HBM may be marginally more expensive than GDDR6 but as Samsung is ramping up production of HBM as it does better with real time analysis on sensor data and other things its costs are going down, mean while decreasing production of GDDR6 is bringing its prices up so the cost difference may not actually be terribly different but due to the nature of the spec it does limit memory configurations making it harder to get into specific price segments. That said, honestly "only matching" the second fastest card on the market at stock speeds isn't something I would consider bad. I mean who out there who owns a 1080TI is jumping up and down saying how badly they need the 2080TI compare that to the people out there who are running say 980's or older, looking for an upgrade and weeping at the cost of the 2080's if nothing else this will force a price shift and bring up some nice bundle packages come March.

It would only maybe force the NVIDIA prices down if it was $100 cheaper but it's not.
AMD is underwhelming. But I think [H] showed Freesync worked just as well as G-Sync and RTX cards are way overpriced. The rest of what he said I think are hard truths some people are having a hard time accepting.
It's really interesting what AMD has been doing on marketing.

Why would you spend millions in brand development and trying to reach the consumer with a whole new line of hardware and naming nomenclatures, when you can just get close to your competitor's marketing strategies and always with a slightly lower price.

In CPU naming, R3, R5 and R7 was pretty obvious since the beginning, so was their motherboard chipset portfolio , but now I've just realized why the change in GPU naming. Instead of R9, just use the consistency of the GTX gaming lineup and make the Radeon version of it.

Not only it makes easier for the consumer to identify the price point and make the correct comparison when deciding their purchase (r5 vs i5, GTX vs RX), but also they force Intel and NVIDIA to step up their marketing ( more expenses for them), it's brilliant.

Dr. Su using a leather jacket when presenting a GPU is not a coincidence

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The first thing I thought of when reading those comments was [H] blind nV / AMD article. Also, if freesync is so crap, why are major TV manufacturers now including it in some of the higher end models?

TBH I am a little disappointed in AMD's new card. I'm ready to move on from my 1080Ti SLI setup and I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a 2080Ti.
The first thing I thought of when reading those comments was [H] blind nV / AMD article. Also, if freesync is so crap, why are major TV manufacturers now including it in some of the higher end models?

Because he's talking out of his ass .:)
It would only maybe force the NVIDIA prices down if it was $100 cheaper but it's not.
But nVidia padded their pricing, got the early adopters at the higher price so they can afford to price theirs lower than AMD's at this point to make theirs the clear choice AMD with the smaller margins from their cards can't as easily afford to drop the prices so they will probably offer gaming bundles to prop up the value of the card purchase. In either event come March we should see some changes that will only benefit us all.
I'm still waiting on a mid-range announcement from AMD. The $699 isn't going to work with my budget. I'm wanting something for $400 or less.

Me either, So...were left with a Vega 56, you can get one at Newegg right now for $332. Powercolor Red Dragon model.
Don't forget dlss......that still hasnt made an appearance in a game yet.

Yeah, but this Nvidia launch was way too much like we've been seeing from "AAA" game studios recently. Promise a bunch of crap, launch a buggy product that doesn't exactly work as advertised just to meet a launch date, and then patch functionality so it's launch ready 4 months after it actually launched.

Yes, to be fair, Nvidia doesn't have control over how game programmers make their stuff, but they're also asking people to invest a lot of money on what is essentially a leap of faith that the product they are buying today is going to ultimately deliver the features that they want to use.
^ Yup to me that mean's it's competitive. When Vega came out I don't think he said anything because he didn't see it as anywhere as competitive. Feel like Nvidia is getting bit hard by the current market down turn. The 2080ti is selling out, but the rest of the cards seem to be well stocked (first time in years haven't needed a in-stock tracker). Nvidia as a company should do well, but as a stock they could be in real trouble the next few quarters.
I must be the only person who looks at side by side videos of RTX On Vs Off and can't tell the difference. Something about shadows...whatever. More frames please.
Haha, what a little bitch...Competition releases an updated competitive chip and all he can do is trashtalk before even testing it. Nvidia has the performance crown for sure at the top, so why shit all over the launch of the smaller player? Dick move by Leather Daddy, I guess its par for the course at this point though, his ego was hurt, so he had to come out swingin'. As with Vega, 7 is gonna suck the power down, looking forward to some liquid cooled reviews coming up, I wonder what it will clock to under a block? 1900-2000 Mhz sure would be nice!
That's not even a word, Huang, and someone tell him his jacket is "underwhelming" too.

Even though I do love ray tracing and it's future implications for VR.
That high-end software pack adds some value. Doesn't matter to me but to many it might.
Stated 25% improvement at the same power sounds good except when one remembers Vegas power #'s, and doesn't give me much hope in OC'ing headroom.
Does 16GB give any clear advantages over a 8GB 2080? Maybe in VR cases?
Not a very nice way to treat a family member. Say something nice, or don't say it at all. He should be proud of her accomplishments. I liked Lisa's response to Ray Tracing though, basically saying "Were not going to rush into anything like our competitor did". "We need the entire ecosystem on par Software / Hardware before we release it to the public". Wise decision Lisa.
What a class act.

I will not labor to make a man like that any wealthier.

Allowing FreeSync monitors to work on Nvidia cards seemed unusual of move from the Nvidia that I've read about in at least the past ten years.

