UK Parliament Members Urge Brits To Boycott Amazon

rgMekanic

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Members of Parliament in the UK are furious at Amazon, after it was revealed it paid £7.4 million of corporation tax in 2016 - less than HALF the amount paid in 2015. And are urging Brits to Boycott Amazon in return. In a statement last night, Amazon said: "We pay all our taxes required in the UK and every country where we operate."

While I can understand Parliament members being upset at the amount of taxes Amazon has been paying, if that is the amount required I don't see the problem. If they feel Amazon and other multinational companies should be paying more, they need to change the laws.

"It remains outrageous that Amazon are so blasé that they can ignore all the anger that their failure to pay fair tax in this country. It is a scandal they are deliberately manipulating the way they do their business for no other purpose than to avoid tax."
 

focbde

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Whilst I agree with the public sentiment (and the politicians are just riding that wave of sentiment, naturally) that Amazon and other large multinational firms are exploiting loopholes, the fact is that the loopholes exist. Anyone working for those companies in a financial capacity has a fiduciary responsibility to ensure the company pays as little tax as possible within the bounds of the law. If, for example, they paid more tax than is legally necessary, they could face repercussions as a result. There are some ongoing arguments on this subject, regarding whether an individual would (or could) be held accountable for NOT exploiting tax loopholes but for the moment...

As others have said, the law is the issue here. If you have a problem with companies paying too little tax, then change the rules.

The fact is that a lot of these loopholes exist from previous times when various countries were trying to entice business to their shores - Ireland is a great example.
 

HoffY

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The problem with changing laws is that too many of these leeches see it as career suicide, so won't do it.
And yet, they got enough bonuses and remuneration for their time ini politics that they are that well off they will never ever ben a normal citizen ever again.

yeah, Pot meet Kettle.
 

BulletDust

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As tax paying citizens, all you people that claim "Well damn! Why not just fine them like every other successful American company!" really need to understand, clear as crystal, that you're all making up the shortfall for large corporations using tax haven loopholes - While the top 1% of greed fueled corporations pay next to no tax, the governments of the world are trying to work out ways that the average tax paying citizen can make up the shortfall as it costs money to run a country.

Talk about shooting one's self in the damn foot, stop being so pathetically complaisent! If you believe laws need to be changed, start harassing the shit out of your local representative - Contrary to popular modern opinion backed up by the media empires of the world (Murdoch) spreading propaganda for the wealthy, you do have a voice, bloody use it!

As consumers, vote with your wallet and stop being so easily lead by consumerism and marketing. It's a little difficult for governments to invoke change when corporations grow far larger than the governments themselves and it's the corporate lobbyists pulling the strings as opposed to the governments themselves.
 
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daglesj

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As tax paying citizens, all you people that claim "Well damn! Why not just fine them like every other successful American company!" really need to understand, clear as crystal, that you're all making up the shortfall for large corporations using tax haven loopholes - While the top 1% of greed fueled corporations pay next to no tax, the governments of the world are trying to work out ways that the average tax paying citizen can make up the shortfall as it costs money to run a country.

Talk about shooting one's self in the damn foot, stop being so pathetically complaisent! If you believe laws need to be changed, start harassing the shit out of your local representative - Contrary to popular modern opinion backed up by the media empires of the world (Murdoch) spreading propaganda for the wealthy, you do have a voice, bloody use it!

As consumers, vote with your wallet and stop being so easily lead by consumerism and marketing. It's a little difficult for governments to invoke change when corporations to grow far larger than the governments themselves and it's the corporate lobbyists pulling the strings as opposed to the governments themselves.

This guy gets it.

Start using your vote more wisely in future is a start. Remember current governments and corporations are NOT working for you. That needs to change.
 

BulletDust

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This guy gets it.

Start using your vote more wisely in future is a start. Remember current governments and corporations are NOT working for you. That needs to change.

They're dictating to the governments of the word how they'll pay tax! Not only is it morally retarded, how nice would it be if we could all do the same? Every time the average consumer finds a loophole it's taxed to oblivion! If the governments of the word have their way, pretty soon there'll be no cash, everything will be electronic to stop the cash economy.
 

daglesj

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They're dictating to the governments of the word how they'll pay tax! Not only is it morally retarded, how nice would it be if we could all do the same? Every time the average consumer finds a loophole it's taxed to oblivion! If the governments of the word have their way, pretty soon there'll be no cash, everything will be electronic to stop the cash economy.

