Please help me to spend my money wisely. VR configuration

majic12

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
149
Never owned VR and read A lot. Black Friday is coming and I really need the equipment for work. If you have the time, please, Please help me with my questions and fill the gaps if Im missing something.
Its mainly for motion capture work and less gaming:
Planing on purchasing as soon as possible:
- Valve Index
- 4 base stations
- 12 vive trackers 3.0
- good laptop without breaking the bank


1) I saw that a Display Port is needed for this to work. For some reasons most laptops don't even have a mini Display port. Will a USB C to Display Port adapter fix this ?? Its just a theory but i saw 2 topics where it helped for some and not for others.

2) The laptop I was looking at was with a ryzen 7 5800h, 16 gb ram and a mobile RTX 3050 4gb. Enough to pass the vr test ?

3) The laptop will have at least two free usb 3 ports. For 12 trackers, the only thing that comes to my head is to purchase 2 usb hubs that are wall powered and each usb hub can support 6 trackers dongles. I suspect the single usb 3.0 will be able to handle at least 6 tackers , correct? Saw a photo of someone using 8 trakers with some cheap amazon usb hub once.

Im sure i have more questions but lets start with this. If im lucky, everything can run up to 3500 euros which is a lot for me but I really need it for my work so I want to take the steps carefully.


Again, I truly appreciate your time and advice ! Thank you.


(I have explored many aternatives about home made motion capture, going from perception neuron (used it once actualy) to using kinect cameras. From all the research and people with who I talked with, using vive trackers seems to give the most professional results , so that is why I am here)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liver
like this

majic12

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
149
No one ? I was left with the impression that people also use the vr thing with laptops ?
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,714
No one ? I was left with the impression that people also use the vr thing with laptops ?

I think nobody knows exactly what you are trying to do.

Is the motion capture going to be graphically intensive?

While the Valve index is good, it's very expensive. And if you aren't gaming, are the knuckle controllers a needless added expense?

What was your reasoning behind picking the Index? Is it because it can reach 144hz? Or does that even matter?
 

majic12

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
149
I think nobody knows exactly what you are trying to do.

Is the motion capture going to be graphically intensive?

While the Valve index is good, it's very expensive. And if you aren't gaming, are the knuckle controllers a needless added expense?

What was your reasoning behind picking the Index? Is it because it can reach 144hz? Or does that even matter?
Hello and thank you for taking your time. I most probably didn't explained it very well mainly due to lack of info for my self.Apologies.
So the motion capture is medium intensive (and that is because geometry is added some times similar to games) Most of the time is just a skeleton on a empty scene and nothing more.

The reason I stopped at the valve index is because of :
-I can get it second hand (hmd,2 base stations and the 2 hand controllers) for 700-800 euros at most.

-I decided on the valve index because of the hand controllers , I can actually use those for finger tracking. And these are way more cheaper than using 5k gloves or similar.

The head display doesn't need to be the valve one also. If im not mistaking, the valve hand controllers work with other hmd too ?

144hz is of no interest to me.



So the first thing that has me puzzled right now is if all vr head sets use a display port, how to make sure that is going to work with a new laptop ? Valve doesn't mention anything about if a display port to usb C adapter is going to be enough ??

And if it is( based on your thoughts or experience) I suspect I have to be carefull that the USB C is wired to the maing gpu of the laptop and not the iGPU , correct ? As it will make the laptop useless for vr ?


To be more precise, I am after this result for work.



A little light game will only be a bonus after.
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,714
Hello and thank you for taking your time.
You are welcome. Sorry for not getting back to earlier but I was away for the weekend.

Thanks for the detailed post. That helps a lot.

I just presumed you were buying everything new, but, if you are getting the Valve Index with controllers and 2 base stations for a good price, then I think that's the best option. Lens glare can be pretty bad in one. If at all possible, try it on before buying.

The hand controllers can be made work with any headset. Just a bit more faffing about if you use headsets from other manufacturers like The Reverb G2 or Quest 2.

Why do you need 4 base stations? Base Stations don't track anything, they just flash IR LEDs and sweep the room with lasers. The trackers, headset and controllers watch for the flash and then measures how long until it gets hit with each laser sweep. Then it combines that info with the sensor that got hit to work out the location. Unless you are using the headset in a really oddly shaped room, I can't see 4 been better than 2. I don't think there is any limit on the number of trackers per base station. If I was you I would try with 2 first and go from there.

As for your laptop. I am not sure that the 3050 will give you a good experience, it's only 4GB of Vram. The desktop version is what I would consider the bare minimum for VR. The laptop version is going to be worse. If you are going to be doing a lot of work on this and maybe some light gaming, you should really consider something more powerful. My suggestion would be to wait until Black Friday and see can you get a laptop with a 3070 or a 3060Ti.

The second part of your question, the display port. You are correct, the Valve Index will not work with a DP to HDMI adapter. You will have to check any laptop you are thinking of buying to make sure that the USB-C port supports ALT DP mode or has a display port. You are also correct, that you have to make sure that it connects to the dedicated GPU not the integrated one. If you get a laptop with a USB C port that supports ALT DP mode, you will still need a USB C to display port adapter. Be warned though, these are very hit and miss, even between the same model and brand.
 

majic12

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
149
You are welcome. Sorry for not getting back to earlier but I was away for the weekend.

Thanks for the detailed post. That helps a lot.

I just presumed you were buying everything new, but, if you are getting the Valve Index with controllers and 2 base stations for a good price, then I think that's the best option. Lens glare can be pretty bad in one. If at all possible, try it on before buying.

