The Privacy Phone.

twonunpackmule

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Good thing about articles like this is that it forces companies to acknowledge their flaws. I still think Apple is better.
 
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Deleted member 243478

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IPhones will only share data if you have allowed it in app permissions. On top of this just because it is sharing data, doesn’t mean its identifying, it could be anonymous.

If you are super paranoid then turn it off... hell iPhones don’t even let employers track staff without permission.
 

Uvaman2

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IPhones will only share data if you have allowed it in app permissions. On top of this just because it is sharing data, doesn’t mean its identifying, it could be anonymous.

If you are super paranoid then turn it off... hell iPhones don’t even let employers track staff without permission.
Question is, how much fuctionality do you lose removing permissions?
Android has permissions, but some app would just re-ask for permissions and simply not work.
 

Derangel

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Question is, how much fuctionality do you lose removing permissions?
Android has permissions, but some app would just re-ask for permissions and simply not work.

Depends on what apps you use and the features they require. Obviously things like GPS, weather auto location, Find my Iphone, etc aren't going to work if you disable location services. Convince is antithetical to privacy, the more privacy you demand the more convince you lose and vice versa.
 
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Deleted member 243478

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Question is, how much fuctionality do you lose removing permissions?
Android has permissions, but some app would just re-ask for permissions and simply not work.

The article is just BS, wow your phone used data which apparently automatically means its sharing your data?

You either allow an app to collect data or not. Its not Apples responsibility to be your nanny. Most companies like Google or FB revolve around data collection which is why the service is free.

You can choose to share no data but you will loose features or convenience as a result.
 

Uvaman2

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Depends on what apps you use and the features they require. Obviously things like GPS, weather auto location, Find my Iphone, etc aren't going to work if you disable location services. Convince is antithetical to privacy, the more privacy you demand the more convince you lose and vice versa.
I guess that's true. Google's does get slightly dumber when you delete all your history. Google just keeps too much, and so does all kinds of Apps obviously.
 

Uvaman2

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The article is just BS, wow your phone used data which apparently automatically means its sharing your data?

You either allow an app to collect data or not. Its not Apples responsibility to be your nanny. Most companies like Google or FB revolve around data collection which is why the service is free.

You can choose to share no data but you will loose features or convenience as a result.
My mistake I thought Apple did in fact extended their supposed privacy beliefs to control apps better. Doesn't seem like they do.
 

Uvaman2

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IPhones will only share data if you have allowed it in app permissions. On top of this just because it is sharing data, doesn’t mean its identifying, it could be anonymous.

If you are super paranoid then turn it off... hell iPhones don’t even let employers track staff without permission.
This one i don't get. This non sense about non-identifiable ... To me I guess is the bullshit companies feed us. I mean to me is like saying, yeah I am right next to your naked butt in the room, but I didn't look, I SWEAR!
 
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This one i don't get. This non sense about non-identifiable ... To me I guess is the bullshit companies feed us. I mean to me is like saying, yeah I am right next to your naked butt in the room, but I didn't look, I SWEAR!

Its non-identifying if the metric is viewed as a whole... eg how many times a link is clicked or page viewed etc.
 

Nolan7689

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Question is, how much fuctionality do you lose removing permissions?
Android has permissions, but some app would just re-ask for permissions and simply not work.
Well my anecdote is that on Android I could not use (not allowed to run) the Fitbit app without location data turned on. On iPhone I have never had Fitbit location data on and have never had an issue or even a prompt about it.

Make of that what you will, I’ve said it before and have been told I’m dumb and that Apple still totally collected that for Fitbit regardless of my settings, and I’m guessing it’ll happen again because that’s how people here are.
 

Jagger100

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IPhones will only share data if you have allowed it in app permissions. On top of this just because it is sharing data, doesn’t mean its identifying, it could be anonymous.

If you are super paranoid then turn it off... hell iPhones don’t even let employers track staff without permission.
The myth of Psuedonymization. You're not anonymous. You're uniquely tagged. Your tagged is attached to all their info on you they process its called psuedonymized. They separate your RL info from the tag in a particular service. But doesn't preclude anyone from buying your tag & info and connecting it to you with the info they have. Say they may give away your e-mail address with your tag. An online merchant may have your name an e-mail. Through your e-mail your Google/Apple info is connected to your RL identity.
 

lcpiper

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Depends on what apps you use and the features they require. Obviously things like GPS, weather auto location, Find my Iphone, etc aren't going to work if you disable location services. Convince is antithetical to privacy, the more privacy you demand the more convince you lose and vice versa.


Yup, it's the same old IT Security diadem, Security is a balancing act between functionality and risk. You could throw cost into the mix, but I see that as "how much are you willing to spend to get a little more of the former without more of the later.
 
