Samsung Odyssey+

Thanks for the heads-up on the "fpsVR" app. Never head of it before.
I don't know for sure but have read that SteamVR defaults to 100% SuperSampling and it should be 140% to match the Vive Pro. Its default. 200% must be a very sweet image if ones hardware can manage it. I bought a top RTX2080 specifically for the task. I hope it hols up.
 
funkydmunky said:
Thanks for the heads-up on the "fpsVR" app. Never head of it before.
I don't know for sure but have read that SteamVR defaults to 100% SuperSampling and it should be 140% to match the Vive Pro. Its default. 200% must be a very sweet image if ones hardware can manage it. I bought a top RTX2080 specifically for the task. I hope it hols up.
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Yeah you're golden with a 2080. And I don't think the latest SteamVR beta actually defaults to a static 100% anymore, maybe it used to, but default is it auto-adjusts to your H/W configuration. That means if you have a weak GPU then SS can actually run *lower* than 100% (my GTX 1060 was driving Odyssey+ around 94%).

fpsVR is somewhat of a VR equivalent of having an Afterburner OSD in your headset (and on your PC monitor) - but way more detailed. Once you use it you realize you were flying blind without it. SInce it allows you to adjust both Global and per-app SS setting on the fly, the workflow is basically to load up your favorite VR app/game, and crank the SS as high as it will go and still maintain 90FPS (frametime/framerate graph stays green). Once the graph starts showing orange or red (indicating dropping frames) - you dial it back a notch or two. While SteamVR's auto-managed SS is probably decent, I prefer the manual approach just to make sure I'm getting the max SS my hardware allows -- since you only have to set it once globally and/or per app.
 
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odditory said:
fpsVR is somewhat of a VR equivalent of having an Afterburner OSD in your headset (and on your PC monitor) - but way more useful. Once you use it you realize you were flying blind without it. SInce it allows you to adjust both Global and per-app SS setting on the fly, the workflow is basically to load up your favorite VR app/game, and crank the SS as high as it will go and still maintain 90FPS (frametime/framerate graph stays green). Once the graph starts showing orange or red (indicating dropping frames) - you dial it back a notch or two. While SteamVR's auto-managed SS is probably decent, I prefer the manual approach just to make sure I'm getting the max SS my hardware allows -- since you only have to set it once globally and/or per app.
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Great info. Can't wait! I'm all about tweaking so it seems like fpsVR is an indispensable app for those wanting the best.
It seems bizarre to me how quiet these forums are with VR discussion.
 
funkydmunky said:
It seems bizarre to me how quiet these forums are with VR discussion.
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Yeah especially considering Kyle is such a VR fan. This forum has its hotspots and cold spots, and with VR it seems like you have to go to Reddit (ugh) for more active discussion.
 
funkydmunky said:
Thanks for the heads-up on the "fpsVR" app. Never head of it before.
I don't know for sure but have read that SteamVR defaults to 100% SuperSampling and it should be 140% to match the Vive Pro. Its default. 200% must be a very sweet image if ones hardware can manage it. I bought a top RTX2080 specifically for the task. I hope it hols up.
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The default is not a fixed value, but rather calculated based on your hardware, including what headset you have.

For my Rift, SteamVR decided on 200% globally. For my Vive Pro, it defaulted to 146%. I found that leaving those alone, and dialing Elite Dangerous back to about 68% produced the best compromise between image quality and performance. For most games, the default seems to be pretty well selected, but ED is unique in that VR is tacked on to a normal monitor game, so you have to rethink your graphics options to get it to work right.
 
I just watched this YouTube video. In it the fellow says that if one is going to use rechargeables you need high voltage ones that match regular non-rechargeables. Apparently if using regular rechargeables (1.2v) it can drop the unit into 60Hz energy saving mode which can cause jittery tracking.
Anyone have any experience with this? Could this be the cause of some of the negative tracking issues that reviews mention?
 
funkydmunky said:
I just watched this YouTube video. In it the fellow says that if one is going to use rechargeables you need high voltage ones that match regular non-rechargeables. Apparently if using regular rechargeables (1.2v) it can drop the unit into 60Hz energy saving mode which can cause jittery tracking.
Anyone have any experience with this? Could this be the cause of some of the negative tracking issues that reviews mention?
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I have experience with this. He's not factually wrong, I don't think, but he's missing forest for the trees.