The hand controllers can be made work with any headset. Just a bit more faffing about if you use headsets from other manufacturers like The Reverb G2 or Quest 2.

Why do you need 4 base stations? Base Stations don't track anything, they just flash IR LEDs and sweep the room with lasers. The trackers, headset and controllers watch for the flash and then measures how long until it gets hit with each laser sweep. Then it combines that info with the sensor that got hit to work out the location. Unless you are using the headset in a really oddly shaped room, I can't see 4 been better than 2. I don't think there is any limit on the number of trackers per base station. If I was you I would try with 2 first and go from there.

As for your laptop. I am not sure that the 3050 will give you a good experience, it's only 4GB of Vram. The desktop version is what I would consider the bare minimum for VR. The laptop version is going to be worse. If you are going to be doing a lot of work on this and maybe some light gaming, you should really consider something more powerful. My suggestion would be to wait until Black Friday and see can you get a laptop with a 3070 or a 3060Ti.

The second part of your question, the display port. You are correct, the Valve Index will not work with a DP to HDMI adapter. You will have to check any laptop you are thinking of buying to make sure that the USB-C port supports ALT DP mode or has a display port. You are also correct, that you have to make sure that it connects to the dedicated GPU not the integrated one. If you get a laptop with a USB C port that supports ALT DP mode, you will still need a USB C to display port adapter. Be warned though, these are very hit and miss, even between the same model and brand.
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation ! Most appreciated. I also managed to get a few more answers from random youtube videos users and is more or less similar to what you say.Use a mobile rtx 3060 as a minimum. Looking at this as im cutting money from every angle. Most probably in order to be portable, I start to suspect i should build a sff case or buy one using the black friday. I actually saw a 8.5 l mini pc that is a zotac ZBOX-ECM53060C that comes with a i5 -10400 and a desktop rtx 3060 12gb for 845 euros. I only need to add laptop ram and a ssd and is good to go. Will reach probably 1k at best.
I suspect it has a psu of 80+ 500w and im not sure how that is certified but i suspect its the minimum ?

About the 4 base stations. Every motion capture video I saw was using 4 base stations to track the vive trackers in a 10x10 or 7x7 meter square floor surface. If 2 are used, there is noticeable drifting since there are so many trackers.

And the head set hmd..I actually dont need that one. But ive read somewhere that steam vr will not let you use the vive trackers, hand controllers and base stations unless a hmd was plugged in the pc ?? Is that even true? Some say to me it is not and you can add to the notepad steam vr file a few commands to not use a hmd. Others said to me that this doesn't always work.

As you can see in the videos above, the actor actually has strapped to his head a vive tracker and not a hmd. No idea though if he has the hmd plugged in the pc as i cant get in touch with him.
Never knew Vr was so expensive of a hobby. Add to it 12 vive trackers for work and is a salt and toast bread for a few years hahaha
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,714
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation ! Most appreciated. I also managed to get a few more answers from random youtube videos users and is more or less similar to what you say.Use a mobile rtx 3060 as a minimum. Looking at this as im cutting money from every angle. Most probably in order to be portable, I start to suspect i should build a sff case or buy one using the black friday. I actually saw a 8.5 l mini pc that is a zotac ZBOX-ECM53060C that comes with a i5 -10400 and a desktop rtx 3060 12gb for 845 euros. I only need to add laptop ram and a ssd and is good to go. Will reach probably 1k at best.
I suspect it has a psu of 80+ 500w and im not sure how that is certified but i suspect its the minimum ?

About the 4 base stations. Every motion capture video I saw was using 4 base stations to track the vive trackers in a 10x10 or 7x7 meter square floor surface. If 2 are used, there is noticeable drifting since there are so many trackers.

And the head set hmd..I actually dont need that one. But ive read somewhere that steam vr will not let you use the vive trackers, hand controllers and base stations unless a hmd was plugged in the pc ?? Is that even true? Some say to me it is not and you can add to the notepad steam vr file a few commands to not use a hmd. Others said to me that this doesn't always work.

As you can see in the videos above, the actor actually has strapped to his head a vive tracker and not a hmd. No idea though if he has the hmd plugged in the pc as i cant get in touch with him.
Never knew Vr was so expensive of a hobby. Add to it 12 vive trackers for work and is a salt and toast bread for a few years hahaha

The problem with buying a mini PC, is that you need a monitor too. Are you going to lug a monitor around with you as well?? But, a PC should be cheaper than an similarly spec'd laptop.

As I said, the base-stations don't track anything. The Trackers track themselves. It depends on the size of the space you are using them in. I think 2 Base-stations cover a 5mx5m area. 3 for 7x7 and 4 for 10x10. Will you need more than a 5x5 meter area?

Well, if you don't get the headset, there goes the bonus of some light gaming!! :p That side of things I don't know much about, sorry. I haven't looked much into it. I know there are people who have edited the Steam VR config files to get something like this working without using a headset. But I don't know much beyond that. You could take a look around for a second hand Vive headset, just the headset only. Work out the cost of buying the Vive and Basestations and controllers separately vs buying the complete Valve Index package second hand above. Sometimes the savings just aren't worth it.

For what you want, yes, VR is expensive. Things always are at the high end. For most VR users, they just buy the Quest 2 or Pico 4 for less than €500 and play away. No PC needed. You can connect both to a PC if you need to. People have setup full body tracking using the Quest 2 as well. And there are other full body tracking kits out there. Shiftall do something called the HaritoraX. Currently they are switching over to an updated version so might be hard to get one at the moment. Might not be suitable for your work though.

As for the budget, think of the positives. Imagine how thin you will be in a few years :ROFLMAO:
 
Top