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lcpiper

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Wait..... people actually thought apple DIDNT spy on them?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!

Except that isn't what the article said. The article was talking about 3rd party apps data mining, not the phone itself.

But Apple does indeed "spy". However most settings for this are hidden, it has been said many times Apple has the most data rich set of info out of anyone out there on it's users, and that includes Google....Which is a bit concerning. One thing they do better is how they sell targeted ads based on that data, nothing else, the data is there and exists however, just no direct access by 3rd party, however Android does it much the same way, the apps on Android however, not so much. Apple has however to their credit refused to unlock phones when asked, even by government. Say what you will about Apple, I honestly didn't expect them to do that when the first one hit the media, I thought they would give in right away.

Neither Apple nor Android are your friend however, and it's a good idea to always remember this.
 

opfreak

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The article is just BS, wow your phone used data which apparently automatically means its sharing your data?

You either allow an app to collect data or not. Its not Apples responsibility to be your nanny. Most companies like Google or FB revolve around data collection which is why the service is free.

You can choose to share no data but you will loose features or convenience as a result.

you didn't read the story did you.
 

SIS

Weaksauce
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Jun 13, 2014
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The obvious bottom line is that the only way a phone can be trustworthy is if everything in it is fully open source.*

Everything.

Zero undocumented features. Zero trade secrets. Zero insiders-only.

The same, of course, goes for PCs and any other piece of tech.

And, it must be designed with a minimalist programme. Absolutely nothing added beyond what is necessary and all extras are transparent and switchable (easy to comprehend and control).**

*The phone itself can be trustworthy but the networks also have to have the same full transparency.

**For example, turning on Developer mode in Firefox should not force-feed users "telemetry". Developer mode and "telemetry" should be separate, fully-transparent, fully-switchable.
 

pillagenburn

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Joined
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The obvious bottom line is that the only way a phone can be trustworthy is if everything in it is fully open source.*

Everything.

Zero undocumented features. Zero trade secrets. Zero insiders-only.

The same, of course, goes for PCs and any other piece of tech.

And, it must be designed with a minimalist programme. Absolutely nothing added beyond what is necessary and all extras are transparent and switchable (easy to comprehend and control).**

*The phone itself can be trustworthy but the networks also have to have the same full transparency.

**For example, turning on Developer mode in Firefox should not force-feed users "telemetry". Developer mode and "telemetry" should be separate, fully-transparent, fully-switchable.

But then these companies would be forced to come up with honest business models and God knows that's way too hard. In fact that would put most or all of them out of business.

Like I've said before, how many people would continue using their phones if a "THIS IS A TRACKING DEVICE FOR CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT" warning came up every time they turned their phones on?

Easy money gravy train all the way; who wants to work for what they earn anyway? Screw that.
 

SvenBent

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But then these companies would be forced to come up with honest business models and God knows that's way too hard. In fact that would put most or all of them out of business.

Like I've said before, how many people would continue using their phones if a "THIS IS A TRACKING DEVICE FOR CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT" warning came up every time they turned their phones on?

Easy money gravy train all the way; who wants to work for what they earn anyway? Screw that.


there is sadly tons of people "that have nothing to hide"
So far everyone of those people I've asked to give me access to their mail account and facebook, have yet to lie up to their statements though.
 
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SIS

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
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IPhones will only share data if you have allowed it in app permissions. On top of this just because it is sharing data, doesn’t mean its identifying, it could be anonymous.

If you are super paranoid then turn it off... hell iPhones don’t even let employers track staff without permission.
1) It is possible to put in switches that don't do what they're supposed to. This is, in fact, more common than most people recognize. It's also common to not put in switches for everything.

Apple products are also absolutely riddled with data theft and the trend is only increasing. For example, OS X has, for several iterations, kept a list of every file downloaded which is then uploaded to Apple and reportedly Microsoft also. OS X also has huge amounts of unnecessary metadata for files and no GUI controls for much of it. And, to top it off, it has lots of baked-in spy features for professional "forensics", like having log files that users delete go into unallocated space instead of actually being deleted. Apple makes user-hostile products just like Microsoft and Google. Computers aren't working for the user. They're working for the user's users.

Apple changed its log system to be more opaque than before and replaced its filesystem with one that's more opaque and, doubtless, much more spyware-inclusive. Once corporate AI becomes sophisticated enough they'll have us even more in the dark, under their leverage. Ordinary people will not be able to physically compete with corporate AI, left alone corporations themselves.

Macs also use Intel CPUs which have severe security problems. AMD has its PSP black box which China got it to strip out. The rest of us get some broken BIOS switches.

2) Even when Bluetooth is turned off on an iPhone it triggers the Bluetooth phone functionality in my VW Passat. Clearly, the phone is broadcasting despite the user setting.

