NVIDIA Bans Reviewer for Concentrating on Rasterization Instead of Ray Tracing

SPARTAN VI

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The irony, is hardware unboxed was actually pretty complimentary. Hell from the LTT video above, Nvidia actually used quotes from HUB for their DLSS marketing material.
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:ROFLMAO:
 

rushaoz

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You haven't watched a single Hardware Unboxed review, have you?
Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??

I suppose RT results will be okay to toss back in HU's performance metrics once AMD catches up. 🙄

I see no one giving me a proper reason as to why ray tracing, a feature that AMD themselves wants to get in on and is going to soon enough, is being omitted from HU's future GPU reviews.
 

LukeTbk

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Crossed a major line of journalism? This is the standard of journalism. It's a business. It isn't church, and journalism typically isn't ethical. It's mostly paid advertising. Don't let journalists tell you otherwise - their livelihood depends on it.
That is not standard of journalism, modern click driving "journalism" is somewhat new, accepting a free sample from a company was not something any journalist would have ever accepted in the past, specially if it came with NDA/guideline/embargos to sign etc....

Video game coverage (that was born a lot in publication fully financed by video games/video games hardware ads, a recipe that made sure it would be incredibly hard to not become biased at is roots) was built on the ground up with zero journalistic practice because it was not perceived to by something serious by anyone involved (the reader or the publisher) at the infancy of video games, being a fan was seen has a plus and not a minus and obviously nothing on Youtube was considered serious when youtube started.

The major line crossed was giving free sample and special access to people with conditions and them accepting those and giving any power to any company that can use the menace of removing those privileges (implicit or explicit or even just the never said possibility), that the line no one in the industry should have ever accepted if they wanted it to be journalism and not reviewers, they didn't wanted to because they wanted to be a form of advertising and to make targeted ads money. Removing that special privilege no journalist could accept to start with, that was crossing a reviewer world line not a journalistic one, they were already out of the journalist zone.

You can try to be a superhuman and think you will be one of the very few that will never influenced by the facts you have advertiser from the field and built relationship with the company you are supposed to review, but that something that must avoided has much as possible (the press will accept to work with the military to cover conflict because of how hard it would be otherwise, but that must a last resort).

I doubt many people in that industry went to journalist school and developed journalist practice in a serious institution before going into that field, so when they look around and compare them self they are not influenced by basic journalistic ethic either and need to compete with people that do not follow them and pay zero price for it.

And needless to say here, we are just talking about CPU/Gpus review for gamers it very much OK to not apply journalistic standard here, like for pro sports talking heads, I do not think anyone expect it and specially want that level of ethics in that fields, just a not over the top incest between the companies and the press.
 
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LukeTbk

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I was a journalist. What you're saying is completely untrue, and your opinion. We had propositions and bribes thrown at us all the time. Never took them once.
Propositions and bribes is a subjectives affair and will be more subtle than that (people involved will not consider it a bribe at all most of the time when making the transaction).

Say for example you do hardware reviews and an hardware companies would accept to have engineer give you an interview about a new product architecture, do you pass that bribe and pass the opportunity to have nice detailed content ?
An hardware companies would ask you to have an hardware related ads on your website/video, say a new PC cases or monitor, do you pass that bribe and pass the opportunity to finance your operation that way ?
An hardware reseller offer you to have special link you would have on your website/video comments, do you pass that bribe and pass the opportunity to finance your operation that way ?
An hardware maker want to give/lend you products for free shipping included so you can review them, do you pass that bribe and pass the opportunity to have nice reviews when an embargo lift ?
An hardware maker make nice presentation to a conference and give launch/alcohol, some reviewer travel are paid, do they refuse.

Where you put the line, will tend to move a lot and in soft belly journalist it is rare that they can afford to put it at a really, no we will have no personal/professional relationship of any kind with the products (or movies) that we will have to reviews.
 
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FrgMstr

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ON TOPIC PLEASE. We have plenty of other threads to argue about GPU features.
 

Derangel

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Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??

I suppose RT results will be okay to toss back in HU's performance metrics once AMD catches up. 🙄

I see no one giving me a proper reason as to why ray tracing, a feature that AMD themselves wants to get in on and is going to soon enough, is being omitted from HU's future GPU reviews.

It's pretty obvious that HUB isn't the one with a hidden bias here.

