Ryzen 9 re-pricing?

Whach

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Now that Intel has released its new stuff, what do you guys think, if at all, Ryzen prices should be adjusted to reflect the new competitors? I have a 5900x on hand that I paid $499.99 (550 with tax) from Amazon in August that I'm building a system around. I've already seen the 5600x and 5800x slashed, so I would say the 5900x to eventualy drop to around $400-450?

From what I can tell, the 12700k is the direct Alder Lake competitor that I've seen go for $399.99 (so around $450 with tax) at my local Microcenter. Isn't competition wonderful? Moar cores and performance than we know what to do with =)
 

dvsman

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Once we get closer to the Ryzen 6xxx release I'm sure the price will dip but until then, I think they will just stick it out and rely on the fact that 12xxx related parts are still either pricey or hard to find or both. Also people in the AMD ecosystem are likely to just stick with it.
 
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pitingres

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It's not at all clear that there are lots of Ryzen 9 parts lying around in the distribution channels hoping to be sold. I suspect that AMD will hold pricing, perhaps with a minor adjustment for appearance's sake, until it becomes apparent that sales are sagging. As long as they are selling everything they can make, there's no reason to adjust prices.
 

Whach

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It's not at all clear that there are lots of Ryzen 9 parts lying around in the distribution channels hoping to be sold. I suspect that AMD will hold pricing, perhaps with a minor adjustment for appearance's sake, until it becomes apparent that sales are sagging. As long as they are selling everything they can make, there's no reason to adjust prices.
agreed. if they are still selling like hotcakes, why would they change anything?

I am curious as to what people think the price "should" be in regards to a performance comparison though. (ignoring other market variables such as the Pandemic/supply/distribution etc & "imagining" a perfect world where things are actually normal).
 

TheSlySyl

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I got my Ryzen 9 3900X for $416 in summer of 2020, that's about $35 per core - scaling that up to 16 cores would be about $560, now I know that these new cores are more powerful, etc, but I'd still love to pay less than $40 a core. I'll settle for $50 a core if I need too, but I don't want to spend more than that.

What's crazy to me is that the 3900X still costs around $420.
 
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chameleoneel

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I got my Ryzen 9 3900X for $416 in summer of 2020, that's about $35 per core - scaling that up to 16 cores would be about $560, now I know that these new cores are more powerful, etc, but I'd still love to pay less than $40 a core. I'll settle for $50 a core if I need too, but I don't want to spend more than that.

What's crazy to me is that the 3900X still costs around $420.
12700k @ $420 (Best Buy) is exactly $35 per core ;)

12900Kf is $36.8
 

TheSlySyl

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12700k @ $420 (Best Buy) is exactly $35 per core ;)

12900Kf is $36.8
Yeah, but that requires a new, very expensive motherboard and new, very expensive RAM to be comparable. Not gonna happen.

The 6950X (5950VX, whatever) is gonna be a literal drop in replacement with my current hardware.

Not even gonna try to get into the performance/non performance core thing with the calculations.
 

chameleoneel

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DDR5 is actually proving to be a non-starter. Its mostly about the same in performance. Sometimes a bit worse. Sometimes a bit better.

The DDR4 Alder Lake motherboards aren't that bad in price and things only stand to get better, when B660 boards launch (hopefully) early next year.
 

TheSlySyl

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ND40oz

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chameleoneel

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Also, as someone who's machine spends an absolutely ridiculous amount of time doing h.265 encoding.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/14.html

The big.LITTLE core arrangement is not at all what I'm looking for.
At the absolute top of the stack, sure, the 5950x's 12 "big" cores do win out, here. But the 12900k is remarkably close, all things considered. And the 12700k beats a 5900x when using performance covered by warranty. I'm assuming the 5900x would close the gap and maybe even slightly win, with PBO. but its technically considered overclocking by AMD and not warrantied.

And you could undoubtedly do it even faster than any of them, using Nvidia's NVENC. My RTX 2060 spanks my CPUs at encoding.
 
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chameleoneel

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If you're doing h.265 encoding, get a 12700k, disabled the e cores and use AVX 512. That's a no brainer if that's what you're looking to do if you want to use Alder Lake to do it.
which encoding software supports AVX512?

