Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

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I'm assuming it is the engine they're using, but the movement is so clunky when on foot. It just doesn't feel right.

It doesn't help that the performance is abysmal for graphics that are already starting to be dated.
 

DWolvin

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That's just their game design - the engine is CryEngine. Should have no issue with on foot / first person stuff.
 

FighterAce124

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Eh, things keep getting better, and parts of the game are very impressive. I just don't know that it's going to be a game I want to play. They keep going more and more 'Sim', and I don't need another job.

It will over time become more complex and "sim" like, as that is the entire vision CR has behind it.
Only way it will get simplified is if CR is removed and someone else comes in to develop it.... which is not likely, as ts funded quite well.

The past two years the game has gone from completely pointlessly unplayable 70% of the time and barely tolerable the remainder, to Immensely enjoyable 20%, enjoyably playable 60%, terribly crippled and barely functioning 10%, and broken at its core the remainder. When I look at what has happened in the last two major patches, I realize just how much faster and better development is becoming on it, as well as the increase in features and world work that has been done.

Just boosting server cap to 100-120 most of the time has made operations with my org so much more fun that its not even funny. Our ops used to fill a server with just us, which takes some fun out of stuff, but now we can put a couple squadrons in and still have 50-70 random people on the server to interact with, which is a lot of fun especially with PvP - and stage full on "fleet" battles with just org members now, fully crewing several large ships and dozen fights for each side, instead of one large crewed ship and few fighters per side due to population limits.

I still dont know if the game will ever actually be "released", or SQ42, but Ill keep throwing money at it if only to piss people in this thread off more. I get plenty of enjoyment out of it these days, it gets better as time goes on, and I dont regret a penny spent.
 

DWolvin

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Yeah, I'm only in it for about a hundred, and have gotten enough enjoyable time out of it that I don't feel the least bit cheated. But I'm not buying any more stuff until SQ42.
 

Flogger23m

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It will over time become more complex and "sim" like, as that is the entire vision CR has behind it.

I think what he means is that he doesn't mind complex ship controls and management. What a lot of people don't like is managing when you eat, poop, spending 15 minutes running around a space station to get to your ship, paying hospital bills, paying fees to get cargo loaded onto your ship and a host of other boring chores. I know a lot of the Star Citizen base probably enjoys that, but I also think a lot of people who backed this originally just wanted good mission/task design and good ship controls. I can't really see someone wanting to spend hours of game time driving a forklift around.
 

Dan_D

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I can't really see someone wanting to spend hours of game time driving a forklift around.
They don't understand they are supposed to be creating a game. Instead, Star Citizen is being created as a full on space life sim so that you could be some vendor doing some utterly mindless job or whatever else you can think of. The scope is too wide and the game will never come out being built to do everything and be the best looking game ever on release. It's already looking dated, so it will get another graphics revamp before long. It's ridiculous.
 

vegeta535

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They don't understand they are supposed to be creating a game. Instead, Star Citizen is being created as a full on space life sim so that you could be some vendor doing some utterly mindless job or whatever else you can think of. The scope is too wide and the game will never come out being built to do everything and be the best looking game ever on release. It's already looking dated, so it will get another graphics revamp before long. It's ridiculous.
download.jpeg

How else do you keep the hookers and blow train going?
 

lopoetve

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They don't understand they are supposed to be creating a game. Instead, Star Citizen is being created as a full on space life sim so that you could be some vendor doing some utterly mindless job or whatever else you can think of. The scope is too wide and the game will never come out being built to do everything and be the best looking game ever on release. It's already looking dated, so it will get another graphics revamp before long. It's ridiculous.
Yeah. One of the issues Chris Roberts has is that he doesn't quite understand that some things aren't ~fun~. Loading cargo by hand? How is that different than, say, loading up the truck to go to the lake for a weekend? Hint: it ain't, and loading up the truck is NOT the fun part of the weekend. Eating and drinking regularly, while having to take off a helmet you might forget to put back on? Not fun. Cleaning out a bunker by carrying, one by one, suits of armor and other stuff to a ship? Not actually fun.

Bounties? Fun
Mining? oddly fun.
Cargo hauling? Fun. Oddly so again, but fun.
Bunkers? Kinda fun (not quite my style of FPS gameplay, but it's fun).
Moving people? Hilarious.
PVP? Oddly entertaining.

It's a game, not a job- I don't want to actually carry cargo around by hand. Now you got a mission where I have to haul some boxes somewhere? Sure, I'll load up the mule and haul them there. But doing that for EVERY SINGLE BOX on a large cargo hauler? Eh.... no. Thanks.

