RTX 4xxx / RX 7xxx speculation

noko

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they will definitely have 4090 retail availability this October. The rest will depend on what AMD shows I think.
AMD I would think will concentrate on Zen 4 launch over any GPU launch with the rapid deflation of video cards and the huge upcoming mining hardware sell off. Plus looks like AMD is pushing for Zen 4 Vcahe earlier than expected (probably based on if Intel can deliver Meteor Lake or not). Edit; Oops ment Raptor Lake.
 
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Wat

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Wouldn't Nvidia launch the 4080 first then tweak the 4090 based on Amd's top end card?

If they launch the 4090 first and amd can match it, that doesn't leave them any room to claim the crown
 

noko

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Wouldn't Nvidia launch the 4080 first then tweak the 4090 based on Amd's top end card?

If they launch the 4090 first and amd can match it, that doesn't leave them any room to claim the crown
Who knows? Even Nvidia maybe shuffling plans around, how much they know what AMD has or not and when. If they are in the dark, that could get highly interesting. Pure speculation for us and most likely would be wrong.

Lisa Sue has indicated top performance, premium level items, custom designs as focus. Which makes sense since AMD has limits on how many they can produce. So AMD I presume is going for the Gold Medal, #1 in CPU performance and GPU performance to get the premium price and profits with less inventory and volume. Shooting for the juggler at Intel and NVidia, actually just wanting the premium price for each price point.
 
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BassTek

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Wouldn't Nvidia launch the 4080 first then tweak the 4090 based on Amd's top end card?

If they launch the 4090 first and amd can match it, that doesn't leave them any room to claim the crown
The 4090 is on its own chip, and quite cut down. There is still room for a 4090 ti and a Titan or equivalent. Much more room than last gen with 3080, 3080 ti, 3090 and 3090 ti on the same chip.
 

noko

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The 4090 is on its own chip, and quite cut down. There is still room for a 4090 ti and a Titan or equivalent. Much more room than last gen with 3080, 3080 ti, 3090 and 3090 ti on the same chip.
And yet the 3080 much cut down A102 chip was within 10% performance of the 3090. If the rumored cuda core counts are correct, then the 4090 has around 12% less cuda cores. That with jacking up the power from 450w to 600w (feels like desperation on Nvidia's part), faster memory, may get how much better performance? 10%, 5%? The 4090 Ti may turn into a laughingstock.

What if the 7800 XT matches the 4090 and is cheaper while the 7900 XT beats it by 10-20%? 7950 XT Lisa Sue version 30%. Nvidia looses the crown so to speak. Just have to see what AMD and Nvidia both have. Those wanting the best, (maybe whom also look more at their video cards than games) may have to go to the Red team this round.
 

funkydmunky

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Wouldn't Nvidia launch the 4080 first then tweak the 4090 based on Amd's top end card?

If they launch the 4090 first and amd can match it, that doesn't leave them any room to claim the crown
4090 is slated to launch first and beat AMD to market. It will be the fastest card available and Nvidia will command a pretty $. Once AMD launches Nvidia will set prices on the rest of the stack accordingly.
If Nvidia looses the crown they will quickly announce a 4090ti with an even more insane power budget.
One can hope AMD wins the crown so Nvidia's high chip allocation will allow their high volume mainstream cards 60/70/80's to be priced well so they maintain mind share.
 

HockeyJon

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The 4090 is on its own chip, and quite cut down. There is still room for a 4090 ti and a Titan or equivalent. Much more room than last gen with 3080, 3080 ti, 3090 and 3090 ti on the same chip.

Don't forget the 4090 Ti Titan Special Edition.
 

Arkanian

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3090 ti MSI supreme is now 1499 msrp at newegg. So tempting! 4090 will probably be 400-500 more. The question is how much more powerful will this be. I have heard 40-60% better than a 3090 which means the 4090 probably will be 30-50% better than 3090 ti. Is that worth $500 is the question? I guess if someone is spending 1500 then they wouldn't have any issue spending 2000 to get a better card. I could also wait a month and get a evga 3090 ti and use their step up program if we think it is going to be out in Oct.
 

HockeyJon

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And yet the 3080 much cut down A102 chip was within 10% performance of the 3090. If the rumored cuda core counts are correct, then the 4090 has around 12% less cuda cores. That with jacking up the power from 450w to 600w (feels like desperation on Nvidia's part), faster memory, may get how much better performance? 10%, 5%? The 4090 Ti may turn into a laughingstock.

What if the 7800 XT matches the 4090 and is cheaper while the 7900 XT beats it by 10-20%? 7950 XT Lisa Sue version 30%. Nvidia looses the crown so to speak. Just have to see what AMD and Nvidia both have. Those wanting the best, (maybe whom also look more at their video cards than games) may have to go to the Red team this round.