HUB has talked, at length, about DLSS and RT. They were one of the first ones to make a video on DLSS progression in games, praising it when it finally got to a point where it could be praised. They've done multiple videos on ray tracing. Your own, VERY OBVIOUS, bias blinds you to anything expect what you want to see.

The reason HUB didn't focus on RT in their early 30-series coverage is because they asked their community what they should focus on first and the community, overwhelming, said they wanted rasterization. However, they still covered RT performance later. Hell, they had a RT video on the 3080 out all of two days after their 3080 review was published. I should also point out that they liked both the 3080 and 3070 (and they covered both RT and DLSS in their 3070 review).

In short: You are full of shit.
 

rushaoz

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It's pretty obvious that HUB isn't the one with a hidden bias here.

HUB has talked, at length, about DLSS and RT. They were one of the first ones to make a video on DLSS progression in games, praising it when it finally got to a point where it could be praised. They've done multiple videos on ray tracing. Your own, VERY OBVIOUS, bias blinds you to anything expect what you want to see.

The reason HUB didn't focus on RT in their early 30-series coverage is because they asked their community what they should focus on first and the community, overwhelming, said they wanted rasterization. However, they still covered RT performance later. Hell, they had a RT video on the 3080 out all of two days after their 3080 review was published. I should also point out that they liked both the 3080 and 3070 (and they covered both RT and DLSS in their 3070 review).

In short: You are full of shit.

Good job side stepping my question. This is about ray tracing and HU's decision to omit it from FUTURE GPU reviews. Not about DLSS. Not about anything else. So I'll ask one more time before completely ignoring you from now on; What legitimate reason is there to omit ray tracing results from future GPU reviews when, despite it not being fully adopted by the entire industry yet, is still a valid selling point to the product?

And no the community isn't a valid reason. We're talking about the same community who decided in a poll that benchmarking Ampere with Zen 2 would be a good idea.. something even Steve himself backpedaled on after his benchmark findings resulted in lower performance when compared to other publications that used a 10900k instead.
 

LukeTbk

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Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??
At least they are very open about being AMD fanboys (which is a plus to disclose it if you are).... looking at their video list do they ? I think I am mistaken with an other group of reviewer.....
 
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Derangel

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Good job side stepping my question. This is about ray tracing and HU's decision to omit it from FUTURE GPU reviews. Not about DLSS. Not about anything else. So I'll ask one more time before completely ignoring you from now on; What legitimate reason is there to omit ray tracing results from future GPU reviews when, despite it not being fully adopted by the entire industry yet, is still a valid selling point to the product?

And no the community isn't a valid reason. We're talking about the same community who decided in a poll that benchmarking Ampere with Zen 2 would be a good idea.. something even Steve himself backpedaled on after his benchmark findings resulted in lower performance when compared to other publications that used a 10900k instead.

They still cover RT. It doesn't matter if it's in the main review or in a separate, more in-depth, video. I don't see them saying they won't cover RT in the future. They even covered RT in their 3060 Ti review.
 

hesho

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Good job side stepping my question. This is about ray tracing and HU's decision to omit it from FUTURE GPU reviews. Not about DLSS. Not about anything else. So I'll ask one more time before completely ignoring you from now on; What legitimate reason is there to omit ray tracing results from future GPU reviews when, despite it not being fully adopted by the entire industry yet, is still a valid selling point to the product?

And no the community isn't a valid reason. We're talking about the same community who decided in a poll that benchmarking Ampere with Zen 2 would be a good idea.. something even Steve himself backpedaled on after his benchmark findings resulted in lower performance when compared to other publications that used a 10900k instead.


and what future gpu reviews does HU not have ray tracing benchmarks? I'm really curious if u have actually seen any of HU's videos...
 

ChadD

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The stupidest thing about all of this is that everyone already knows nVidia is better at RT and actually has a DLSS feature. It makes no sense to do this, especially when HWUB didn't even snub these features and in fact did separate pieces focusing on them.
Ya but they failed to state the approved line, "AMD is behind, and AMD is lacking"
 

ManofGod

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What the hell? That is shameful Nvidia, you know damn well that Raytracing, as cool as it is, is still a niche used only for screenshots and videos but turned off for actual gaming. At least for most people, FPS and high resolution is still king, eye candy the distant second.

Wait, is there any other version of Nvidia than Shameful Nvidia? ;)
 

Krenum

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No.

This is simply an idiotic move by a tremendously arrogant PR department. You don't set the barn on fire because the house is burning down.
Oh, I agree totally. I'm not discounting or defending their tremendously shitty business practices at all.
 

