Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

Mauler87

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You should also vote with your wallet, then companies like Philips will have to make PWM free monitors like Acer, BenQ and LG.

It's pretty telling when the Philips defenders bought it before reviews came out and its defense comes in the form of excuses and ignorance regarding PWM.

Just wanting to call you out NCX:

http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/monitor-reviews-discussion/8220-samsung-s27a950d-review.html

You are all up in arms about PWM and how it's a shit technology to be used. Why then did you praise this PWM monitor in another review that you yourself conducted with it being a 180hz PWM? (that being a 120hz panel AND 180hz PWM). Not only that but the monitor itself is notorious for BLB, in fact I used YOUR review in my choice to purchase it.

It seems to me you like to roll out the troll bait for no good reason. The truth is you cannot go wrong with any monitor really because every single one has a purpose.

It's all about "fit for purpose", and if you're going to squabble over price within the PC industry both gaming and professional, settle for a console and let the rest of us enjoy each and every new tech release along with the reviews that follow.

Just like life, technology is about the here and now, and there will always be tech choices we make and look back on and go "wtf was I thinking?". The whole point is to share with each other, all the technology we use in our everyday lives and hopefully through that others will enjoy using it in theirs.

The very moment I saw your posts I immediately felt sorry for you, the amount of venom hidden in your words just made me feel down about reading the entire thread.

If you're going to bash a product and hate it that much without being a bit more constructive, please just make a thread for the product bash. This is much easier to stomach than coming in and bashing peoples choices in what they purchase, that's just insulting them to put it bluntly.
 
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Mauler87

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Just to add in there as well, Voting with your wallet is nonsensical. These companies make a ton off of underpinning contracts with other companies, consumers are more like the icing on the cake for them.

You will never sway their decisions unless you are a god-like engineer that can solve their cost/benefit problems.

Truth is we're almost powerless and along for the ride, I'd prefer to make the most out of this journey, what about you?.
 

Nikyo

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Just wanting to call you out NCX:

http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/monitor-reviews-discussion/8220-samsung-s27a950d-review.html

You are all up in arms about PWM and how it's a shit technology to be used. Why then did you praise this PWM monitor in another review that you yourself conducted with it being a 180hz PWM? (that being a 120hz panel AND 180hz PWM). Not only that but the monitor itself is notorious for BLB, in fact I used YOUR review in my choice to purchase it.

Just to add in there as well, Voting with your wallet is nonsensical. These companies make a ton off of underpinning contracts with other companies, consumers are more like the icing on the cake for them.

You will never sway their decisions unless you are a god-like engineer that can solve their cost/benefit problems.

Truth is we're almost powerless and along for the ride, I'd prefer to make the most out of this journey, what about you?.

1.) That review is from 2011

2.) The PWM frequency on the S27A950D is 180hz

3.) All of the 120hz panels at that point in time used PWM. NCX recommends BenQ gaming monitors now as they're PWM free.

4.) There's literally no reason not to condemn Philips for using PWM when multiple companies are phasing it out their monitors entirely. Not to mention, PWM increases motion blurring as well as causing eyestrain; it's only detrimental.

5.) Voting with our wallets appears to have already swayed BenQ, Eizo, LG and Acer.

6.) Try reading and using logical reasoning before posting.
 

Mauler87

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1.) That review is from 2011

2.) The PWM frequency on the S27A950D is 180hz

3.) All of the 120hz panels at that point in time used PWM. NCX recommends BenQ gaming monitors now as they're PWM free.

4.) There's literally no reason not to condemn Philips for using PWM when multiple companies are phasing it out their monitors entirely. Not to mention, PWM increases motion blurring as well as causing eyestrain; it's only detrimental.

5.) Voting with our wallets appears to have already swayed BenQ, Eizo, LG and Acer.

6.) Try reading and using logical reasoning before posting.


Read the entire thing actually, and I realize you had to pull the time-frame card but seriously?. And it only swayed those company's because they rely on the consumer market. Philips does not heavily rely on the consumer portion of the market for it's displays.

I used logical reasoning, hence pointing out the reason for a product forum, but to be on the verge of abusing/insulting towards people for their purchase before a release is a bit of a dick move.