3) Paranoia is not the point. Things like IP theft are rampant. When a person can't rely on their data being kept under their control they are ripe for being plundered. Then there is sensitive personal information, like banking and romantic communications.

Security is necessary. It's not paranoia to demand security. Most people lock their cars and homes for good reason.
 
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Jandor

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Everybody knows Apple is not great at security. They don't sell you data, spy little on you but there are plenty of holes in their systems. The rule that used to say OSX is secure because the chip (PowerPC) is proprietary and not common and because the OS is not Windows and used by too few people to be interesting to hack is just bullshit today. Apple is kind of more secure if you buy all the apps that are not supposed to track on you without your authorization, as Apple won't because they sell expensive products but this is all of it today. An Apple computer is 100% like a PC hardware now, the OS is well known and not any better than Linux except it's installed on more computers than any Linux distro (so it's a great target for hackers) and iPhones are so many sold and few kind of models that is the greatest mobile platform for the hackers. The bad with Google is that Google is spying on you and the phone manufacturer may also, and they will all give away your info for any money and to any government. That is the only difference between Android and Apple, but it's kind of a big difference. Now Microsoft is the worse of both worlds. It spies on you, gives away data on you AND makes you pay for everything.
 
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SIS

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spy little on you
No. OS X, at least, is full of spy tools and the arsenal is expanding. Windows 10 is merely more open about things because MS gets more scrutiny, less of a blithe assumption of good faith design. Everything is moving in this direction, even open source products like Firefox.

Many in the tech community like to naively look at AMD as being some kind of savior but corporations, by definition, are amoral. They exist to extract more of a person's life than the person is compensated for, most of that money going to the already rich. That's what "profit" is. Profit is a euphemism for exploitation, based ostensibly on the allegedly justifiable pecking order of intelligence. It's a Eugenics-type mindset, where stupid people exist to be sheep and one must fight tooth and nail for one's quality of life. But, in reality, Social Darwinism isn't what's happening because family ties (e.g. old money) and other things are highly influential. The notion that we have a much-accurate pecking order ("meritocracy") is shown to be false often, to say nothing of the morality debate about having systematized exploitation in the first place (which includes debates about how intelligence is defined in the first place). Back to AMD... consider that the PSP black box was something China got the company to remove for processors sold to it, presumably so it can substitute its own spyware piece. The rest of us get broken BIOS switches at best.

Computers don't have many direct users anymore. Computers use you at the behest of your "betters". AI is only going to exacerbate the problem exponentially.
 
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lostin3d

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Apple isn't doing any of that, turn off background app refresh like a normal human being and the problem is solved.

For a tech columnist, he is surprisingly moronic.

I use Android and Windows. I fully admit they're a security mess unless you take extreme measures to secure them and even then it's a balancing act for functionality and I've still got my doubts. I'm not against Apple so much as I simply do not have the time or money for another digital mouth.

My real question, regarding Apple, is whether or not anyone has truly tested, via third party security firms, as to what data is still being transmitted when their privacy settings are on and restricting app permissions? I'd really like to read articles on that to debunk and myths or misinformation. I'm not talking about the kind of testing where someone looks at their OS screen and checks metrics but actual transmission verification from outside equipment.
 

ZodaEX

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I use Android and Windows. I fully admit they're a security mess unless you take extreme measures to secure them and even then it's a balancing act for functionality and I've still got my doubts. I'm not against Apple so much as I simply do not have the time or money for another digital mouth.

My real question, regarding Apple, is whether or not anyone has truly tested, via third party security firms, as to what data is still being transmitted when their privacy settings are on and restricting app permissions? I'd really like to read articles on that to debunk and myths or misinformation. I'm not talking about the kind of testing where someone looks at their OS screen and checks metrics but actual transmission verification from outside equipment.

Why will you feed Microsoft's digital mouth, but not Apples?
 
D

Deleted member 243478

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1) It is possible to put in switches that don't do what they're supposed to. This is, in fact, more common than most people recognize. It's also common to not put in switches for everything.

Apple products are also absolutely riddled with data theft and the trend is only increasing. For example, OS X has, for several iterations, kept a list of every file downloaded which is then uploaded to Apple and reportedly Microsoft also. OS X also has huge amounts of unnecessary metadata for files and no GUI controls for much of it. And, to top it off, it has lots of baked-in spy features for professional "forensics", like having log files that users delete go into unallocated space instead of actually being deleted. Apple makes user-hostile products just like Microsoft and Google. Computers aren't working for the user. They're working for the user's users.

Apple changed its log system to be more opaque than before and replaced its filesystem with one that's more opaque and, doubtless, much more spyware-inclusive. Once corporate AI becomes sophisticated enough they'll have us even more in the dark, under their leverage. Ordinary people will not be able to physically compete with corporate AI, left alone corporations themselves.

