Twitch is Watching You Even When You're Not on Twitch

DooKey

DooKey

[H]F Junkie
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Twitch has updated their Community Guidelines because of feedback from the community. These guidelines go into effect on February 19th and they have to deal with anti-harassment, hateful conduct, and sexual conduct. I believe all of us like a community that doesn't tolerate such conduct, but Twitch has decided to go one step further and they are going to take into account information from outside of the Twitch community when doling out discipline. I personally believe they are going too far, but that's just me. Check out the updated guidelines here. Thanks cageymaru.

Today’s update focuses on our anti-harassment and sexual content policies. Our goal is to increase clarity, strength, and consistency across our entire moderation framework, as well as the frequency and level of detail of our moderation communications.
 
Headline implies they are monitoring for all activity outside of the service, but I didn't see any wording in the linked pages to imply that. Am I missing something?
 
thenapalm said:
Headline implies they are monitoring for all activity outside of the service, but I didn't see any wording in the linked pages to imply that. Am I missing something?
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Talking about this paragraph here (probably):

policy said:
We prohibit using Twitch to facilitate hateful conduct or harassment, whether the targets are on or off Twitch. Individuals, communities or organizations that do so are not allowed to use our services. We may take action against users for hateful conduct or harassment that occurs off Twitch services that is directed at Twitch users.
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That said, I never liked Twitch so fuck 'em.
 
Gigus Fire said:
Just say no to these services which think they can monitor behavior outside of their service. Just because someone pays you doesn't mean they own your life.
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It also means that Twitch can choose not to pay you if you are a Nazi in real life but you Twitch about Kittens.

All business do this. People get fired or dropped if they get a complaint from something or someone outside of what they do.
 
Gasaraki_ said:
It also means that Twitch can choose not to pay you if you are a Nazi in real life but you Twitch about Kittens.

All business do this. People get fired or dropped if they get a complaint from something or someone outside of what they do.
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Yeah and that's wrong. Twitch isn't paying you to be a nazi, twitch is paying you for your content. I know you used nazi as it's a universal extreme point, but what if it's your political views? What if you're a recreational drug user and they disagree with that? What if you said you didn't like pets and the CEO is a pet lover, is it ok for them to drop you beacuse of that?
What if someone made faulty complaints because they didn't like you? Just based off of a complaint they'll just drop anyone?
It's a stupid slippery slope. Ohh, you're a republican? Yeah, we don't like those around here. Ohh you're black? We don't like those around here. Ohh you think XXX, well get off our platform (even though what you do has nothing to do with XXX).

Again, if they want to own your life for a few bucks, say no and use another service.
 
kinjo said:
Yeah that's way too far in my opinion. What someone does outside of twitch is their business.
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People are brand ambassadors, I think it's perfectly fine.


Want to stream yourself drawing puppy pics on twitch... great. But if you post nazi shit on facebook all day long, you are negatively impacting twitch and I fully feel they should have the right to terminate your account. If I posted that crap on my facebook, my company could, and would fire me as well.
 
I will keep saying this to the miraculously numerous people who aren't actually stupid but choose to be stupid online.

When you post something online, you are publishing it. Use your fucking heads because what you publish will come back to haunt you. Any dickhead that wants to hurt you can find ways to do so if you keep choosing to be stupid online. Twitch is certainly no exception, there isn't a single service that will tolerate their brand becoming associated with a whole host of behaviours. Especially the sort of sociopathic vitriol and totally irresponsible behaviour that fills social media.

Keep your clothes on, don't try to organise murders or genocides. Run what you're typing through your brain a few times before you post it. You're allowed to say whatever you want, anywhere you want, that's a right that has existed since the first words were spoken. You're not entitled to do anything, absolutely fucking nothing, in your life without consequences. Every single thing you do has consequences, from picking your nose to murdering a neighbour and stealing his liver. Plus, the shit your publish will hang around for years and years waiting to sting you.

At the very least make sure you make it as hard as possible for people to tie all of your various activities together. It's not too much to ask that people be smart about acting stupid online, is it?

And blur out any identifying marks (like your face) on your titty pics for cryin' out loud. Holy shit, this is not rocket surgery.
 
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They didn't even fairly adhere to their own rules before now. Increasing the amount of rules doesn't matter when they pick and choose who to use them on... and who not to punish when they got cash is rolling in.
 
thenapalm said:
Headline implies they are monitoring for all activity outside of the service, but I didn't see any wording in the linked pages to imply that. Am I missing something?
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They don't have to monitor, they're accounting for incidents that become well-known. For instance if a well-known streamer uses their fame to start stupid beef on Twitter then Twitch can kick them off the service.

Or I guess the more immediately relevant context would be if a streamer is associated with a bad offline incident, like at a party.
 
What is their definition of hate or harassment? Without firm guidelines, this just becomes a "We don't like you so bye bye" clause. This sounds a lot like the old "I can't define porn but I know it when I see it." legal standard.
 
This isn't much different from corporations that fire employees for questionable posts on social media. Twitch is a large employer that depends on public viewership to make money. If they *viewers* amass a boycott even for a short duration due to somebody sharing their point of view that goes against what is in their company outline, it could cost twitch money.