Where are you seeing 12% less CUDA cores for the 4090? I've not seen that.
 

sk3tch

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3090 ti MSI supreme is now 1499 msrp at newegg. So tempting! 4090 will probably be 400-500 more. The question is how much more powerful will this be. I have heard 40-60% better than a 3090 which means the 4090 probably will be 30-50% better than 3090 ti. Is that worth $500 is the question? I guess if someone is spending 1500 then they wouldn't have any issue spending 2000 to get a better card. I could also wait a month and get a evga 3090 ti and use their step up program if we think it is going to be out in Oct.
I'd wait for lower!

Also - I owned a 3080 SUPRIM and was not super impressed with it. It is MASSIVE and didn't perform better than my EVGA FTW3 Ultra.

MicroCenter has had open box 3090 Ti for $12xx.

The 3090 is an even better buy right now as people are moving from 3090 to 3090 Ti for cheap and willing to part with their 3090 - look for steals in the $800 range there.

That Kopite guy recently said 70% gains from 3090 to 4090 - crazy.
 

RazorWind

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3090 ti MSI supreme is now 1499 msrp at newegg. So tempting! 4090 will probably be 400-500 more. The question is how much more powerful will this be. I have heard 40-60% better than a 3090 which means the 4090 probably will be 30-50% better than 3090 ti. Is that worth $500 is the question? I guess if someone is spending 1500 then they wouldn't have any issue spending 2000 to get a better card. I could also wait a month and get a evga 3090 ti and use their step up program if we think it is going to be out in Oct.
I'd be surprised if it's really 30 to 50 percent faster, but if you're the type that willingly spends $1500 on a graphics card, I would think another 500 for 50% more performance would be an obvious no-brainer.
 

Armenius

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I'd be surprised if it's really 30 to 50 percent faster, but if you're the type that willingly spends $1500 on a graphics card, I would think another 500 for 50% more performance would be an obvious no-brainer.
AD102 is twice as fast at Control in 4K resolution compared to the 3090 with ray tracing and DLSS (160+ FPS!). That performance comes at a cost of 800W, supposedly.
https://videocardz.com/newz/full-nv...ice-as-fast-as-rtx-3090-in-game-control-at-4k

4090 posts a Timespy Extreme score that is 82% higher than the 3090, 66% faster than 3090 Ti.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...n-rtx-3090-ti-in-3dmark-time-spy-extreme-test

Welp, I guess I am going to be upgrading if this is true.
Where are you seeing 12% less CUDA cores for the 4090? I've not seen that.
12% fewer compared to the full AD102 chip. The 4090 is rumored to have 16,384 cores while the AD102 has 18,432. Info in links above.
 

DooKey

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AD102 is twice as fast at Control in 4K resolution compared to the 3090 with ray tracing and DLSS (160+ FPS!). That performance comes at a cost of 800W, supposedly.
https://videocardz.com/newz/full-nv...ice-as-fast-as-rtx-3090-in-game-control-at-4k

4090 posts a Timespy Extreme score that is 82% higher than the 3090.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...n-rtx-3090-ti-in-3dmark-time-spy-extreme-test

Welp, I guess I am going to be upgrading if this is true.

12% fewer compared to the full AD102 chip. The 4090 is rumored to have 16,384 cores while the AD102 has 18,432. Info in links above.
I think I'm going to buy a 4090. The performance increase over my 3080 will be incredible.
 

BassTek

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I’ll probably go for the 4090 as well, would be good for VR and I have a couple 4K 120hz displays. I was going to do a new platform as well but I might just get a 5800x3D and live with AM4 another year or two.

If there is only a 12% shader difference between 4090 and Full AD102 then maybe they can only fit one card above the 4090 and possibly a 4080 ti below it.
 

RazorWind

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AD102 is twice as fast at Control in 4K resolution compared to the 3090 with ray tracing and DLSS (160+ FPS!). That performance comes at a cost of 800W, supposedly.
https://videocardz.com/newz/full-nv...ice-as-fast-as-rtx-3090-in-game-control-at-4k

4090 posts a Timespy Extreme score that is 82% higher than the 3090, 66% faster than 3090 Ti.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...n-rtx-3090-ti-in-3dmark-time-spy-extreme-test

Welp, I guess I am going to be upgrading if this is true.

12% fewer compared to the full AD102 chip. The 4090 is rumored to have 16,384 cores while the AD102 has 18,432. Info in links above.
I'm on a really slow internet connection here at the top of the world, so I can't just go clicking random links to pages with tons of ads and sit on them, but... these are still just rumors, right? Did I miss a big announcement?

I'll believe an 80 percent generational performance uplift when I see it, but if that's true, and these are widely available, I guess I'll probably buy one. Maybe I can play DCS World without seeing reprojection, then.

I'd probably at least try to get a feel for what AMD would have on offer first, before spending thousands, though.
 