Something seemed self preserving that move, just to see AMD drop a 7nm refresh of their current architecture and it can flex its muscles evenly with the 2080.

Just to see the equivelant of a "Why won't they leave Nvidia aloooone!!" CEO response. It may sound like bravado, but why bother, if your competition ain't shit, you don't give them any form of extensive lip service.
Also the RTX 2060 is pretty underwhelming in every way. The move from the GTX 960 to the GTX 1060 was a way better deal than the move from the GTX 1060 to RTX 2060 will ever be.

True for the whole of the RTX range really. Pricing is insane, and no articles really talk about it other than a few lines about "Oh, pricing isn't too good, 4.5/5". Pricing is shocking, has been for years, and is in crazy territory now.
You know what, I might still get one for the HTPC/VR setup since that rig is still rocking a 1080. Will wait for the reviews.
AMD is underwhelming. But I think [H] showed Freesync worked just as well as G-Sync and RTX cards are way overpriced. The rest of what he said I think are hard truths some people are having a hard time accepting.

Nope, and your opinion is wrong. :) :rolleyes:
Saying that the worlds first 7nm GPU is underwhelming is pretty funny considering Nvidia's recent issues with Ray Tracing.

To be fair to NVIDIA, the issue with ray tracing isnt the hardware, its lazy ass developers.
You know what this Jensen Huang guy is pissing me off with his shit. FPS tanking technology for years, spouting bs about free-sync, calling performance before it is released. I'm good on buying Nvidia products he can keep all the "tech" for himself.
I mean, I am a little underwhelmed as well. All AMD are doing with the VII is continuing the price curve that nVidia has started. 2080 levels of performance for slightly less than 2080 pricing isn't exactly getting me hot under the collar. Sure, 16GB is nice, but it is missing the RT and DLSS kind of value-adds. I would have been far more impressed with some disruptive pricing. Alas.
We would not have seen a 7nm consumer Vega otherwise.

This is probably “overstock” from a minimum order of MI50 cards. Where AMD has to make at least some 5-digit number of them at once to get economies of scale... and AMD would much rather sell them through instead of sit on them.

I think the VII is a bad graphics card (same for RTX cards sans the 2080ti (highest performing GPU almost always has a place))... but for people like me who refuse to buy Nvidia, but want higher performance, it is an acceptable card.

For anyone who does Work that runs on ROCm/AMD and needs FP64 this is an awesome card. For the dozen people, maybe two dozen?

As for Freesync... cheap Freesync monitors are cheap and have issues!! Expensive Freesync monitors are fine (least mine two are).

I would prefer even the cheap $125 freesync monitor have a larger refresh range, and/or have fewer issues.... but it is miles ahead of no variable refresh rate at all!
I'm personally not arsed about RT/DLSS either, I just want as much rasterisation performance as possible for my money. But objectively speaking they do add value, it's just that value ranges from "Nothing" to "Must own" depending on the person.

Frankly, as much as it hurts to say, depending on the actual retail prices (vs the MSRP), the RTX 2080 actually is better value. If this came in at $600 it would be a much more interesting launch for like-minded people. $500 and the internet would be on fire.
Everybody loves lower prices but at those numbers that wouldn’t be “better value” that would be total market disruption. A 2080 at $600 would put the 2060 in the < $200 mark which would make every previous gen component completely unsellable. NVidia’s partners would shit a brick, not to mention the fact given the yields on the 2000 series and their die sizes paired with the costs with GDDR6 I’m not even sure they would be breaking even at that point.
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He thinks the $350 2060 is a great deal, and I have to disagree with him. A $250 2060, that would have been a real deal. 6GB VRAM for $350 cards is ridiculous and insulting. An 8GB 2060 at $300, that would have been awesome. $350 for an 8GB version, still good. BUt I'm sorry 6GB really limits the lifespan of this card.
I’m not convinced that there is room to do either of those and keep margins up.

At $350, Nvidia Is probably selling the die to AIBs for 130-160 dollars. Probably costs 40-50 dollars to make and package.
Best case as is, it is just over their overall margins.

This. 100%.

I'm not all that worried about RT/DLSS as value-adds. I am seriously worried about the shifting price curve and erosion of value. I would have rather seen a card that competes versus a 2060 for sub-$300, than chasing the halo products. Unless you can claim the halo crown that's a losing endeavor every time.

Why is everyone shocked prices are going up?
Jensen said he wanted to increase the ASP of GeForce cards 50-100%+ not even two years ago.
To be fair to NVIDIA, the issue with ray tracing isnt the hardware, its lazy ass developers.

The issue with Ray Tracing isn't an issue the technique is great!, Nvidia made it the issue by pushing it out the door before they had the software side ironed out and yes, developers on board. So, I guess, in the end, it is Nvidia's fault for pushing it too soon. They counted their chickens before the eggs had time to hatch.
AMD has 2 years to get ray tracing. Next gen cards from nvidia will have way better rtx. Then everyone go its the card that the 2080 should of been.
I predict ray tracing still won't be viable in 2021. People with a $1000 card have no interest in running a game at 1080p.
Oh god what a putz.

I have a 1080Ti that I paid a fortune for. I won't be buying a new card for years. But when I do, if performance is similar, this type of immaturity is what would make me go AMD.

That's what it is - immaturity. You can speak about your competition with indiference, even give them some respect - and then rave about how much more awesome your products are.

But not this tool. He's an embarrassment.