Tesla owner blows up his Model S with dynamite over $22,000 battery replacement

harmattan

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Leasing makes it possible for anyone to drive around and look rich. Some really don't mind endlessly paying monthly payments for something you won't own. Not my cup of tea.
Renting a car just seems nuts to me. Sure, you may get a late-model car, but a) you're in an endless pay cycle and b) you don't own the thing. Also, mileage restrictions... It seems the same as renting a phone from Verizon.

The best cost/value option is buy a solid car used that you know was looked after, keep it maintained, and drive it for a long time. I'm at 100k with my x1 I paid 18k for 4 years ago, it still drives and looks beautiful. I plan to drive it to 200k at least. If they can't fix the longevity and replacement issues with current batteries, I'll likely never buy an EV since my above model won't work.
 

kirbyrj

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Renting a car just seems nuts to me. Sure, you may get a late-model car, but a) you're in an endless pay cycle and b) you don't own the thing.

The best cost/value option is buy a solid car used that you know was looked after, keep it maintained, and drive it for a long time. I'm at 100k with my x1 I paid 18k for 4 years ago, it still drives and looks beautiful. I plan to drive it to 200k at least. If they can't fix the longevity and replacement issues with current batteries, I'll likely never buy an EV since my above model won't work.

The problem is, right now, used car pricing is through the roof. Sure, in normal times, your plan works great and is a good balance between initial cost vs. repair cost. Right now, my Toyota dealer is offering me almost what I paid for my 4 year old 4Runner on a trade (replacing it is the issue obviously as you simply cannot get a good deal on a new car either. Even "MSRP" is often supplemented with dealer addon costs to make them a few thousand extra due to shortages).
 

NukeDukem

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Renting a car just seems nuts to me. Sure, you may get a late-model car, but a) you're in an endless pay cycle and b) you don't own the thing. Also, mileage restrictions... It seems the same as renting a phone from Verizon.

You will not own your car, and you will be happy! :D
 

Valnar

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The video would have been more exciting if they left the battery in. Without that, it's no different than blowing up a Chevy.

I like the idea of EV technology (I own a Zero FXS) but I really don't need to drive much since I work from home, which makes EV tech the worst of all scenarios for me. Lithium batteries degrade from non-use as much as use, so the number of miles it travels isn't a solid indicator of battery status. If grandma bought an EV car and only used it for groceries and doctor appointments, it would be burning money sitting in the garage until one day it died. All EV's have a time-limit.

Show me a classic EV "Mustang" or "Camaro" type of car 20 or 30 years from now that has been kept up. It'll never happen. It'll never happen again.
 

swetmore

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I am sure Rich enjoyed this video.. He fought Tesla for years over right to repair and other concerns as he would gather / use / sell used parts...

As a big Internet Finger to Tesla, he did this:

 

Nebulous

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Boom, It's raining parts, hallelujah, It's raining parts, hey hey!

weather_girls.jpg
 

Axman

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That'll show the enviroment!

Nobody cares, including the environment.

What crap are you driving? All of my vehicles were fine even after 400,000 miles.

My wife used to drive a relatively late-model PT Loser and it removed itself from service at less than 70K. Not all, but some cars are built to the thinnest standards for safety and reliability. Everybody wants more features, more horsepower, better efficiency ... something's gotta give.
 

defaultluser

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It's just as expensive on the hydrogen fuel cell side.: the 2020 Marai costs 14k to replace the fuel tank, and the fuel cells are around the same price

Hydrogen is 3x the price vs direct-charge BEV and exactly the same long-term maintenance costs
 
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DukenukemX

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He must have over 200k miles on that thing if it needs a battery replacement.

