Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

FearTheCow

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Yes it should be but the first 5 years cig where building the studio and creating poc stuff for sc.

Once they build something they realise they needed to redo the game engine and build new core techs.

I've read that thread and it's outdated because over the past 6 to 8 months they have addressed many tech debt bugs

Tyrer the lead game feature team said they are going to only add stuff in sc that's more complete and serves a purpose rather than just bringing it in for the sake of it.

3.15 comes with a ton of features BTW. There biggest update probably since 3.0

But expect lots of bugs to be introduced and some outstanding ones fixed (it's coming with icach)
Chris Roberts said SQ42 and SC would be finished within those first 5 years, he never once said it would take 5 years before development would begin. He actually said development had already started, just like he said he had played through SQ42 completely and it was months away from release... in 2016.
 

jonneymendoza

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Chris Roberts said SQ42 and SC would be finished within those first 5 years, he never once said it would take 5 years before development would begin. He actually said development had already started, just like he said he had played through SQ42 completely and it was months away from release... in 2016.
Development started 2012 ish and even then it was first developed by a third party who did a bad job.

I'll try and find a great video explaining the history of star citizen and cig by space tomato and you will come to realise that the current iteration of development started post 2016/2017.

They made some bad decisions early on. But they seem to be on track now.

I truly believe that if they can get server meshing working, this game will take off
 

jonneymendoza

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Chris Roberts said SQ42 and SC would be finished within those first 5 years, he never once said it would take 5 years before development would begin. He actually said development had already started, just like he said he had played through SQ42 completely and it was months away from release... in 2016.
Here is the video
 

FearTheCow

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Development started 2012 ish and even then it was first developed by a third party who did a bad job.

I'll try and find a great video explaining the history of star citizen and cig by space tomato and you will come to realise that the current iteration of development started post 2016/2017.

They made some bad decisions early on. But they seem to be on track now.

I truly believe that if they can get server meshing working, this game will take off
Server meshing was supposed to be don't 5+ years ago too BTW.

I am not watching a video by that shill, the fact that the video, and you are stating that development only really started 5 years ago is astonishing.
 

jonneymendoza

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Server meshing was supposed to be don't 5+ years ago too BTW.

I am not watching a video by that shill, the fact that the video, and you are stating that development only really started 5 years ago is astonishing.
No it wasn't.

Watch the video
 

lopoetve

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Watch the video above and then reply back
That’s poor management and project planning. Don’t suck at your job?

That’s why many of us keep saying that Chris Robert’s is not a project planner or manager, nor a good executive. He’s an idea guy. Someone either has to push him to finish or make him finish, or take it away and finish it.
 

jonneymendoza

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Again, watch the video to educate yourself about the history of the game as clearly some here are clueless.
 

Aireoth

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I've been here since before this started, don't recall anything about a 3rd party dev, but clearly recall it was advertised that this was and is a Chris Roberts project, not something farmed out.

The koolaid is stronk.
 

Eulogy

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It really doesn't matter if it was 3rd party devs or not. Dev started, and, it's still on going. Most companies, especially software dev studios, aren't retaining much staff for 10+ years at this point. People picking up projects now aren't the same folks who started them.
So, all in all, it's been in dev for 10+ years. Doesn't matter who, how, or anything. What matters is they made obviously really, stupendously poor decisions along the way. Many of them. They lack direction and drive.
What also matters is that after 10+ years, it's still, at best, a tech demo that is more broken than not. Some of the "bugs" they have were solved long ago by many other companies and there is zero need to reinvent the wheel. But, they are anyway. Arrogance rarely works out well in this industry.

You can ABSOLUTELY bug fix and add new features in at the same time. Fixing bugs now does not take away from future bugs. In fact, you end up with exponentially less tech debt because of it - especially if the bug turns out to be a huge architectural issue (which I suspect some are). This has a cascading effect, and, their unwillingness to even acknowledge them, let alone fix them, is problematic at the very least.
 

lopoetve

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Again, watch the video to educate yourself about the history of the game as clearly some here are clueless.
The video even calls out mismanagement in the first MINUTE. That's the point we're making - these guys might have great ideas, or great plans, but they are insanely bad at executing - and that's been Chris' history for his career. He needs a really good executive and project / product management team to pull this together, prevent feature creep before its ready, set sane deadlines and targets, and execute on them - then sell weird shit and ships to keep it growing.

