Texas Rangers Serve Warrant to Apple to Gain Access to iPhone Owned by Sutherland Springs Killer

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DooKey

DooKey

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The San Antonio Express News researched court papers and discovered that the Texas Rangers had served a warrant to Apple to gain access to the iPhone used by the Sutherland Springs killer. At this point in time Apple has no comment because they won't comment on law enforcement matters. I can understand that stance, but I believe this is one of those times where they need to help get information out of this phone. There's no doubt who did it and there is a legitimate warrant. It's time to play nice, Apple.

Christopher Combs, the FBI special agent in charge in San Antonio whose office is helping Texas Rangers, complained last week that the FBI was unable to access the files on Kelley’s phone. Combs declined to say at the time what kind of mobile phone Kelley was carrying.
 
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Why do they need access to the phone?

There's no doubt who did it, there's no trial to be had, there's a pretty clear picture of who, what, why, and when. So why is there any need to see what's on the phone? What bit of good would it do for anyone?
 
raz-0 said:
Why do they need access to the phone?

There's no doubt who did it, there's no trial to be had, there's a pretty clear picture of who, what, why, and when. So why is there any need to see what's on the phone? What bit of good would it do for anyone?
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Glad you don't run the law enforcement here in Texas or for Feds.
 
raz-0 said:
Why do they need access to the phone?

There's no doubt who did it, there's no trial to be had, there's a pretty clear picture of who, what, why, and when. So why is there any need to see what's on the phone? What bit of good would it do for anyone?
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Accomplices? Suppliers? Who knows what's on that phone.

That being said, I don't think the onus is on Apple to unlock it. That just proves that their security isn't secure.
 
I'm curious why we never hear about this from the Google/Android side.
 
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"In the Eyes of a Ranger, the unsuspecting stranger
Had better know the truth of wrong from right.
'Cause the rule of law and order starts at the Texas border,
With the Lone Star of the Ranger shining bright.

(Chorus) For the Eyes of a Ranger are upon you;
Any wrong you do, he's gonna see.
When you're in Texas, look behind you,
For that's where the Ranger's gonna be.

Apple best not mess with the Rangers.
 
I'd have cut the bastard's finger off, packed it with the phone, and sent it off to forensics.

Who's going to complain?
 
DrBorg said:
I'd have cut the bastard's finger off, packed it with the phone, and sent it off to forensics.

Who's going to complain?
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You need to enter the passcode again if the phone goes more than 24 hours without being unlocked. Also Apple can’t get the information off the phone anyway (if it’s the latest OS). The phone data is encrypted and there isn’t a black door, the phone is just a bunch of jumbled bits until it’s unlocked. Apple can get some info from iCloud, that’s about it.

The warrant is nothing but a PR stunt.
 
raz-0 said:
Why do they need access to the phone?

There's no doubt who did it, there's no trial to be had, there's a pretty clear picture of who, what, why, and when. So why is there any need to see what's on the phone? What bit of good would it do for anyone?
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They want to set a precedent and need a tragedy that caused a lot of public outcry... a "Think of the Children Event".
 
Tak Ne said:
They want to set a precedent and need a tragedy that caused a lot of public outcry... a "Think of the Children Event".
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But they HAVE to do something or the Terrorists will win... lol... It's funny until your realize how serious and it all is.

Apple has absolutely no reason to be forced to help these buffoons further their agenda. Even if Apple decides to help voluntarily, that would be used against them in the future in order to force them to comply. The Government and especially the police are not your friends, don't ever give them an inch, you'll just end up losing your rights.
 
My understanding is that this shooting most likely escalated from a family dispute. Family disputes often involve more than just one or two members of a family. There is a chance that another family member was pushing the killer's buttons and maybe even told him to go and do something. We also like to think we know everything there is about an investigation like this but it's also possible that the Texas Rangers have testimony that suggests pertinent information might be found on the phone.


It's still my opinion that the idea that if Apple can access the data then it's unsecure. I have access to Classified Government information that is protected and secured. But we can access it. The users that are the data owners and the admins who manage it can all access the data, and it's secure. There is just a difference between some people's idea of perfectly inviolate security and reasonable security.
 
Tak Ne said:
They want to set a precedent and need a tragedy that caused a lot of public outcry... a "Think of the Children Event".
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For years Apple and Verizon and others gave up the info, unlocked the phones, that precedent people keep crying about was set decades ago. This is a completely false idea, it's an argument that has no substance in actual court but draws attention from the press from the ignorant. Legal Precedent is not at issue.
 
Verge said:
Suppliers of what? They know where he bought his weapon and ammo, he posted it on facebook. What exactly are they looking for?
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How about "Hey Billy Bob, you're next!". They might not even know exactly what theyre looking for until they see it, such as plans for the next massacre, other redneck cells, etc. This is domestic terrorism and terrorists often have a variety of plans.
 
Mike89 said:
If this had to do with copyright infringement, we wouldn't be having this discussion because Apple would have given it up in a heartbeat.



Dude you are straight up idiot.
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Depends on where you live. I have had both good and horrible experiences with law enforcement.

When my car was stolen in Tucson, AZ, I called the Sherriff's department whose office was a 3-5 minute WALK from where I lived. They said they would send somebody over. Waited and waited. Ended up calling them back. They said they decided to not send anybody over and just wanted to take a statement over the phone.

Then, a few days later they actually found my car, wouldn't let me come get it where they found it, and I had to pay the towing fee where they ended up having it towed to.

And to top it off, they didn't do any type of investigation whatsoever. When I went to get my car, there was a bunch of stuff in the car that wasn't mine including a slim-jim. I called them and actually took the car over there and they told me they were just going to throw everything away.

