Uvaman2

2[H]4U
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I'm guessing this is the result of the earlier launches of the Xbox One and PS4 consoles as well as the fact that many of those who wanted those consoles, likely had them by now. Not that the Switch hasn't done well, but the parameters of success listed are debatable to say the least.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the Switch and a bit frustrated because it could have been so much better with a few different decisions. The form factor and even the hardware - basically a Tegra tablet w/ JoyCons + a Dock etc..- were a great start. However, it is the software that has let me down. I was hoping that Nintendo would have gone with an Android powered OS with a Nintendo skin and their own store preloaded, allowing easy use as a convergence device and wide support. The decision to knock together their own OS was a disappointment, but I at least expected Nintendo to evolve a bit and make the most of their hardware. The Switch could have offered utility applications like browsers, e-reading apps, multimedia (the Switch pretty much begs for Kodi support given its portable and docked options), and more but Nintendo wasn't having any of it - even less support than their 3DS which offered Netflix/Hulu , picto-chat and a few other free utilities. So after all this I felt at very least the homebrew/modder/hacking community would be able to pick up the slack; to date, I've spent more money on Nintendo's Wii / U / 3DS hardware and software because they were some of the few devices that could be modded with relative ease and without risk of bans for modding (bans for cheating/hacking during online play and ruining's everyone's time were still present and I have no problem with this) Of course, as if on cue Nintendo decided to lock down the Switch more than previous consoles, doling out hardware bans for modified Switches even doing innocuous things like running homebrew or updating their systems without burning e-fuses. There is still a thriving Switch mod scene, but thanks to Nintendo's ham-fisted attempts it pretty much comes down to everyone who mods either A) staying offline all the time to avoid bans or B) getting banned and thus unable to go online to the Store, update games, buy new stuff, play online multiplayer etc - both cases meaning players have zero reason to ever purchase anything legit for the Switch ever again! Its painfully evident than the justifications for such behavior come from the "we want ALL the hypothetical money, instead of some real money" thinking, as despite the ease of modding on previous Nintendo systems most of them were massively successful!

All of this seems like a real waste to me. My overall distaste for the idea of a modern "console" aside (I see no reason for proprietary, locked down versions near-off-the-shelf hardware bound to and controlled by a middleman to the extent common), the Switch could have been a great multifuction device allowing both "tablet/utility/media/possibly Android" stuff and "Nintendo gaming", both taking advantage of hardware control and dock features. Unfortunately, Nintendo is too addicted to complete control and insistence on a $300+ single function mobile device that the current software and policy choices were made instead. Nintendo's main strengths are their first party titles and these will always be their main draw, but I hope the pressures of the changing world will encourage them to evolve a bit. I've long said that I wish Nintendo would give up on the whole console thing and instead focus on open platform development (ie PC, Android on mobile ) for software and sales of peripherals and hardware meant for use on said open platforms; I'd greatly prefer to buy Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade and more.. on Steam were they available! I've put my money up when SEGA did just this, offering Valkyria Chronicles , Yakuza, and other classic as well as brand new titles on PC! However, I feel that Nintendo is too set in their ways for the moment and that "successes" like those mentioned here, mostly based upon the software not the console itself, will justify their ongoing path. H

And so I wait. I wait for a new implementation of EmuNAND for custom Switch firmware makes it safe to split one's system into a modded emulated partition and a stock one for online play without issue; a minimum viable compromise. I wait for the surprisingly rapid development of the Yuzu (https://yuzu-emu.org/) emulator that will eventually allow near perfect play of the titles I'd very much like to enjoy from the Switch library, enhanced in all the ways an emulator can do so on a beefy PC. Or I wait for Nintendo to change their draconian policies and expand to open platforms... but while I wait, I find myself not purchasing content from Nintendo that I would do so under other circumstances. I'm sure some will just say "well, Nintendo doesn't need you etc...", but I'm far from the only one, and much like their freak-out after the slump of the WiiU, they should learn that refusing to change their ways and insist that a few first party titles or exclusives cannot solely sustain a platform.
To me they did it right... Enough of ' master of none' Do games, and do them correctly. Mobile games should be easy enough to port if the publishers see it fit to do so, if not, then so be it.
The one thing coming is game streaming, already in use in japan reportedly to good results.. so in some ways they are ahead there.. again focus on games, forget everything else, as its going to come out half assed most likely.
 

