Time for me to dump Mint, thinking about going back to Windows

[ManofGod]

Android IS intuitive. You might not like that answer, but as the number 1 or 2 in the cell phone world, used by hundreds of millions, daily, I disagree. If I want to change a setting, it's there. I don't need to open a config file to change it. Androids intuitiveness comes from, in my opinion, is it's one variation.

If I go into control panel and search for a setting in windows 7, it will show. If I do the same in windows 10, there it is. I truly think it's this easy because it has to be. The average computer user is an idiot. They don't know how to do anything on a PC without some SIMPLE steps to do it like click this button, select this useless troubleshooter, did it help?

Liking or disliking is not relevant and intuitive, it is not. Having to go online and search to discover how to do something in Android and iOS, repeatedly, means it is not intuitive.

 

[auntjemima]

Liking or disliking is not relevant and intuitive, it is not. Having to go online and search to discover how to do something in Android and iOS, repeatedly, means it is not intuitive.

But you don't have to. You go to settings and type something in. Unintuitive systems don't get widespread adoption to the extent Android has. You don't have to like it to think it. I don't like iOS, but I would never claim it isn't intuitive.

The minute a Linux fix tells you to open a terminal and type in a bunch of line garbage most users don't understand, that's unintuitive. It's getting better, but it definitely isn't there.

 

[ManofGod]

But you don't have to. You go to settings and type something in. Unintuitive systems don't get widespread adoption to the extent Android has. You don't have to like it to think it. I don't like iOS, but I would never claim it isn't intuitive.

The minute a Linux fix tells you to open a terminal and type in a bunch of line garbage most users don't understand, that's unintuitive. It's getting better, but it definitely isn't there.

Actually, wide spread adoption does not mean it is intuitive. As far as phone oses go, Windows 10 mobile was easily intuitive and we see what happened there.

 

[B00nie]

But you don't have to. You go to settings and type something in. Unintuitive systems don't get widespread adoption to the extent Android has. You don't have to like it to think it. I don't like iOS, but I would never claim it isn't intuitive.

The minute a Linux fix tells you to open a terminal and type in a bunch of line garbage most users don't understand, that's unintuitive. It's getting better, but it definitely isn't there.

A linux fix tells you to open the terminal and type commands (not garbage) because it's by far the easiest way to do something, instead of messing with GUI's. Linux control panel lets you search things just as Windows does. What sort of things have forced you to edit config files as a desktop user? Keep in mind that most things that require configs in linux are WAY above the top of an average windows users head, such as setting up network shares or a mediaserver.

 

[auntjemima]

A linux fix tells you to open the terminal and type commands (not garbage) because it's by far the easiest way to do something, instead of messing with GUI's. Linux control panel lets you search things just as Windows does. What sort of things have forced you to edit config files as a desktop user? Keep in mind that most things that require configs in linux are WAY above the top of an average windows users head, such as setting up network shares or a mediaserver.

Network sharing has been normal every day for me since windows 95. I know plenty of people that share external drives across their network, and quite frankly they are not very computer savvy. They right click a file and choose share.

I have many posts in the Linux forums regarding configuration file editing. You have answered some of them for me.

Typing a long command in the terminal is nowhere near as fast as clicking a few buttons. It just isn't. This is subjective, of course, but if I want to change a setting and it's in the GUI, it's fast, I just find a lot of Linux configuration settings are not in the settings applet.

 

[auntjemima]

Actually, wide spread adoption does not mean it is intuitive. As far as phone oses go, Windows 10 mobile was easily intuitive and we see what happened there.

I'll agree with you here. I only used a windows phone for a very short time and I liked it. I'm not sure what happened there, but Microsoft aren't unknown for just dropping things out of left field. Remember the Zune? Lol

 

[blackmomba]

Typing a long command in the terminal is nowhere near as fast as clicking a few buttons. It just isn't.

if you have to sit there and think of what the command might be, of course putzing around in a GUI is going to seem faster.

Oh it's here, no it isn't, maybe it's here, nope, here maybe, no... Oh here it is... An illusion of speed and progress

Even if you know where to go, as soon as it's 3-4-5 clicks deep, you're already beat by the guy with the terminal. But of course a prerequisite would be knowing the commands or knowing how to use --help switches to get you to the commands.

 

[B00nie]

Network sharing has been normal every day for me since windows 95. I know plenty of people that share external drives across their network, and quite frankly they are not very computer savvy. They right click a file and choose share.

I have many posts in the Linux forums regarding configuration file editing. You have answered some of them for me.

