Rare Apple-1 Computer Signed by Steve Wozniak Up for Auction

erek

erek

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"The Apple-1 was the first Apple product created by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak when Apple Computer was founded, and there are few left in existence of the original 200 that were manufactured.


A first batch Apple-1 went up for auction in May and sold for more than $460,000, and back in November 2021, an Apple-1 in a koa wood case sold for $500,000. Other Apple-1 computers have sold for upwards of $815,000, with rarer machines fetching more money."

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https://www.macrumors.com/2022/06/02/apple-1-computer-auction/
 
clockdogg said:
$460K?! Wow! Imagine what devoted applenuts would have paid if they had made it thinner. And shiner.
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No, this was the first all-in-one computer a hobbyist could buy / actually setup without a ton of wire-wrapping, AT half the cost of an Apple I It also looked a hell of a lot more interesting than that boring PCB from Apple.
Kim-1-computer.jpg



The tape drive was also optional, because the included hex keyboard made program entry easy. But if that included 6-entry segment-display ti too hard to read, , you can always use a serial terminal.
 
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i think Apple's I.D. team could take some lessons from the past to move to the future.
 
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The good old days of mono playback and 6 C-cell batteries that lasted roughly 3 hours. Years later we all had the same entry-level Panasonic boom box and the exact same model of Sony Walkman. Such Times....
 
I bet those 2 electrolytic capacitors aren't original.. :)

It is kinda cute all mounted to that piece of wood. Is that an 80mm fan between that transformer and that heatsink?
 
GoodBoy said:
I bet those 2 electrolytic capacitors aren't original.. :)

It is kinda cute all mounted to that piece of wood. Is that an 80mm fan between that transformer and that heatsink?
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I do question recapping and the impact on the value. Asked this question before on the forums. It bothers me to be without original parts
 
I wouldnt want original caps spewing corrosive junk all over ruining the board. Just think how much vintage electronics have been ruined over the years by leaking batteries or caps. A lot of it was preventable also by changing or removing them. I would rather have working parts to enjoy than having destroyed and non working museum pieces. If everyone wanted that way eventually all vintage electronics will fail and no longer be useable, and it will all end up just being ewaste.
 
1_rick said:
It's a lot like buying a nice car and then leaving it out in the rain with the windows down in a field for the next 40 years.
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Exactly, but it has everything original after that. Original dry rotted tires, original moldy ruined interior, original locked up engine, and original rusted out body panels and floors. its the most original car out there.
 
Starfalcon said:
I wouldnt want original caps spewing corrosive junk all over ruining the board. Just think how much vintage electronics have been ruined over the years by leaking batteries or caps. A lot of it was preventable also by changing or removing them. I would rather have working parts to enjoy than having destroyed and non working museum pieces. If everyone wanted that way eventually all vintage electronics will fail and no longer be useable, and it will all end up just being ewaste.
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what about reconditioned and or refurbished originals?
 
Why does it need to be originals, eventually all the new old stock and reconditioned parts will be dead and gone. Then what happens, everything ends up in the trash because you cant get originals anymore? I would much prefer having working hardware over nonfunctioning dead original hardware.

It is like with C64 systems, a lot of the specialized chips on the board are getting harder and harder to get with no way of getting more but pulling from other boards. Do we reach a point where everntually we just give up on the hardware and let the remaining ones go in the trash, or do we come up with new ways of replacing the old chips with new versions to keep them running. If we dont we will just end up with nonfunctional parts under glass in a museum.
 
Starfalcon said:
Do we reach a point where everntually we just give up on the hardware and let the remaining ones go in the trash, or do we come up with new ways of replacing the old chips with new versions to keep them running. If we dont we will just end up with nonfunctional parts under glass in a museum.
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I would imagine some of them could be replaced with FPGAs, but, somewhat more seriously, some of those old chips could probably be redesigned from die shots--assuming the IP holders don't object. When I was in college I remember reading online about a semiconductor class where the students laid out their own chips and then the school contracted with a fab to do small runs.
 