RanceJustice

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
6,317
To me they did it right... Enough of ' master of none' Do games, and do them correctly. Mobile games should be easy enough to port if the publishers see it fit to do so, if not, then so be it.
The one thing coming is game streaming, already in use in japan reportedly to good results.. so in some ways they are ahead there.. again focus on games, forget everything else, as its going to come out half assed most likely.

I would have no problem with this approach if they focused exclusively on games... on PC/mobile! However, if you're going to be selling a device - especially one that's basically a NV Shield Tablet with controller ports - there are plenty of other use cases. This is nearly 2019 - we're not in 1996 or even 2006 anymore; we have cell phones and tablets that range between near to and more powerful than most mobile gaming devices. Mobile devices that we carry with us and are great for gaming; their few limitations include lack of "hardcore" gaming controllers (ie Joycons), and (in some cases, though this is changing) transition between portable / home docked modes. Though the content itself is a bit of a problem, there are ton of games for Android / iOS mobile devices (and even a few decent ones) , so the idea that I'd have to carry a separate device JUST for Nintendo games - especially when it can do so much more, is undesirable; just give me those Nintendo games and controllers for my existing hardware or let the Switch be my tablet on which I can also do my "tablet things".

I would have loved if Nintendo brought their games to mobile - and I mean REAL versions of their games. Not Pokemon Go, not that eternal Mario runner, not even the watered down Fire Emblem title ... all of which include "mobile style monetization" which I consider anathema. Give me 3DS and Switch titles on my Android device, in high quality, sold for a reasonable chunk of cash up front and then with main expansion style DLC etc... and I'd buy! However, they don't seem to do this, for fear of cannibalizing their own essentially mobile device, which of course requires propriertary development so that splits their time and funding (ie its not just an Android app etc).

Game streaming is one of those things that is a great concern of mine. The technology, like most tech, is agnostic but sadly it seems the market will gravitate towards its potential for control and other customer unfriendly interactions. I'm all for streaming using open, platform agnostic protocols with options of user control - like Steam Link streaming, perhaps Parsec etc... or being able to set up a server on my gaming PC and stream using the power of my own machine when I'm on an underpowered laptop or whatnot. However, I am concerned where access to the game is fully streamed and online, under the control of the publisher where your PC is just a dumb terminal more or less; they set the rules, who can connect, what you can mod, what you can do, how it can be accessed etc.. and when its gone, its gone! Japan's gigabit or better broadband penetration and density makes something like this more viable from a technical standpoint and the old school top down Nintendo style ethos of controlling the experience is par for the course in big game companies over there, sadly. I hope there is more resistance in other areas of the world that streaming as an option is one thing, but shifting more and more of the control into the hands of publishers is worrisome indeed.
 

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
20,034
Honestly I probably put 800+ hours into each Elder Scrolls games, and probably 200+ in each fallout game which have infinitly more depth so BotW is incredibly boring.

HA! If you're talking early ES and the Black Isle Fallout games I'll give you that but any of the ES games beyond Oblivion? Oh hell no they do not. Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3, and FO4 are very shallow open world games. There is not a single thing about them that I'd put above BotW, not even the graphics. FO3 did a damn good job with exploration, but I'd still say it doesn't even come close the Breath's sense of discovery. Skyrim and FO4 just had dull, lifeless, worlds that did kind of a bad job of encouraging exploration. Both games had far too little to discover off the beaten path and none of it ever felt special.
 

