The Crazy Training Schedule Of Pro Gamers

cvinh

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
2,003
Well, let's look at this stuff for a moment to kinda underscore the point I'm making:



So there are a total of 14 x 5 = 70 people competing and 5 of them get 1 million each of the total prizes. Great and whatever if you manage to be first in the lottery. Everyone else? What does the second place team get? Third? Your odds of being a winner are pretty low (better than a lottery, but not great) and as with most tournament-type events, the prize purse rapidly dwindles as you move down the stack to the first, second, third, and so forth of groups that lost. Even averaging the remaining 5 million out over 65 other people there's only like $77k per person to go around (unrealistically assuming everyone gets an equal portion of the remainder rather than many people going home with nothing at all for all their effort). That's a huge waste of time to spend 14 hours a day for years to get so little money and take the risks associated with gambling on you versus everyone else when it's a lot easier and more reliable to make more money for less effort and have leisure time plus a healthy amount of rest.

Yea just because you CAN be successful after your "pro" gaming career ends, doesn't mean you will be. I'd rather take the chance of getting an education instead of trying to go pro at a video game. Sure there are success stories but that won't happen to everyone who tries to do it for a living. Then all you're left with afterwards is a shitty resume and a lack of real world skills.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
Yea just because you CAN be successful after your "pro" gaming career ends, doesn't mean you will be. I'd rather take the chance of getting an education instead of trying to go pro at a video game. Sure there are success stories but that won't happen to everyone who tries to do it for a living. Then all you're left with afterwards is a shitty resume and a lack of real world skills.

I can attest to the value of having related job skills when applying to a corporate job. I'm currently at an electronics corporation with 20K+ employees and the directors here won't even breath on a resume if there's no relevant job skill. There's no "A for effort" for a well paying job. You either fit the bill or you don't and that's the harsh reality. I think you have to balance the trade offs. On the one hand, a pro gamer could make millions, but once his career is over, like sports players, he/she better be ready for humble pie cause your gaming career means nothing for most jobs. You'll probably start at the bottom with a $30K-$40K analyst position, if you're fortunate, or you better start networking before it's too late. Odds don't seem to favor pro gaming at all, especially in the States.

Then again, how many pro gamers really do "make it"? There are millions of gamers around the world and I know only a handful of teams that regularly appear or pop up in an article.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
All of the above. I usually don't respond to him for that reason. I did this once because it was tied into responding to others art the same time. That said I won't be making a habit of giving any credibility to his trolling by responding to him. He jumps in every gaming thread he can to show his contempt for gaming.

Yup, there's the typical guy presumption and polarity bubbling up to the surface. Let's all assume that because I think so-called pro gaming is silly that I have contempt for all of it. That's not at all true. I play stuff like the Sims pretty regularly (maybe an hour or two a week), have killed time waiting for a table at a restaurant or whatever with a game, and I've even put a few hours into bigger stuff like RPGs and MMOs. There's like 20+ hours of Skyrim on my Steam account. While I do think taking it to this level of tournament seriousness is a little bit over the top, that goes way off the track of the thread which is more about the number of life's hours people throw away in a chair with a mouse in their sweaty hand clicking the left button over and over again while hunched a couple of inches away from a screen on the off chance of winning a little money from a few corporate sponsors that need cheap publicity. Being realistic about employment and hiring practices, while it casts doing that in a negative light, is just observing the way the world actually works. If that flies in the face of the misconceptions you've built up about the world around you, you can either take it as a personal affront (which is weird since you've never done it as you've already stated previously) or you can use the different perspective as a starting point to expand your personal horizons or as a route to new ideas that you'd otherwise selectively avoid thinking about. It's really up to you how you wanna take it.

------------------------------

As for everyone else who's sharing their work and hiring thoughts, yup, I agree. People need relevant skills in order to be competitive in a workplace. That doesn't rule out having fun, but it certainly does cut out 14 hours of gaming and 4 hours of sleep per day as a fast track to a profession. What worries me about it the most is that when people are moving to other stages of their lives and are responsible for stuff like families, children, and whatnot, that they're going to be struggling with entry-level or low-wage work because they picked computer games over useful skills and experience.