Armenius

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I'm on a really slow internet connection here at the top of the world, so I can't just go clicking random links to pages with tons of ads and sit on them, but... these are still just rumors, right? Did I miss a big announcement?

I'll believe an 80 percent generational performance uplift when I see it, but if that's true, and these are widely available, I guess I'll probably buy one. Maybe I can play DCS World without seeing reprojection, then.

I'd probably at least try to get a feel for what AMD would have on offer first, before spending thousands, though.
Yes, they're still rumors. The Control post is from a newer leaker, while the Timespy score is from reliable leaker kopite7kimi.

It's 2022. If you're not browsing the internet with some form of ad and script blocking then I don't know what to say.
 
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I'm on a really slow internet connection here at the top of the world, so I can't just go clicking random links to pages with tons of ads and sit on them, but... these are still just rumors, right? Did I miss a big announcement?

I'll believe an 80 percent generational performance uplift when I see it, but if that's true, and these are widely available, I guess I'll probably buy one. Maybe I can play DCS World without seeing reprojection, then.

I'd probably at least try to get a feel for what AMD would have on offer first, before spending thousands, though.
Just more rumor mill crap.
 

HockeyJon

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AD102 is twice as fast at Control in 4K resolution compared to the 3090 with ray tracing and DLSS (160+ FPS!). That performance comes at a cost of 800W, supposedly.
https://videocardz.com/newz/full-nv...ice-as-fast-as-rtx-3090-in-game-control-at-4k

4090 posts a Timespy Extreme score that is 82% higher than the 3090, 66% faster than 3090 Ti.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...n-rtx-3090-ti-in-3dmark-time-spy-extreme-test

Welp, I guess I am going to be upgrading if this is true.

12% fewer compared to the full AD102 chip. The 4090 is rumored to have 16,384 cores while the AD102 has 18,432. Info in links above.

Thanks! I think I initially misunderstood what he was saying, but I see now. Thanks for sharing that.
 

DooKey

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I’ll probably go for the 4090 as well, would be good for VR and I have a couple 4K 120hz displays. I was going to do a new platform as well but I might just get a 5800x3D and live with AM4 another year or two.

If there is only a 12% shader difference between 4090 and Full AD102 then maybe they can only fit one card above the 4090 and possibly a 4080 ti below it.
If the rumors are true, there's plenty of room for a 4080 Ti. The 4080 is significantly neutered compared to the 4090 die. I bet we see 4080 Ti in the spring once NV gets enough bad AD102 dies to make them.
 

StryderxX

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New 4090 rumors are showing the card breaking 19K in Time Spy Extreme. My 3090ti scores around 11800 so that's quite a jump in performance!
 

TheHig

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How much over 2 grand will these be if they are more than 40% faster in games? Even if Nvidia keeps similar prices across the tiers remember that we all thought prices on the 30 series sucked. Right?
 

celwin

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How much over 2 grand will these be if they are more than 40% faster in games? Even if Nvidia keeps similar prices across the tiers remember that we all thought prices on the 30 series sucked. Right?
My speculative guess. $2500 for 4090. AIBs will add their 200-300 premium on top of that. Suckers, I mean some consumers will grab them off the shelves none the less
 

TaintedSquirrel

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How much over 2 grand will these be if they are more than 40% faster in games? Even if Nvidia keeps similar prices across the tiers remember that we all thought prices on the 30 series sucked. Right?
MSRP for these is going to skyrocket for 3 reasons:
1. Nvidia increases MSRP every generation on most cards.
2. The price of everything in the world has gone up.
3. Assuming the perf leaks are true, it'll be the biggest gen leap in many years. Big leap = Big price.

As a starting point I would say add 20-30% to the 30 series MSRP to account for global market conditions. That's the bottom.
Then add another 10-30% for Nvidia's tax.
So for the 4090 FE I would expect it to be $2000 min, $2500 max.

The chance of the 40 series keeping the same MSRP as the 30 series is infinitesimal. Our last prayer is the side effect of eth mining cards being unloaded in the next few months, and demand overall being way down.
 

wandplus

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With the jump in performance and everything would they have the audacity to come out with a 4050 or even 4040? (Hey, 4040 sounds pretty cool.)
 

sk3tch

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MSRP for these is going to skyrocket for 3 reasons:
1. Nvidia increases MSRP every generation on most cards.
2. The price of everything in the world has gone up.
3. Assuming the perf leaks are true, it'll be the biggest gen leap in many years. Big leap = Big price.

As a starting point I would say add 20-30% to the 30 series MSRP to account for global market conditions. That's the bottom.
Then add another 10-30% for Nvidia's tax.
So for the 4090 FE I would expect it to be $2000 min, $2500 max.

The chance of the 40 series keeping the same MSRP as the 30 series is infinitesimal. Our last prayer is the side effect of eth mining cards being unloaded in the next few months, and demand overall being way down.