I like the game. I enjoy playing it. I roll my eyes at the bugs. But what I see is a software engineering project that has no product leadership, only idea leadership. They're fundamentally different things - Chris can get everything he wants - EVERYTHING - with good product management. But it'll be cleaner and probably faster, since they won't be jumping after squirrels and laser pointers.

The video hopes - doesn't project, but hopes - that they won't repeat phase two, but he has no evidence of that.
 

jonneymendoza

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The video even calls out mismanagement in the first MINUTE. That's the point we're making - these guys might have great ideas, or great plans, but they are insanely bad at executing - and that's been Chris' history for his career. He needs a really good executive and project / product management team to pull this together, prevent feature creep before its ready, set sane deadlines and targets, and execute on them - then sell weird shit and ships to keep it growing.

I like the game. I enjoy playing it. I roll my eyes at the bugs. But what I see is a software engineering project that has no product leadership, only idea leadership. They're fundamentally different things - Chris can get everything he wants - EVERYTHING - with good product management. But it'll be cleaner and probably faster, since they won't be jumping after squirrels and laser pointers.

The video hopes - doesn't project, but hopes - that they won't repeat phase two, but he has no evidence of that.
I never ever disagreed that things where not mis-managed did i?

infact i even said they had a rocky start and pleaded with you and others who were very clueless with the history of this game to go and watch that video.

Yet you and many assumed everything was fine and there was no such thing as a "reset" as i blatenely told you and others then had done back in 2017 ish.

My point is the game you and some here enjoy(when it works) is what they have been building on since 2017 ish and everything seems better managed now with a clear goal on what is needed to do to make this game a reality.

All they need to nail now is server meshing(both static and dynamc) . Once they do that, its plain saling. They dont have no problem building ships, planets, star systems, missions, fps items etc etc. The MAIN hurdle is the server meshing and judging by the dozens of monthly reports, they seem to have a plan on how to get it to work.
 

FearTheCow

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There has been a "main hurdle" keeping a supposed flood of new content from being released for the last 6 years.

Content which should, and would, be released if it existed since server meshing is for player capacity.
 

jonneymendoza

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There has been a "main hurdle" keeping a supposed flood of new content from being released for the last 6 years.

Content which should, and would, be released if it existed since server meshing is for player capacity.
Server meshing Is not just for player count.but for working ai.less stress on the server and being able to persist and track everything on the game across different shard's.

Icach was another core tech needed
 

peppergomez

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SQ42 is coming along nicely and once they get the core techs in place, its plain sailing really.

It would be the biggest useless scam ever by CR if he diddnt deliver and release this.

I would also not prey for the downfall of this project if i was you unless you are very evil as a person and dont care about the 700 people that would go jobless if this game got canned.
If they are knowingly inte
Development started 2012 ish and even then it was first developed by a third party who did a bad job.

I'll try and find a great video explaining the history of star citizen and cig by space tomato and you will come to realise that the current iteration of development started post 2016/2017.

They made some bad decisions early on. But they seem to be on track now.

I truly believe that if they can get server meshing working, this game will take off
Ha ha ha. And if you believe that, I have a bridge in New Jersey to sell you.
 

Eulogy

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Yet you and many assumed everything was fine and there was no such thing as a "reset" as i blatenely told you and others then had done back in 2017 ish.

You keep sayiing this, but it is not supporting your stance. In fact it is supporting everyone else's. If you F up so badly that you need to "reset", that's pretty bad and still doesn't mean you get to say "Oh it's only been in dev 4 years". It hasn't, it's bee 11. They collected a TON of money from a lot of people with a lot of broken promises..

And again, "Server Meshing" has been solved many, many, many times over. We've only been doing that since the late 90s (look up Ultima Online, the smart and actually capable folks there basically invented it in like 1995). It's not a valid excuse - to me, it shows much more incompetence than anything.
 

jonneymendoza

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You keep sayiing this, but it is not supporting your stance. In fact it is supporting everyone else's. If you F up so badly that you need to "reset", that's pretty bad. And again, "Server Meshing" has been solved many, many, many times over. We've only been doing that since the late 90s. It's not a valid excuse - to me, it shows much more incompetence than anything.
It is supporting my stance as you seem confused in thinking I am saying cig did no wrong.

I said they had a rocky start and now seem to be in much better place
 

Eulogy

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It is supporting my stance as you seem confused in thinking I am saying cig did no wrong.

I said they had a rocky start and now seem to be in much better place
That's where we differ. They had a rocky start, and in a lot of ways, are in a worse spot now. I would not say they are in a "much better" place as of the current release.
 

jonneymendoza

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That's where we differ. They had a rocky start, and in a lot of ways, are in a worse spot now. I would not say they are in a "much better" place as of the current release.
They are in a better place now with clear goals and target and a viable product that when works, is one of the best games out at the moment.
 

