Starcraft 2 Beta

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
DAMN IT!!! I took my 1st 2v2 loss tonight, my basement flooded and the power went out. No SC 2 until it's dry down here!
 

refraxion

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
8,423
DAMN IT!!! I took my 1st 2v2 loss tonight, my basement flooded and the power went out. No SC 2 until it's dry down here!

Heh yeah.. losses are losses, and its beta so it doesn't really matter anyways :p.

Even when retail comes out, just remember even the pros have only like 60-70% win ratios usually.
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
Yeah lol I don't really care I'm just pissed about my basement. Fortunately we have two industrial strength shop vacs. It took roughly five hours to get all of the water out, now the carpet is just a little wet. Fortunately we have a good carpet cleaner, some big fans, and two nice dehumidifiers.

Almost ready to play a game, need something to do while my towels dry. :D
 

Serpico

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 8, 2000
Messages
8,425
DAMN IT!!! I took my 1st 2v2 loss tonight, my basement flooded and the power went out. No SC 2 until it's dry down here!

Phew, glad I wasn't on your team when that happened, I can't have you dragging down my stats. ;)
 

Syntaxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,373
QUESTION!

What is the best way for protoss to counter/defend/defeat a Mass Hydra invasion?

i thought I had the guy I had a bunch of sentry's and stalkers and a few of those Anti-Air planes, i was enabling the bubble shield and he still f'n owned me.. That is the hardest thing for me even when I play terran/protoss if someone goes mass hydra's i get f'n owned. i hate it.

Tips thx.
 

Jutsu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,886
QUESTION!

What is the best way for protoss to counter/defend/defeat a Mass Hydra invasion?

i thought I had the guy I had a bunch of sentry's and stalkers and a few of those Anti-Air planes, i was enabling the bubble shield and he still f'n owned me.. That is the hardest thing for me even when I play terran/protoss if someone goes mass hydra's i get f'n owned. i hate it.

Tips thx.

If you see your opponent go Hydra intermediately start building Colossus and get the range upgrade ASAP. Support them with Sentries and Zealots. Use Force Field to keep the Hydra out of attack range while the Colossus melt them. If you don't have the energy for Force Fields then get the tactical advantage by using high ground/vision to kite the Colossus and deal damage.

If your opponent goes Corruptors to counter the Colossus then get High Templars and Feedback them. Also the combination on Psi Storm and Colossus is devastating to any Zerg ground composition.

You definitely need scout your Zerg opponent. I usually open 2 Gate, Robo and see with early zealot pressure to see where they go. A lot of people drop a Roach Warren just to trick you into building Immortals and then go Hydra
 

Syntaxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,373
If you see your opponent go Hydra intermediately start building Colossus and get the range upgrade ASAP. Support them with Sentries and Zealots. Use Force Field to keep the Hydra out of attack range while the Colossus melt them. If you don't have the energy for Force Fields then get the tactical advantage by using high ground/vision to kite the Colossus and deal damage.

If your opponent goes Corruptors to counter the Colossus then get High Templars and Feedback them. Also the combination on Psi Storm and Colossus is devastating to any Zerg ground composition.

You definitely need scout your Zerg opponent. I usually open 2 Gate, Robo and see with early zealot pressure to see where they go. A lot of people drop a Roach Warren just to trick you into building Immortals and then go Hydra

thanks for the tips but shit i made a mistake I didn't mean MASS hydra's im sorry i meant to say MASS Mutalisk's. That is what I have a problem with. Mass Muta's my bad :(
 

Jutsu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,886
thanks for the tips but shit i made a mistake I didn't mean MASS hydra's im sorry i meant to say MASS Mutalisk's. That is what I have a problem with. Mass Muta's my bad :(

To counter Mutalisk properly you need to scout the Spire as it goes down and pretty much take counteractive measures to make them not want to produce anymore Mutalisks. If you don't stop them early on and let them reach critical mass its pretty much a GG.

As soon as you see the Spire go down, drop a Forge if you haven't already and then drop some Cannons along your mineral line. By the time they have Mutalisks you should have been able to reinforce your bases and will deter any time of harassment for a while. At the same time you should start drop a Stargate or two, and start Chrono Boosting Phoenix. Using the Phoenix to pick off Mutalisk and harass the Zerg player by killing their Overlords and Drones. This will keep the Zerg players Mutalisks occupied and prevent them harassing you. If you are good enough you can even kill enough Overlords to food cap them and gain an the lead in food count.

Support the Phoenix with Blink Stalkers and Sentries with Weapon Upgrades. And try to take out your opponents Extractors because Mutalisk are very gas intensive and taking out a single geyser or two can cripple their production.