#2 isn't really applicable to video cards - they were too high priced due to Ethereum - now there's too many of them.

There's a reason only the 4090 is set to launch this year - too many 3xxx series in the channel.
 

StryderxX

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What is being failed to be mentioned is that the 3090ti score is the record holder and run on LN! Apparently >2.8GHz. While the leaked 4090 is stock on air.
What this shows is that current 3090ti 1440p performance will be similar to 4090 4K performance.
 

Armenius

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MSRP for these is going to skyrocket for 3 reasons:
1. Nvidia increases MSRP every generation on most cards.
2. The price of everything in the world has gone up.
3. Assuming the perf leaks are true, it'll be the biggest gen leap in many years. Big leap = Big price.

As a starting point I would say add 20-30% to the 30 series MSRP to account for global market conditions. That's the bottom.
Then add another 10-30% for Nvidia's tax.
So for the 4090 FE I would expect it to be $2000 min, $2500 max.

The chance of the 40 series keeping the same MSRP as the 30 series is infinitesimal. Our last prayer is the side effect of eth mining cards being unloaded in the next few months, and demand overall being way down.
The 2080 FE launched at $800. The 3080 FE launched at $700. What they actually sold at was due to retailers, not NVIDIA.

Others:

2070 FE ($600) -> 3070 FE ($500)
2060 FE ($350) -> 3060 FE ($330)
950 ($160) -> 1050 ($110)
780 Ti ($700) -> 980 Ti ($650)
780 ($650) -> 980 ($550)
770 ($400) -> 970 ($330)
760 ($250) -> 960 ($200)
650 Ti ($170) -> 750 Ti ($150)
470 ($350) -> 570 ($330)
 

TaintedSquirrel

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The 10 and 20 series FE cards weren't sold at MSRP.
Remove those, and all that's left are a bunch of Maxwell cards from 8 years ago.

The 10, 20, and 30 series have had almost exclusively price increases.
 

Nebell

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I'm afraid we might see 4xxx cards being sold alongside 3xxx cards.
Not sure what to think. One one side, it's been said that Nvidia halted 3xxx production. On the other side, I have hard time seeing a 80%+ faster card being released at a fair price.
I doubt Nvidia would do that because of AMD. Why would AMD ruin their RX 6xxx price?
But if both companies are like "yeah we've had a good run these last couple of years, let's move on" - that would be awesome, lol.
As someone mentioned before, I think 4090 will cost around $€3000 and 4080 about $€2000 while still leaving space for $€1200 3090 and $€1500 3090Ti (or maybe price cut to $€1000/1200). AMD is going to do the same and we'll get fucked over, again.
 

Marees

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I'm afraid we might see 4xxx cards being sold alongside 3xxx cards.
Not sure what to think. One one side, it's been said that Nvidia halted 3xxx production. On the other side, I have hard time seeing a 80%+ faster card being released at a fair price.
I doubt Nvidia would do that because of AMD. Why would AMD ruin their RX 6xxx price?
But if both companies are like "yeah we've had a good run these last couple of years, let's move on" - that would be awesome, lol.
As someone mentioned before, I think 4090 will cost around $€3000 and 4080 about $€2000 while still leaving space for $€1200 3090 and $€1500 3090Ti (or maybe price cut to $€1000/1200). AMD is going to do the same and we'll get fucked over, again.

I have hopes on AMD Navi33. It is supposed to have performance of 6900 XT at 1080p & 6800 XT/6800 at 4K.

The "plus" for Navi 33 is that it is only 8GB of VRAM. So AMD can't price it higher than $550 (price of current 6750 XT)

After release of Navi 33, AMD's stack might look like this:

6400 — $125 to $140
6500xt — $140 to $160

6600 — $200 to $240
6650xt — $250 to $280

6700 — $300 to $330
6750xt — $350 to $380

Navi 33xl — $380 to $430
Navi 33xt — $450 to $480
Navi 33xtx — $500 to $550

Navi 32 variants — $600 to $900
Navi 31 variants — $999 to $1500+
 
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I'm afraid we might see 4xxx cards being sold alongside 3xxx cards.
Not sure what to think. One one side, it's been said that Nvidia halted 3xxx production. On the other side, I have hard time seeing a 80%+ faster card being released at a fair price.
I doubt Nvidia would do that because of AMD. Why would AMD ruin their RX 6xxx price?
But if both companies are like "yeah we've had a good run these last couple of years, let's move on" - that would be awesome, lol.
As someone mentioned before, I think 4090 will cost around $€3000 and 4080 about $€2000 while still leaving space for $€1200 3090 and $€1500 3090Ti (or maybe price cut to $€1000/1200). AMD is going to do the same and we'll get fucked over, again.
If the 4090 is $3000+ all I can say is that there will definitely be good availability because few will want to pay that much.
 
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