Yes they can dictate all they like because other than I think Bernie all the GOP and Dem politicians are fully bought and paid for by the PACs and Corps to work exclusively for them and not the people.

government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations
 

Mr Carrot

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Members of parliament are like congressmen, they don't get to propose much if any legislation - that is the proviso of government (though private members bills can and do make it onto statute books).

The vast majority of this aggitation comes from the hard left wing of our left wing party (Labour) - though it's finding purchase in the centre right too because the false narrative of fairness over efficiency is pervasive at the moment.

So in short, this isn't the UK government moaning, you have similar people moaning about similar issues in the US Congress (Bernie) - all of whom are either fifth columnist, communists or morons who don't understand how business functions. Especially a business like Amazon which is incredibly keen to funnel revenue back into the business as investment - which is why tax obligations are so small.

In the end the problem is Corporation Tax and other business taxes, they are moral taxes which serve little to no long term macro benefit, but end up creating an ideological distortion amongst both the legislative and electorate. In reality Amazon is paying billions of pounds of tax - via the salaries of its employees, rates levied on utilities and property etc. It is a nuanced tax piece because tax policy is needlessly byzantine.
 

daglesj

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Members of parliament are like congressmen, they don't get to propose much if any legislation - that is the proviso of government (though private members bills can and do make it onto statute books).

The vast majority of this aggitation comes from the hard left wing of our left wing party (Labour) - though it's finding purchase in the centre right too because the false narrative of fairness over efficiency is pervasive at the moment.

So in short, this isn't the UK government moaning, you have similar people moaning about similar issues in the US Congress (Bernie) - all of whom are either fifth columnist, communists or morons who don't understand how business functions. Especially a business like Amazon which is incredibly keen to funnel revenue back into the business as investment - which is why tax obligations are so small.

In the end the problem is Corporation Tax and other business taxes, they are moral taxes which serve little to no long term macro benefit, but end up creating an ideological distortion amongst both the legislative and electorate. In reality Amazon is paying billions of pounds of tax - via the salaries of its employees, rates levied on utilities and property etc. It is a nuanced tax piece because tax policy is needlessly byzantine.

Ohh where did this corporate stooge spring from?
 

naib

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Members of parliament are like congressmen, they don't get to propose much if any legislation - that is the proviso of government (though private members bills can and do make it onto statute books).

The vast majority of this aggitation comes from the hard left wing of our left wing party (Labour) - though it's finding purchase in the centre right too because the false narrative of fairness over efficiency is pervasive at the moment.

So in short, this isn't the UK government moaning, you have similar people moaning about similar issues in the US Congress (Bernie) - all of whom are either fifth columnist, communists or morons who don't understand how business functions. Especially a business like Amazon which is incredibly keen to funnel revenue back into the business as investment - which is why tax obligations are so small.

In the end the problem is Corporation Tax and other business taxes, they are moral taxes which serve little to no long term macro benefit, but end up creating an ideological distortion amongst both the legislative and electorate. In reality Amazon is paying billions of pounds of tax - via the salaries of its employees, rates levied on utilities and property etc. It is a nuanced tax piece because tax policy is needlessly byzantine.
yup, labour are going to have a heart attack when the 1st wave of corporation tax cuts come in next tax year :)

it has merits, Laffer curve backs this up. The higher the corporation tax, the higher the incentives for companies to either pay taxmen to hide their money or use other means (equally lower cash for re-investment). The lower the rate then the cost of these dodging schemes become more of a factor.
Each country and the way business is undertaken have their own optimum tax threshold & this is why the UK is planning on dropping its... increase more business to the uk and equally dissuade the avoidance tactics...

That aside... my view is these companies already spur business... employ people, employ secondary businesses from their adventures. They already have to pay a large NI contribution as well as certain legal pension commitments.
I am not saying a company should be 0 tax "because they indirectly", I am saying the amount they should pay shouldn't be as large as the left think it should be. They can do business because the UK is relatively secure, it is secure because of defense, diplomats etc... A company wants a safe place todo business and thus need to contribute to maintain such an environment
 

Old_Way

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Company's are just like people. They want to make money and keep as much of it as they can. People in the US would scream if the government took away the mortgage interest deduction for example. It's possible people would totally quit buying houses for a few years until the prices dropped to compensate for that deduction. That would destroy the economy. Be careful what you change when it comes to taxes, deductions and write-offs as they can have huge ripple effects.
 