Sure, to a younger person, $35k a year is good enough to pay for rent, a used car, and food, but if you're in the middle of your life and have to support other people or have higher expenses, those entry level jobs will keep you in a pretty poor set of living conditions when you already should be at mid-career and able to sustain a comfortable lifestyle for yourself and others. It's more about holding yourself accountable and responsible for your future than anything else and a I can't see the course these people pick as anything but hiding from it and shunning responsibility which ultimately turns playtime fun into low per-hour wage work that ends in a tournament gamble.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
I don't think pro gamer advocates realize just how tough the job market is right now, unless you're in a rare, specialized field. The attributes listed that pro gaming brings such as hard work, dedication, teamwork, leadership, etc. doesn't necessarily translate in an office environment. An applicant is also trying to separate himself from the rest of the pack where the qualities mentioned are assumed for every applicant to begin with. If I saw someone actually write on his resume, "I'm a hard worker, good leader, etc.", I'd think that he ran out of things to write so he needed fillers. You leave those attributes for your references to brag about from your past experiences. So what separates a pro gamer from a college grad with internship experience or previous job xp? In the eyes of a recruiter, plenty. If you have good connections though.... a resume can be a bit bare.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
You continue ignoring the fact that most pro gamers are actively in school getting their degrees. So this puts them in the job market with a degree and experience working in a competitive team environment. So in that respect they do have an advantage over the typical college grad who did nothing or flipped burgers in their off time.

You claim you have no contempt for gaming, try to justify your stance by claiming you play the Sims of all things. Then proceed to shit all over the idea of gaming and gamers in the rest of your post. You have zero credibility to make statements about what pro gaming is about when you barely even game.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
For that matter odds are the same in professional sports. 99% of the people that play them will never be good enough to make money. By your logic we should tell all of them to quit as will. It's just an unbelievably ignorant attitude a few of you have here and it has grown tiresome. Few of any pro gamers or wannabe pros go into it delusional enough to believe they can do it the rest of their lives. If someone is that dumb then just like the moron who put all their eggs in the play in the nfl basket ignoring education and never made it, deserves what they got. If you aren't interested in gaming at that level then don't watch it and stay out of the threads. I don't like professional sports, but you don't see me in those threads shitting it up with ignorant opinions based on stereotypes and personal bias.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
20,877
Pro esports..

LOL

I would call it pro when it is paying the bulls and more so than many people's career's do that they went to school for, paid boat loads in student loans and are now working some crappy 5 figure job...

And i would also call them pro because they are professionals at what they do..

How is it any different than any other job where one becomes a professional?
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
I don't like professional sports, but you don't see me in those threads shitting it up with ignorant opinions based on stereotypes and personal bias.

Just a thought, the name-calling, cussing, and aggression that you've exhibited pretty much is exactly what you're saying shouldn't belong in a thread.

People have different opinions (and those different ones are pretty well-informed, I think) so it might help to exercise a little self-control, remind yourself that you're on the Internet, or even log out and avoid a thread wherein those differing opinions will get you extremely upset.

On a side note, I do agree that professional sports are equally silly, but your dislike of them brings up a point that your personal bias, something you'd like not to see in this thread, has already been introduced. If you think professional sports are absurd, but at the same time agree that the basic framework is similar, then it's pretty clear that there's a healthy dose of bias in being the champion of one while frowning dubiously at the other. And while you're not doing it in a thread about sports (which is hard to do on a tech forum anyhow and further invalidates the point you're making) you are denouncing professional sports in a thread that has nothing to do with it, which is not only all those things you seem to dislike, but also off topic.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
Just a thought, the name-calling, cussing, and aggression that you've exhibited pretty much is exactly what you're saying shouldn't belong in a thread.

People have different opinions (and those different ones are pretty well-informed, I think) so it might help to exercise a little self-control, remind yourself that you're on the Internet, or even log out and avoid a thread wherein those differing opinions will get you extremely upset.

On a side note, I do agree that professional sports are equally silly, but your dislike of them brings up a point that your personal bias, something you'd like not to see in this thread, has already been introduced. If you think professional sports are absurd, but at the same time agree that the basic framework is similar, then it's pretty clear that there's a healthy dose of bias in being the champion of one while frowning dubiously at the other. And while you're not doing it in a thread about sports (which is hard to do on a tech forum anyhow and further invalidates the point you're making) you are denouncing professional sports in a thread that has nothing to do with it, which is not only all those things you seem to dislike, but also off topic.

I'm so glad you can see my emotional state through a few words..... my post is neither aggressive nor angry. It's called being matter of fact. Also I would appreciate it if you quit trying to put words in my mouth. First dating someone is being ignorant isn't name calling. I suggest you look up the definition of the word. If I had called you stupid, that would be name calling, however I did not. Furthermore I never called professions spots silly, I simple said I don't enjoy them. This meaning I don't enjoy watching them as they don't entertain me not because I think they are silly. So no it isn't a personal bias as much as you want to try and spin it. Simple fact of the matter is all your posts in every gaming thread can be boiled die to the following; *snerk* <insert random gamer stereotype insult>.
 

GaryS

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
94
I'm guessing nobody watched Deadliest Catch?

