Texas Instruments makes it harder to run programs on its calculators

erek

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Bummer!

"While this could please teachers worried that students will use apps to cheat during exams, enthusiasts are unsurprisingly mad. This reduces the amount of control programmers have over their calculator apps. As it stands, this might not have the intended effect. Some have already found ways to bypass the calculators’ Exam Mode — the updates may block ‘casual’ cheaters, but not determined ones. For now, fans will have to either cling to older TI software or accept that their calculators aren’t as flexible."

https://www.engadget.com/ti-bans-assembly-programs-on-calculators-002335088.html
 

tangoseal

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I use my Ti Nspire with CAS to work biological statistics and calculus all the time.

It would be a shame to limit everyone in the world like this. Fucking stupid if you ask me.

Why not just make a college edition that the school can buy a few hundred of and then hand out to the students before an exam. This way they are hard locked to whatever the prof/teacher wants and the students personal calculators are 100% normal.
 

tangoseal

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Many of my teachers were awesome and allowed any programs we made ourselves.
That was fantastic for statistics, we got together and hand programmed all our formulas for each test and he allowed us to use them.

Because he/she knew that you were actually learning the maths by writing the damn equations and programs into the calculator better than just reading a book and slamming a pencil on paper. Smart instructor. I wished they were all that way.
 

IdiotInCharge

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is there a bigger racket than public education and TI graphing calculators? its that one i had to buy for $150 that somehow couldnt be app? those calculators look retro future, what a piece of junk.
If you didn't buy a graphing calculator, then you'd need to have a phone -- and then you'd have to allow it on tests. There's no way that ends well.

Further, it's not the processing power of the calculators that's helpful, it's the buttons and general layout and ergonomics. TI's calculators are standardized more or less to the point that everyone knows how to use them or knows someone that knows how to use them, tutorials are a aplenty, and as others have mentioned, you have to have some degree of intelligence and ingenuity to really use them beyond their core functions. That's as much of a teaching aid as anything else.

Yes, TI makes bucketloads off of the ones they sell and yes, they could sell them for less; but as it stands, they're priced pretty well, cheaper than a book, are useful for decades, hold their value... it's not the best bargain, but it's not a bad one either.
 

pendragon1

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fine by me. im of the old school do it by hand or it doesnt count mindset.
and yes its kinda* a racket.
edit:*
 
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jfreund

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Does anybody actually use TI calculators? 25+ years ago I would see some in the field, but there is nothing a graphing calculator does that a phone or tablet can't do better.
 

pendragon1

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Does anybody actually use TI calculators? 25+ years ago I would see some in the field, but there is nothing a graphing calculator does that a phone or tablet can't do better.
except they dont have all the other phone stuff to worry about during exams.
 

DirtyTeeth

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If you didn't buy a graphing calculator, then you'd need to have a phone -- and then you'd have to allow it on tests. There's no way that ends well.
except they dont have all the other phone stuff to worry about during exams.

i dont think this is a good argument because again it could just be an app or a website on a $50 locked-down tablet or thousands of other ideas that dont involve proprietary 1980s hardware.
 

pendragon1

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i dont think this is a good argument because again it could just be an app or a website on a $50 locked-down tablet or thousands of other ideas that dont involve proprietary 1980s hardware.
so use a proprietary app or a different proprietary device to replace an "old" proprietary device. makes sense... :rolleyes:
 

IdiotInCharge

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i dont think this is a good argument because again it could just be an app or a website on a $50 locked-down tablet or thousands of other ideas that dont involve proprietary 1980s hardware.
Think about what it would take to replicate everything that a TI graphing calculator does -- or any other popular brand used around the world (HP, Casio?) -- while making it into a device that could be used in class, so safe for testing and so on.