I use Staxrip
 

ND40oz

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LukeTbk

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At the absolute top of the stack, sure, the 5950x's 12 "big" cores do win out, here. But the $12900k is remarkably close, all things considered. And the 12700k beats a 5900x when using performance covered by warranty. I'm assuming the 5900x would close the gap and maybe even slightly win, with PBO. but its technically considered overclocking by AMD and not warrantied.

And you could undoubtedly do it even faster than any of them, using Nvidia's NVENC. My RTX 2060 spanks my CPUs at encoding.
5950x has 16 core, the 12700k 12 core (8p-4e) are not that slower than the 5900x 12 big core here

Starxrip
https://tweakers.net/reviews/9472/a...ke-core-i9-12900k-i7-12700k-en-i5-12600k.html
staxrip.jpg


Seem to be quite faster on a 12900k than a 5950x (if I am not missing something obvious)
 

TheSlySyl

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And you could undoubtedly do it even faster than any of them, using Nvidia's NVENC. My RTX 2060 spanks my CPUs at encoding.
Yeah, NVENC is definitely faster, but it looks a hell of lot worse and when I'm encoding 4k HDR. If I wanted to encode on the fly, NVENC is fine, but i'm looking at reducing file sizes and keeping the absolute best picture quality possible.

Those Staxrip charts are really intriguing though, but I don't find myself digging through German review websites that often due to the fact that I do not speak the language. If it's actually better at x265 then i'll be intrigued.

Curious as to why the chart looks so incredibly different from the techpowerup one I linked above though and most other encoding charts i've seen.
 

chameleoneel

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Yeah, NVENC is definitely faster, but it looks a hell of lot worse and when I'm encoding 4k HDR. If I wanted to encode on the fly, NVENC is fine, but i'm looking at reducing file sizes and keeping the absolute best picture quality possible.

Those Staxrip charts are really intriguing though, but I don't find myself digging through German review websites that often due to the fact that I do not speak the language. If it's actually better at x265 then i'll be intrigued.

Curious as to why the chart looks so incredibly different from the techpowerup one I linked above though.
What bitrate are you using for your 4K encodes? Using staxrip (which exposes all of NVENC's quality features*) I've had a hard time beating NVENC's quality, unless I purposefully choke the bitrate. And even then, its not that big a delta.

*some of the features are not intuitive, however. The features for "B-frames as a reference", actually hurts image quality (I have done a lot of comparison, frame by frame). Its best to leave it off.

It would be fun to share a source video file and see what we can do with it, encoding wise.
 

LukeTbk

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Curious as to why the chart looks so incredibly different from the techpowerup one I linked above though and most other encoding charts i've seen.
The french have similar results has well.

Seem to be quite dependant on the encoder, vast swing can occur:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-12600k-12900k&num=5

More than 33% faster in some case, a 5800x in some. Looking at the numbers, someone that already has a x570.... not sure it is worth it, outside having one of the very workload with the giant difference.
 

Whach

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…..will be interesting to see how the v-cache zen3 stuff will effect things. Will probably be priced around $550 if performance > 12700K? Current 5900x’s down to $450 or less?

Zen 4 can’t come soon enough to stir things up even more! This competition is making me happy :)
 

Bankie

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agreed. if they are still selling like hotcakes, why would they change anything?

Are they selling like hotcakes though? Seems like the entire stack of the 5xxx series has been readily available for at least 6 months. My local Microcenter has stock of 25+ on just about every Ryzen CPU. They have a pretty decent deal on the 5800x ($330) but the rest seem to be priced too high.
 

TheSlySyl

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What bitrate are you using for your 4K encodes? Using staxrip (which exposes all of NVENC's quality features*) I've had a hard time beating NVENC's quality, unless I purposefully choke the bitrate. And even then, its not that big a delta.

*some of the features are not intuitive, however. The features for "B-frames as a reference", actually hurts image quality (I have done a lot of comparison, frame by frame). Its best to leave it off.

It would be fun to share a source video file and see what we can do with it, encoding wise.
I just use Staxrip .h265 "slower" and CRF at 18. I tweaked a ton of stuff around and found that these tend to work best for me and my content.

