Videocardz: AMD promises RDNA 2 (Navi 2X) late 2020, confirms RDNA 3 (Navi 3X)

Snowdog

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If big Navi is RDNA 2 (with RT, VRS and nice perf/watt improvements), then they wait may be longer than expected:
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-promises-rdna-2-navi-2x-late-2020-confirms-rdna-3-navi-3x

"The Navi 2X architecture is expected ‘at the end of 2020’, while Navi 3X somewhere in 2021."

AMD-Radeon-RX-RDNA-2-2020.jpg

AMD-RDNA-Power-Efficiency-2.jpg
 
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They revealed RDNA2 (which we all knew about) and others things such as Ray Tracing (which we all already knew about). What to keep in mind:

  • This was an event for investors, not people who "pawn noobs for the lulzzzz".
  • AMD is a business, businesses exist to make money.
  • Video cards produce lower margins than server CPUs.
  • AMD keeps dropping hints that they will be addressing the 4K segment which is relatively small...and that anyone buying a video card is in as a whole, an already small segment of the market.
Hopefully that will negate the dumb-dumb comments about how AMD will fail and the apocalypse will happen because someone wasn't hitting a certain FPS number.... hopefully.
 

Algrim

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As long as it has decent performance to dollars ratio it will find a home in my next Zen-based computer system. If AMD happens to meet or exceed nVidia's flagship, so much the better, though I typically buy middle of the road video cards.
 

RanceJustice

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I am interested to see RDNA2 cards arriving as soon as possible. I admit it is a bit disappointing if it will be an end of the year thing,especially if the RDNA3 is scheduled for "somewhere in 2021" . I know we're expecting Nvidia RTX 3000 series cards later this year so RDNA2 will be competing against those; hopefully favorably, across a modest range of performance points, reasonably priced, and launched in a timely fashion. I've been watching the development of things and I applaud AMD for their excellent drivers on Linux - 90% open source and built on a common base, where the last 10% proprietary binaries are something of an add-on for those who want/need them - but I'd like to see a similar approach on WIndows and competitive high-range GPU hardware for my next purchase. (ie RTX 3080 Ti or 3080 range, near to trading blows, ideally with better pricing )

Hardware raytracing support is great, especially if it is predicated on an open spec rather than proprietary Nvidia style RTX features. I really hope that RDNA2 chips don't simply focus on Microsoft's DX12 DXR spec, but raytracing with Vulkan for wider compatibility. With RDNA2 powered GPUs in both the PS5 and Xbox Series X( I can't believe they are going with that name! They already have an Xbox One X!) , and the one article suggesting that they're going to be very similar in design to PC GPUs, it will hopefully make cross platform / porting even easier.
 

MangoSeed

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Nvidia rtx is a toolkit to assist developers with the dx12 dxr spec. It isn't proprietary.

It's amazing how many people are confused about this. RTX is just branding for DirectX 12 and Vulkan raytracing support.
 

reaper12

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Hardware raytracing support is great, especially if it is predicated on an open spec rather than proprietary Nvidia style RTX features

You misunderstand the situation. Ray Tracing is already predicated on an open spec. It's using Microsoft's DXR and Vulkan. when a game uses Ray Tracing, Microsoft's DXR calls whatever libraries needed for the hardware in the PC to run the game. At the moment only Nvidia have a Ray Tracing solution, RTX. There is no AMD solution to call, as AMD haven't provided hardware or software support for Ray Tracing yet.
 

reaper12

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Nvidia rtx is a toolkit to assist developers with the dx12 dxr spec. It isn't proprietary.

It's amazing how many people are confused about this. RTX is just branding for DirectX 12 and Vulkan raytracing support.

But, RTX is proprietary. Nvidia's libraries won't work on AMD's cards. AMD's solution will also be proprietary.

People are confused at the moment because they think Ray Tracing is locked to Nvidia.
 

Snowdog

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It's amazing how many people are confused about this. RTX is just branding for DirectX 12 and Vulkan raytracing support.

More than just branding.

If anything NVidia was instrumental in MS including DXR in DX12. If there was no NVidia HW, MS would not have implemented the API. We will never know how much of this was driven behind the scenes by NVidia, but I expect most of it.