He got his money's worth.
No he didn't. A battery shouldn't cost anywhere near $22k. This is just Tesla telling you it's time to spend $60k+ on a new car. Tesla has been very anti repair.
Most cars are mostly disposable after 100k...
Yea, those who don't buy Toyota's and Lexus's. My 2007 Lexus IS250 has over 200k. My uncle's 2007 Tahoe has over 210k. My 1985 Porsche 928 has 210k miles on it. My other uncle's 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the straight six has 260K miles. If you buy a shit car like modern Chevy's with 3.6L engines that lose timing due to stretching of their timing chain, or Nissan's with CVT transmissions that go bad very easily, or how about all the BMW's and Mercedes's that were built after the year 2000 where the engines have so many plastic components that eventually fail due to heat fatigue and need stuff replaced all time. I feel bad for Mini Cooper owners for the amount of shit that's going to go wrong. Honda's and Acura's can be good cars if you avoid their automatic transmissions because Honda can't build a good auto trans. I think after the year 2013 they got their shit together but the only good Honda is one with a standard transmission or colloquial known as manual.

Most cars sold today are shit, which is why beyond 100k they're ready for the junk yard. The cost to repair them usually exceeds their value, so there's no point in fixing them. If you change all the fluids usually around 30k miles then the car will last much longer than 100k. Change your transmission fluid or get ready for needing a rebuilt trans. They don't have lifetime fluid as some manufacturers will claim. Change your brake fluid because brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb water, which not only makes it worse to brake but rusts brake lines. If you have a differential then change the fluid unless you like paying thousands for a rebuild. Usually RWD have a diff as well as AWD cars. If your car doesn't go beyond 100k then you just put gas and change the oil maybe every 15k miles.
 

Shoganai

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Nobody cares, including the environment.



My wife used to drive a relatively late-model PT Loser and it removed itself from service at less than 70K. Not all, but some cars are built to the thinnest standards for safety and reliability. Everybody wants more features, more horsepower, better efficiency ... something's gotta give.
Well PT cruisers are dog turds.
 

Wade88

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The problem is, right now, used car pricing is through the roof. Sure, in normal times, your plan works great and is a good balance between initial cost vs. repair cost. Right now, my Toyota dealer is offering me almost what I paid for my 4 year old 4Runner on a trade (replacing it is the issue obviously as you simply cannot get a good deal on a new car either. Even "MSRP" is often supplemented with dealer addon costs to make them a few thousand extra due to shortages).
This is where car collections are handy. You can sell your excess stock for absurd money and buy what you want later when the market isn't so absurd, then invest the rest into something else. You know, like computer parts and ammunition.
 

MaZa

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That's not most people. Most people get rid of their cars way before they'd ever reach that kind of mileage.

Welcome to Finland where salaries severely lag behind the cost of living and our governement milks everything automotive related like it is an endless source of money or something. Everything from buying a car new or old, driving it because of ridiculous gasoline taxes and yearly taxes from just owning the damn thing even if you do not drive it. Oh, and if you own a diesel it is taxed even more, not because of pollution but because they consume less fuel and governement gets less tax money from fuel purchases. 🤦‍♂️

We drive our cars until they stop moving or they fail the yearly mandatory inspection and repairing it would cost more than buying another piece of junk but one that still passes inspections. 300k (in case of Diesels, even 500k) is not uncommon. Only the rich can buy new cars here (even the small "shopping cart" cars) and common folk can only buy used. You mostly see late '90s and early 2000's cars on the road here. Now that there is a huge push for electric cars the common folk are worried that can they buy old electric cars and if they do then can they replace the stupidly expensive batteries in them.
 

Pantalaimon

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300k (in case of Diesels, even 500k) is not uncommon
That's quite a bit of exaggeration. You'd have to go out of your way to spec a car to the gills to get the price up to 300K.
 

Wade88

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That's quite a bit of exaggeration. You'd have to go out of your way to spec a car to the gills to get the price up to 300K.
If they run it like singapore it could be wrt the taxation on new cars, especially if they tax displacement.
 

XenIneX

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That's quite a bit of exaggeration. You'd have to go out of your way to spec a car to the gills to get the price up to 300K.
...