Sig Hansen of the Northwestern: "Robots are good. Robots don't think. Robots are used to repetition. Robots don't complain. Robots are little zombies."
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
I'm so glad you can see my emotional state through a few words..... my post is neither aggressive nor angry. It's called being matter of fact. Also I would appreciate it if you quit trying to put words in my mouth. First dating someone is being ignorant isn't name calling. I suggest you look up the definition of the word. If I had called you stupid, that would be name calling, however I did not. Furthermore I never called professions spots silly, I simple said I don't enjoy them. This meaning I don't enjoy watching them as they don't entertain me not because I think they are silly. So no it isn't a personal bias as much as you want to try and spin it. Simple fact of the matter is all your posts in every gaming thread can be boiled die to the following; *snerk* <insert random gamer stereotype insult>.

It certainly seems aggressive and angry from here. As for insults, I don't feel insulted, but I was referring to other posts in this thread which implied as such. I'll accept your adjustment of your position with your added explanation at face value.

I've already said, enjoy some computer games when and where the fit into my life (yay Sims 3 and now that I think about it, I've also been thinking about playing Final Fantasy 7). The only categorical sub-group of gaming that I really do think is frown-upon-worthy is the so-called pro gaming thing where people try to glorify it into something it most certainly isn't and will never become. If you go searching my posts, you'll find that *snerk* is only ever used in the appropriate eSports context where it belongs. We already covered that earlier though and I'm not sure why you're having trouble getting around that so I'll translate a shade of gray into more concrete, simpler, and absolute terms that might compute in your terminally binary guy-brain:

Dislike of eSports (*snerk*) != Dislike of all things related to video games
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
You continue ignoring the fact that most pro gamers are actively in school getting their degrees. So this puts them in the job market with a degree and experience working in a competitive team environment. So in that respect they do have an advantage over the typical college grad who did nothing or flipped burgers in their off time.

You claim you have no contempt for gaming, try to justify your stance by claiming you play the Sims of all things. Then proceed to shit all over the idea of gaming and gamers in the rest of your post. You have zero credibility to make statements about what pro gaming is about when you barely even game.

I think we just don't put as much weight on degrees as you. Degrees alone only get your resume glanced at by a serious recruiter. Without relevant experience at a higher age, your resume only looks worse compared to a fresh graduate. Why? Because a pro gamer spent 5 years doing something that he knew would have no bearing on the majority of jobs today versus a college grad who was studying that field and wants to jump in right away. The material is still fresh in his mind and he can apply it immediately. Playing 10 hours a day and keeping up with your studies on top of physical maintenance will take a toll on your body and mind. I'm not saying don't be a pro gamer, but the pros/cons should be weighed carefully.

*In regards to your last statement about zero cred... it's a tiresome fallacy. Would you refuse a doctor's treatment for cancer unless he himself had cancer? Just because someone doesn't game 10+ hours a day doesn't mean their observations are any less true. They are attempting to show the pros/cons of choosing pro gaming as a short term career.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
For that matter odds are the same in professional sports. 99% of the people that play them will never be good enough to make money. By your logic we should tell all of them to quit as will. It's just an unbelievably ignorant attitude a few of you have here and it has grown tiresome. Few of any pro gamers or wannabe pros go into it delusional enough to believe they can do it the rest of their lives. If someone is that dumb then just like the moron who put all their eggs in the play in the nfl basket ignoring education and never made it, deserves what they got. If you aren't interested in gaming at that level then don't watch it and stay out of the threads. I don't like professional sports, but you don't see me in those threads shitting it up with ignorant opinions based on stereotypes and personal bias.

I don't think I ever said "quit" but if your options are 'go pro' or 'go home'... how about a medium? You should watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on players going broke. It illustrates the same point I'm emphasizing, which is that you better have a good backup plan. A lot of it starts with getting job experience early outside the game. Every year you're a pro gamer is a year lost in relevant job xp that could have propelled you further in the long run. I'm not saying you must, but I think it's wiser and more beneficial in the long haul. If you want to be a pro gamer, by all means, knock yourself out. But people are giving insight on those who read these articles and think it's all fun and games without thinking of the long term repercussions it brings for someone's career path.
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,704
I think we just don't put as much weight on degrees as you. Degrees alone only get your resume glanced at by a serious recruiter. Without relevant experience at a higher age, your resume only looks worse compared to a fresh graduate. Why? Because a pro gamer spent 5 years doing something that he knew would have no bearing on the majority of jobs today versus a college grad who was studying that field and wants to jump in right away. The material is still fresh in his mind and he can apply it immediately. Playing 10 hours a day and keeping up with your studies on top of physical maintenance will take a toll on your body and mind. I'm not saying don't be a pro gamer, but the pros/cons should be weighed carefully.

*In regards to your last statement about zero cred... it's a tiresome fallacy. Would you refuse a doctor's treatment for cancer unless he himself had cancer? Just because someone doesn't game 10+ hours a day doesn't mean their observations are any less true. They are attempting to show the pros/cons of choosing pro gaming as a short term career.