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Starfalcon said:
Why does it need to be originals, eventually all the new old stock and reconditioned parts will be dead and gone. Then what happens, everything ends up in the trash because you cant get originals anymore? I would much prefer having working hardware over nonfunctioning dead original hardware.

It is like with C64 systems, a lot of the specialized chips on the board are getting harder and harder to get with no way of getting more but pulling from other boards. Do we reach a point where everntually we just give up on the hardware and let the remaining ones go in the trash, or do we come up with new ways of replacing the old chips with new versions to keep them running. If we dont we will just end up with nonfunctional parts under glass in a museum.
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This is the eventual resting [place of any ancient custom hardware - eventually simulators will be a.ll you have

Luckily, there are a ton online for easy learning!

CPU-only

https://www.masswerk.at/6502/

Full PET-2001

cycle-accurate c64

https://github.com/dirkwhoffmann/virtualc64
 
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1_rick said:
I would imagine some of them could be replaced with FPGAs, but, somewhat more seriously, some of those old chips could probably be redesigned from die shots--assuming the IP holders don't object. When I was in college I remember reading online about a semiconductor class where the students laid out their own chips and then the school contracted with a fab to do small runs.
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There are already dozens and dozens of different chip replacement projects being done by people, and more are being worked on all the time. The vintage Apple community is working on replacement chips, like the GLU used in the original compact Mac SE and SE/30. There are also several replica motherboard projects because of the rate of battery and capacitor bombed boards out there that are unfixable.

In the current climate, it's exceedingly impractical and hideously expensive to send a design out to a fab. Most of the chip replacements are using PAL/GAL/CPLD/FPGAs, which keeps the cost down. But those are still expensive because 5v TTL compatible parts are getting harder to find, requiring extra hardware like level shifters and resistor networks to adapt 3.3v chips to talk to 5v devices.
 
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Starfalcon said:
Why does it need to be originals, eventually all the new old stock and reconditioned parts will be dead and gone. Then what happens, everything ends up in the trash because you cant get originals anymore? I would much prefer having working hardware over nonfunctioning dead original hardware.

It is like with C64 systems, a lot of the specialized chips on the board are getting harder and harder to get with no way of getting more but pulling from other boards. Do we reach a point where everntually we just give up on the hardware and let the remaining ones go in the trash, or do we come up with new ways of replacing the old chips with new versions to keep them running. If we dont we will just end up with nonfunctional parts under glass in a museum.
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the coin collecting community as analogy is extremely particular about improperly cleaned vs conservation. sometimes they even use scanning tunneling electron microscopy to verify coin surfaces during grading and verification.

improper cleaning can totally destroy a coin's value, so for me it's analogous to having recapped boards, etc
 
erek said:
the coin collecting community as analogy is extremely particular about improperly cleaned vs conservation. sometimes they even use scanning tunneling electron microscopy to verify coin surfaces during grading and verification.

improper cleaning can totally destroy a coin's value, so for me it's analogous to having recapped boards, etc
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It's a good thing the two aren't analogous.
 
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erek said:
the coin collecting community as analogy is extremely particular about improperly cleaned vs conservation. sometimes they even use scanning tunneling electron microscopy to verify coin surfaces during grading and verification.

improper cleaning can totally destroy a coin's value, so for me it's analogous to having recapped boards, etc
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Well the difference is that having a dirty coin will not cause the coin to be damaged. Not maintaining your electronics will cause them damage eventually 100%. If you think having leaking varta batteries and caps on your boards is good, then you will end up with nonfunctional garbage eventually. Well at least it is good to know you will just make all the rare items even more rare and valuable when all yours are destroyed.
 