Instead of moving on from the PWM you guys have tag teamed trying to mention it in every nook and cranny of your posts. Would like something new brought to the table, whether it be negative or positive.

Flogging a dead horse is not the way to go imho. :eek:
 

Mauler87

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On that note I will be purchasing the monitor as soon as it is available in Australia (stock due 7-9th on Jan) and posting a full review of it and linking it here.

Hope it will help anyone sitting on the fence, I assume with the new Seiki's it will just be a new T-con board and there will be very little difference in panel quality since their last release.
 

Nikyo

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Read the entire thing actually, and I realize you had to pull the time-frame card but seriously?. And it only swayed those company's because they rely on the consumer market. Philips does not heavily rely on the consumer portion of the market for it's displays.

I used logical reasoning, hence pointing out the reason for a product forum, but to be on the verge of abusing/insulting towards people for their purchase before a release is a bit of a dick move.

Instead of moving on from the PWM you guys have tag teamed trying to mention it in every nook and cranny of your posts. Would like something new brought to the table, whether it be negative or positive.

Flogging a dead horse is not the way to go imho. :eek:

You mean a flaw in a certain monitor was pointed out, people (owners; people who bought the monitor before reviews surfaced) got mad and proceeded to sling insults. All the while objective facts about why PWM is unacceptable have been posted, but no one cares because of owner bias.

It's just like MrMike said:

Every thread here turns into a QA-fest very quickly, and from there it's:

  • This display is junk, it has <fatal flaw>
  • I don't see anything, you must have mental problems.
  • I bought it, I like it, I don't care what you guys say.

If Philips doesn't rely on the 'consumer market', then I urge people not to buy from them because it's evident then that they do not care for the consumer, as I've been saying.

Flogging a dead horse: You're bringing up PWM again; though, your argument is less of an argument and more like you just failed to use logic/read facts. Nothing you said, for that matter, has any affect on anything NCX or I have said in this thread.

If you really made an account on this forum just to attack NCX, then I have to say, the very moment I saw your posts I immediately felt sorry for you, the amount of venom hidden in your words just made me feel down about reading the entire thread. :rolleyes:

Happy Holidays!
 

Mauler87

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Hah I love the way this turns into on schoolyard bull****. I started posting here because I have read hardforum for years and decided to make an account to post a review of a product when it eventually arrives.

I realize you both have thick hides and love the troll life, that doesn't bother me, and when you insult someones choice of course they will reply swiftly and justly.

No holidays here, working on a contract so no such luck but thanks all the same, you too.
 

Mauler87

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There is a workaround for said unspeakable issue, so that is not as much of a problem as it could be. Yes it's a shame it cannot be taken right back to the factory and changed but eh that's life.

What I'm looking forward to is the minimal/nil change required to the OS scaling to be usable in all situations. And with releases like this if it truly is a hunk of junk, at least it is creating competition of some sort. Would like to see a nice swath of 34" and 40" VA panels with decent response times and uniformity.

Never judge a book by it's cover, post number or years stats are just silly, you never know what someones background/knowledge amounts to.
 

rinaldo00

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You mean a flaw in a certain monitor was pointed out, people (owners; people who bought the monitor before reviews surfaced) got mad and proceeded to sling insults. All the while objective facts about why PWM is unacceptable have been posted, but no one cares because of owner bias.

Strangly the only review I know of about this monitor, the one from tftcentral, praised it highly. Owners should be HAPPIER after reading it.

Here are some comments from it

Default DeltaE Average Comparisn
Default setup of the screen was pretty decent overall. Gamma was accurate, colour accuracy dE was nice and low and we had an amazing contrast ratio thanks to the VA panel. The white point let it down a little as it was 9% out from the target and a bit too cool. Easy enough to adjust and correct through calibration though which was good news.

Calibrated Black Depth and Contrast Ratio Comparison
The panel did extremely well in terms of black depth and contrast ratio, with a calibrated contrast ratio of 4128:1 measured. In the past we've seen common AMVA contrast ratios of around 2000 - 3000:1 from panels manufactured by AU Optronics. The Eizo FG2421 had reached 4845:1 with its Sharp MVA panel. Here, the TP Vision VA panel of the Philips BDM4065UC reached up to 4128:1 after calibration. Contrast ratio was an obvious strong point of this panel, far out-doing anything which TN Film or IPS-type panels can offer (up to around 1000:1 in best cases).