Liberal arts...... Its the counter argument none of you can deal with. If having a degree that is relevant to a field is so important why do they even train liberal arts majors a major which has no relevance to anything? I am not saying that a pro gamer is going to walk into a microbiology job but saying they have no chance in life is just ignorance. There are plenty of things that can lead to great financial success with application, and there are many people out there looking for traits other than just what college you went to. And beyond that there are millions more jobs where no one whom applies is "qualified" therefore you can still get your foot in the door and get your experience.
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,704
I don't think I ever said "quit" but if your options are 'go pro' or 'go home'... how about a medium? You should watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on players going broke. It illustrates the same point I'm emphasizing, which is that you better have a good backup plan. A lot of it starts with getting job experience early outside the game. Every year you're a pro gamer is a year lost in relevant job xp that could have propelled you further in the long run. I'm not saying you must, but I think it's wiser and more beneficial in the long haul. If you want to be a pro gamer, by all means, knock yourself out. But people are giving insight on those who read these articles and think it's all fun and games without thinking of the long term repercussions it brings for someone's career path.

If you know much about real life you know that in most professions the only thing that matters is the last 2-4 years of your life. Most people simply wont give a shit if a guy spent 5 years as a pro gamer if that last 4 years were spent in college or in a job, whatever break in was needed to get in the industry. The ridiculous notion that there is some urgency to showing everyone you have X number of years of experience by the time you are Y years old is just a broken fallacy. Are some employers looking at that? Sure but many are not so those are the jobs you go for. Do 80% of all jobs you go for say, a qualified applicant must be under the age of 23?
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
Liberal arts...... Its the counter argument none of you can deal with. If having a degree that is relevant to a field is so important why do they even train liberal arts majors a major which has no relevance to anything? I am not saying that a pro gamer is going to walk into a microbiology job but saying they have no chance in life is just ignorance. There are plenty of things that can lead to great financial success with application, and there are many people out there looking for traits other than just what college you went to. And beyond that there are millions more jobs where no one whom applies is "qualified" therefore you can still get your foot in the door and get your experience.

You didn't read between the lines but attacked a strawman. When did I say that a degree is so important? If anything, I said the complete opposite and claimed that a degree alone is not enough. Job experience and connections/networking are much more important nowadays. I have many friends at my current company who studied psychology but now work in an electronics corporation. They only wish they didn't waste their time on a worthless degree since it didn't pay the bills. No one, or at least I didn't, said that pro gaming = no chance in life. Pro gaming, from my observation, lowers your chance at succeeding early and makes long term career paths harder to earn.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
If you know much about real life you know that in most professions the only thing that matters is the last 2-4 years of your life. Most people simply wont give a shit if a guy spent 5 years as a pro gamer if that last 4 years were spent in college or in a job, whatever break in was needed to get in the industry. The ridiculous notion that there is some urgency to showing everyone you have X number of years of experience by the time you are Y years old is just a broken fallacy. Are some employers looking at that? Sure but many are not so those are the jobs you go for. Do 80% of all jobs you go for say, a qualified applicant must be under the age of 23?

That's not true...at all. Any decent applicant puts only the relevant experience that pertains to the job you're applying for. I can't believe I have to spell this out but I will. You're not listing your life's story on your resume. You're listing relevant job experiences that will grab a recruiter's attention (like me) that will put you above the competing resumes. People change jobs to try different careers, of course, but you don't put every job you had on your resume either. What's a pro gamer going to put for his first job application outside of gaming? Worked at a fast food joint? And you missed the point again. The point isn't that pro gaming = 0% chance to obtain a job. It's that your odds are greatly diminished by competitors who want a job just like you for the same position. I think you missed the point of the college grad vs. pro gamer analogy with your last question so you can read my post again in context.
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,704
That's not true...at all. Any decent applicant puts only the relevant experience that pertains to the job you're applying for. I can't believe I have to spell this out but I will. You're not listing your life's story on your resume. You're listing relevant job experiences that will grab a recruiter's attention (like me) that will put you above the competing resumes. People change jobs to try different careers, of course, but you don't put every job you had on your resume either. What's a pro gamer going to put for his first job application outside of gaming? Worked at a fast food joint? And you missed the point again. The point isn't that pro gaming = 0% chance to obtain a job. It's that your odds are greatly diminished by competitors who want a job just like you for the same position. I think you missed the point of the college grad vs. pro gamer analogy with your last question so you can read my post again in context.