If you find yourself with extra mineral reinforce key structure with Cannons because they will buy you the time to move you unit into position to defend.

If your opponent gives up on Mutalisks, which they hopefully will then scout the tech switch and counter appropriately. Use the remaining Phoenix to harass or lift unit when engaging in battle.
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
thanks for the tips but shit i made a mistake I didn't mean MASS hydra's im sorry i meant to say MASS Mutalisk's. That is what I have a problem with. Mass Muta's my bad :(

If he's going mass muta right from the start you can probably pressure him pretty strongly in the beginning and end the game before he even gets going. If it looks like it's going to go into the mid to late game and you've scouted him and know he's going mutas you could tech up to a templar / stalker / sentry army which should do a good job of killing the mutas while still being able to protect you from a ground army via force field + storm. If you can let him come to you with all those mutas near a choke you should be golden. Force field the choke to stop any lings from getting through and then storm the bejesus out of his muta army then merge into some archons when your storm is all used up and let the lings in :).
 

Syntaxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,373
this is what he did very early game he rushed a bunch of lings, i was able to defend w/ Zealots and then got some cannons up and he came back again w/ more lings w/ speed upgrade. then i scouted saw he was going Muta's i tried to build a Bunch of stalkers and sentries then i had a decent amount he then pushed with his muta's but he had way to many and it was ova then ;(
 

TheResidentEvil

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
1,943
The patch reverted a lot of changes that were for internal testing ie longer zealot build time, longer reaper build time.

I played a 3v3 yesterday with two terrans on the sides and me as a toss in the middle. i went straight to voids and I hurt one of their bases but not enough. The terran on the right side got taken out but had expansions to keep him going. My voids were not working out well enough for me so i switched to carriers.

I never go carriers in sc2. it was my first time even building one. We ended up winning because the opponents had no anti air (which is pretty stupid considering I went voids right away and then carriers...) At the end the guy started bitching at me for going carriers saying it was a real pro move..lol

What is this? sc1? no one uses carriers in sc2!
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
this is what he did very early game he rushed a bunch of lings, i was able to defend w/ Zealots and then got some cannons up and he came back again w/ more lings w/ speed upgrade. then i scouted saw he was going Muta's i tried to build a Bunch of stalkers and sentries then i had a decent amount he then pushed with his muta's but he had way to many and it was ova then ;(

How many canons did you build? Did the number of cannons you built cut too deeply into your minerals to the point where you couldn't build the structures/units you needed to counter him? I like canons for the mineral line, but they are expensive and immobile. Also, did you seal your ramp to keep the lings from getting into the base, or did you do a more open base build allowing the lings to get in and surround your units and structures early in the game?
 

Syntaxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,373
How many canons did you build? Did the number of cannons you built cut too deeply into your minerals to the point where you couldn't build the structures/units you needed to counter him? I like canons for the mineral line, but they are expensive and immobile. Also, did you seal your ramp to keep the lings from getting into the base, or did you do a more open base build allowing the lings to get in and surround your units and structures early in the game?

the ramp was supported by buildings, cannons and units i handled the zergling harass pretty good but it threw me off a lil and slowed my economy down a bit in the beginning just from having to deal with them. I expanded and had some cannons protecting that expanison and some cannons on my ramp cut off area to the main i seriously had a decent amount of stalker + sentries but he had LOADS of Muta's.. and it was gg. :( But honestly the Muta's get me more than anything when i play against Zerg.
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
the ramp was supported by buildings, cannons and units i handled the zergling harass pretty good but it threw me off a lil and slowed my economy down a bit in the beginning just from having to deal with them. I expanded and had some cannons protecting that expanison and some cannons on my ramp cut off area to the main i seriously had a decent amount of stalker + sentries but he had LOADS of Muta's.. and it was gg. :( But honestly the Muta's get me more than anything when i play against Zerg.

I'd love to see the replay :). By some cannons I assume you mean 2 to 3. So if you had 2 to 3 cannons in your mineral pile and 2 to 3 at your ramp then you spend 600 to 900 minerals just on cannons. Did you find yourself strapped for cash while trying to build up your army? (I realize this is all theorycraft at this point of course).
 

Syntaxx

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
1,373
I'd love to see the replay :). By some cannons I assume you mean 2 to 3. So if you had 2 to 3 cannons in your mineral pile and 2 to 3 at your ramp then you spend 600 to 900 minerals just on cannons. Did you find yourself strapped for cash while trying to build up your army? (I realize this is all theorycraft at this point of course).

yeah pretty much but i did some cannons to expect some zergling rush on my expanison and a mix of Muta + zerglings. ill see if i can hook u up w/ replay at some point.
 