Viewing Angles
Viewing angles were not as wide as IPS or PLS panels as you might expect given this is a VA matrix. They were not too bad though compared with a lot of other VA panels out there which was pleasing. The contrast shifts were evident here from wider angles, but there was very little colour tone shift thankfully which is far more noticeable on most other VA panels.

Backlight Leakage
As usual we also tested the screen with an all black image and in a darkened room. A camera was used to capture the result. Three was no noticeable backlight bleed or clouding at all, and the screen offered very deep and dark blacks thanks to its VA panel.

Response Time
The response time performance of the BDM4065UC was impressive for a VA type panel, even when you consider we had to stick with the overdrive setting turned off to avoid a mass of overshoot artefacts.

Input Lag
The screen showed a total average display lag of 24.0 ms as measured with SMTT 2. Taking into account half the average G2G response time at 3.7ms ('off' SmartResponse overdrive setting), we can estimate that there is ~20.3 ms of signal processing lag on this screen. This is only just over 1 frame and represents a moderate level of lag. Should be ok for most gamers although some competitive or FPS type gamers might find it a bit too high.

Conclusion

The first thing which strikes you about this screen is of course its size! It's truly a massive screen and some might argue that it's too big for every day desktop use. However, being so big does mean that the 3840 x 2160 quad HD resolution works very comfortably and you don't need to worry about OS and application scaling which is nice. The size and resolution make multi-tasking very easy, and the wide range of MultiView PiP/PbP options make split screening very practical. For gaming and movies the screen is excellent, offering a size equivalent to most TV's and something which you can comfortably use from a couple of metres away and still feel big, or from up close giving you impressive immersion.

The VA panel performed very well overall, and we were impressed particularly by a couple of areas, The contrast ratio was excellent and clearly dark content and shadow detail is a strong point of this screen. The response times were also impressive for this panel technology, offering a decent gaming and movie experience for a VA panel. Default setup was decent enough and it's not hard to tweak some settings to correct the colour temperature. Unfortunately while the sRGB factory calibrated mode offered even more accurate setup, the preset was locked at 100% brightness making it unusable in practice. The uniformity correction mode worked well also which was pleasing, but the setup of gamma and white point need correcting in that mode through calibration. The VA panel offered pretty decent viewing angles as well, not as good as IPS but the freedom from the pale glow on dark content that you get from IPS was more beneficial on a screen this size. That lack of glow, the 4k resolution and the high contrast ratio made it very enjoyable for movie viewing.

There were a couple of areas which were disappointing. The lack of any ergonomic adjustments from the stand was disappointing, but we suppose very comparable to modern TV's. The use of PWM for backlight dimming was a shame as well. All in all we thought we would never get used to a screen this size, but actually after a week or two of use it's very useable. The screen is a very interesting choice for that all in one display, which can be happily used as a decent desktop monitor and offer some very nice LCD TV-style gaming and movie experience. The price is very attractive as well, currently retailing in the UK at ~£689.99 (GBP). For a 4k screen so big, it's a very nice option.


TL;DR
The ONLY things they found disappointing were the stand and the PWM, two things that will not affect a majority of users.
 
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what is the brightness at for your work computer? - if its 100 it dont matter if its less then ya may not effect you

I have to check, but is below 100; I guess between 50 and 70. 100 is too bright for me. So PWM would be on.

At home I work and play with a Apple cinema 30", from 2004. Enjoying it every dag. Can't find any where whether this monitor uses PWM. I have no issues with this screen for the last 10 years, so if the Apple cinema 30" has PWM, I don't care if the Philips has it either.
 

rinaldo00

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I have to check, but is below 100; I guess between 50 and 70. 100 is too bright for me. So PWM would be on.

At home I work and play with a Apple cinema 30", from 2004. Enjoying it every dag. Can't find any where whether this monitor uses PWM. I have no issues with this screen for the last 10 years, so if the Apple cinema 30" has PWM, I don't care if the Philips has it either.