Your odds aren't greatly diminished they only delay your start a little. That's the point you are completely missing, you guys all think the pro gamer has to be compared 1:1 to someone exactly the same age. They don't. Start pro gaming at 16-17 , finish high school, delay college a couple years to pro game. Now goto college 2-4 years later than others. When you finish college apply for jobs. What jobs will you apply for and whom will you be competing against? You guys seem to think that they will be competing with people who have gone to job# 2 after college, IE you are making an unfair comparison. I am saying they are going to just compete directly with other recent college grads. Or they can also just attend college at the same time and finish early, then spend a year or 2 doing internships, or getting entry level jobs to gain that experience. They have plenty of options to work it out. Options that will be no different that the millions of applicants who cant decide what to do in life, or change careers after a couple years or any of the other likely majority of Americans who don't go strait through college perfectly and stick exactly to one career.

And if you read my earlier posts you will see that they can easily list many of the things they did as a pro gamer as relevant experiences if they simply carefully craft how they say it and you probably wont know any the better given 90% of all the resumes you receive will have the same spin put on equally distant experiences.

Nobody is born with 4 years of experience, get it? So everyone starts somewhere A pro gamer just makes that start a couple years after a strait high school to college person. After that you cant tell the difference. And while they go through their career they will likely out perform, catch up, and surpass their competitors who tried to do it all the strait and a safe way.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
Your odds aren't greatly diminished they only delay your start a little. That's the point you are completely missing, you guys all think the pro gamer has to be compared 1:1 to someone exactly the same age. They don't. Start pro gaming at 16-17 , finish high school, delay college a couple years to pro game. Now goto college 2-4 years later than others. When you finish college apply for jobs. What jobs will you apply for and whom will you be competing against? You guys seem to think that they will be competing with people who have gone to job# 2 after college, IE you are making an unfair comparison. I am saying they are going to just compete directly with other recent college grads. Or they can also just attend college at the same time and finish early, then spend a year or 2 doing internships, or getting entry level jobs to gain that experience. They have plenty of options to work it out. Options that will be no different that the millions of applicants who cant decide what to do in life, or change careers after a couple years or any of the other likely majority of Americans who don't go strait through college perfectly and stick exactly to one career.

And if you read my earlier posts you will see that they can easily list many of the things they did as a pro gamer as relevant experiences if they simply carefully craft how they say it and you probably wont know any the better given 90% of all the resumes you receive will have the same spin put on equally distant experiences.

Nobody is born with 4 years of experience, get it? So everyone starts somewhere A pro gamer just makes that start a couple years after a strait high school to college person. After that you cant tell the difference. And while they go through their career they will likely out perform, catch up, and surpass their competitors who tried to do it all the strait and a safe way.

That's quite a plan you got there and a lot of "ifs". Pro game at 16, take a couple years off, and then go to college? Aren't most Pro Gamers in their early 20s, at least from the articles I've read. That's not a couple years, that's a few years which can make a big difference. So what happens? Pro game till...22? College till 25, if you finish early? You're 3-4 years behind the typical graduate. You keep missing the point about a college grad vs. a gamer. I just said, again you missed it somehow, that a recruiter will go for a fresh college grad who dedicated his time to studying with the material fresh in his mind versus a gamer who is trying to multitask. Why? Because relative to each person's life, their actions show that one is more eager and dedicated to their respective field of study. Is pro gaming helpful at all on a resume? Hard to find a reason unless it's for game development or a gaming site. You're telling me that you're going to spin 'Pro Gaming' so that a recruiter will fawn for you? All resumes are the same? That's just naive and I fear for your resume. You're just going to take characteristics you named before which is assumed of every applicant to begin with. Just think it through because I've already answered these in my previous posts.

No one said you were born with 4 years of xp, strawman again. My point was that if you have relevant job xp, it trumps pro gaming in all respects and that fresh college grads have an advantage for the reasons stated before. I've already dealt with the career change before and those who start college late are a different context depending on their reasons (finances, disability, service, etc.). Those are legitimate reasons as opposed to choosing on your own volition, a gaming lifestyle.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
Ok after reading quite a bit more I now understand the mentality of the people here who are anti pro gamer. You are all young enough that you believe that your degree you are up to your eyeballs in debt for actually means something. Here is a news flash and this comes from someone who has spent years interviewing and hiring. It doesn't mean jack shit. The only person who give flying fuck about it is the hr person who posted the job, stuck the requirement on there per company policy and does the initial filtering. The person sitting across the desk talking to you couldn't care less if you have no degree or a PhD in dog walking. All they care about is what kind of relevant experience you have that makes you stand out from the 100 college grads on their desk. Why should I hire you? "Well I spent 4 years in a competitive teamwork environment and here are my references" sounds just as good as " Well I interned with this company". Both of which sound infinitely better than "well I spent100% of my time focusing on my studies". Because all that says it's you either partied your way through college or weren't motivated enough to do a damn thing. Either way you're going out the door because that degree you got taught you a whole lot of not a damn thing.