Typing a long command in the terminal is nowhere near as fast as clicking a few buttons. It just isn't. This is subjective, of course, but if I want to change a setting and it's in the GUI, it's fast, I just find a lot of Linux configuration settings are not in the settings applet.

Most of the time an advice given is not to type it, but to copypaste it. A GUI is always an inferior way of doing things. For example if a user can simply right click a file on Windows to share it, it means by default that the security settings are way open by default. Which is why Windows users have been succesfully attacked so easily all these years.

 

[FSCDiablo]

Eh, most options normal people are going to change in a desktop environment are in a gui in linux these days also. I think you're overstating how much linux users HAVE to go to the command line anymore. And then many times it's just dealing with interoperability with Windows or Windows programs.

You can grab any number of distros, slap it on a machine, and Ma and Pa Kettle can surf, email, message, run office apps without ever hitting the terminal. If there are updates they get a notification and click a button to update. This isn't 2001 anymore.

 

[B00nie]

Eh, most options normal people are going to change in a desktop environment are in a gui in linux these days also. I think you're overstating how much linux users HAVE to go to the command line anymore. And then many times it's just dealing with interoperability with Windows or Windows programs.

You can grab any number of distros, slap it on a machine, and Ma and Pa Kettle can surf, email, message, run office apps without ever hitting the terminal. If there are updates they get a notification and click a button to update. This isn't 2001 anymore.

My mother and both my in-laws have been using desktop linux very happily for many years. All that was needed was to move the internet bookmarks over and show where to open the office programs, print, scan etc. I do a maintenance visit once a year (now actually it's been 2 years already). I can assure that these 70+ year old people do not do terminal configurations lol.

 

[Deadjasper]

Biggest problem I have with Linux is lack of CURRENT information. It is so damned frustrating to get half way through a fix only to find out the instructions don't match the version you're using. And to add insult to injury, searching for version specific info is useless.

 

[B00nie]

Biggest problem I have with Linux is lack of CURRENT information. It is so damned frustrating to get half way through a fix only to find out the instructions don't match the version you're using. And to add insult to injury, searching for version specific info is useless.

I've run into that problem also but I've also learned to check the date of the article before even reading it. Current information is usually available in wiki, git or man pages. You just need the patience to read it and understand it instead of having a ready tutorial.

 

[cybereality]

All debian based distros will be lagging on versions. Ubuntu 21.04 offers Blender 2.83...

Not exactly. In the Ubuntu Software (on 20.04 LTS) I installed the Snap for Blender, it auto-updates, I have version 2.92 and I didn't have to do anything special or use the command line.

 

[ManofGod]

Not exactly. In the Ubuntu Software (on 20.04 LTS) I installed the Snap for Blender, it auto-updates, I have version 2.92 and I didn't have to do anything special or use the command line.

You know, if snaps were not so slow loading, I would probably have no issues with using them. However, at least when I first experienced them, they loaded quite slow so I decided to not bother, at least of the moment.

 

[cybereality]

I believe they fixed the issue with the loading. Seems pretty fast on my end. Opening Blender is almost instantaneous.

 

[B00nie]

Not exactly. In the Ubuntu Software (on 20.04 LTS) I installed the Snap for Blender, it auto-updates, I have version 2.92 and I didn't have to do anything special or use the command line.

Snap is snap. I'm talking about the repos.

 

[B00nie]

I believe they fixed the issue with the loading. Seems pretty fast on my end. Opening Blender is almost instantaneous.

Yes they made optimizations to that.

 

[cybereality]

Snap is snap. I'm talking about the repos.

Well Mint went out of their way to disable and block Snap, which was a deal breaker for me.

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/06/enable-snap-apps-linux-mint-20

Yeah, there are some ways around it, but I like Snap and want to support it. Mint can take a hike.

 

[B00nie]

I was never a Mint fan. Plain Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Mate has been my favorite.

 

[cybereality]

Okay. I'm not upset or anything. Mint can of course make their own choices, and I can make my choice not to use it.

 

[Deadjasper]

Different strokes for different folks, Mint works for me. It's not perfect but neither is any other distros. Just glad there are so many choices in the Linux world.

 

[Vermillion]

Different strokes for different folks, Mint works for me. It's not perfect but neither is any other distros. Just glad there are so many choices in the Linux world.

Pfft. Arch is perfect.

 

[Nobu]

Pfft. Arch is perfect.

View attachment 358608

Gentoo: ya' better watch yer back!

 

[B00nie]

Gentoo: ya' better watch yer back!

Gentoo: If you want a steak, grow your own cow.