I'm going to bet that there's just not much that can be improved upon from a bill of materials perspective. And again, a big part of it all is that the overall form factor really doesn't have much give; you want all of those physical buttons, you need batteries that last forever, you need the rugged build, and so on.
 

jfreund

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except they dont have all the other phone stuff to worry about during exams.
That's kind of my point. The calculators are used in education because of the racket TI has with schools. In actual work, the TI calculators are obsolete. Who benefits from the requirement to use the obsolete calculators in classes? Not the students.
 

pendragon1

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The calculators are used in education because of the racket TI has with schools. In actual work, the TI calculators are obsolete.
except its not just TI so not a racket but i get what your saying. they do what is needed, thats it and its more that i think should be allowed anyways.
 

Lakados

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That's kind of my point. The calculators are used in education because of the racket TI has with schools. In actual work, the TI calculators are obsolete. Who benefits from the requirement to use the obsolete calculators in classes? Not the students.
I would much rather see Matlab used instead it at least has real world applications.
 

Lakados

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except its not just TI so not a racket but i get what your saying. they do what is needed, thats it and its more that i think should be allowed anyways.
He's not wrong though back in the late 80's early 90's TI played some dirty pool and got their calculators worked into the curriculum, and once in it is pretty hard to actually pull that stuff out especially since they continue to lobby to keep their hardware in there.
 

pendragon1

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I would much rather see Matlab used instead it at least has real world applications.
fair point but that requires a more expensive device and licensing.

He's not wrong though back in the 80's TI played some dirty pool and got their calculators worked into the curriculum, and once in it is pretty hard to actually pull that stuff out especially since they continue to lobby to keep their hardware in there.
oh!? that was before my science calc time(95-97). ya old fart ;) where i am now its TI, casio or another i cant remember. TI isnt a must. different places, different curriculums i guess.
 

Lakados

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fair point but that requires a more expensive device and licensing.


oh!? that was before my science calc time(95-97). ya old fart ;) where i am now its TI, casio or another i cant remember. TI isnt a must. different places, different curriculums i guess.
Yeah back in the early 80's Cassio and HP were the de facto calculators used by most schools because they were cheap and could handle like 1-2 variable functions and in HP's case could do RPN, but than in the late 80's TI started lobbying the various textbook printers and got some of their specific features worked into the curriculum that was specific to their calculators, and by the early 90's most of the schools in North America were using those books and had to be using their calculators.

In regards to Matlab its now an iOS and Android app, you can get cheap Android based devices that are in the same price range to a TI graphing calculator and district wide educational licensing for K-12 on Matlab isn't bad, it's actually pretty reasonable.
 

vegeta535

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We never had to buy them when I went to school but we had them to use in classes. You can't require students to purchase expensive calculator or cell phones. Even in rich areas you still have those poor kids that families can't afford them.
 
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pendragon1

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In regards to Matlab its now an iOS and Android app, you can get cheap Android based devices that are in the same price range to a TI graphing calculator and district wide educational licensing for K-12 on Matlab isn't bad, it's actually pretty reasonable.
i guess. i didnt dig that deep on pricing but saw the "ask for a trial" so assumed. lots already have ipads, so just the app needed.

We never had to buy them when I went too school but we had them to use in classes. You can't require students to purchase expensive calculator or cell phones. Even n rich areas you still have those poor kids that families can't afford them.
yup. in two schools exactly like that. mostly really wealthy, like drop your kids off in the bentley/maserati wealthy and then a handful of not so much ones.
 

Lakados

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We never had to buy them when I went to school but we had them to use in classes. You can't require students to purchase expensive calculator or cell phones. Even in rich areas you still have those poor kids that families can't afford them.
we had to buy them at my school, there were loaners for people who couldn't but it was on our supplies list.
 

vegeta535

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we had to buy them at my school, there were loaners for people who couldn't but it was on our supplies list.
Yea guess it is fine if they loan but got forbid it gets scratched. Schools around here give every kid laptops but parents are 100% responsible for any damage. Hell a friend of mind had to fight with her school cause her kid dropped out before even going to school and claimed he got one lol. they trying to make her pay $800 for the "lost" laptop.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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This reminds me, I really should get some new batteries for my TI-85.