Mileage, not Money. Though I'd assume he's talking kilometers, so it'd be more like 200k miles.
 

DukenukemX

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Welcome to Finland where salaries severely lag behind the cost of living and our governement milks everything automotive related like it is an endless source of money or something. Everything from buying a car new or old, driving it because of ridiculous gasoline taxes and yearly taxes from just owning the damn thing even if you do not drive it. Oh, and if you own a diesel it is taxed even more, not because of pollution but because they consume less fuel and governement gets less tax money from fuel purchases. 🤦‍♂️
Welcome to America where most Americans can't afford the cheapest new car. Those 7+ million that think they can are 90 days late on auto loan payments. There's a reason why a lot of us think that eventually the housing market will crash as well as the auto market. Too many people who think they can make the loan payments when we all know they won't.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-se...ddle-class-cant-afford-their-cars-11569941215
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/research/auto-loan-debt-study/
We drive our cars until they stop moving or they fail the yearly mandatory inspection and repairing it would cost more than buying another piece of junk but one that still passes inspections. 300k (in case of Diesels, even 500k) is not uncommon. Only the rich can buy new cars here (even the small "shopping cart" cars) and common folk can only buy used. You mostly see late '90s and early 2000's cars on the road here. Now that there is a huge push for electric cars the common folk are worried that can they buy old electric cars and if they do then can they replace the stupidly expensive batteries in them.
Considering how much Europe pays for gasoline I'd easily want to jump onto electric if I were in your position. But like you said by the time those electric cars trickle down, the cost of repairing them isn't feasible. This is why I don't understand people who are trying their best to remove gasoline based cars for the environment when it's just hurting the people. Most people can't afford new cars and that includes electric. A lot of the problems we Americans are dealing with are due to the Cash For Clunkers deal that the government did soon after the 2008 crash which offered people money for their old cars in order to buy a new car. This is a win for auto manufacturers who had to take a loan from the Federal government as well as the environment but the government ordered those cars crushed despite that they were perfect working cars. The result was that used car market had less cars and those who couldn't afford new cars were basically screwed. RCR did a 1 hour video on it that was very informative.

 

wtfnub

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A Tesla Model S owner in Finland decided to blow up his electric car with dynamite after it needed a battery replacement, which Tesla said was going to cost $22,000.

He reached out to YouTuber Pommijätkät, a channel known for blowing things up, to strap 30 kg of dynamite to the electric vehicle and blow it up:



To be fair, they did remove the non-functioning battery pack and other expensive parts, like the electric motor, before blowing up the car.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/

(the high battery replacement cost is mainly for early vehicles that were produced in lower volumes.

It’s more expensive to have battery replacements for those vehicles.

Battery pack replacements for higher-volume vehicles like Model 3 and Model Y are expected to be much less expensive when they will be needed off warranty, and also battery technology is improving, which makes them last longer.)


I approve of this post, I’m not against electric vehicles, just tesla’s.
 

MaZa

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Almost certain MaZa was saying miles (maybe km?) there, not price.

Km. I am Finnish so we do not use miles. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't thinking that some were using miles here actually. Anyway, yes I was talking about how long you can drive the car before it becomes so old that it may not be worth it.

Old Taxi's not included, they are well treated and the "miles" come up very quick. Used to own E39 chassis BMW 530 diesel old Taxi. 400k driven when I bought it. Damn good car, no major technical issues, too bad that rust became a problem. 😅
 
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Dark12

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No doubt, I've made old Volvo's last close to 400k miles. But I'm not most people.

The typical car owner does not keep up with maintenance. You are lucky if they remember to change the oil once every 35k miles or so.

Also, that said even if you keep up with most modern car manufacturers 10K oil change intervals, and sealed "life of the car" transmission fluid, you are not doing good things for your car. Believe it or not, fully synthetic oil is not *magic*.