Frankly the lot of you are just miserable. At worst someone is only delaying their real career. They are young, they can still afford to chase their dreams a bit. Why hate on kids chasing their dreams? Hell I wish I had half the opportunities most of them do when I was that age. So I'll be damned if I'm going to be one of the ones telling them they can't dream.

In short, screw all you old men bitching about the kids on your lawn.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
Ok after reading quite a bit more I now understand the mentality of the people here who are anti pro gamer. You are all young enough that you believe that your degree you are up to your eyeballs in debt for actually means something.

So if this is what you know to be true, then how do all these younger people who are up to their eyeballs in debt also become...

...old men bitching about the kids on your lawn.

I'm surprised you even make sense to yourself at this point considering there's such a huge disconnect in logic there. Then again, this is coming from someone who feels it's perfectly reasonable to go into a rage-fit over an AOL app being loaded in their Verizon phone that justifies responding by physically destroying it as part of the flip out session so maturity and emotional stability don't seem like your thing. :D
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,704
That's quite a plan you got there and a lot of "ifs". Pro game at 16, take a couple years off, and then go to college? Aren't most Pro Gamers in their early 20s, at least from the articles I've read. That's not a couple years, that's a few years which can make a big difference. So what happens? Pro game till...22? College till 25, if you finish early? You're 3-4 years behind the typical graduate. You keep missing the point about a college grad vs. a gamer. I just said, again you missed it somehow, that a recruiter will go for a fresh college grad who dedicated his time to studying with the material fresh in his mind versus a gamer who is trying to multitask. Why? Because relative to each person's life, their actions show that one is more eager and dedicated to their respective field of study. Is pro gaming helpful at all on a resume? Hard to find a reason unless it's for game development or a gaming site. You're telling me that you're going to spin 'Pro Gaming' so that a recruiter will fawn for you? All resumes are the same? That's just naive and I fear for your resume. You're just going to take characteristics you named before which is assumed of every applicant to begin with. Just think it through because I've already answered these in my previous posts.

No one said you were born with 4 years of xp, strawman again. My point was that if you have relevant job xp, it trumps pro gaming in all respects and that fresh college grads have an advantage for the reasons stated before. I've already dealt with the career change before and those who start college late are a different context depending on their reasons (finances, disability, service, etc.). Those are legitimate reasons as opposed to choosing on your own volition, a gaming lifestyle.

Ok your point is you need relevant job experience so what? They will get some relevant job experience what's the problem? We all know that matters. The argument here is that somehow this is going to ruin their life or be a big mistake and they will be worse off, I would argue if this would have ruined their life they probably would have screwed it up regardless of being a pro gamer. Its like people who bitch about bankrupt football players, you realize those guys probably came from poor ass families with no financial sense or support right? Are you saying had they not been a pro athlete they would have suddenly had an epiphany and done everything right?.

Its not even remotely a far fetched its simply a realistic outlook on life and the competition. You keep talking like the competition out there is so amazing. lol like a guy who competed at the highest possible level of video game doesn't know what competition is.....Like he has no chance of translating those skills into the market place. Does every college grad walks out with 3+ relevant internships, good grief I have seen applications, a lot of people don't have anything other than teachers as references. And alot of job seekers wont see any better, or the ones that are better will simply turn them down. But just because you think this way lets take a look at some of the realities of the job market.

Less than 70% of HS students will even attend college
Less than 60% of those will goto something better than a community college
44% of college students won't even finish.
80% of college students will change majors.
And the vast majority will not finish in 4 years.

So all this pro gamer has to do, is do what he has already done, beat the odds, be better than the competition and I bet he will be A OK in life.

It also appears some people here are making way to big a deal out of this choice, no one said these guys need to pull 6 figure incomes and be CEOs, all they have to do is be able to look back on life and say being a pro gamer did not ruin me and relegate me to being a welfare recipient. If they are happy enough with 45K an very average wage in America then great.

Oh and what about these all important connections, pretty sure a guy with a story and possibly even a fan base is going to have very easy time breaking the ice and making connections compared to your next run the mill snooze fest candidate who says something like well I was in a frat. And all they have to do is get one of those connections to pan out and they will get their first work experience foot in the door. Once in if they apply themselves they will probably out perform and things will fall into place. I would even say they have a good chance of hearing about the mistakes their non pro gaming friends made and be able to correct for that since they are coming from a little behind.

There are a thousands ways an already high performance individual can make a come back in life, catch up to and surpass their peers that started before them. Wont even be remotely as hard as you guys make it out to be, if it is that hard it will almost certainly be because they were never going to do better anyway.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
So if this is what you know to be true, then how do all these younger people who are up to their eyeballs in debt also become...