I had a Ti-85 in High School for my International Baccalaureate program in which I took higher level Physics, Chemistry and Math in the 1999 exams.

Someone stole mine from my bag at one point though which at the same time it made me sad, gave me an excuse to buy a Ti-89 I used through college and still have.

I was just considering buying an old Ti-85 on eBay for nostalgia purposes, when I saw this title which hurt my soul.

1664928641269.png


"Vintage", Really?

It wasn't made at the turn of the century for crying out loud!

Yes, I had to necro this thread to share this bullshit.
 

GotNoRice

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It seems like the more entrenched a company is in a particular market, the less innovation occurs. With all of the technological innovation that has occurred in the last 20-30 years it's insane that people are still using the exact same calculators from that era. I remember I had a TI-83+, my friend had a TI-85, and for poor students they would loan out scratched-up old TI-82 calculators.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It seems like the more entrenched a company is in a particular market, the less innovation occurs. With all of the technological innovation that has occurred in the last 20-30 years it's insane that people are still using the exact same calculators from that era. I remember I had a TI-83+, my friend had a TI-85, and for poor students they would loan out scratched-up old TI-82 calculators.

My stepson just started 9th grade (which apparently is highschool? I'm so confused. When I was in highschool - granted in a different country - high school was 10th through 12th grade) his algebra teacher requested that they bring calculators to school. To my surprise she suggested a TI-83.

My brain was like: "Wait a minute. That's what non-science kids used in the mid to late 90's".

She explicitly said she didn't feel like parents needed to go out and buy a new graphing calculator if they already had one laying around, which I appreciated, as I had two of them at home, my sisters old TI-83+ from college which somehow wound up among my stuff when she moved, and my old TI-89.

Sadly, the TI-83+ had old batteries in it which had leaked onto the board, and eaten away the power contact patches between the board and the battery compartment. (I hadn't thought to check if it had batteries in it when it wound up among my stuff from my sister). So it was toast. I let him use my TI-89 on a temporary basis, but it was technically not allowed in tests, as it can symbolically solve algebra, so we had to get something else.

Wound up ordering him a new TI-84 Plus Ce.

And you are right. Not much has changed. The only differences I can tell between the TI-83+ and the TI-84 Plus CE are:

1.) TI Graphing calculators now come in all the colors of the rainbow. (I gave him a choice and he chose the white one) Back in my day it was like the Model T. You could have any color you wanted, as long as it was black.

2.) The industrial design is a tiny bit more modern, just like how things got a little rounder and smoother when they went from the TI-85 to the TI-86

3.) It now has a color screen, so can graph your charts in color.

4.) It has a recharable Li-ION battery instead of taking four AAA batteries

Other than that, it has the exact same buttons in the exact same layout, the OS is identical (apart from the changes that allow for the color screen)

It's really quite amazing how little has changed in 25 years.
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Are they the only game in town though? Didn't HP also used to have a major graphic calculator presence?
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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casio is the other big one. not sure, might have been after my time... google says yes though.

I distinctly remember there being HP Scientific and graphing calculators, but I went with TI as that's what my highschool physics and math teachers recommended, and as luck would have it, my college on a different continent away recommended the same thing, so I didn't have to change.

I don't recall ever seeing Casio graphing calculators. I remember plenty of the cheap solar power early 80's 4 function Casio caculators, but never anything more advanced than that.

It's quite possible that what was popular differed internationally.

From what I recall in Sweden at the time in the late 90's, TI was apparently the most common/popular, with HP in second place. I never recall hearing about any other brands.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Unless that Lithium battery is removable, sounds like planned obsolescence to me. They don't want people to be able to simply put new batteries into a 20+ year old calculator like you tried to do.

Yep. That's probably the case. If they have the endurance of modern cellphone batteries, most of these will be bricks in 4 years time.

Maybe you can open them and replace the battery. Who knows.
 
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