Vulkan being open source, makes NVidia contribution much more clear. NVidia wrote ALL the Vulkan Raytracing code. It's RTX specific right now. The Kronos group is going to write a more generic API, but it will be based on the NVidia work.

The APIs are open, but AMD has a lot of catch up work supporting them. They will probably have DXR support first, but Vulkan may lag, because there is no generic API yet.
 

Marees

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More than just branding.

If anything NVidia was instrumental in MS including DXR in DX12. If there was no NVidia HW, MS would not have implemented the API. We will never know how much of this was driven behind the scenes by NVidia, but I expect most of it.

Vulkan being open source, makes NVidia contribution much more clear. NVidia wrote ALL the Vulkan Raytracing code. It's RTX specific right now. The Kronos group is going to write a more generic API, but it will be based on the NVidia work.

The APIs are open, but AMD has a lot of catch up work supporting them. They will probably have DXR support first, but Vulkan may lag, because there is no generic API yet.

Wouldn't PS5 be using something similar to Vulkan or will that be totally different?
 

Snowdog

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Wouldn't PS5 be using something similar to Vulkan or will that be totally different?

PS4 uses it's own proprietary graphics API. Apparently it's quite good. I would expect a continuation for PS5.
 

Snowdog

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MangoSeed

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But, RTX is proprietary. Nvidia's libraries won't work on AMD's cards. AMD's solution will also be proprietary.

That’s not a very useful observation though. It’s like saying Nvidia’s DirectX12 driver doesnt work on AMD cards. Point is that games make raytracing calls to DirectX/DXR not to some proprietary RTX nvidia library.

Snowdog is right about Vulkan. Vulkan raytracing is using proprietary Nvidia extensions for now so it’s unlikely any current Vulkan raytracing implementation will ever run on AMD cards.
 

MangoSeed

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More than just branding.

If anything NVidia was instrumental in MS including DXR in DX12. If there was no NVidia HW, MS would not have implemented the API. We will never know how much of this was driven behind the scenes by NVidia, but I expect most of it.

That may be the case but it doesn’t support the proprietary argument. As things stand today RTX is just Nvidia’s marketing for DXR support.

DXR is owned by Microsoft and by default is vendor agnostic. Navi2x will be able to process the same DXR calls as Turing/Ampere.
 

reaper12

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More than just branding.

If anything NVidia was instrumental in MS including DXR in DX12. If there was no NVidia HW, MS would not have implemented the API. We will never know how much of this was driven behind the scenes by NVidia, but I expect most of it.

Vulkan being open source, makes NVidia contribution much more clear. NVidia wrote ALL the Vulkan Raytracing code. It's RTX specific right now. The Kronos group is going to write a more generic API, but it will be based on the NVidia work.

The APIs are open, but AMD has a lot of catch up work supporting them. They will probably have DXR support first, but Vulkan may lag, because there is no generic API yet.

DXR is platform agnostic, it doesn't care what hardware is underneath. How do you know that Nvidia was instrumental in MS including DXR in DX12? I would say that DXR was coming regardless. There is also no way in hell that Microsoft designed DXR without AMD, their console partner.

For Vulkan, Yes, Nvidia wrote all the Vulkan Ray Tracing code. But, it's not what you think. They just wrote an extension, VKRay, that Vulkan uses. AMD will have to write their own extension when they finally release their own Ray Tracing capable hardware.

The Generic API that Kronos group are talking about is for software Ray Tracing that will work across all hardware and platforms. Microsoft might follow suit with DXR, but, at the moment, the software fallback for Ray Tracing has to be provided by the hardware vendor. For example, Nvidia enabling Ray Tracing support for their Pascal cards.
 

reaper12

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That’s not a very useful observation though. It’s like saying Nvidia’s DirectX12 driver doesnt work on AMD cards. Point is that games make raytracing calls to DirectX/DXR not to some proprietary RTX nvidia library.

Maybe I was a little pedantic :) But, Golden Tiger should have made that point and not made it sound like RTX was open to everyone, it isn't. DXR is open to everyone.