It is very important to note that i'm still running a GTX 1080Ti so my NVENC is quite a few years behind. Someday i'll get a 3000 (or better) series, but for now its too much effort.
 

Whach

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Are they selling like hotcakes though? Seems like the entire stack of the 5xxx series has been readily available for at least 6 months. My local Microcenter has stock of 25+ on just about every Ryzen CPU. They have a pretty decent deal on the 5800x ($330) but the rest seem to be priced too high.

They were selling when I grabbed my 5900x @ Amazon for $499 in August. I remember the 5800x being readily available wherever I looked. The 5900x/5950x was patchy and overpriced at best.

My micro center has the 5900x for the same price now. Must be due to a larger supply and because of newer incoming CPU’s.
 

TheSlySyl

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Nope and nope.
For the features I need, which are 8+ SATA ports, 3+ M.2 ports (preferably at 4th gen), and a whole smorgasbord of USB 3 and 3.2 ports, it's gonna be an expensive motherboard. Especially considering I already own the X570 motherboard that I'm pretty damn happy with.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162027
Is the cheapest z690 board with these features that also supports DDR4.
$250 extra makes any other benefit of a "cheaper" intel 12th gen not that appealing.

I also am having trouble finding any 12700k(f) reviews with DDR4 that make it look anywhere near as appealing as a 5950X.
 
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Bankie

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They were selling when I grabbed my 5900x @ Amazon for $499 in August. I remember the 5800x being readily available wherever I looked. The 5900x/5950x was patchy and overpriced at best.

My micro center has the 5900x for the same price now. Must be due to a larger supply and because of newer incoming CPU’s.
Yeah I was looking for a 5900x for a little while late last year/early this year while there was no supply but by the time they became easy to get around April/May I had heard about the 3D Cache CPUs and decided to wait.
 

Whach

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Yeah I was looking for a 5900x for a little while late last year/early this year while there was no supply but by the time they became easy to get around April/May I had heard about the 3D Cache CPUs and decided to wait.
I was thinking about doing that too. However, I decided to jump on it as I’m coming from a Skylake 6700k so anything would be a huge upgrade at that point!

To be honest, I was focused on getting a RTX 3080FE for most of the time, which fortunately happened :)
 

cjcox

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IMHO, the only thing so far worth looking at is the Alder Lake i5. It won't burn the house down and it's had excellent performance.

The i9 is a mixed bag, if you have a 5950x, you have nothing to worry about.

With that said, AMD has no reason to discount same.
 

chameleoneel

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For the features I need, which are 8+ SATA ports, 3+ M.2 ports (preferably at 4th gen), and a whole smorgasbord of USB 3 and 3.2 ports, it's gonna be an expensive motherboard. Especially considering I already own the X570 motherboard that I'm pretty damn happy with.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162027
Is the cheapest z690 board with these features that also supports DDR4.
$250 extra makes any other benefit of a "cheaper" intel 12th gen not that appealing.

I also am having trouble finding any 12700k(f) reviews with DDR4 that make it look anywhere near as appealing as a 5950X.
Sure, the 5950x is a different class of CPU than the 12700k. And its $330 more expensive.
 

Domingo

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I snagged a 5800x back when the rumor was that you'd never be able to find a 5900x and the 5950x was going for like $900. Wish I'd held out, but luckily very few things I do are really CPU dependent. Depending on where prices go, I might bite on another Ryzen 9 processor rather than a full board/system upgrade down the line.
 

Jinto

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Got a 5800x recently. Was planning on staying on my 3900x until the last update for AM4 but with the recent price drops the 5800x is a bit hard to refuse. May get a 5950XT down the road.
 

TheHig

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I still have 6 AM4 systems in use between two households so CPU swaps and GPUs when needed and they are good for a long while yet. However , The 12700k and a decent DDR4 board under 300 is what I would look at right now for anyone already on a DDR4 platform and feeling that upgrade itch. Microcenter , I know not everyone has access to one, has the 12700k at 399 with 20 off the board. Believe me the temptation to sell off some stuff to swap to that is starting to get to me... If nothing else to play with the new hotness and go Win 11 on it to get some experience with that.

I think there will be some adjustments to Ryzen 5000 pricing in the coming weeks /months for sure though which makes upgrading those existing AM4 systems more appealing.
 
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