I was out a few days of work, ended up spending a few hundred to fix the stuff that was broken so I could actually drive it again as well as was out my new stereo and speakers.

Yeah, I can really trust the "law enforcement" in Tucson, AZ.
 
cyclone3d said:
And sets a very bad precedent for those who don't want big-brother spying on us just because they can.

You give the government an inch and they take a mile.

The government has turned into a huge massive swamp of corruption and IS most definitely NOT your friend. They will take as much as they can for as long as they can.
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I guess you missed the part where the guy is dead and committed mass murder. I think he lost that right, IMO.
 
Smoeki said:
especially the police are not your friends, don't ever give them an inch, you'll just end up losing your rights.
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Alright buddy, the next time you need a police officer, call the dog catcher instead.


I don't get what the big deal is, I read an article the other day that said "It used to be that a mans house was his castle, now its his cell phone". Apple should gladly give up the access to the phone so that they can further the investigation, wouldn't you want that if your family was involved? Wouldn't you like to have no stone unturned or have that kind of closure?
 
raz-0 said:
Unless you think a history of domestic unrest, years of his family he had issues with and killed attended the church as a ruse, being court martialed by the US air force and subsequently mis-filed, and academy sprorts selling him guns and ammo was some sort of vast chain of conspiracy, just what exactly is being investigated?

The guy drove away in his car, there was no wheel man, there's no conspiracy to uncover. There's no trial to be had, and even if there were, there's more than enough there to convict, so what's the point other than to try and make Apple roll over in the face of the fact you can indeed engineer something non reversible that you can't undo.
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You don't think there is any chance at all that another family member could be complicit in this event that involved several family members?

Nobody else could have known he was going to do something crazy and didn't do something, or worse, pushed him to do something?
 
The reports said that the shooter called his dad to say he was not going to make it home.
Did his dad know he was going to do it, without telling anyone?
Did any of his messages to anyone tell of his plans to do the evil thing he did?
If he had an accomplice, they need to face charges, period.

Apple should, if they can, gain access to it.
 
raz-0 said:
The guy drove away in his car, there was no wheel man, there's no conspiracy to uncover. There's no trial to be had, and even if there were, there's more than enough there to convict, so what's the point other than to try and make Apple roll over in the face of the fact you can indeed engineer something non reversible that you can't undo.
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Let me see if I can spell it out clearer. Just because you "KNOW" all these things to be fact, does not make those fact. Going on huge assumptions is not how you properly conduct a criminal investigation. I am not argueing, I am stating a FACT. You do not have to accept reality, that is fine, but your aversion to reality does not change it.
 
Krenum said:
Alright buddy, the next time you need a police officer, call the dog catcher instead.
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Considering that I would get undoubtedly get a better service from a dog catcher and not have to worry about them lying to me and/or violating someones rights with immunity, I would love to have that option. Plus the dog catcher probably wouldn't shoot my dog.

Also you have a major flaw in your response.

There is no reason I would ever want to call the police. If I actually need to call them it's because I'm forced to by law. Once again Government is not your friend, any lawyer worth a damn will tell you that.
 
In the words of N.W.A. : FUCK THE POLICE !

Those who want a police state (as if it isn't almost there already) go ahead and cheer this. I will be cheering for Apple, which makes me feel dirty and depressed.
 
Krenum said:
Exactly, even if he was alive, once you commit a Felony, you lose all of your rights.
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This has nothing to do with his rights. This has to do with Apples rights and ultimately ours. This is another obvious play to see if the government can get away with forcing companies to ultimately give them back door access to encryption. If that fails then it's stirring up the fear propaganda to get enough public support to make it illegal to use any non government crack-able encryption. It's nothing more than another step on the road to the mass surveillance apparatus the government is constantly expanding.

The police have the phone, they are more than welcome to try and crack it, best of luck to them, however they should not be allowed to force Apple to comply.
 
As both Smoeki and cyclone3d have said, there is no reason at all to trust the government, especially the police. Just look at how certain European nations in our history have done things, hell... look at Russia for a reason why you should never trust the government.

Oh, but you have nothing to hide. Right? But what if you happen to be on the other side of the current leadership? Who's to stop the government from coming after you and violating your rights? In a police state, nothing. All of you who are supporting this and saying that the government should have wholesale access to our private data have no damn clue how bad things can get if and when that happens.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
A lot of Anti Police people here, whats up with that? Seems to be the "hip" thing to do now days I guess "Fight the power!" or whatever. When I was growing up Police Officers were revered & I always had the mindset of "If you're not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about". Has worked well for me up to this point.
 
mope54 said:
The constitution specifically prohibits this kind of fishing expedition. The worst part is how a warrant was authorized for this search despite that reality.
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He is dead. Tell me what Constitutional Rights he has, because from what I know about case law is that the Supreme Court has not explained that in terms of searching the dead's electronic devices. If you have some case law on that you would like to cite, I would like to read it....really.
 
Krenum said:
A lot of Anti Police people here, whats up with that? Seems to be the "hip" thing to do now days I guess "Fight the power!" or whatever. When I was growing up Police Officers were revered & I always had the mindset of "If you're not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about". Has worked well for me up to this point.
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I guess you haven't been paying attention to the news lately... NEWS FLASH! There's a lot of bad cops out there! Cops who have no business wearing a badge!
 
At least they have a warrant this time. Isn't that a tad better than the last time when the Feds wanted the same thing?
 
trparky said:
I guess you haven't been paying attention to the news lately... NEWS FLASH! There's a lot of bad cops out there! Cops who have no business wearing a badge!
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Oh I pay attention to the news a lot more than the average person I would guess. Most of the bad cop situations usually involve bad guys too.
 
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