Last edited:

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
yeah pretty much but i did some cannons to expect some zergling rush on my expanison and a mix of Muta + zerglings.

Totally understandable. It's definitely easier to sit at my desk and critique a game I didn't play than to actually play the game. I think it may have been helpful though to choke with zealots (to stop the lings) and back them up with stalks instead of canons. Each cannon made is one less stalker you can make. At the same time you'd want to tech up quickly to temps or to phoenix (as someone else suggested). Temps would be the more defensive route IMO. Phoenix can be great against zerg for harassing and for killing mutas as you'll often find people retreat when you start moving your phoenix around their mutas and picking them off while moving (thus making it difficult to focus fire). If you can get a guy to retreat from your phoenix with his mutas you're in a great position as you can chase them down with the phoenix and significantly weaken or kill them. Then as the other poster said you can start going for ovies and straggling units (queens are really fun to beam up and kill). All of this would give you time to ramp up your econ/macro and outproduce him. If you can get him on the defensive (as it reads like he did to you with your cannoning and whatnot) then you can control the map and take over.
 

Jutsu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,886
Phoenix harass has become one of my favorites strategy as Protoss, forces Terran to build something other than Marauder and Tanks. You can force Zerg into Hydra and tech to Colossus, and against other Protoss players, most don't know what to do against it in the early game.
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
Phoenix harass has become one of my favorites strategy as Protoss, forces Terran to build something other than Marauder and Tanks. You can force Zerg into Hydra and tech to Colossus, and against other Protoss players, most don't know what to do against it in the early game.

What is your harass strategy against Terran and Toss with Phoenix? If a toss went fast stalks it'd be pretty tough to harass him. No? Against rauders it'd be great; I'd love to beam them up and dominate them one at a time while their tanks and other rauders just sit there helplessly :D.
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
I had a brief love affair with the phoenix build. and I think it's still fairly popular but it doesn't have a presence like it once did. Any time I play zerg I get hallucination, if you fly a hallucinated phoenix over a zerg base, they probably won't get a spire. Even if they do, you'll see the spire going down and you can get two stargates before the spire is done. More clever Zerg players will generate creep somewhere and hide a spire. In any case, stalkers with blink are almost always good against zerg, and it gives you a nice segue into psi storm. Remember, Psi storm does 80 damage. If you can get hydralisks off of creep, they'll basically just die. Colossus is always the best option against zerg ground if they're not starting with air and then transistioning into something else for the mid to late game.
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
Phoenix > Tanks. With proper support it will really hinder a terran army.

Stalkers with blink aren't bad either, you just need to position your self properly. I notice my self getting blink and charge against Terran fairly often. I like phoenixes, but making sure they have 50 energy can be tough.
 

Jutsu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,886
What is your harass strategy against Terran and Toss with Phoenix? If a toss went fast stalks it'd be pretty tough to harass him. No? Against rauders it'd be great; I'd love to beam them up and dominate them one at a time while their tanks and other rauders just sit there helplessly :D.

For both races I use to Phoenix to contain them to their base and scout. With info I get I can decide if I want to do a 3 Gate Proxy push a Protoss player's front for total containment and depending on the situation go all in for an early win or expand since I have map control and transition to mid-game.

If it is Terran, the Phoenix usually forces them to build extra marines, bunkers, or turrets and really slows down their overall economy. I use this advantage to go 2 Gate, 1 Robo, 1 Stargate and do an Immortal push, most of the time they wall off their ramp put tanks up top. I just use my Phoenix to lift the tanks and push in.

Early stalkers are a threat but until my opponent gets Blink the mobility of a Phoenix makes them come out on top. If I haven't killed my opponent by the time they have Blink I have usually transitioned into some other tech.
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
For both races I use to Phoenix to contain them to their base and scout. With info I get I can decide if I want to do a 3 Gate Proxy push a Protoss player's front for total containment and depending on the situation go all in for an early win or expand since I have map control and transition to mid-game.

If it is Terran, the Phoenix usually forces them to build extra marines, bunkers, or turrets and really slows down their overall economy. I use this advantage to go 2 Gate, 1 Robo, 1 Stargate and do an Immortal push, most of the time they wall off their ramp put tanks up top. I just use my Phoenix to lift the tanks and push in.

Early stalkers are a threat but until my opponent gets Blink the mobility of a Phoenix makes them come out on top. If I haven't killed my opponent by the time they have Blink I have usually transitioned into some other tech.

