M76
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2012
- Messages
- 13,739
I liked the intro music. No, you can't change my mind.The intro music killed it before it got started.
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I liked the intro music. No, you can't change my mind.The intro music killed it before it got started.
I liked the intro music. No, you can't change my mind.
Enterprise probably has the highest ratio of good episodes to bad episodes of any series and it's short even if you start over at season 1.
The intro music killed it before it got started.
I liked the intro music. No, you can't change my mind.
That is better. Never cared for the intro song. Partial to the alternate "Mirror Darkly" intro myself. Among my favorite episodes of the series.The intro is better with Archer's Theme, Dennis McCarthy's score.
Nope.The intro is better with Archer's Theme, Dennis McCarthy's score.
First Season of DS9, as I recall, wasn't as bad as the first 2 seasons of TNG and by S3, DS9 was better than TNG was at that point (S7 as I recall), though S7 had it's moments and All Good Things was a great ep (and IMO the best final ep in Trek).Actually Enterprise produced quite a few great episodes, ones that were very close to the original idea of Star Trek, and of course a lot of terrible ones as well. But we'd be lying if we said TOS or TNG didn't have bad episodes. Hell the entire first season of DS9 was pretty terrible imho.
I'd give that to DS9. S1 is a bit sketchy, but S2 was much better and after S2, most eps were good to great. It's the one Trek I'd pay big bucks for to get in HD (or better still 4K). I thought about TNG, but I just decided I didn't care enough to buy it again. You'd have to pay me to watch Voyager again.Enterprise probably has the highest ratio of good episodes to bad episodes of any series and it's short even if you start over at season 1.
The intro music killed it before it got started.
I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.First Season of DS9, as I recall, wasn't as bad as the first 2 seasons of TNG and by S3, DS9 was better than TNG was at that point (S7 as I recall), though S7 had it's moments and All Good Things was a great ep (and IMO the best final ep in Trek).
And as bad as S1 could be, nothing was as bad as S2 (though I guess you give them a parital pass, since I think there was a writers strike).
I'll take your word for it. I don't remember DS9 S1 being that bad (but it definitely was the weakest season), but when I rewatched TNG, I distinctly rmeember S1 being much weaker than I thought the first go round and S2 had me cringing at times....then S3 came and they were off to the races.I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.
TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.
TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
I'll take your word for it. I don't remember DS9 S1 being that bad (but it definitely was the weakest season), but when I rewatched TNG, I distinctly rmeember S1 being much weaker than I thought the first go round and S2 had me cringing at times....then S3 came and they were off to the races.
I suspect you haven't re-watched TNG S1 in a while. Over half the season is bad. Spock's Brain caliber bad. All of the writing staff quit (save for Rick Berman) bad. Most racist episode in ST history bad. Two cast members fled/fired (Gates McFadden and Denise Crosby) bad. Even the Shat made a documentary of how bad TNG's first two seasons were bad.
It's a miracle that we got a S3 considering how bad S1 & 2 were. And a grand miracle that S3 was so good. Michael Piller doesn't get enough credit for literally saving the franchise.
TNG is largely carried on the back of Picard. Where DS9 has 10+ characters that were better than the second best character of TNG.
This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.
Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.
Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
I suspect you haven't re-watched TNG S1 in a while. Over half the season is bad. Spock's Brain caliber bad. All of the writing staff quit (save for Rick Berman) bad. Most racist episode in ST history bad. Two cast members fled/fired (Gates McFadden and Denise Crosby) bad. Even the Shat made a documentary of how bad TNG's first two seasons were bad.
It's a miracle that we got a S3 considering how bad S1 & 2 were. And a grand miracle that S3 was so good. Michael Piller doesn't get enough credit for literally saving the franchise.
What made Garek so good is that it was always hard to tell if he was good or bad. In some ways Quark could be like that (mostly in early seasons, as I recall), but not as much as Garek. But to go back to what you or snowdog said, there were so many good characters. And that comes down to the writers. The fact is that O'Brien and Worf were better characters on DS9 than they were on TNG. And virtually every character was more nuanced and realistic than those on TNG. They were less perfect. Most weren't always good, but neither were the bad guys always bad.This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.
Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
What made Garek so good is that it was always hard to tell if he was good or bad.
Damn I want this in HD...This discussion makes me really want to watch the entire thing again (even S1/S2, though maybe I'll change my mind if I get a chance to buy the series again).
You should really watch TNG now. The 2012 remaster was very special. The show was recompiled using the original camera negatives and the whole schmeel was recomposited from scratch. No CGI replacements (for the most part) If there was a Kickstarter to remaster DS9/VOY using the same method- Shut Up and Take My Money. (and I don't even like VOY)I think you have to remember just how starved many were for new Trek. And although it may look dated now (I haven't seen the HD versions), at the time, the SFX were some of the best on TV and certainly the best for a syndicated program.
,People love to bag on Discovery, but the first season was probably the best first season for any trek series