The problem with the tracking of the WMR controllers is not the polling rate, but rather that their position is computed using the headset's cameras alone, which face forward (mostly). Once you move them out of the field of view of the cameras (for instance, down at your sides) the system loses its ability to measure their position (but not orientation), and your game-world hands are left floating there in front of you, flopping around like fish out of water, while your real world hands grasp desperately at the pistol in your virtual holster. Maybe a better example is in Beat Saber, where you occasionally will see boxes that pass by you on your right and left at the same time, and you have to stick your arms way out to the sides to hit them. The WMR controllers cannot do this reliably.

This isn't a problem for cockpit games like Elite Dangerous or Project Cars, which don't use the hand controllers, but even in Microsoft's own "Cliff House" skeuomorphic desktop environment, which is the best such house-as-home screen implementation of the three major ones, it really makes it hard to use the controllers naturally, and you need the controllers to interact with it.
 
RazorWind said:
even in Microsoft's own "Cliff House" skeuomorphic desktop environment, which is the best such house-as-home screen implementation of the three major ones, it really makes it hard to use the controllers naturally, and you need the controllers to interact with it.
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Until you opt in to SteamVR beta and then the new house-as-home is pretty nice, and customizable, and the leaderboards on the right side showing most popular single and MP VR games is pretty cool. And Steam workshop has a bunch of really great additional ones. I'll agree though the WMR one has a certain smoothness to it.

On the battery issue, it really is weird -- put in a fresh pack of Duracell's and it gets reported as "60% battery left". I've seen on Reddit people mentioning needing the higher end rechargeables, I guess time to invest in some of those because I'm tired of going through AA's.
 
odditory said:
Until you opt in to SteamVR beta and then the new house-as-home is pretty nice, and customizable, and the leaderboards on the right side showing most popular single and MP VR games is pretty cool. And Steam workshop has a bunch of really great additional ones. I'll agree though the WMR one has a certain smoothness to it.

On the battery issue, it really is weird -- put in a fresh pack of Duracell's and it gets reported as "60% battery left". I've seen on Reddit people mentioning needing the higher end rechargeables, I guess time to invest in some of those because I'm tired of going through AA's.
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Say what? The one that's just an empty house with the leaderboard on the wall and a list of apps on another? Or do you mean there's a new version of it that's different? I'm opted in to the Steam beta; not sure if that includes SteamVR as well.

On my system, that thing crashes while loading about 80% of time, and takes both SteamVR and Steam itself with it. Once that happens, only a reboot could get the HMD working again. I seem to recall it worked with my Rift, but it was nowhere near as useful as the Cliff House, where you can open actual applications as objects an interact with them.
 
RazorWind said:
Say what? The one that's just an empty house with the leaderboard on the wall and a list of apps on another? Or do you mean there's a new version of it that's different? I'm opted in to the Steam beta; not sure if that includes SteamVR as well.

On my system, that thing crashes while loading about 80% of time, and takes both SteamVR and Steam itself with it. Once that happens, only a reboot could get the HMD working again. I seem to recall it worked with my Rift, but it was nowhere near as useful as the Cliff House, where you can open actual applications as objects an interact with them.
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Oh I guess we're talking about the same one. I thought you originally meant the truly awful pre-beta one that's just a room and kitchen with white furniture. Even the new one seems like they could've put a little more g.d. thought into it -- like first time you load in all it shows you is recent apps -- and you have no recent apps, and there's no obvious way to open an existing app.

I'll agree then the WMR is better. But that's about all that's better about WMR since Microsoft isn't bothering doing any original content (that I'm aware of).
 
odditory said:
Oh I guess we're talking about the same one. I thought you originally meant the truly awful pre-beta one that's just a room and kitchen with white furniture. Even the new one seems like they could've put a little more g.d. thought into it -- like first time you load in all it shows you is recent apps -- and you have no recent apps, and there's no obvious way to open an existing app.

I'll agree then the WMR is better. But that's about all that's better about WMR since Microsoft isn't bothering doing any original content (that I'm aware of).
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I'm pretty sure they have at least a couple of games they're working on. There was a Halo game represented in the Cliff House as I recall, which may have been a demo or a trailer, and there are a couple of other things too, like some extra episodes of TheBlu, a drawing app and so forth.

The best part I found was that you could open up Edge and browse the web using the handy-twiddles in lieu of the mouse. It also has a video viewer thing, where you can play movies on a virtual "screen" in the house.

