it.
 

schoolslave

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I haven't had time to watch the video, but just from the title I kind of agree with him.

I think the blockchain ledger has some real promise for secure transactions and other applications (note I said secure, not anonymous) and maybe even applications we can't possibly imagine yet. It's a interesting cryptographic concept that will over time be integrated as a security feature into all sorts of platforms.

I just haven't seen any proposed application yet that makes me stand up and proclaim, that will be game changing, or even remotely valuable.

I feel like the blockchain will have a greater impact in more subtle and invisible ways integrated into the back end of all sorts of platforms to boost security.

I don't think physical NFT's are one of them. Far from it.

Blockchain has been a solution looking for a problem for what... almost 10 years now?
Fundamentally I think blockchain has some benefit, but in practice nothing ReVoLuTiOnArY has materialized - not even in supply chain/logistics where you'd think a technology like this is a perfect fit.
 
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