Paypal Changes?

tangoseal

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This is tech news because, well its paypal. Secondly I think it goes here because of how many of us at the site use this tech to pay each other etc...
Mods if this dont belong please move it however I have no idea where else this would go.

What in the hell does this even mean? Now that many of us at [H] use Paypal for transactions what does this crap even mean?

This makes absolutely no sense to me at all? Any of you attorneys out there care to slap us with some knowledge??

If my paypal is a business account and I sell something here to someone and they use a personal account that means I cant accept their money. And if someone has a personal account and want to buy something from a business, hell lets just say I wanted to buy a CPU heatsink from FrozenCPU, now I can't buy from their business account with my personal account? Is this the death of Paypal or is this some seriously poorly worded shit salad and that person who wrote this needs to be fired immediately?

Thanks

1656270118308.png
 

toast0

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Like they said, looks like they're trying to make sure they get their 3% on transactions with business accounts. I think they've been ramping up to this for a while; IIRC there wasn't always a % fee for businesses accepting a payment with a paypal balance or ach, but they added that, and now they're enforcing it.
 

MixManSC

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My take is they are just making sure that businesses will always get fees for receiving money. I know a lot of sellers, businesses included, encourage people to pay using the "friends and family" method which puts the fees on the sender. Honestly surprised that was not already a policy by PayPal.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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This is tech news because, well its paypal. Secondly I think it goes here because of how many of us at the site use this tech to pay each other etc...
Mods if this dont belong please move it however I have no idea where else this would go.

What in the hell does this even mean? Now that many of us at [H] use Paypal for transactions what does this crap even mean?

This makes absolutely no sense to me at all? Any of you attorneys out there care to slap us with some knowledge??

If my paypal is a business account and I sell something here to someone and they use a personal account that means I cant accept their money. And if someone has a personal account and want to buy something from a business, hell lets just say I wanted to buy a CPU heatsink from FrozenCPU, now I can't buy from their business account with my personal account? Is this the death of Paypal or is this some seriously poorly worded shit salad and that person who wrote this needs to be fired immediately?

Thanks

View attachment 486780

If I had to guess they are just trying to cut back of fee avoidance by people sending payments as personal payments.

Seems minor to me.
 

pututu

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It's normal for most companies to rake it as much profit as possible legally, if challenged in court, by closing or eliminating any loop-holes.
 

Nebulous

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Welp since I have a personal pp account, I won't be able to shop at ebay retailers and that's like 90% of my shopping. Guess I won't be spending any more money now. Hey I can save money now and that means I can get a new 3090.....oh wait...
 

Zepher

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Welp since I have a personal pp account, I won't be able to shop at ebay retailers and that's like 90% of my shopping. Guess I won't be spending any more money now. Hey I can save money now and that means I can get a new 3090.....oh wait...
That is not what it means, it means you can't send friends and family payments to users that have a business Paypal account, you have to use the standard paypal goods and services transaction, like you normally would when buying on eBay.
My primary Paypal is a business account which means I have to pay the 2.99% fee when friends send me money next month.
 

MixManSC

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Welp since I have a personal pp account, I won't be able to shop at ebay retailers and that's like 90% of my shopping. Guess I won't be spending any more money now. Hey I can save money now and that means I can get a new 3090.....oh wait...

Not at all. You will make PayPal payments just as you always have..... You can still pay businesses, and you can still pay individuals. When using PayPal itself to send money, like buying something from an individual here on FS/FT, you get an option to send the money as "for goods and services" or "friends and family". When you send as "friends and family" and you want to send them $25, then PayPal will charge you about a dollar more to cover fees (and the recipient gets $25) whereas if you send them the $25 as "for good and services" then you only pay $25 but the recipient only gets about $24 since PayPal will take a buck for their fees. Amounts for the fees are just an example.... Also when sending "for good and services", if the recipient scams you or the item is broken or something, you have some protection offered from PayPal. If you buy something from an individual and send it as "friends and family" and they scam you, tough luck.
 