Back then LCDs used CCFL, Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp, as a backlight source, today they mostly used LEDs

From the full article about PWM, here
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm


Flicker from LED backlights is typically much more visible than for CCFL backlights at the same duty cycle because the LED's are able to switch on and off much faster, and do not continue to "glow" after the power is cut off. This means that where the CCFL backlight showed rather smooth luminance variation, the LED version shows sharper transitions between on and off states. This is why more recently the subject of PWM has cropped up online and in reviews, since more and more displays are moving to W-LED backlighting units now.


What people have NOT been saying about PWM is this, a majority of people will never notice it.

From the same article

Conclusion
As we said at the beginning, this article is not designed to scare people away from modern LCD displays, rather to help inform people of this potential issue. With the growing popularity in W-LED backlit monitors it does seem to be causing more user complaints than older displays, and this is related to the PWM technique used and ultimately the type of backlight selected. Of course the problems which can potentially be caused by the use of PWM are not seen by everyone, and in fact I expect there are far more people who would never notice any of the symptoms than there are people who do. For those who do suffer from side effects including headaches and eye strain there is an explanation at least.
 

Mauler87

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I have to check, but is below 100; I guess between 50 and 70. 100 is too bright for me. So PWM would be on.

At home I work and play with a Apple cinema 30", from 2004. Enjoying it every dag. Can't find any where whether this monitor uses PWM. I have no issues with this screen for the last 10 years, so if the Apple cinema 30" has PWM, I don't care if the Philips has it either.

One dead giveaway if you aren't sensitive to it is if you're in a dark room and while you're looking at the screen your peripheral vision (eyelashes etc..) flicker with a white light. Then it's PWM. It is hard to spot but that is one way to tell. I get it from my 120hz when I game/work late at night.

Hope that helps.
 

elleana

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You mean a flaw in a certain monitor was pointed out, people (owners; people who bought the monitor before reviews surfaced) got mad and proceeded to sling insults. All the while objective facts about why PWM is unacceptable have been posted, but no one cares because of owner bias.

All right, I'll feed the troll.

Just so I'm sure, is long term use of monitors with PWM hazardous to eyesight / health of everyone, or only those who experience eyestrain and headaches from using such monitors?

The only 'objective fact' I have seen about PWM is that it may cause eyestrain and headaches in certain people. I am not in this subset of people. And yes, I purchased this monitor before TFTCentral's review was published but I'm not sure how you go from 'PWM does not affect me' to 'OMG THIS IS A TERRIBAD MONITOR BUT I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I HAVE IT LOLZ'
 

Marm0t

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PWM is massively exaggerated on this board because this is an enthusiast board. You won't hear normal people talking about it. Really the reason boards like this exist is to get a group of picky bastards together to decide what they like. That being said, there's no reason it shouldn't be talked about.. Its important to others the same way the fact that its 4k or 40 inches is important to you.


Some of us prefer 60HZ IPS panels, others would rather never use a computer than to use one that runs at less than 120HZ, Some still swear by CRT's and haven't made the switch yet.


Theres no reason to throw namecalling and stuff around. That gets everyone riled up and goes nowhere.
 

Chucco

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Totally different question, does the screen comes with a Display port cable ? I will receive the screen in a few days, and I want to know if I need to order a DP cable or not.

Thanks
 

Nardeus

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Totally different question, does the screen comes with a Display port cable ? I will receive the screen in a few days, and I want to know if I need to order a DP cable or not.

Thanks

681978philipsbdm4065uc7.png


=> http://www.docdroid.net/jfd4/bdm4065uc-00.pdf.html

Connectivity&#8226; USB: USB 3.0 x 4 + faster charger&#8226; Signal Input: VGA (Analog ), DisplayPort, mini DisplayPort, HDMI (digital, HDCP), MHL-HDMI (digital, HDCP)&#8226; Sync Input: Separate Sync, Sync on Green&#8226; Audio (In/Out): PC audio-in, Headphone out&#8226;RS232
 

Michaelius

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PWM is massively exaggerated on this board because this is an enthusiast board. You won't hear normal people talking about it. Really the reason boards like this exist is to get a group of picky bastards together to decide what they like. That being said, there's no reason it shouldn't be talked about.. Its important to others the same way the fact that its 4k or 40 inches is important to you.


Some of us prefer 60HZ IPS panels, others would rather never use a computer than to use one that runs at less than 120HZ, Some still swear by CRT's and haven't made the switch yet.