Snowdog is right about Vulkan. Vulkan raytracing is using proprietary Nvidia extensions for now so it’s unlikely any current Vulkan raytracing implementation will ever run on AMD cards.

All that's happened in Vulkan is that Nvidia have wrote their own Ray Tracing extension, VK Ray. Of course AMD cards won't work using Nvidia's implementation, just like AMD cards won't work using RTX in DXR. AMD will have to create their own extension when they have their own Ray Tracing capable hardware out there.
 

MangoSeed

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All that's happened in Vulkan is that Nvidia have wrote their own Ray Tracing extension, VK Ray. Of course AMD cards won't work using Nvidia's implementation, just like AMD cards won't work using RTX in DXR. AMD will have to create their own extension when they have their own Ray Tracing capable hardware out there.

I hope that’s not the case and Kronos adds RT support to the core Vulkan api. It would be silly for devs to have to code two different RT paths using different nvidia and amd extensions.
 

Snowdog

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That may be the case but it doesn’t support the proprietary argument. As things stand today RTX is just Nvidia’s marketing for DXR support.


RTX is NVidias specific RT HW, NVidia will write drivers/extensions to support whatever APIs exist, for their Hardware.

Note that Nvidia Pascal cards also support DXR, but they are not RTX.

So RTX does not equal NVidia branding/marketing of DXR.
 

MangoSeed

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RTX is NVidias specific RT HW, NVidia will write drivers/extensions to support whatever APIs exist, for their Hardware.

Note that Nvidia Pascal cards also support DXR, but they are not RTX.

So RTX does not equal NVidia branding/marketing of DXR.

CPUs can run DirectX/DXR/Vulkan too.

GeForce is Nvidia’s branding for its hardware that accelerates DirectX/OpenGL/Vulkan. RTX is no different. I don’t see the point in putting RTX on a pedestal.
 

Snowdog

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CPUs can run DirectX/DXR/Vulkan too.

GeForce is Nvidia’s branding for its hardware that accelerates DirectX/OpenGL/Vulkan. RTX is no different. I don’t see the point in putting RTX on a pedestal.

Not putting it on a pedestal. Just correcting you inaccuracies. You started this by claiming "RTX is just branding for DirectX 12 and Vulkan raytracing support. "

To call NVidia efforts "just branding" is disingenuous. NVidia is the lead player in this. They spearheaded these efforts, and wrote ALL the Vulkan Raytracing code, and were likely nearly as influential defining Microsoft DXR API.

Late this year we will finally get a response from AMD, that will run the DXR API, though it will still likely require game updates to support it.
 

MangoSeed

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Not putting it on a pedestal. Just correcting you inaccuracies. You started this by claiming "RTX is just branding for DirectX 12 and Vulkan raytracing support. "

To call NVidia efforts "just branding" is disingenuous. NVidia is the lead player in this. They spearheaded these efforts, and wrote ALL the Vulkan Raytracing code, and were likely nearly as influential defining Microsoft DXR API.

Late this year we will finally get a response from AMD, that will run the DXR API, though it will still likely require game updates to support it.

We’re talking about different things. I’m not taking anything away from nvidia. Their R&D efforts have clearly paid off.

What’s strange is that you’re equating the “RTX” brand with Nvidia R&D and developer relations.
 

Snowdog

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Anyway, getting off topic.

The unexpected info from Financial Day is:

RDNA2/Big Navi is only in Late 2020, Many were expecting a spring release.
Big improvement of perf/watt with RDNA 2. I don't think anyone was expecting that.

Sounds like a killer chip. Top Stack performance, HW RT and VRS support, and 50% perf/watt boost.
 

Snowdog

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Now that we have seen the console chips, it adds further evidence to RDNA2 Big Navi being a killer chip.

XBSX essentially has 52 active CUs, with RTX 2080 horsepower. Already Demonstrated RT HW. Very impressive stuff. I expect Big Navi discrete will go much bigger than that, 80 CUs seem very likely for top spec, fully enabled GPU.

PS5 clocking it's GPU at over 2.2GHz in an APU points to a lot of clocking headroom.

All evidence points to Big Navi that is really going to deliver the goods. Too bad we have to wait so long for it.
 
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