Starfalcon said:
Well the difference is that having a dirty coin will not cause the coin to be damaged. Not maintaining your electronics will cause them damage eventually 100%. If you think having leaking varta batteries and caps on your boards is good, then you will end up with nonfunctional garbage eventually. Well at least it is good to know you will just make all the rare items even more rare and valuable when all yours are destroyed.
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Won’t turning on the electronic devices for awhile periodically help the capacitors?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50530
 
1_rick said:
It's a lot like buying a nice car and then leaving it out in the rain with the windows down in a field for the next 40 years.
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Reminds me of my 1st car, my grandfathers 71 Pontiac Lemans that I got after he died. It was a nice v8 that was well seasoned in Indiana winter weather.
Under frame so rusted from the road salt, you could squeeze the rear support arms 1 handed, and the floor boards could be stomped through if you ever had to Fred Flintstone the road to stop because one of the brake lines broke, from said rust...... good times, good times indeed.
 
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The Mad Atheist said:
Reminds me of my 1st car, my grandfathers 71 Pontiac Lemans that I got after he died. It was a nice v8 that was well seasoned in Indiana winter weather.
Under frame so rusted from the road salt, you could squeeze the rear support arms 1 handed, and the floor boards could be stomped through if you ever had to Fred Flintstone the road to stop because one of the brake lines broke, from said rust...... good times, good times indeed.
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😢
 
I would dig a big hole put this thing in a box and let Indiana Jones dig it up 100 years from now if you covered everything material with dirt people would sell it on ebay 109 years from now.
 
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erek said:
Won’t turning on the electronic devices for awhile periodically help the capacitors?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50530
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Not really, that is more for big old vintage caps in CRTs and PSUs. The surface mount and electrolytic caps in most cards and motherboards are garbage with a finite lifespan. They are going to die and leak eventually, it is just a question of when and how badly.
 
Starfalcon said:
Not really, that is more for big old vintage caps in CRTs and PSUs. The surface mount and electrolytic caps in most cards and motherboards are garbage with a finite lifespan. They are going to die and leak eventually, it is just a question of when and how badly.
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there's got to be a way to conserve and or mitigate the degradation of the original componentry, there just has to

could you squeeze in a shim up through the rubberized base of an electrolyte to inject in some fresh juice, etc?
 
erek said:
there's got to be a way to conserve and or mitigate the degradation of the original componentry, there just has to

could you squeeze in a shim up through the rubberized base of an electrolyte to inject in some fresh juice, etc?
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Nope, if you use the item it degrades, if you dont use the item it degrades. All caps have a finite lifespan and will eventually need to be replaced. You cant make thing designed to last a limited time, last forever.
 
erek said:
what about reconditioned and or refurbished originals?
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Replacing the caps to me is the same as "repairing" or "Refurbishing"

No reason they shouldn't keep those parts functional. And they can replace them with the identical part. The age of the capacitor isn't some magic indicator of "authenticity" or "Value" imho. I would rather the item was functionally be preserved.

Turning it on will not help the caps. They eventually dry out, heat accelerates it. And if it shorts out while the machine is in operation, you got a nasty voltage spike going thru the motherboard, frying parts all over. Far far worse outcome.

You need to think of electrolytic capacitors as a part that is expected to wear out, it just takes a long time (5-20 years probably, those look nice and big, so overengineered, which extends the life). So they are the same as a belt on a 1955 chevy, or a radiator hose on a 1963 Corvette, the tires even. No one will expect those type parts to be original when buying a vintage car, and if they are original, the first thing the new owner would do would be to replace them. Doesn't hurt the value.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
Reminds me of my 1st car, my grandfathers 71 Pontiac Lemans that I got after he died. It was a nice v8 that was well seasoned in Indiana winter weather.
Under frame so rusted from the road salt, you could squeeze the rear support arms 1 handed, and the floor boards could be stomped through if you ever had to Fred Flintstone the road to stop because one of the brake lines broke, from said rust...... good times, good times indeed.
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i knew of a LeMans before in my friend's garage:

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1655409735812.png
 
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