The problem I run into, is that I am meticulous with my cars. Every little rattle, squeak or cosmetic imperfection gets dealt with immediately. The cars receive oil changes every 3k-5k miles, and transmission flushes every ~50k or so, regardless of what the manufacturer's recommendations are.

I have a 22 year old Volvo station wagon right now. It looks and runs like new, but the instant anything happens to it because some asshat sideswipes me in a parking lot or something like that it gets totaled by insurance, because on paper it is worth $3500, with complete disregard for all the work and money I've put into the thing keeping it pristine and in perfect mechanical condition.

Most people treat their cars like they are disposable after 100k miles, and because of this they wind up being so, unless you want to spend time and money to keep an older car in great shape only to be screwed over by insurance companies.
My '95 850 turbo got totalled after some dummy smashed the hell out of my car while i was parked several years ago. I had a lot of tuning and aftermarket stuff done to it. Got jack shit for it.
It was such a fun car with tons of life left at 250k miles.
 
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I plan on buying a EV truck in 2024 and I'll be OK with replacing the battery after 100 to 200K miles for $5 to 10K if it meant a substantial increase in range using new battery technology. I'll be 50 years old by then and want to treat my next vehicle as my last vehicle, as sad as that may sound.

I really think my young children will be the last to learn to how to drive and my grandchildren won't need to. Change is happening with automobiles, get ready for it.
 

DukenukemX

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I approve of this post, I’m not against electric vehicles, just tesla’s.
I'm not against Tesla's or electric but blowing up the car is probably more profitable than selling it. The YouTube video probably made the guy more money then he could selling the Model S. It's not like Elon Musk is upset that you blew up the car as well. In fact he's probably happy that you did. Tesla is very anti repair and that Model S could have been fixed. Sure the battery costs $22k from Tesla but then again why are you at the dealer to fix any car, especially Tesla? I wouldn't take a Chevy or a Toyota to their respective dealers because everyone knows they'll price gouge you, so why would Tesla be any different?

I would have either attempted to repair the car or sold it for parts. The older Tesla's use thousands of Tesla 18650 which isn't hard to source. Sure Tesla is a shitty company but then who isn't? Is Toyota morally correct? Apparently not. GM certainly has been morally bankrupt for some time now. With gas and automotive prices as they are I would have gladly taken the car and repaired it myself as well as modded it to say fuck you to Tesla's to unlock all the features. Gas powered cars fucking suck and anyone who disagrees with me hasn't put their hand in an engine to repair it. It really sucks to put my hand in an engine to get it all cut up to replace something that clearly was never meant to be replaced, because otherwise it wouldn't be in such a difficult location to access. You could argue I should just let mechanics do it, but my experience is that most mechanics can't do the job. Most mechanics are only good for brakes and tires and even then that's stretching it. If they aren't bad mechanics then they're corrupt as I've had my fair share of mechanics who broke things deliberately in order to get a bigger pay day. Electric vehicles like the Tesla is better since the only maintenance is tires and brakes. I'm not going to give up my gas powered car either since I do take long trips and no matter what electric vehicle owners say I'd rather just spend 5 minutes and fill up and go than to sit there for an hour and still not get a full charge. The cost to recharge a Tesla at home is like $10 to $15 compared to the $60 to $70 for gas in my cars. So the appeal is there but as always the cost is prohibitive and a quick look shows the cheapest used Tesla is like $30k+. Nissan Leafs are much cheaper but the older models have a range that isn't realistic for most daily drivers. So yea, I would have fixed that Tesla.

 

Aurelius

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I plan on buying a EV truck in 2024 and I'll be OK with replacing the battery after 100 to 200K miles for $5 to 10K if it meant a substantial increase in range using new battery technology. I'll be 50 years old by then and want to treat my next vehicle as my last vehicle, as sad as that may sound.

I really think my young children will be the last to learn to how to drive and my grandchildren won't need to. Change is happening with automobiles, get ready for it.