I'm hoping the balance resets there.
 

lopoetve

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View attachment 514186
How else do you keep the hookers and blow train going?
Now this is another thing I agree with. Right now they make money by selling ships/etc. It's a money train. Once released, that train ends, or you're just feeding whales.

But...

But...

It's been so long now, and there are SO many whales... Have we already fundamentally unbalanced the game?
 

MavericK

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Has there been any appreciable progress on SQ42? I get the emails but I usually just ignore them now because they tended to be a bunch of fluff.
 

Aireoth

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Now this is another thing I agree with. Right now they make money by selling ships/etc. It's a money train. Once released, that train ends, or you're just feeding whales.

But...

But...

It's been so long now, and there are SO many whales... Have we already fundamentally unbalanced the game?

I'm putting my money all on Yes, the 'game' if it ever releases will be one of the worst examples of balance and pay2win everseen outside of the mobile market.

On top of that, it will be technically and graphically dated by the time it does come out.
 

grifter_66

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Has there been any appreciable progress on SQ42? I get the emails but I usually just ignore them now because they tended to be a bunch of fluff.
Yeah, I can't bring my self to unsubscribe from them "just in case" but generally I just read the header and then delete them.
As much as I now hate Roberts, this project and everything it stands for there's still just a little bit of hope left in me. The Wing Commander games had such a big impact on me when I was a kid and I had so much fun with them I just can't seem to kill that last bit of hope that one day I'll be able to enjoy another "Wing Commander" game before I die. That being said, I gave my $60 or whatever to them the first day the project went live and Roberts will never get another dime from me until I receive a complete, fully functioning and fun game.
 

Flogger23m

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Yeah. One of the issues Chris Roberts has is that he doesn't quite understand that some things aren't ~fun~. Loading cargo by hand? How is that different than, say, loading up the truck to go to the lake for a weekend? Hint: it ain't, and loading up the truck is NOT the fun part of the weekend. Eating and drinking regularly, while having to take off a helmet you might forget to put back on? Not fun. Cleaning out a bunker by carrying, one by one, suits of armor and other stuff to a ship? Not actually fun.

Exactly. However as Dan_D put it, I suppose they are going to a "space life" simulator. Which may have some appeal to some people. But realistically most people in space won't be around combat ships and won't be flying any ships but rather riding around occasionally on a space bus, so even then it isn't a realistic "space life" simulator.
 

kamxam

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A "Life Space Sim" So it will take a life to get finished. ;)
I still have my original $35 ship, but not going to do more than that.
 

FighterAce124

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They don't understand they are supposed to be creating a game. Instead, Star Citizen is being created as a full on space life sim so that you could be some vendor doing some utterly mindless job or whatever else you can think of. The scope is too wide and the game will never come out being built to do everything and be the best looking game ever on release. It's already looking dated, so it will get another graphics revamp before long. It's ridiculous.

No, they understand precisely what they are making - two completely separate products from a player/user standpoint - a traditional game, and a life sim. Its not their fault people dont do a little modicum of research in the differences intended between the two and hop into SC thinking it going to be the same experience as SQ42 will be.
"Death of a Spaceman" alone should clue people in to the massive differences in design and functionality of SC vs SQ42 and their core design and intended usage.

A traditional game would be SQ42.... if it ever gets released.
A life sim is Star Citizen. And it will continue to get more life sim-y
The two are completely different designs and purposes. SQ42 is not Star Citizen, and Star Citizen is no SQ42.
 

FearTheCow

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No, they understand precisely what they are making - two completely separate products from a player/user standpoint - a traditional game, and a life sim. Its not their fault people dont do a little modicum of research in the differences intended between the two and hop into SC thinking it going to be the same experience as SQ42 will be.
"Death of a Spaceman" alone should clue people in to the massive differences in design and functionality of SC vs SQ42 and their core design and intended usage.

A traditional game would be SQ42.... if it ever gets released.
A life sim is Star Citizen. And it will continue to get more life sim-y
The two are completely different designs and purposes. SQ42 is not Star Citizen, and Star Citizen is no SQ42.
They understand it so well that they have nothing to show for SQ42.
 

Flogger23m

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No, they understand precisely what they are making - two completely separate products from a player/user standpoint - a traditional game, and a life sim. Its not their fault people dont do a little modicum of research in the differences intended between the two and hop into SC thinking it going to be the same experience as SQ42 will be.
"Death of a Spaceman" alone should clue people in to the massive differences in design and functionality of SC vs SQ42 and their core design and intended usage.