BulletDust

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Ah, the fabled trickle down economy.

As real as unicorns.

Problem is, these corporations, and they're mostly US corperations, are simply allowed to grow far too large.

You trade in a country you pay tax 'in that country based around their laws'. As a middle/working class individual, I'm sick of being told I have to pay more tax when I earn nothing compared to these corporations and I do not either directly or indirectly rely on them for my employment.
 

Monkey God

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Ah, the fabled trickle down economy.

As real as unicorns.

Problem is, these corporations, and they're mostly US corperations, are simply allowed to grow far too large.

You trade in a country you pay tax 'in that country based around their laws'. As a middle/working class individual, I'm sick of being told I have to pay more tax when I earn nothing compared to these corporations and I do not either directly or indirectly rely on them for my employment.

I am trying to understand what it is you are bitching about besides corporations are evil, sitting in their corporate buildings, acting all "corporationay."
If companies follow the tax laws of the nations they operate in, and they dont pay "enough taxes" whatever that means, change the laws.
 

Jim Kim

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I am trying to understand what it is you are bitching about besides corporations are evil, sitting in their corporate buildings, acting all "corporationay."
If companies follow the tax laws of the nations they operate in, and they dont pay "enough taxes" whatever that means, change the laws.
+1 for using the little known word "corporationay.":D
 
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Didn't take long for someone to use 'trick down economy' as a counter as if it was espoused by economists on the right. It's called supply side vs demand side for a reason you nitwits.
 
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dvsman

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How many people (and smaller companies) does Amazon employ along its entire supply chain in the UK? How much in various taxes are they collectively paying? If Amazon up and moved to another nearby European country (along with all those related jobs), how would Parliament feel then?
 

PaulP

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To a corporation, taxes are just another cost of doing business. All costs drive up the price of the products and/or services sold. So taxing corporations is really just another sales tax and/or VAT paid by the consumer. But this one is stealthy since the government is not taking it directly.
 

dreadcthulhu

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Something to consider about this - corporations are taxed based the profit they make, not revenue or market share. Amazon throughout most of its history hasn't actually turned much of a net profit. In 2015 Amazon UK had a before tax profit of £48.5 million; in 2016 its profit fell in half, to £24.2 million. So the amount of tax being paid also falling in half shouldn't surprise anyone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/10/amazon-uk-logistics-division-halves-its-corporation-tax-as-sales-surge.html
 

TheHig

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Hide the profits. Pay less taxes. I'm pretty sure it works for the small businesses too. Get a good tax guy. :)
 

MV75

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As tax paying citizens, all you people that claim "Well damn! Why not just fine them like every other successful American company!" really need to understand, clear as crystal, that you're all making up the shortfall for large corporations using tax haven loopholes - While the top 1% of greed fueled corporations pay next to no tax, the governments of the world are trying to work out ways that the average tax paying citizen can make up the shortfall as it costs money to run a country.

Talk about shooting one's self in the damn foot, stop being so pathetically complaisent! If you believe laws need to be changed, start harassing the shit out of your local representative - Contrary to popular modern opinion backed up by the media empires of the world (Murdoch) spreading propaganda for the wealthy, you do have a voice, bloody use it!

As consumers, vote with your wallet and stop being so easily lead by consumerism and marketing. It's a little difficult for governments to invoke change when corporations grow far larger than the governments themselves and it's the corporate lobbyists pulling the strings as opposed to the governments themselves.

While it's the government that is actually complaining, not the citizen. So yea, use your wallet and buy as much shit as you can from this company if the government wants you to not use it.
 

BulletDust

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While it's the government that is actually complaining, not the citizen. So yea, use your wallet and buy as much shit as you can from this company if the government wants you to not use it.

I can assure you citizens are complaining of all the taxes they're forced to pay, I can assure you of that beyond all doubt. The government is informing it's citizens to vote with their wallets, and good on them. The issue is your American government allows these companies to grow so big, with such lobbying leverage, that they're dictating the terms of their paying tax to the governments of the world, while using tax haven loopholes. Let's use this little Facebook EULA that I had no option but to agree to today as an example - It's bullshit, it's trading under the banner of Irish tax havens that's fucking the global economy and there's little the governments of the world can do by themselves when these corporations are allowed to, quite simply, grow far too large:

XNAUv7oh.png


This example was a free advertising campaign FB offered, otherwise, with an EULA highlighting their tax avoidance like that, I would have told them to fuck right off.
 