Theres no reason to throw namecalling and stuff around. That gets everyone riled up and goes nowhere.

Still PWN usage by any manufacturer should be criticized - there are no benefits to that technology and PWN free models aren't more expensive.

And if someone really needs to use it then they should use frequency at least order of magnitude higher than fps visible on display.
 

Mauler87

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Totally different question, does the screen comes with a Display port cable ? I will receive the screen in a few days, and I want to know if I need to order a DP cable or not.

Thanks

Hey Mate,

Yes it does come with a DP cable though the manual has to throw in the *depends on country purchased in. But chances are you will get one but theyre usually not that long about 1.5m.
 

Mauler87

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Still PWN usage by any manufacturer should be criticized - there are no benefits to that technology and PWN free models aren't more expensive.

And if someone really needs to use it then they should use frequency at least order of magnitude higher than fps visible on display.

There is the shading workaround, but PWM was originally blown up because a lot of people with epilepsy were having fits and wondering why. I use PWM at work on dual 20" monitors and my 27" at home both with different hz rates.

I seriously suffer nothing, I do feel tired usually but that's from doing long hours more than anything. Best thing to do is to either find a monitor a friend owns/at work and use that a long as possible, preferably in a dark environment for worst case testing. If you experience nothing there really isn't anything to worry about.

Eye's and retina's deteriorate no matter what, it's a fact of aging. As far as damage goes, imho i believe it's a non-issue, as for being susceptible, you will know if you test it.

So if your family or yourself has a history of epilepsy, it's simple, do not buy this screen.
 

Mauler87

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There is the shading workaround, but PWM was originally blown up because a lot of people with epilepsy were having fits and wondering why. I use PWM at work on dual 20" monitors and my 27" at home both with different hz rates.

I seriously suffer nothing, I do feel tired usually but that's from doing long hours more than anything. Best thing to do is to either find a monitor a friend owns/at work and use that a long as possible, preferably in a dark environment for worst case testing. If you experience nothing there really isn't anything to worry about.

Eye's and retina's deteriorate no matter what, it's a fact of aging. As far as damage goes, imho i believe it's a non-issue, as for being susceptible, you will know if you test it.

So if your family or yourself has a history of epilepsy, it's simple, do not buy this screen.

To put it in perspective, I use PWM monitors at the very least 14-15 hours a day, 2 weeks per month. As someone who can notice it in my peripheral when fatigued I would assume I am towards the worst case scenario. That's why I cracked the shit's over people blowing it up/blowing up over it.

Not to mention when i was younger I had vehicle battery acid get in my eye and destroyed some of my lense, so a weak, fatigued and damaged eye doesn't react badly to it. Sorry for the full blown life story just wanting to allay any fears of radioactive or burnt to ashes eyeballs after using the monitor :p.
 

MrMike

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PWM is massively exaggerated on this board because this is an enthusiast board. You won't hear normal people talking about it. Really the reason boards like this exist is to get a group of picky bastards together to decide what they like. That being said, there's no reason it shouldn't be talked about.. Its important to others the same way the fact that its 4k or 40 inches is important to you.


Some of us prefer 60HZ IPS panels, others would rather never use a computer than to use one that runs at less than 120HZ, Some still swear by CRT's and haven't made the switch yet.


Theres no reason to throw namecalling and stuff around. That gets everyone riled up and goes nowhere.

The name calling really doesn't belong on either side, and it just fills the thread with dribble when it should be useful information and personal opinions about the monitor.

People defending the monitor over and over when they haven't even seen it aren't helping. Once you have it in front of you please post an opinion, even if it's "uneducated" by the standards of the picky bastards.

With that said though, it's pretty mean to try to ruin something for others just because you don't like it or it doesn't fit your use case.

The display has PWM. It was posted in the TFT Central Review. I don't see what else needs to be said.
 

marktruman

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so, in a nutshell, is this good for gaming?

I have a 34" LG now, I like bigger screens, would it be worth upgrading?

I have a decent rig to play games
 

General Lee

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The reviewer doesn't really state anything we didn't know already, and was mostly superficial about the features and the experience with the monitor rather than mentioning any technical detail or tests. He didn't really mention any negatives besides the obvious (large size, poor stand, glossy reflections, high price).
 

rinaldo00

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This screen is a downgrade from what you have.