A traditional game would be SQ42.... if it ever gets released.
A life sim is Star Citizen. And it will continue to get more life sim-y
The two are completely different designs and purposes. SQ42 is not Star Citizen, and Star Citizen is no SQ42.

They're not exactly two separate products. They have been pushing Squadron 42 back for years because they want commonality between the two games, and they will obviously share systems and functions. Because they have never finished the core systems Squadron 42 is still not out. We have yet to see mission design and narrative design of Squadron 42 as well. I feel like the story will end up like the two most recent Assassin's Creed games. Long, excessively drawn out, little to zero emotional impact, an inherently unintelligent story, but with dozens upon dozens of dialogue scenes and characters that are forgettable thoroughly bland.
 

blade52x

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Cloud Imperium Games Glassdoor rating: 3.2 (which is pretty bad for a software company - I personally would not consider anything under a 4)

Seems like they have a high turnover rate which could explain why SC has been taking so long. It probably takes at least 6 months for a competent engineer to become comfortable with whatever mess of code they have. And if they're only sticking around for a year or even two at the most, that is certainly going to slow progress down. CR probably had some kind of God complex towards his employees, "you should be happy you're being a part of something so great" - etc. Didn't pay them enough. Worked too many hours. Etc. This is what you get.
 

sharknice

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Cloud Imperium Games Glassdoor rating: 3.2 (which is pretty bad for a software company - I personally would not consider anything under a 4)

Seems like they have a high turnover rate which could explain why SC has been taking so long. It probably takes at least 6 months for a competent engineer to become comfortable with whatever mess of code they have. And if they're only sticking around for a year or even two at the most, that is certainly going to slow progress down. CR probably had some kind of God complex towards his employees, "you should be happy you're being a part of something so great" - etc. Didn't pay them enough. Worked too many hours. Etc. This is what you get.

This isn't the only issue, but I think a huge mistake they made was going with Cryengine. Crytek made a deal with them they couldn't resist and it ended up backfiring for both companies. There were even major legal issues because of it.

Cryengine is capable of great looking graphics, but it has always been absolute garbage for scaling and performance. It was a terrible choice from a technical perspective and I'm sure it's been holding them back a lot. That likely contributes to it not being a great place to work because of that technical mess, and very few people with experience using Cryengine compared to something like Unity or Unreal Engine. So new workers are dealing with a harder time getting up to speed and being able to do anything and then when they do finally get up to speed everything is harder to do.
 
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Someone that has programming knowledge, how big of a transition would it be if they just switched to the Unreal engine at this point?

Hypothetically that is.
 

DWolvin

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There are also some cool helmets that you can find in outpost boxes- My understanding is that you will keep one forever (account locked / stays through wipe).
 

gamerk2

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Someone that has programming knowledge, how big of a transition would it be if they just switched to the Unreal engine at this point?

Hypothetically that is.
Well, you can toss every single art asset in the garbage bin for starters. Probably most of your scripting logic too.

So yeah, you're basically starting over from scratch if you do that. But hey, at least we'll be able to make even more comparisons to Duke Nukem Forever.

Also, I recall some of us making these criticisms of engine choice when it was first announced; wasn't that hard to see the issues that would result in hindsight. (Really no different then the issues EA's had trying to fit Frostbite into everything they release...)
 

gamerk2

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Also BTW, I *still* haven't heard a good explanation for how SC is going to handle thousands (plus) of users in a single location any better then EVE Online does, at least that doesn't involve a lot of hand waving. I'd argue the core fundamental principle behind SC isn't even *technically* achievable.
 

relapse808

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Also BTW, I *still* haven't heard a good explanation for how SC is going to handle thousands (plus) of users in a single location any better then EVE Online does, at least that doesn't involve a lot of hand waving. I'd argue the core fundamental principle behind SC isn't even *technically* achievable.
They have stated it "should" have server meshing to do this. Also probably should have been released 6 years ago. In other words it will never happen.
 

gamerk2

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They have stated it "should" have server meshing to do this. Also probably should have been released 6 years ago. In other words it will never happen.
Server Meshing was done by EVE, and EVE has shown while it helps, it still breaks down past a few hundred people at a time. Simply saying "Server Meshing" isn't a solution, it's a hope, a prayer, nothing more. It's actually worse in SCs case since EVE is much more simplistic (in terms of player control/movement), so any delay is unacceptable.

So I question SCs whole premise, and declare it unworkable.
 

Vega

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Yikes, just installed this after a few years away on my new OC'd 7950X system and it still runs like total shit. And the graphics are from like 2014, even on max. How are people still throwing money at this, runs and feels like an Indie game in alpha.
 
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