Against Terran that is bioball what do you do? He could quickly transition into vikings to deal with your phoenix while pushing out with his ball, and thanks to a reactor could outproduce you in the air (assuming he has the gas/minerals).

One thing against terran that could be huge would be to beam his mules, rather than scv's or units, up and kill them.
That alone would set a terran economy much farther behind than a chorno'd toss econ.

edit: can pheonix lift SCVs while they are building? That alone could be huge if you could stop an scv from finishing a CC or supply lock a terran by lifting and killing SCVs that are building supply depots.
 

Jutsu

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,886
Against Terran that is bioball what do you do? He could quickly transition into vikings to deal with your phoenix while pushing out with his ball, and thanks to a reactor could outproduce you in the air (assuming he has the gas/minerals).

One thing against terran that could be huge would be to beam his mules, rather than scv's or units, up and kill them.
That alone would set a terran economy much farther behind than a chorno'd toss econ.

edit: can pheonix lift SCVs while they are building? That alone could be huge if you could stop an scv from finishing a CC or supply lock a terran by lifting and killing SCVs that are building supply depots.

Phoenix own Vikings, all you have to do is sit them on top of their Starport and kill the Viking/Medivacs as they pop out. Forces the player to make Marines or Turrets and keep the ball in his base which you can then kite/harass around. Doesn't work all the time though and is hard to pull off if they a really early Starport. But if you get the early air advantage you can abuse it.

You can lift off SCV's and stop them from building and they will just sit there until they are ordered to build again. :D
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
I was reading about how Voids charge up and that their reaching full attack power is based on hitting 6 consecutive attacks. Since Voids hold their charge, I believe at whatever level, for 5 seconds after stopping their attack couldn't you rapidly alternate between two or 3 different targets and very quickly rack up 6 consecutive attacks and get them to full power?

Suppose you roll into an enemy base. Rather than focus fire his nexus you instead hit his pylon, then nexus, then pylon, then nexus, then pylon, then nexus and leave your voids focused on the nexus at that point. If you did it fast enough you could very quickly ramp up their 45dps state. Or, if someone is attacking your base you could fire rapidly on your own buildings or immortals and then push your voids up and hit the attacking army.

Thoughts? Is this an old idea I'm just now discovering?
 

Morazl

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
1,147
From my experience, it's not consecutive attacks, simply time. Maybe 5-7 seconds on a target to charge to full. Switching between different targets doesn't decrease the time it takes for this to charge, otherwise you'd see a lot of dancing void rays in the field.
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
I feel kind of stupid. If I had just read down the page a little more carefully I would have seen the answer to my questions. Yes you can charge them up faster, and no I didn't discover this. A Canadian figured this out. Credit to FaZe.

Read up on it here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=134124

The first video seems to show that you can jump back and forth between targets and kill things faster.
 

PornoSatan

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Messages
3,493
I feel kind of stupid. If I had just read down the page a little more carefully I would have seen the answer to my questions. Yes you can charge them up faster, and no I didn't discover this. A Canadian figured this out. Credit to FaZe.

Read up on it here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=134124

The first video seems to show that you can jump back and forth between targets and kill things faster.

Yeah it's pretty dumb and insanely overpowered. I've had it used against me when I had a much larger number of viking, and have even seen it used against a larger number of void rays since the other guy didn't abuse this bug.
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
This is the new Starcraft 2 web site, it's also a beta but it seems to be working VERY well. I was looking through their style sheets and javascript, it's pretty impressively coded and usable.

http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/en/


Make sure you try logging in with your battle.net account, it's really cool!:D
 

petertew

Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
984
This is the new Starcraft 2 web site, it's also a beta but it seems to be working VERY well. I was looking through their style sheets and javascript, it's pretty impressively coded and usable.

http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/en/


Make sure you try logging in with your battle.net account, it's really cool!:D

That last line of your post makes me feel like you're phishing and that the whole site is a scam :).
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
That last line of your post makes me feel like you're phishing and that the whole site is a scam :).

LOLOLOL, I didn't want to ruin the surprise... Okay that sounds like I'm phishing too, but it lets you look through your friends list, achievements, and statistics just like the interface in-game. Also the new Forums are REALLY sexy. :D
 

Decko87

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
2,169
D: Don't know what this is about, I'd try it again later. The site is missing the E-sports and guide page, but I'm pretty excited about it.
 
Last edited:

GriMReapeRAK

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
306
Well damn, pre-loading for a digital download for SC2 has started. If you're planning to buy a retail copy (regular or CE boxed copy) then the digital download won't work for you unless you buy the digital copy as well. Oh well, I've got to wait for the free 3-day shipping anyway. I probably won't get to play until the 30th.
 
Top