HoffY

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As tax paying citizens,

Come on bro. As if the normies would bother to put the effort into learning politics! That takes time and genuine effort to even have a solid base understanding!! No time for that AND Fecesbook and Twatter!

the media empires of the world (Murdoch)

Damn, that prick is fsking up AUS as well. He's created many a Useful Idiot from AUS citizens as well. They are brain dead conformists over here! Political Correctness and Regressive shit taking over down under. :( Our main stream media is the same, if not worse, then the US ones. They are so politically, ideologically driven and swallowing the "the world is run on magic and rainbows" crap, its shocking .
 

BulletDust

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Damn, that prick is fsking up AUS as well. He's created many a Useful Idiot from AUS citizens as well. They are brain dead conformists over here! Political Correctness and Regressive shit taking over down under. :( Our main stream media is the same, if not worse, then the US ones. They are so politically, ideologically driven and swallowing the "the world is run on magic and rainbows" crap, its shocking

Mate, that prick's father as well as sir robert Menzies founded the Liberal National Party, the right wing fools running Australia and being lead by the nose by over 300 corporate lobbyists hell bent on paying no tax, making billions and making the working class cash cows make up for the shortfall while flogging them a new iPhone every twelve months.

The stupidly rich are winning because the working class can't read between the lines being fed to them by mainstream propaganda...I mean, media.
 
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MV75

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I can assure you citizens are complaining of all the taxes they're forced to pay, I can assure you of that beyond all doubt. The government is informing it's citizens to vote with their wallets, and good on them. The issue is your American government allows these companies to grow so big, with such lobbying leverage, that they're dictating the terms of their paying tax to the governments of the world, while using tax haven loopholes. Let's use this little Facebook EULA that I had no option but to agree to today as an example - It's bullshit, it's trading under the banner of Irish tax havens that's fucking the global economy and there's little the governments of the world can do by themselves when these corporations are allowed to, quite simply, grow far too large:

XNAUv7oh.png


This example was a free advertising campaign FB offered, otherwise, with an EULA highlighting their tax avoidance like that, I would have told them to fuck right off.

First of all, I'm aussie. Ok, I was keeping in context of the thread. The government was whinging that they were not getting enough and that the citizens should boycott the company. The government can fuck off and the citizens should do nothing but use that company. It's not hard to follow mate, the government wants the citizens to do the dirty for them so they don't have to commit political suicide by doing something themselves. They can shove that bastardry up their arses. Their little plans backfire and they want tax payers to be outraged, lol at that shit. I'd use amazon when it starts here just to annoy Gerry fuckhead Harvey.
 

BulletDust

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First of all, I'm aussie. Ok, I was keeping in context of the thread. The government was whinging that they were not getting enough and that the citizens should boycott the company. The government can fuck off and the citizens should do nothing but use that company. It's not hard to follow mate, the government wants the citizens to do the dirty for them so they don't have to commit political suicide by doing something themselves. They can shove that bastardry up their arses. Their little plans backfire and they want tax payers to be outraged, lol at that shit. I'd use amazon when it starts here just to annoy Gerry fuckhead Harvey.

Oh Gerry 'fuckhead' Harvey! Don't get me started - "Thanks Government, thanks $20,000 tax whatever for small business!" Every time I hear that shit advert I change the station on the radio, I could almost rip it from the dash and lob it out the window!

Get fucked you stupidly wealthy old bastard, lobbying the government to drop the tax free threshold on overseas purchases like you're hard done by. As a small business owner myself, why should it be up to me to dig the country out of debt with some change in tax claim threshold on purchaces under $20,000 when large corporations pay no bloody tax whatsoever.
 

rgMekanic

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First of all, I'm aussie. Ok, I was keeping in context of the thread. The government was whinging that they were not getting enough and that the citizens should boycott the company. The government can fuck off and the citizens should do nothing but use that company. It's not hard to follow mate, the government wants the citizens to do the dirty for them so they don't have to commit political suicide by doing something themselves. They can shove that bastardry up their arses. Their little plans backfire and they want tax payers to be outraged, lol at that shit. I'd use amazon when it starts here just to annoy Gerry fuckhead Harvey.

I fuckin love aussies.
 
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