I'm surprised you even make sense to yourself at this point considering there's such a huge disconnect in logic there. Then again, this is coming from someone who feels it's perfectly reasonable to go into a rage-fit over an AOL app being loaded in their Verizon phone that justifies responding by physically destroying it as part of the flip out session so maturity and emotional stability don't seem like your thing. :D

You are a piece of work with your assumptions. You don't have to be old too be acting like it. If the shoe fits.

And rage fit? Someone who is an admitted troll on this board needs to brush up on their snark. That was pretty obviously a spin on the old burn it with fire thing. You seem to have a fascination with assigning emotion to people's posts.
 

cvinh

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
2,003
So if this is what you know to be true, then how do all these younger people who are up to their eyeballs in debt also become...



I'm surprised you even make sense to yourself at this point considering there's such a huge disconnect in logic there. Then again, this is coming from someone who feels it's perfectly reasonable to go into a rage-fit over an AOL app being loaded in their Verizon phone that justifies responding by physically destroying it as part of the flip out session so maturity and emotional stability don't seem like your thing. :D

I wouldn't bother with him anymore. Just cause someone has a different opinion means they're wrong and "miserable old men".
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
I wouldn't bother with him anymore. Just cause someone has a different opinion means they're wrong and "miserable old men".

Having a differing opinion is one thing, being dead wrong and proven so by multiple people and defiantly remaining wrong is entirely different. You got called miserable old men because your opinions are flat out based in ignorance and stereotypes. You want to have a rational debate on the pros and cons of pro gaming that's fine, but continuing to spout of flagrantly false information isn't debating.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
I wouldn't bother with him anymore. Just cause someone has a different opinion means they're wrong and "miserable old men".

I probably shouldn't, but it's kinda fun.

You are a piece of work with your assumptions. You don't have to be old too be acting like it. If the shoe fits.

And rage fit? Someone who is an admitted troll on this board needs to brush up on their snark. That was pretty obviously a spin on the old burn it with fire thing. You seem to have a fascination with assigning emotion to people's posts.

The only reason why you're bothering to retaliate is because these assumptions are fairly accurate and to maintain credibility for arguments previously presented, you're compelled to elaborate. If not, you and I both realize that what you're saying will fall apart because you're under the impression that forum members intake information and accept facts based on the reputation of the person presenting them rather than as standalone information that's independently assessed based on its own merits. It's something you're attempting to do by accusing me of being a forum troll because the social elements of human interaction strike you as important and therefore, you've assigned them an equal level of importance for me and make an assumption (gee, where have we heard that before hmm? :D) that I care.

Having a differing opinion is one thing, being dead wrong and proven so by multiple people and defiantly remaining wrong is entirely different. You got called miserable old men because your opinions are flat out based in ignorance and stereotypes. You want to have a rational debate on the pros and cons of pro gaming that's fine, but continuing to spout of flagrantly false information isn't debating.

The funny thing that you're unable to get is that for as many people who are hiring employees there are just as many varied opinions about the validity of any given thing on a resume or the importance (or lack thereof) of relevant experience. Because of that, no one broad brush stroke can be applied to the idea of how a "pro gamer" *snerk* will do when seeking a job after they've spent any number of years playing video games instead of working. There are trends, I think, which might be analyzed and studied to determine whether or not "played a lot of video games professionally" will hold more or less water than "has degree x and has y years of relevant experience," but I believe the reason why no one's spent the effort to study that sort of thing is because the outcome of the study is fairly obvious and impacts a very small segment of the world's population so it isn't overly relevant.

As well, for as many posts as you claim support your thoughts (excluding your own as they're a single person's opinion) there are multiple people refuting your thoughts and asserting that they're invalid. It means that the idea of being "dead wrong...yadda, yadda, pro gamer, etc" can easily be turned about and applied in the opposite direction. If you go by the number of people expressing a discernable opinion either way and count them (despite having too small of a sample size to get any reasonable confidence interval) you might find yourself among the minority having your particular opinion. :)
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
I'm bothering to retaliate because I'm bored due to my net being out and being stuck on my phone. Not I give even a shed of validity to what you are saying.

That said this is a pointless circle jerk. Just off the top of my head though, the following points on pro gaming you've been wrong about for months and never bothered doing research on.

1) More than 1 person/team wins money as major tournaments. There are also a more tournaments going on than any one person could hope to compete at. Some are only the top 3, some include the top 16.

2) Smallest individual amount I've seen at any decent event is $3k for what amounts to a few hours actual play. Top prizes have been in the millions with most hovering around 100k. These aren't paltry sums of money by any stretch and saying they are is gross exaggeration. Even moderately successful players can manage 30k+ in winnings a year, excluding sponsorships and steaming. That is the part to see just flat unfamiliar with and why you don't get it. Many on teams pull a salary in addition to their winnings and most steam as ad revenue, subscriptions and donations make up a huge part. It isn't difficult for mid tier players to clear 70k a year without placing higher than top 16 in any major tournament. So to argue they see doing nothing but wasting their time is so laughably absurd it would be funny if it weren't so pathetically wrong.