There's good reason to be cautious about the transition to EVs and self-driving, but I'm baffled by the people who act as if existing flaws are fatal or that they can somehow avoid this shift. I've talked to a few people who really do think they'll keep driving gas cars for the rest of their life... never mind that gas stations will probably die out relatively quickly once EVs dominate sales. They're so incapable of seeing beyond the status quo, so resistant to change, that they assume the current state will last forever.

But the truth is things do change. EVs will get longer ranges and more sustainable batteries (although my understanding is that a modern EV's net impact is still lower than a comparable ICE vehicle). Prices will go down; choices will go up. And we certainly shouldn't listen to those who imply we should kill EV development simply because it's not perfect right now.
 
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There's good reason to be cautious about the transition to EVs and self-driving, but I'm baffled by the people who act as if existing flaws are fatal or that they can somehow avoid this shift. I've talked to a few people who really do think they'll keep driving gas cars for the rest of their life... never mind that gas stations will probably die out relatively quickly once EVs dominate sales. They're so incapable of seeing beyond the status quo, so resistant to change, that they assume the current state will last forever.

But the truth is things do change. EVs will get longer ranges and more sustainable batteries (although my understanding is that a modern EV's net impact is still lower than a comparable ICE vehicle). Prices will go down; choices will go up. And we certainly shouldn't listen to those who imply we should kill EV development simply because it's not perfect right now.
Gas stations won't die out, they'll just change over to EV charging stations with less pumps. It's like diesel, there's often just 1 or 2 pumps that have it.
 

wtfnub

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I'm not against Tesla's or electric but blowing up the car is probably more profitable than selling it. The YouTube video probably made the guy more money then he could selling the Model S. It's not like Elon Musk is upset that you blew up the car as well. In fact he's probably happy that you did. Tesla is very anti repair and that Model S could have been fixed. Sure the battery costs $22k from Tesla but then again why are you at the dealer to fix any car, especially Tesla? I wouldn't take a Chevy or a Toyota to their respective dealers because everyone knows they'll price gouge you, so why would Tesla be any different?

I would have either attempted to repair the car or sold it for parts. The older Tesla's use thousands of Tesla 18650 which isn't hard to source. Sure Tesla is a shitty company but then who isn't? Is Toyota morally correct? Apparently not. GM certainly has been morally bankrupt for some time now. With gas and automotive prices as they are I would have gladly taken the car and repaired it myself as well as modded it to say fuck you to Tesla's to unlock all the features. Gas powered cars fucking suck and anyone who disagrees with me hasn't put their hand in an engine to repair it. It really sucks to put my hand in an engine to get it all cut up to replace something that clearly was never meant to be replaced, because otherwise it wouldn't be in such a difficult location to access. You could argue I should just let mechanics do it, but my experience is that most mechanics can't do the job. Most mechanics are only good for brakes and tires and even then that's stretching it. If they aren't bad mechanics then they're corrupt as I've had my fair share of mechanics who broke things deliberately in order to get a bigger pay day. Electric vehicles like the Tesla is better since the only maintenance is tires and brakes. I'm not going to give up my gas powered car either since I do take long trips and no matter what electric vehicle owners say I'd rather just spend 5 minutes and fill up and go than to sit there for an hour and still not get a full charge. The cost to recharge a Tesla at home is like $10 to $15 compared to the $60 to $70 for gas in my cars. So the appeal is there but as always the cost is prohibitive and a quick look shows the cheapest used Tesla is like $30k+. Nissan Leafs are much cheaper but the older models have a range that isn't realistic for most daily drivers. So yea, I would have fixed that Tesla.



I agree with basically 99.999% of what you say but, the only repair company that I would take my car to without any hesitations is Kingdigit designs, ok they are not an every man car shop, but they be car gods in my opinion and they will fix your car so long as you don’t mind waiting 5 years for your turn in the waiting list and then needing to wear a 12 inch wide buttplug afterwards to stop you from shitting yourself because they raped you in the process.