Varmint

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Like they said, looks like they're trying to make sure they get their 3% on transactions with business accounts. I think they've been ramping up to this for a while; IIRC there wasn't always a % fee for businesses accepting a payment with a paypal balance or ach, but they added that, and now they're enforcing it.

Is there a fee-free alternative, does Venmo charge a fee for business transactions?

Seems like most people have moved from PayPal to Venmo.
 

MixManSC

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Is there a fee-free alternative, does Venmo charge a fee for business transactions?

Seems like most people have moved from PayPal to Venmo.

Not really really sure. I mean what would be the business model or incentive for a company to develop an entire payment platform without any sort of transaction fees (they have to make money somehow)? All of the credit card carriers also charge fees to businesses for accepting a card too (usually a small flat transaction charge of maybe .10 plus between 2-3% of the transaction). An online payment processor has to deal with that same thing as well on CC funded transactions.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Yeah, I see this as a complete non issue. It's simply an attempt to clamp down on those abusing the system.

If you do business transactions you owe PayPal a fee. It's part of the terms and conditions. If you have been avoiding those fees by having customers categorize business transactions as "Friends and Family" transactions then you have been abusing the system, and PayPal would like you to stop.

It is a slight inconvenience for those who run businesses that use PayPal and who also accept money from legitimate friends and Family on the same account. They will be forced to have both a personal and a business account, but it is what it is. People have been abusing the system, so PayPal took action. This is why we can't have nice things.

There is really nothing to see here. Movie along.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Is there a fee-free alternative, does Venmo charge a fee for business transactions?

Seems like most people have moved from PayPal to Venmo.

Is that really the case? I've never used Venmo. It seemed stupid to use a new account/app when I already had one.

Also, if there is a choice between a website and using an app on my phone, I will always choose the website, 100% of the time. Apps are just an excuse to collect data and spy on you.

I've also had this really stubborn commitment since about ~2016 or so, that while I'll continue using what I already have, I will not download any new apps or create any new online accounts no matter what. Thus far it has been about 6 years and I have succeeded. Thus, no Venmo (and no Epic Games Store, No Origin, No Microsoft account, nothing like that)
 

Darunion

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I wont deal with any business if they ask for friends and family payment, you also waive buyer protection by doing so. They may be just trying to avoid fees but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth asking me to pay in a way that provides me no protection. My 2cents. I kind of agree with this move.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Venmo is owned by Paypal.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Yeah, after Paypal bought Venmo in 2012 it made absolutely no sense to me that they continued to maintain two separate systems that do exactly the same thing.

I don't understand why they didn't just merge them. It would drastically have reduced overhead.
 

toast0

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Yeah, after Paypal bought Venmo in 2012 it made absolutely no sense to me that they continued to maintain two separate systems that do exactly the same thing.

I don't understand why they didn't just merge them. It would drastically have reduced overhead.
If they merged them, all of the people who hate Paypal, but never noticed they own Venmo would leave Venmo ;)
 

sleepeeg3

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I didn't realize Paypal haters were a thing.
There used to be a website "paypalsucks.com" for that exact reason. That's how much they were loathed. PayPal sucks. Here are a few reasons:
1. Automatically refunding a buyer's money when the buyer lies about the item with no recourse for the seller.
2. Arbitrarily confiscating a seller's money until it arrives at the buyer.
Is there a fee-free alternative, does Venmo charge a fee for business transactions?

Seems like most people have moved from PayPal to Venmo.
Venmo = PayPal, as has been said. Venmo charges a 3% fee for credit card transactions and no fee for bank transactions.

If you do a decent number of transactions/month, merchant accounts will typically cost you the same as a PayPal account and you will have more control over buyer fraud.

If they merged them, all of the people who hate Paypal, but never noticed they own Venmo would leave Venmo ;)
Exactly.

People complain about things, but get screwed by acceptance of the status quo. Quit accepting these crap services and force these companies to work for you. The reason they do this, is because people aren't willing to look for alternatives.
 