LukeTbk

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Today video:


Do make the situation just look ridiculous without having the details ( I imagine the fault was to ever publish any relative comparison that didn't include dlss performance or raytracing image quality) in a piece of media.

They a bit of a strange analysis too

With DSSL on at 1440p Without RT the 3070 has 92% of the average FPS than the 2080 TI and 91% of the 1% low FPS
With DSSL on at 1440p With RT the 3070 has 92% of the average FPS of the 2080 TI and 90% of the 1% low FPS

They state that the 11 VRAM is superior for this game for raytracing.... saying they do about the same performance without and start to have a significant difference with RT. feel like it is the subjective being above 60 fps vs under 60 fps that make the difference look big in one and not in the other even if they are relatively about exactly the same. Specially that went you had a lot of RT and dip performance more the 3070 get close to the 2080TI than farther away just a couple of slide later and that once you get to ultra RT they perform virtually identically.
 
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Bigbacon

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Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??

I suppose RT results will be okay to toss back in HU's performance metrics once AMD catches up. 🙄

I see no one giving me a proper reason as to why ray tracing, a feature that AMD themselves wants to get in on and is going to soon enough, is being omitted from HU's future GPU reviews.

wait? since when? I watch them all the time and I'm not finding this AMD bias.
 
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Hardware Unboxed should continue to work with our add-in card partners to secure GPUs to review. Of course you will still have access to obtain pre-release drivers and press materials, that won't change. We are open to revisiting this in the future should your editorial direction change.

Brian Del Rizzo
Director of Global PR, GeForce

What a passive aggressive bitch. He can't even man up and directly say Nvidia is not sending you cards for review.
 

TurboGLH

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Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??

I suppose RT results will be okay to toss back in HU's performance metrics once AMD catches up. 🙄

I see no one giving me a proper reason as to why ray tracing, a feature that AMD themselves wants to get in on and is going to soon enough, is being omitted from HU's future GPU reviews.

Maybe the grand total of 23 games in the last two years that have RT. It's the same with DLSS, up to 25 games after 2 years. Rasterization is far more of a concern to gamers today, and seemingly for the next few years at least.

Which of these titles should we be focusing on in reviews?

 

Meeho

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Have you? Because anyone watches and has been watching them long enough can easily tell they have a bias towards AMD. Nothing wrong with having a bias. Everyone's a fanboy of something. But when you change your editorial methods to EXCLUDE something one camp can do much better than the other, what does that tell you??

I suppose RT results will be okay to toss back in HU's performance metrics once AMD catches up. 🙄

I see no one giving me a proper reason as to why ray tracing, a feature that AMD themselves wants to get in on and is going to soon enough, is being omitted from HU's future GPU reviews.

Good job side stepping my question. This is about ray tracing and HU's decision to omit it from FUTURE GPU reviews. Not about DLSS. Not about anything else. So I'll ask one more time before completely ignoring you from now on; What legitimate reason is there to omit ray tracing results from future GPU reviews when, despite it not being fully adopted by the entire industry yet, is still a valid selling point to the product?
Please provide a link that proves your claims, since HU said they won't be putting too much emphasis on RT until it improves in performance, not that they won't be covering it at all.
 
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kac77

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Maybe the grand total of 23 games in the last two years that have RT. It's the same with DLSS, up to 25 games after 2 years. Rasterization is far more of a concern to gamers today, and seemingly for the next few years at least.

Which of these titles should we be focusing on in reviews?

And this is the problem I have with people thinking that RT should be front and center. Reviewers still test Direct X 11 for Christ's sake. There's easily over 100 games that support Direct X12. Yet we should give more weight to RT with 25 games? That's insane and doesn't make ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER.
 

Ranulfo

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Linus pointed out one of the biggest problems now for reviewers: anything anyone says positively about Nvidia products will now be subject to accusations of coercion or corruption. Short of Rtings or Consumer Reports purchasing stuff for review, everyone will be accused of being on Nvidia’s payroll, or under their boot.

That was a good point but also was my one real gripe with Linus' 40 minute rant. He seems to have forgotten about GPP and he admits defending Nvidia in the past. Which is fine to a point but after GPP they all should have seen this coming. I don't ultimately trust most in the hardware review media because of GPP and the un-answered question of did these guys sign on to the 5 year Great RTX Leap Forward plan of Nvidia's NDA's to get their day one review samples.