Macs also use Intel CPUs which have severe security problems. AMD has its PSP black box which China got it to strip out. The rest of us get some broken BIOS switches.

2) Even when Bluetooth is turned off on an iPhone it triggers the Bluetooth phone functionality in my VW Passat. Clearly, the phone is broadcasting despite the user setting.

3) Paranoia is not the point. Things like IP theft are rampant. When a person can't rely on their data being kept under their control they are ripe for being plundered. Then there is sensitive personal information, like banking and romantic communications.

Security is necessary. It's not paranoia to demand security. Most people lock their cars and homes for good reason.

LOL... the diagnostic information you are referring to can be switched off easily by user prompt during the OS install process. The data is also anonymous.

Yes Apple use Intel chips... for now, this issue will be rectified in the next couple of years thank god. You seem to conveniently leave out that Apple run a custom SMBIOS which does not contain the same flaws as PCs, they also run a T2 chip which fixes many of the data attack vectors that a PC suffers from such as the storage interface through to constantly overlooked things like stupidly easy hardware access to the webcam and microphones.

Yes Intel has flaws, Apple are usually one of if not the first to patch them and they can’t do much more for a 3rd parties product. AMD is hardly a viable option in the portable space.

I loves how everyone singles out Apple every time when they are basically the only manufacturer actually trying new things at improving security. Everyone else keeps spinning out the same shit relying on Windows hello and other crap systems which gives users the impression of data security but do absolutely jack.

As for Bluetooth, yes that is a thing but if you bothered to look it up you would know it is related to iCloud and the capability of other devices to call your phone to activate hotspot etc remotely. Yes it can be disabled and yes it is secure within the iCloud ecosystem.
 

Jandor

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No. OS X, at least, is full of spy tools and the arsenal is expanding. Windows 10 is merely more open about things because MS gets more scrutiny, less of a blithe assumption of good faith design. Everything is moving in this direction, even open source products like Firefox.
What do you consider to be a spy tool ? If it's Apple spying on you for say, make some better software or see your use of the computer to promote some behaviors, yes that is spying but clearly not the same of getting all the info on you and giving it to global marketing companies associated with your name.
I disagree on Microsoft who clearly doesn't car and sells everything he can on the users. Just look into all the things you accept on every software that's installed with Windows. All your browsing in Windows is given out by M$. In fact M$ even thinks about giving Windows for free, having sufficient returns from the data they collect.
Firefox cas is simple. They found some odd story of homophobia on the guy who kept Firefox best web browser for protecting privacy, and they "sold" it so it has become garbage since then. Everything is fooling the users to think it's protecting people. I was even scared they would put it on top of Tor because, then they will have easily made through hidden code a way to picture all the Tor network.
There is no privacy protection in any browser today. Probably Safary is the best browser in that regard, if you are confident Apple would not look too close into your browsing and will keep it just for itself.
 

Jandor

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I am very careful with giving info about me on internet and I was quite anonymous at any web search mostly finding my address associated with my name and nothing else.
But I recently had some business with an administration and only that, and they clearly sold everything they had about me. Now I'm everywhere on Internet... and so pissed !
French administrations sell all the personal data they can get on you.
 
D

Deleted member 243478

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What do you consider to be a spy tool ? If it's Apple spying on you for say, make some better software or see your use of the computer to promote some behaviors, yes that is spying but clearly not the same of getting all the info on you and giving it to global marketing companies associated with your name.
I disagree on Microsoft who clearly doesn't car and sells everything he can on the users. Just look into all the things you accept on every software that's installed with Windows. All your browsing in Windows is given out by M$. In fact M$ even thinks about giving Windows for free, having sufficient returns from the data they collect.
Firefox cas is simple. They found some odd story of homophobia on the guy who kept Firefox best web browser for protecting privacy, and they "sold" it so it has become garbage since then. Everything is fooling the users to think it's protecting people. I was even scared they would put it on top of Tor because, then they will have easily made through hidden code a way to picture all the Tor network.
There is no privacy protection in any browser today. Probably Safary is the best browser in that regard, if you are confident Apple would not look too close into your browsing and will keep it just for itself.

Safari does seem pretty good for it aside from the browser history synchronising between all Apple devices but you should NEVER share the same Apple ID between devices of different family members. Biggest noob mistake I see constantly.
 

Ocellaris

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Turn off Background App refresh on any iPhone and don’t install a bunch of shit apps that claim to need your location or tie into Facebook and Google services. I never use my Google account so sign into anything except YouTube and Gmail.

Also all apps have options for using your location “Never” “While using the app” and “Always”. When stupid people click always, they get what they asked for.
 
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