Trying to fix car engines nowadays is some nasa type shit.

Edit;

I saw something on tv the other day, it was about new gas stations being built that could charge a car in 20 minutes, also in the case of a power cut they had enough onsite batteries and generators that could last up to a year, they also made the gas station in to a mini mall with shops and a restaurant, basically something to fill in your time until your car charges.
 
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Axman

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Gas stations won't die out, they'll just change over to EV charging stations with less pumps. It's like diesel, there's often just 1 or 2 pumps that have it.

Gas stations won't die out because the majority of people who are interested in EVs and have the infrastructure to support them have become early adopters, the rest of the world doesn't want to stand around a charging station for an hour just to top a car off on the way home from work.
 

Aurelius

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Gas stations won't die out, they'll just change over to EV charging stations with less pumps. It's like diesel, there's often just 1 or 2 pumps that have it.
I can see them dying out entirely, but you're right in that there will likely be a period where gas sticks around as the 'legacy' option for people who still need it. I just think we shouldn't count on gas being as easy to find as it is now. You may have to plan routes between gas stations in the way you do with EVs today.
 
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I can see them dying out entirely, but you're right in that there will likely be a period where gas sticks around as the 'legacy' option for people who still need it. I just think we shouldn't count on gas being as easy to find as it is now. You may have to plan routes between gas stations in the way you do with EVs today.
That might be quite a long way in the future. I could see it in another 20-30 years though.
 

Aurelius

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That might be quite a long way in the future. I could see it in another 20-30 years though.
That's what I'm thinking. Not in the near future, certainly, but some time after ICE car sales have been banned and the remaining ones grow scarcer.
 

DukenukemX

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Because they don't want people to have the freedom to drive.
There's some people who are big into more public transportation because America's public transportation is lacking compared to Europe. But we're in a situation where putting a lot of people into a giant human meat can during a pandemic isn't exactly healthy. Not to forget that I like driving my car and I like going faster than the average idiot on the road. I like my freedom I just don't want to pay up my nose for it, which is what a lot of pro climate people seem to want to do to punish people for driving a car. Make people pay more money to drive so they don't drive and ruin the environment.

There's good reason to be cautious about the transition to EVs and self-driving, but I'm baffled by the people who act as if existing flaws are fatal or that they can somehow avoid this shift. I've talked to a few people who really do think they'll keep driving gas cars for the rest of their life... never mind that gas stations will probably die out relatively quickly once EVs dominate sales. They're so incapable of seeing beyond the status quo, so resistant to change, that they assume the current state will last forever.
Gas stations won't go away anytime soon and the transition will continue to be slow so long as the price of vehicles is above $20k. It's like graphic cards right now where we all assume that these prices will stick around forever where in reality it won't. These prices will create a market crash and therefore even more people will continue to drive gasoline cars. The more people who drive electric then the lower the price of gasoline will get and therefore the more attractive it'll be to drive gas powered cars.

One thing to understand in situations where the price of products is beyond what is acceptable is that the market will respond. When gas was nearly $5 per gallon back in 2006-2008 we saw things like people converting their cars to use natural gas, fracking, Tesla, and people dumping their SUV's. The market will respond again but this time it's China entering the market with their cheap electric cars. Even still, it'll be a while before Americans can even afford those vehicles. What Americans want is the Dodge Neon equivalent of the electric car, and nobody has created that yet.
But the truth is things do change. EVs will get longer ranges and more sustainable batteries (although my understanding is that a modern EV's net impact is still lower than a comparable ICE vehicle). Prices will go down; choices will go up. And we certainly shouldn't listen to those who imply we should kill EV development simply because it's not perfect right now.
It's still better for the environment to keep driving an old gasoline powered car than to junk it for a new EV. But 99% of people don't care about the environment so they'll drive what's cheap and gasoline cars are cheaper than electric. That's why hydrogen powered cars had no chance since the cost of hydrogen is insane, besides the insane cost of the car itself.