In terms of utility, Oculus and Valve themselves have nothing on this. Oculus has some little toys you can play with in theirs, and customize your avatar, but Valve's has basically nothing you can do with it that the Big Picture VR analog thing (which also works poorly) doesn't do better, as far as I can tell.
 
RazorWind said:
I have experience with this. He's not factually wrong, I don't think, but he's missing forest for the trees.

The problem with the tracking of the WMR controllers is not the polling rate, but rather that their position is computed using the headset's cameras alone, which face forward (mostly). Once you move them out of the field of view of the cameras (for instance, down at your sides) the system loses its ability to measure their position (but not orientation), and your game-world hands are left floating there in front of you, flopping around like fish out of water, while your real world hands grasp desperately at the pistol in your virtual holster. Maybe a better example is in Beat Saber, where you occasionally will see boxes that pass by you on your right and left at the same time, and you have to stick your arms way out to the sides to hit them. The WMR controllers cannot do this reliably.
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That reviewer is quite experienced with that particular element of the Odyssey. He isn't new to the controllers and their limitations. He states when using 1.2v standard rechargeables that there is a definite difference then using off the shelf alkaline 1.5v or high voltage Ni-Zin rechargeables. Stuttering and such.
Has anyone noticed a difference between standard batteries and regular 1.2v rechargeable?
 
As I said, I don't think he's factually wrong; I would take his word for it. I didn't use the one I had enough to wear out the batteries it comes with, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. Xbox One controllers are pretty picky about it too. I have one that complains about freshly charged NiMH batteries.

Furthermore, most AA devices call for 1.5 volt batteries. It's not unreasonable to assume you'd get poor performance if you deviated from this.
 
In practice, the WMR setup on the Odyssey+ works fine. I have an Oculus Rift with touch to compare to, and that was initially my biggest concern, to the point I researched how difficult it'd be to use the touch controllers with the WMR headset (should be possible but it'd require having both the rift and WMR headset plugged in together and you'd better have a good usb controller). After playing with the Odyssey+ for a few weeks, I abondoned the idea as they work very well - even in games like Onward that require good hand tracking for gun aiming, and require reaching around on your body and behind your back to grab stuff. Provided you do those moves quickly (which you'd do anyway), it works fine, and when they're in the field of view of the cameras the tracking is spot on.

The only issue I've had is when lying on the ground, the carpet in my room messes with the WMR tracking so it completely loses tracking occasionally until I get back up off the ground. This has only been an issue in certain levels of Onward where you might want to lie in the trees while doing PvP gaming. It'd be solvable by putting an area rug in the room as from what I've read, it's the pile carpeting that WMR doesn't like. The main benefit of the touch controllers is the ergonomics - they fit the hand better and the light rings don't get in the way which on WMR occasionally I bump the light ring into the headset. I think this happened in like one game and didn't prevent doing anything, just broke immersion for a second.

As to batteries, I use rechargeable Energizers and they work fine, no issues.
 
Does anyone know how to make WMR not run at boot with this thing? It's not a startup item, so Windows isn't doing it, rather the headset is. I've resorted to unplugging it every time I'm done using it.
 
I seem to recall there's a setting for that somewhere in the non-vr part of the UI.
 
bobzdar said:
As to batteries, I use rechargeable Energizers and they work fine, no issues.
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I'll give my rechargeables a try and see now that I am familiar with how it performs with regulars . I can't believe how fast these controllers roast through batteries.
 
bobzdar said:
As to batteries, I use rechargeable Energizers and they work fine, no issues.
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I got the 2300mah ones and they worked ok at first, but something happened cuz now I'll put four fully charged batteries in the controllers and they will last about 10 minutes before "low battery, haptics disabled." This happened a couple of consecutive times before I gave up and bought an 8-pack of regular AAs.
 
SuperSubZero said:
I got the 2300mah ones and they worked ok at first, but something happened cuz now I'll put four fully charged batteries in the controllers and they will last about 10 minutes before "low battery, haptics disabled." This happened a couple of consecutive times before I gave up and bought an 8-pack of regular AAs.
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Odd, mine last hours. They're nothing special afaik, I have around a dozen of them (2 kids, so it's a lot easier to run rechargeable in everything), including some that are like 5 years old and don't work in the speed charger anymore. None of them seem to have an issue, maybe you got a bad battery?
 
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