I know a girl that worked at planet fitness who was fired because she posted on her facebook that the management fucking sucked and they make minimum wage at all planet fitnesses. This happened like 6 years ago so I can only imagine how much worse it is now.

People used to go to the bar to bitch about work, and coworkers, now they just post it publicly on social media.
 
oldmanbal said:
This isn't much different from corporations that fire employees for questionable posts on social media. Twitch is a large employer that depends on public viewership to make money. If they *viewers* amass a boycott even for a short duration due to somebody sharing their point of view that goes against what is in their company outline, it could cost twitch money.

I know a girl that worked at planet fitness who was fired because she posted on her facebook that the management fucking sucked and they make minimum wage at all planet fitnesses. This happened like 6 years ago so I can only imagine how much worse it is now.

People used to go to the bar to bitch about work, and coworkers, now they just post it publicly on social media.
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This isn't bitching about twitch or their management. Talking bad about your bosses publicly isn't a good idea in general. This is about expressing opinions that they deem to be "hateful conduct" when hateful conduct is clearly left up to interpretation. They interpret, you get kicked off.
 
oldmanbal said:
This isn't much different from corporations that fire employees for questionable posts on social media. Twitch is a large employer that depends on public viewership to make money. If they *viewers* amass a boycott even for a short duration due to somebody sharing their point of view that goes against what is in their company outline, it could cost twitch money.

I know a girl that worked at planet fitness who was fired because she posted on her facebook that the management fucking sucked and they make minimum wage at all planet fitnesses. This happened like 6 years ago so I can only imagine how much worse it is now.

People used to go to the bar to bitch about work, and coworkers, now they just post it publicly on social media.
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Your PF example was someone was talking about their place of work and sharing wage details. That's different from whether she picks her boogers and eats them in her spare time.

Monopolies need to die, regardless of how they got that way.
 
Gigus Fire said:
Yeah and that's wrong. Twitch isn't paying you to be a nazi, twitch is paying you for your content. I know you used nazi as it's a universal extreme point, but what if it's your political views? What if you're a recreational drug user and they disagree with that? What if you said you didn't like pets and the CEO is a pet lover, is it ok for them to drop you beacuse of that?
What if someone made faulty complaints because they didn't like you? Just based off of a complaint they'll just drop anyone?
It's a stupid slippery slope. Ohh, you're a republican? Yeah, we don't like those around here. Ohh you're black? We don't like those around here. Ohh you think XXX, well get off our platform (even though what you do has nothing to do with XXX).

Again, if they want to own your life for a few bucks, say no and use another service.
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Basically, yes to (most) of the above. because Twitch is a private business, it doesn't need to worry about things like the First Amendment.

Civil rights violations? Maybe not so much. deciding what is a Civil Rights violation keeps a lot of lawyers employed now, but killing a Twitch feed because twitch doesn't like the Gayness or people of color, yeah, we all know that's not going to happen in this day and age.
 
motomonkey said:
Basically, yes to (most) of the above. because Twitch is a private business, it doesn't need to worry about things like the First Amendment.

Civil rights violations? Maybe not so much. deciding what is a Civil Rights violation keeps a lot of lawyers employed now, but killing a Twitch feed because twitch doesn't like the Gayness or people of color, yeah, we all know that's not going to happen in this day and age.
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It has nothing to do with laws, it just has to do with ethics and morals. Why bother supplying a company who pries into the personal lives of others and make arbitrary decisions on who can use their platform? It doesn't matter if they think they have the moral high ground or not.

Lets take an example. Some people have said that the American flag stands for Hate (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-dispute-over-trump/?utm_term=.b7ab7f2623b1).
Twitch makes a ruling that says anyone with an american flag in their stream is in violation of their code of conduct and will ban/remove them from their network.

Twitch has every right to do that, but people have every right to say "you know what, go f yourself twitch" and use competing services.

And yes, this is one of the extremes of the slippery slope that they've started to go down.
 
Gigus Fire said:
It has nothing to do with laws, it just has to do with ethics and morals. Why bother supplying a company who pries into the personal lives of others and make arbitrary decisions on who can use their platform? It doesn't matter if they think they have the moral high ground or not.

Lets take an example. Some people have said that the American flag stands for Hate (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-dispute-over-trump/?utm_term=.b7ab7f2623b1).
Twitch makes a ruling that says anyone with an american flag in their stream is in violation of their code of conduct and will ban/remove them from their network.

Twitch has every right to do that, but people have every right to say "you know what, go f yourself twitch" and use competing services.

And yes, this is one of the extremes of the slippery slope that they've started to go down.
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Ethics and Morals? who defines that?


I'd rather trust a company to look after it's own self interest, than try and pretend that it's all about ethics and morals. If you assume a company is after maximizing profit, you can usually predict what path decisions will take. (looking at you, Google, Do no Evil My Ass)

As soon as a person or company starts talking Ethics and Morals, I start getting Nervous. The company definition usually doesn't match mine.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I will keep saying this to the miraculously numerous people who aren't actually stupid but choose to be stupid online.