I agree with basically 99.999% of what you say but, the only repair company that I would take my car to without any hesitations is Kingdigit designs, ok they are not an every man car shop, but they be car gods in my opinion and they will fix your car so long as you don’t mind waiting 5 years for your turn in the waiting list and then needing to wear a 12 inch wide buttplug afterwards to stop you from shitting yourself because they raped you in the process.

Trying to fix car engines nowadays is some nasa type shit.
There are some good mechanics and I know maybe like two in my area, but they don't come cheap. I've had mechanics that have been in this business for 25 years that couldn't figure out how to fix something that took me 5 minutes of zero experience in fixing it. Local mechanic tried to change the brakes on my neighbors 2007 Cobalt and apparently they didn't know how to put together drum brakes. They over torqued the handbrake cable thus breaking it, and my neighbor came to me because he saw me using a welder and wanted me to weld the adjuster nut since the mechanic destroyed the threads on the hand brake handle. I did weld it but it didn't fix his issue. Apparently the mechanic put the brake pads on wrong and I just Google'd a photo of how they should look in order to fix it. Shitty mechanics can kill you via no brakes, but corrupt capitalist mechanics will kill you willing. Woman I knew went to a mechanic and came back with a missing brake pad. Brake Pads don't fall out. They took it out hoping she'd come back to get her brakes done, thus nearly killing her in the process.

When I say that most mechanics can barely change oil and brakes, I mean barely. As a Tesla owner you wouldn't be except from this level of fuckery.
 
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cjcox

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2 days later he opened a letter that reminded him that his lease was up.
 

Aurelius

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Gas stations won't go away anytime soon and the transition will continue to be slow so long as the price of vehicles is above $20k. It's like graphic cards right now where we all assume that these prices will stick around forever where in reality it won't. These prices will create a market crash and therefore even more people will continue to drive gasoline cars. The more people who drive electric then the lower the price of gasoline will get and therefore the more attractive it'll be to drive gas powered cars.

One thing to understand in situations where the price of products is beyond what is acceptable is that the market will respond. When gas was nearly $5 per gallon back in 2006-2008 we saw things like people converting their cars to use natural gas, fracking, Tesla, and people dumping their SUV's. The market will respond again but this time it's China entering the market with their cheap electric cars. Even still, it'll be a while before Americans can even afford those vehicles. What Americans want is the Dodge Neon equivalent of the electric car, and nobody has created that yet.
This isn't supported by the evidence.

The average price of a US car is around $46,000, and even the average compact car's price is around $25,000. Now, luxury cars will skew the overall average, but the data makes it pretty clear that most cars sell for well over $20K. The majority of the best-selling vehicles in the US as of October 2021 were SUVs, trucks and mid-range sedans. And prices aren't about to slide any time soon (when's the last time car prices dropped?) EV prices do need to get lower for mainstream adoption, but not that low. I'd say the magic will happen when new prices edge closer to $30K and are backed up by solid range and healthy charging networks.

Also... I'm not sure if you understand how supply-and-demand economics work. The more people drive EVs, the lower the demand for gas; the lower the demand, the higher prices have to be to make up for the reduced sales numbers. Oil isn't sold like clearance items at TJ Maxx.
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,400
This isn't supported by the evidence.