Endgame

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Have you ever used Paypal?
I use it a ton. It is drastically more convenient to use a single payment system instead of having to deal with PayPal + Venmo + Zelle + whatever crappy system you want to use today.

If someone wants money from me for something like buying the t-ball coach a present / whatever, they better take PayPal, else they don’t get money.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Have you ever used Paypal?

I've been using it almost weekly for almost 20 years.

I've never had a problem. I find it convenient, and for buying stuff from buyers you don't know nothing else out there comes even close.

If they are a small seller, and don't take PayPal or ask you to send PayPal as "friends and family", that's when you know you are probably dealing with a scammer.
 
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Eulogy

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If they are a small seller, and don't take PayPal or ask you to send PayPal as "friends and family", that's when you know you are probably dealing with a scammer.
So, basically the vast majority of sellers on this forum who all ask for F&F (which, is against ToS).
 

Zarathustra[H]

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So, basically the vast majority of sellers on this forum who all ask for F&F (which, is against ToS).

Well, if you know them and trust them (from years of communicating with them on the forums) it's not a stretch to call them friends. I mean, if everyone on your "friends list" on Facebook is a "friend" why not? (Though I do think we've diluted the F word a bit in the social media age)

If you don't, well, then that could be a problem.

Personally I've sold many things on these forums, and I've never asked anyone to F&F me. (on a couple of occasions people just did, I guess I am a known enough quantity on the forums that people don't think I'll try to cheat them) but I've never asked for it.
 

Varmint

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I didn't realize Paypal haters were a thing.

I think it’s from the past, I hated them 15 years ago or something when they did a lot of sketchy stuff. It’s been fine for a while. I don’t use it much since EBay stopped using PayPal.
 

Varmint

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Are you sure about that?

I've only ever used Paypal on eBay, and I completed three transactions on eBay just this month.

I'm not sure I'd trust any other method.

Of course you can buy stuff on Ebay with Paypal, but you no longer have to, I just use a credit card. I mostly sell, and the money comes direct from Ebay, not through Paypal.
 

tangoseal

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Well, if you know them and trust them (from years of communicating with them on the forums) it's not a stretch to call them friends. I mean, if everyone on your "friends list" on Facebook is a "friend" why not? (Though I do think we've diluted the F word a bit in the social media age)

If you don't, well, then that could be a problem.

Personally I've sold many things on these forums, and I've never asked anyone to F&F me. (on a couple of occasions people just did, I guess I am a known enough quantity on the forums that people don't think I'll try to cheat them) but I've never asked for it.
Ive done f&f with Z a few times. You gotta choose your trust relationships.
 

Jon855

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I think we need to realize the significance of one poster in this thread. Been a member for nearly ten years and this was the very first post s/he made. Sorry for the off-topic but that caught my attention...
Haven't used paypal in a long time besides some promo, been using Cash App more often between friends.
And from the looks of it you might add in HardForum to that :D

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Meeho

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I use it a ton. It is drastically more convenient to use a single payment system instead of having to deal with PayPal + Venmo + Zelle + whatever crappy system you want to use today.

If someone wants money from me for something like buying the t-ball coach a present / whatever, they better take PayPal, else they don’t get money.
While understandable, this is also the reason we don't have better competition and improvement.
 

Endgame

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While understandable, this is also the reason we don't have better competition and improvement.
It’s free and fast for me to sling money around in PayPal, so I’m not sure where I would get improvement beyond another service paying me to use it.
 

Jagger100

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Paypal's main popularity is as an anonymizer for your credit card. You often can get disposable CC #'s from your CC company or your CC company may offer their own anonymizer to accomplish something similar.
 

pgaster

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Paypal can suck.
I was just recently watching Steve from Gamers Nexus going through the collapse of Artesian Builds. The CEO for some reason was paying people via Paypal. Then near the end he claimed some of those payments were fraud to get the money back. Paypal went along with that and pulled the money from people, screwing them over.
Probably fraud, starting at 10:45
 
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