3) Saying they are losing out to other college grads is likewise stupid. Many if not most remain in school pursuing their degree. They all know there is a time limit on their career. They are only delaying their career start by a few years and that isn't a problem. The difference is they are generally making Significantly more money than most college kids and frankly even delayed probably still better off financially than the average grad. Obviously not all but there is always risk for higher rewards.

So the reality is you can hate on esports all you want, but it is growing rapidly. It isn't slowing down, it is here to stay and I for one am glad the geeks now have their own equivalent to football and baseball to pursue. Colleges are picking it up as a program left and right, even high schools are starting to. The reality is major organizations are recognizing it and it is only a matter of time before employers as a whole do so as well. So go on spouting off ignorant opinions about it on how they are all stupid and will have no job prospects. The educational institutions beg to differ.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
40
Ok your point is you need relevant job experience so what? They will get some relevant job experience what's the problem? We all know that matters. The argument here is that somehow this is going to ruin their life or be a big mistake and they will be worse off, I would argue if this would have ruined their life they probably would have screwed it up regardless of being a pro gamer. Its like people who bitch about bankrupt football players, you realize those guys probably came from poor ass families with no financial sense or support right? Are you saying had they not been a pro athlete they would have suddenly had an epiphany and done everything right?.

Its not even remotely a far fetched its simply a realistic outlook on life and the competition. You keep talking like the competition out there is so amazing. lol like a guy who competed at the highest possible level of video game doesn't know what competition is.....Like he has no chance of translating those skills into the market place. Does every college grad walks out with 3+ relevant internships, good grief I have seen applications, a lot of people don't have anything other than teachers as references. And alot of job seekers wont see any better, or the ones that are better will simply turn them down. But just because you think this way lets take a look at some of the realities of the job market.

Less than 70% of HS students will even attend college
Less than 60% of those will goto something better than a community college
44% of college students won't even finish.
80% of college students will change majors.
And the vast majority will not finish in 4 years.

So all this pro gamer has to do, is do what he has already done, beat the odds, be better than the competition and I bet he will be A OK in life.

It also appears some people here are making way to big a deal out of this choice, no one said these guys need to pull 6 figure incomes and be CEOs, all they have to do is be able to look back on life and say being a pro gamer did not ruin me and relegate me to being a welfare recipient. If they are happy enough with 45K an very average wage in America then great.

Oh and what about these all important connections, pretty sure a guy with a story and possibly even a fan base is going to have very easy time breaking the ice and making connections compared to your next run the mill snooze fest candidate who says something like well I was in a frat. And all they have to do is get one of those connections to pan out and they will get their first work experience foot in the door. Once in if they apply themselves they will probably out perform and things will fall into place. I would even say they have a good chance of hearing about the mistakes their non pro gaming friends made and be able to correct for that since they are coming from a little behind.

There are a thousands ways an already high performance individual can make a come back in life, catch up to and surpass their peers that started before them. Wont even be remotely as hard as you guys make it out to be, if it is that hard it will almost certainly be because they were never going to do better anyway.

*Sigh*... it's as if you purposely cherry pick a phrase and then run with it. This will be my last post simply because you cannot grasp the point of this dialogue. The relevant job xp merely demonstrated the trade off versus living as a pro gamer. This whole dialogue has been about trade offs, pros/cons. My argument has been that pro gaming does not benefit you as much as you think for the various reasons listed. You then take the other extreme of a party animal or frat boy and pin it against your extreme of a pro gamer as if it gives your point credibility. It only hinders it due to the fact that I mentioned earlier, context of fresh college grad versus pro gamer. The point wasn't what the fresh college grad brings on his resume, it was the intent behind his actions that reflects in the resume. And you really need to stop bringing up pro gaming characteristics as a plus. Everyone puts competitive, hard work, etc. as an attribute and you're naive again if gaming separates you from other forms of team competition.

No one said you needed to become a CEO or director level after gaming but the point illustrates that you'll start at the bottom...again.... if you didn't even win tournaments or get sponsored MUCH as a pro gamer, that really sets you back financially and your potential experience that could have been gained during that time. All your 'if' statements of the potential a pro gamer could bring are irrelevant. I could just as easily say, what if a pro gamer is much worse than their counterparts and requires extra help because their competitive drive and hard work isn't enough? You can't just assert a scenario as if that leads you credence. All in all, it's about trade offs which you keep missing and then focus on one or two options I provided without using the context around those options. I simply think that it's not worth it but as I've said before, to each their own.
 
Top