When you post something online, you are publishing it. Use your fucking heads because what you publish will come back to haunt you. Any dickhead that wants to hurt you can find ways to do so if you keep choosing to be stupid online. Twitch is certainly no exception, there isn't a single service that will tolerate their brand becoming associated with a whole host of behaviours. Especially the sort of sociopathic vitriol and totally irresponsible behaviour that fills social media.

Keep your clothes on, don't try to organise murders or genocides. Run what you're typing through your brain a few times before you post it. You're allowed to say whatever you want, anywhere you want, that's a right that has existed since the first words were spoken. You're not entitled to do anything, absolutely fucking nothing, in your life without consequences. Every single thing you do has consequences, from picking your nose to murdering a neighbour and stealing his liver. Plus, the shit your publish will hang around for years and years waiting to sting you.

At the very least make sure you make it as hard as possible for people to tie all of your various activities together. It's not too much to ask that people be smart about acting stupid online, is it?

And blur out any identifying marks (like your face) on your titty pics for cryin' out loud. Holy shit, this is not rocket surgery.
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What you don't realize is that the line of unexceptable behavior has not only been blurred beyond recognition, it has been shifted so far the only winning move is not to be active online at all.
 
It made me somewhat twitchy at first but in reality it's not an unfair proposition. Let's not forget that as an employee, contractor, whatever you want to call yourself, you're also free to judge the other side and ultimately choose not to work with them. It's as simple as that. Or maybe I am just being an idiot.
 
Meeho said:
What you don't realize is that the line of unexceptable behavior has not only been blurred beyond recognition, it has been shifted so far the only winning move is not to be active online at all.
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The line isn't blurry, people want it to be so they can be as repellent and degenerate as they want online, but it isn't complicated. If you wouldn't want your children, your friends, your employers, and your parents to hear it coming out of your face then don't publish it. If yelling it on a street corner is likely to get you knocked out, ZIP IT.

Consequences are universal, good or bad. Morality isn't mysterious, the thing that defines an individual's real morality is the courage to deal with the consequences of their values and actions. I have noticed that the internet tough guy is usually the one bawling the loudest when he is forced to deal with the consequences of his own actions.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The line isn't blurry, people want it to be so they can be as repellent and degenerate as they want online, but it isn't complicated. If you wouldn't want your children, your friends, your employers, and your parents to hear it coming out of your face then don't publish it. If yelling it on a street corner is likely to get you knocked out, ZIP IT.

Consequences are universal, good or bad. Morality isn't mysterious, the thing that defines an individual's real morality is the courage to deal with the consequences of their values and actions. I have noticed that the internet tough guy is usually the one bawling the loudest when he is forced to deal with the consequences of his own actions.
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I envy your ignorance on what has been happening on social media platforms lately.
 
So the solution here is for people to not act like assholes on the internet, which really shouldn't be as hard as it seems to be.
 
HockeyJon said:
So the solution here is for people to not act like assholes on the internet, which really shouldn't be as hard as it seems to be.
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Says the person who probably never grew up with xbox 1 and playing COD.

Basically it's impossible to believe people must behave on the internet where there's a level of anonymity.
 
Gigus Fire said:
Says the person who probably never grew up with xbox 1 and playing COD.

Basically it's impossible to believe people must behave on the internet where there's a level of anonymity.
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Is there something in my profile to indicate I'm like 80 years old? I grew up playing multiplayer games just like most people on this forum, and I still play multiplayer games on a regular basis. The constant truth is that you will encounter a bunch of neckbeard virgins who can't resist being a total dickhead just because they're behind a computer screen. I'm not saying it doesn't currently happen, I'm saying it shouldn't happen, and it's toxic for the online gaming community. It really shouldn't be particularly difficult to not be an asshole on the internet regardless of whether you're anonymous or not.
 
HockeyJon said:
Is there something in my profile to indicate I'm like 80 years old? I grew up playing multiplayer games just like most people on this forum, and I still play multiplayer games on a regular basis. The constant truth is that you will encounter a bunch of neckbeard virgins who can't resist being a total dickhead just because they're behind a computer screen. I'm not saying it doesn't currently happen, I'm saying it shouldn't happen, and it's toxic for the online gaming community. It really shouldn't be particularly difficult to not be an asshole on the internet regardless of whether you're anonymous or not.
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People are taught to behave in a socially acceptable manner because there are consequences if they fail to do so, they also tend to behave differently among groups of their peers than strangers.

Once the consequences disappear, and the pressure to conform is gone due to the anonymity of the internet where everyone is a stranger, then you get an enviroment where toxic behavior is acceptable to people with borderline social skills.

Look at MMO’s, in games where success is only possible at high levels by belonging to a group, you don’t see as much of this toxic behavior that dominates the FPS games. Behave like a dick, get kicked out of the group (Clan, Guild, etc.) and fail to succeed at the game.

It’s just human nature, you have a certain percentage of people that will always be good citizens regardless of the lack of consequences and a certain percentage that will behave like assholes, because they can get away with it.
 
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