The average price of a US car is around $46,000, and even the average compact car's price is around $25,000. Now, luxury cars will skew the overall average, but the data makes it pretty clear that most cars sell for well over $20K.
Like I said, 50% of Americans can't afford the cheapest new car. Not the average price, the cheapest price. Luxury cars are kinda vague since it's hard to label something Luxury. There are Luxury Toyota's and yet we have Lexus. When I say we I mean Americans since Lexus doesn't really have much of a presence outside of our country. Japan sells the cars but under the Toyota brand name. The same goes for Acura. The reason why car prices are insane right now is the same reason why houses are insane. We don't care how much it costs but how much our monthly fee is. Americans don't care if their auto loan lasts several years so long as they can afford the monthly fee. So prices go up and we end up buying used cars as the norm.
The majority of the best-selling vehicles in the US as of October 2021 were SUVs, trucks and mid-range sedans.
Which I assure you that if gas prices continue to stay high that those SUVs and trucks will be sold for very cheap soon. That's what happened back in 2006-2008 when gas hit $5 per gallon.
And prices aren't about to slide any time soon (when's the last time car prices dropped?) [/quote
Cash for Clunkers made sure that prices never went down. We are no better off for it.
EV prices do need to get lower for mainstream adoption, but not that low. I'd say the magic will happen when new prices edge closer to $30K and are backed up by solid range and healthy charging networks.
The Tesla Model 3 was already $35k and now it's nearly $40k. The problem many people don't understand is the car needs to be $20k for mass adoption.
Also... I'm not sure if you understand how supply-and-demand economics work. The more people drive EVs, the lower the demand for gas; the lower the demand, the higher prices have to be to make up for the reduced sales numbers. Oil isn't sold like clearance items at TJ Maxx.
When the pandemic hit we had gas prices at nearly $1 per gallon because people didn't drive as much. Too much supply and too little demand will lower prices. Of course they can choose to lower supply to increase prices like they're doing now but even that has market forces working against them. Not something you have to worry about because nobody makes a $20k electric car that's not ugly and has decent range. China could come and fix that but time will tell how that works out, if at all.
 
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Tengis

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 11, 2003
Messages
5,556
It really sucks to put my hand in an engine to get it all cut up to replace something that clearly was never meant to be replaced, because otherwise it wouldn't be in such a difficult location to access. You could argue I should just let mechanics do it, but my experience is that most mechanics can't do the job. Most mechanics are only good for brakes and tires and even then that's stretching it. If they aren't bad mechanics then they're corrupt as I've had my fair share of mechanics who broke things deliberately in order to get a bigger pay day. Electric vehicles like the Tesla is better since the only maintenance is tires and brakes.

As a mechanic (basically), this is pretty much... ridiculous. If you cant get in and replace a part then you dont belong in an engine bay, period. There are very few situations that I could legitimately say are maintenance nightmares. This is so absurd I dont even know how to properly respond to it.

Electric vehicles "like Tesla" will eventually require repairs and/or a battery. Maintenance/repairs will be more expensive because only Tesla can work on/service them.

My total cost of ownership of one of my cars over 12 years (including gas for driving about 160k on it) is still likely under 20k. Learn how to work with your hands and youll never pay a shmuck to do work for you again.
 

NickM

Gawd
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
522
As a mechanic (basically), this is pretty much... ridiculous. If you cant get in and replace a part then you dont belong in an engine bay, period. There are very few situations that I could legitimately say are maintenance nightmares. This is so absurd I dont even know how to properly respond to it.

Electric vehicles "like Tesla" will eventually require repairs and/or a battery. Maintenance/repairs will be more expensive because only Tesla can work on/service them.

My total cost of ownership of one of my cars over 12 years (including gas for driving about 160k on it) is still likely under 20k. Learn how to work with your hands and youll never pay a shmuck to do work for you again.
Know how I know you've never had to deal with a Toyota V6 starter? :ROFLMAO:
 

Nicklebon

Gawd
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
867
He must have over 200k miles on that thing if it needs a battery replacement.

He got his money's worth.

Most cars are mostly disposable after 100k...

What kind of shitty cars do you drive? Every car I've ever owned has gone over 200K with zero major problems. My current car is a 2003 Baja and has 240K and has never even had a minor issue.
 

vegeta535

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
9,662
My hats of to you people that are able to reach such mileage. I just have bad luck. I never had a car get over 50k. Someone normally slams into it and gets totaled.
 
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