Starfalcon

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Makes you wonder if our guy here is actually Chris Roberts, as all he does is say how great the game is and no one can say anything bad about it. They have taken untold millions of dollars and have a barely functional mess, loosely called a game, yet it is the best game ever. This is the same problems times 10000 that he has had on every game he worked on, Great ideas but poor workflow and failure to contain creep. Always adding new ideas, and never finishing previous ideas....
 

Starfalcon

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I'm in for like $70 total lol. I dipped my toes in and decided I'd wait before buying anything else related to this game. Dodged a bullet, big time.

Yeah too bad more people werent like you, CR is harpooning those sunk cost whales. Too many people just keep throwing money at this mess in hopes a game comes out the other side in a few decades.
 

lopoetve

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I never ever disagreed that things where not mis-managed did i?

infact i even said they had a rocky start and pleaded with you and others who were very clueless with the history of this game to go and watch that video.

Yet you and many assumed everything was fine and there was no such thing as a "reset" as i blatenely told you and others then had done back in 2017 ish.

My point is the game you and some here enjoy(when it works) is what they have been building on since 2017 ish and everything seems better managed now with a clear goal on what is needed to do to make this game a reality.

All they need to nail now is server meshing(both static and dynamc) . Once they do that, its plain saling. They dont have no problem building ships, planets, star systems, missions, fps items etc etc. The MAIN hurdle is the server meshing and judging by the dozens of monthly reports, they seem to have a plan on how to get it to work.
Oh I knew there was a reset. So why didn't they bring in real management? If you don't want to repeat a mistake, you bring in people that know what the hell they're doing from a project and product perspective. I have zero faith in server meshing - I see 30ks increasing to every hour or two at best, because of how unstable the technology and engine is - and meshing is only going to make it worse (see below).

As for no problem building ships / etc - spawn bugs, clone bugs, MFD bugs, suicide bugs (clip into the prospector seat on landing?), broken doors, scanners being broken, ballerina dancing talis... yeah, they got problems there too. Missions are bugged too, outside of bounties. NPCs are bugged to hell and back. Etc. Nothing is polished - so why believe that server meshing will be? At some point here, my prediction is simple - a conservator/etc will be brought in, either via class-action suit or via PE ownership, and then they'll fire chris roberts. They'll appoint someone that knows how to do the job, and finish it - and without Roberts' influence, it won't be as good. So I'm REALLY hoping that he hires that person before then, so it actually gets done with HIS influence, and we don't get a lesser product as a result.

Look, they can't even fix the floor in New Deal in Lorville - and you think they can mesh servers?


Server meshing Is not just for player count.but for working ai.less stress on the server and being able to persist and track everything on the game across different shard's.

Icach was another core tech needed
If you think coordinating between multiple servers is easier than one server, I'm not entirely sure how to start. What are they going to do when the server for Hurston or Crusader dies? Everyone there gets punted? You log off at a certain distance from the planet? They can't get it ~stable~ - why try meshing them right now? Even if that's the right long-term strategy, multiple weak systems tied together generally increases failure chances rather than reducing them.
 

Bawjaws

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I still find it unbelievable that they are pulling in multiple millions of dollars in funding every month. $13m in May?

Quite literally unbelievable.

As an aside: can I also just say that the graph that they generate here is really poor from an informational point of view - they obviously must be generating the y-axis based on the maximum and minimum month's funding over the last six months, which is fine for those two values, but it makes all of the other numbers basically unreadable. Why not scale the y-axis to the next highest/lowest $1m instead and then it might make the rest of the numbers a bit more legible? Apologies for this incredibly boring chat.

1631533291707.png
 

Starfalcon

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Yeah it is pretty amazing that they keep pulling in so much money with so little effort , although who knows how fudged the numbers really are.... Even the most die hard fans arent going to throw endless money at a game forever, eventually you hapoon all your whales and the funding ends.
 

FearTheCow

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Sadly, I can believe the continued funding, there are hardcore backers who actually believe a game will be released one day. A game which the dardcore backers believes will let them do whatever they want.

These backers are easy to spot as they call SC the best game ever (when it works!), or talk about how there is just one more major hurdle keeping a flood of new content from being released!

That's not to say some people don't enjoy trying to play the tech demo known as SC, but a tech demo is not a game.
 
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