In terms of what, PWM? Yes it is PWM free, but in terms of input lag and response time the
Philips BDM4065UC matches it. Of course the LG is an IPS panel an the Philips is PVA, but if you want a 40" 4K monitor than you have limited choices.
 

Mauler87

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so, in a nutshell, is this good for gaming?

I have a 34" LG now, I like bigger screens, would it be worth upgrading?

I have a decent rig to play games

A user earlier in the thread mentioned that he had the curved LG 34 (not sure how much difference it is from the flat panel). He said he is using the Philips a lot more frequently than the LG.

As far as latency is concerned they're matched with the pixel transitions beating out the LG by a hair.

All the best in your decision.
 

Mauler87

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To get the optimum out of the monitor so far it appears if you hate the use of v-sync it's best to use 2x previous gen flagship gpu's to maintain healthy frames for gaming. 780ti's and 290x's seem to maintain frames close to/around 60 in all demanding titles thus far. I imagine sli 970's would easily do this as well.
 

Mauler87

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I also noticed that the monitor's manual has a vertical refresh up to 80hz? cannot confirm this and definitely don't want people feeling like they have to overclock to test. I will be doing this at multiple resolutions when I receive mine, just a shame Aus is short on stock at the moment due to staticice posting it's low prices.
 

dtimelord

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Hi all, I wanted to share my experience with the BDM4065UC after using it for 3 days now. My previous monitor was a 30" Dell 3008WFP (ccfl 2560x1600 ips). After reading all the posts on PWM here, I got a bit afraid the screen would be flickering like crazy, but I don't notice it at all tbh! (I set brightness to 75%) The blacks are so much better than my previous screen, distance on desk is about 80cm from my eyes and I like the size. Screen seems responsive, also played some games, scaling at 1080p works good without noticable lag (but I have to admit I'm no pro fps gamer ;) Also viewing angle is great. And of course the pixels.. there are soo many :))

It's all very subjective of course, but for my use (programming, some shells, surfing and a bit of gaming) it's perfect :)
 

kache

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I also noticed that the monitor's manual has a vertical refresh up to 80hz? cannot confirm this and definitely don't want people feeling like they have to overclock to test. I will be doing this at multiple resolutions when I receive mine, just a shame Aus is short on stock at the moment due to staticice posting it's low prices.

Nice find, it would be pretty awesome if the monitor was overclockable to 80hz at 4k! :eek:
 

Seinfeld

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The reviewer doesn't really state anything we didn't know already, and was mostly superficial about the features and the experience with the monitor rather than mentioning any technical detail or tests. He didn't really mention any negatives besides the obvious (large size, poor stand, glossy reflections, high price).

You are wrong about price, he said this monitor is worth the price.
 

Mauler87

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Nice find, it would be pretty awesome if the monitor was overclockable to 80hz at 4k! :eek:

What I meant is the panel refresh, dunno if the board inside it can handle that throughput :p I'm happy to void my warranty to find out when I get it.
 

finrep

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Well, the monitor is about 6500 kr in Sweden now, that's with 25% VAT. That works out to about 827 dollars as of writing, if you take out the VAT.

I've often found, however, that a better rule is to divide(or multiply) by ten. If a GPU is going for 330 dollars in the US it is often found for 3300'ish kr in Sweden. The same has been my experience for monitors when I crosschecked from places like newegg to prisjakt(our price comparison tool which basically everyone uses here). So a more accurate reading would be something like 650 dollars if it would have been sold in the US. That's pretty decent.

Someone asked for the Nordic Hardware review. They do say a few more things than other reviewers. In the accompanying video, he compares using the monitor to VR(they have tested the DK2 and the Crescent version) because he feels the gaming immersion is just second to none.

By the way, the reviewer said he had a 32" 4K display before and he now feels he simply can't go back, so it's not like he went from a 1080p TN panel or whatever. There is a substantial difference even from a 32" 4K panel.

He also spoke of input lag and they tested the CoD games and he felt it wasn't a problem. All in all, I'm pretty excited by this monitor. The only thing I'm waiting on is a model with 1 ms and 100+ Hz, as well as better GPUs. Once those three conditions are in, I'm getting one and multiple GPUs. This is the future.
 
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