The best part of Linus' rant though was not his beeped cussing but when they put up that archive web shot of Nvidia RTX marketing quoting Hardware Unboxed on the greatness of RTX.
 
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How do you know which one is more evil? Maybe Nvidia is more reckless than the others with their shitty antics that end up being exposed. AMD and Intel also have their dirty histories and we do not know what truly goes on behind the scenes in any of these companies. You can't trust any of them.
My mother always did say to fear the devil you don't know instead of the devil you do.
 

Ready4Dis

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Well, haven't bought an nvidia card since GPP and this hasn't changed it for me. Honestly, they have better cards in general.. it's like, we're ahead and can sell our cards on their merits, or we can Best case: try to destroy our only real competition so we can be a monopoly and end up having to split, or worst case: it's not successful and we piss of a lot of people for no reason. Seems like a win win! Funny as most of my PC's used to have nvidia hardware in them because they were the better option, but the constant anti-consumer stuff just turns me off from them. Not like this will matter to their bottom line just like GPP didn't. With cards the way they are, they will all sell out regardless, but that won't stop me personally from voting with my wallet.
 

MaZa

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Wait, is there any other version of Nvidia than Shameful Nvidia? ;)

Honestly, we have been in the situation of having just one GPU company with cards that are good enough for enthusiasts for so many years that I sometimes forget what kind of company we are actually dealing with. Hell if it wasn't for this thread I would not have remembered the GPP fiasco either. 😔
 

erek

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Honestly, we have been in the situation of having just one GPU company with cards that are good enough for enthusiasts for so many years that I sometimes forget what kind of company we are actually dealing with. Hell if it wasn't for this thread I would not have remembered the GPP fiasco either. 😔
https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1337885741389471745

Hardware Unboxed

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BIG NEWS I just received an email from Nvidia apologizing for the previous email & they've now walked everything back. This thing has been a roller coaster ride over the past few days. I’d like to thank everyone who supported us, obviously a huge thank you to
@linusgsebastian
 
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Meeho

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https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1337885741389471745

Hardware Unboxed
@HardwareUnboxed


BIG NEWS I just received an email from Nvidia apologizing for the previous email & they've now walked everything back. This thing has been a roller coaster ride over the past few days. I’d like to thank everyone who supported us, obviously a huge thank you to
@linusgsebastian
I am glad it got reversed, I am disappointed it always takes a large enough public shaming to do so.

Also, kudos to Linus. I may not be a big fan, but he often does call out this kind of shit and has enough clout to make a difference.
 
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SPARTAN VI

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wait? since when? I watch them all the time and I'm finding this AMD bias.



Since never, that's why. HUB was one of the more critical outlets and relatively comprehensive in their coverage of Navi driver/launch issues. A fanboy channel would have side stepped or downplayed the issue entirely. I don't buy it one bit that they're AMD shills...

We heard the same thing about Kyle for decades. Nvidia shill because [H]'s review/opinion on the ATI Xpress 200 chipset; AMD shill for breaking the GPP story; Nvidia shill for being critical of Fury Nano sampling; AMD shill for RTX space invaders. It never ends.
 
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Chris_B

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Since never, that's why. HUB was one of the more critical outlets and relatively comprehensive in their coverage of Navi driver/launch issues. A fanboy channel would have side stepped or downplayed the issue entirely. I don't buy it one bit that they're AMD shills..


If people online are to be believed every site under the sun has been a "shill" for one side or the other at varying points in time. It generally flip flops at least a few times every few years and if you're not in the loop with the online drama a site that was considered an nvidia shill site is now an amd shill etc. Gets pretty pathetic to say the least.
 

chameleoneel

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As others have said, GPP was way worse and is all but forgotten by now.
I'm not so sure. The youtube PC enthusiast channels have grown a lot since GPP. And seem far more relevant to general customers and internet surfers, than they were around GPP times. Maybe even relatively more relevant now, than sites like [H], Techpowerup, etc.

Also, this year has caused a ton more focus on PC gaming and tech, than I've rarely ever seen.
 
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exlink

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I'm not so sure. The youtube PC enthusiast channels have grown a lot since GPP. And seem far more relevant to general customers and internet surfers, than they were around GPP times. Maybe even relatively more relevant now, than sites like [H], Techpowerup, etc.

Also, this year has caused a ton more focus on PC gaming and tech, than I've rarely ever seen.
I’m not sure that you can draw a definitive correlation between GPP and the way reviews are tailored now. There are far too many other variables to factor in.
 

Krenum

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