 

[FSCDiablo]

Installed several distros to VMs to play around on various DEs. All are nice in their own way. Cinnamon is a lot like KDE in design, basically the old Win 7 layout, but in GTK vs QT and less deep dive into tweakability if you like that. Gnome is a good bit different these days compared to last time I used it years ago, more akin to a tablet OS which I get why they might go that route. KDE/Cinnamon/Gnome all clean install to similar enough memory footprints I don't care to call a winner there. RAM is cheap anyway.

Played a bit on Zorin 16 beta and being able to jump through their various desktops at the click of a button was pretty interesting. It's a few hundred MB heaver in RAM usage vs others, but not super noticeable. Zorin Lite is staying on the old D600 and works well on a 1GB RAM system. If they get their Zorin Grid up and running one of these days they may have a pretty compelling distro for schools and businesses.

Think I'll play with themes on KDE more too, maybe that's all I really need to scratch that itch.

 

[cybereality]

I really liked the wobbly windows on KDE but I found a Gnome tweak that adds wobbly windows to Ubuntu.

 

[B00nie]

I really liked the wobbly windows on KDE but I found a Gnome tweak that adds wobbly windows to Ubuntu.

I hate that window burn is not supported anymore though.

 

[Nobu]

I hate that window burn is not supported anymore though.

I hate that desktop snow isn't a thing anymore...

 

[B00nie]

I hate that desktop snow isn't a thing anymore...

I don't. I hate snow, we have too much of it every year

 

[Deadjasper]

Some freaking way I managed to enable auto login on install again (gotta learn not to get in a hurry). This time around I was able to find a solution to the problem here -

https://forum.level1techs.com/t/linux-mint-disable-automatic-login/129879

This actually worked so now I don't have to reinstall.

 

[FSCDiablo]

I posted that solution back on post #48. [facepalm] It's in a GUI even.

 

[Deadjasper]

I posted that solution back on post #48. [facepalm] It's in a GUI even.

No sir. Your solution did not work.

 

[FSCDiablo]

Really? Which part didn't work? Can't find the settings or the settings didn't work? If you can't find the screen the package is called "lightdm-settings", but was installed for me by default in Mint. I even added it to Debian Cinnamon as it wasn't installed by default. Works perfectly in both distros for me.

 

[Mazzspeed]

There's nothing non intuitive about my KDE desktop.

...At least there's only one settings panel and it doesn't keep asking me to switch to a Microsoft account every three days with no option to opt out, the only option is to delay the UI hogging requester another three days. At this point, Windows is becoming a bit of a joke.

Then there's iOS, with a different 'print' icon for many applications in differing locations.

 

[cybereality]

Yeah, I found KDE to make the most sense. All the settings are generally in the GUI.

 

[ManofGod]

There's nothing non intuitive about my KDE desktop.

...At least there's only one settings panel and it doesn't keep asking me to switch to a Microsoft account every three days with no option to opt out, the only option is to delay the UI hogging requester another three days. At this point, Windows is becoming a bit of a joke.

Then there's iOS, with a different 'print' icon for many applications in differing locations.

And yet, I still do not like KDE nowadays.

 

[Mazzspeed]

And yet, I still do not like KDE nowadays.

That's the beauty of Linux, if you don't like the UI, use something else. Personally, I love KDE and it works really well running X11 and fractional scaling on my Nvidia equipped workstation to my 27" 4k monitor.

I refuse to support the Gnome zealot developers that want to lock Linux down to the one, limiting, UI.

 

[Nobu]

Which reminds me, haven't looked at LXQt in a while. Looks like they're gearing up for the big 1.0. Not a fan of PCManFM, but I like the idea behind LXQt, anyway.

 

[cybereality]

I'm back on Windows now. Originally I switched to finish playing this game with bugs on Proton, but honestly Windows is not that bad.

What was bothering me on Ubuntu was that window dragging was choppy no mater what. I tried everything and it seemed like Linux devs just don't care about high refresh monitors.

Also nice to be able to use HDR again, plus MSI Afterburner and the overlay. I still like Linux, maybe I will use it on a second computer, it's just kind of annoying have little things broken (like window choppy dragging).

 

[ManofGod]

I'm back on Windows now. Originally I switched to finish playing this game with bugs on Proton, but honestly Windows is not that bad.

What was bothering me on Ubuntu was that window dragging was choppy no mater what. I tried everything and it seemed like Linux devs just don't care about high refresh monitors.

Also nice to be able to use HDR again, plus MSI Afterburner and the overlay. I still like Linux, maybe I will use it on a second computer, it's just kind of annoying have little things broken (like window choppy dragging).

Sounds like you had Nvidia issues then but, oh well. I have it on all 3 of my computers but, they are all AMD and all high refresh rate monitors and so far, so good.