Uvaman2

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,143
I would have no problem with this approach if they focused exclusively on games... on PC/mobile! However, if you're going to be selling a device - especially one that's basically a NV Shield Tablet with controller ports - there are plenty of other use cases. This is nearly 2019 - we're not in 1996 or even 2006 anymore; we have cell phones and tablets that range between near to and more powerful than most mobile gaming devices. Mobile devices that we carry with us and are great for gaming; their few limitations include lack of "hardcore" gaming controllers (ie Joycons), and (in some cases, though this is changing) transition between portable / home docked modes. Though the content itself is a bit of a problem, there are ton of games for Android / iOS mobile devices (and even a few decent ones) , so the idea that I'd have to carry a separate device JUST for Nintendo games - especially when it can do so much more, is undesirable; just give me those Nintendo games and controllers for my existing hardware or let the Switch be my tablet on which I can also do my "tablet things".

I would have loved if Nintendo brought their games to mobile - and I mean REAL versions of their games. Not Pokemon Go, not that eternal Mario runner, not even the watered down Fire Emblem title ... all of which include "mobile style monetization" which I consider anathema. Give me 3DS and Switch titles on my Android device, in high quality, sold for a reasonable chunk of cash up front and then with main expansion style DLC etc... and I'd buy! However, they don't seem to do this, for fear of cannibalizing their own essentially mobile device, which of course requires propriertary development so that splits their time and funding (ie its not just an Android app etc).

Game streaming is one of those things that is a great concern of mine. The technology, like most tech, is agnostic but sadly it seems the market will gravitate towards its potential for control and other customer unfriendly interactions. I'm all for streaming using open, platform agnostic protocols with options of user control - like Steam Link streaming, perhaps Parsec etc... or being able to set up a server on my gaming PC and stream using the power of my own machine when I'm on an underpowered laptop or whatnot. However, I am concerned where access to the game is fully streamed and online, under the control of the publisher where your PC is just a dumb terminal more or less; they set the rules, who can connect, what you can mod, what you can do, how it can be accessed etc.. and when its gone, its gone! Japan's gigabit or better broadband penetration and density makes something like this more viable from a technical standpoint and the old school top down Nintendo style ethos of controlling the experience is par for the course in big game companies over there, sadly. I hope there is more resistance in other areas of the world that streaming as an option is one thing, but shifting more and more of the control into the hands of publishers is worrisome indeed.
Honestly, i was worried about streaming games, lately I just don't give a crap.. obviously the time of ' owning' anything is something they want to kill, so screw it.. if the monthly price is low, just don't care. Don't care if its there and gone tommorow, lately i can play a game or not just all the same, some games i finished properly, others mostly and i am okay with that.. I do understand your mindset though, i am not knocking it. As far as phones and this and the other, lets agree to disagree.. I just can't see Nintendo or any company bringing full blown games to unpredictable hardware plataforms with limited input... Yes i know there is some, not sure you can build your company around it though
 

next-Jin

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
7,162
Honestly I probably put 800+ hours into each Elder Scrolls games, and probably 200+ in each fallout game which have infinitly more depth so BotW is incredibly boring.

Eh I put 500 or so odd hours into BotW and around 35 into Horizon. I’ve put over a 1000 across all Elder Scrolls games.

It’s all personal preference tbh, but I enjoyed BotW more than any of them.
 

StoleMyOwnCar

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
2,380
I bought a Switch recently. I like it fine. Pokemon Let's Go is a bit disappointing in some ways, but mainly the reason I got it was--and this is something that doesn't seem to be mentioned in this thread--because of Sony's latest censorship brigade.

I buy a lot of Neptunia and anime themed games. I hate censorship on a conceptual level so much that Sony's latest BS has me to the point where I might just sell my PS4, cancel PS+, and move away from them permanently. I'll keep the Vita because I love the Vita.

Ironically Switch games are going to remain uncensored for many of these releases, while PS4 will be completely censored. I'm sure most mainstream gamers don't give a crap, but for many of us in this crowd, it completely killed the PS4 for us.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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Messages
13,046
I still don't get what do you love about nintendo, it's a shitty company that creates casual games, but then again people seem to love apple as well, so there is that.
 

Criticalhitkoala

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,985
I still don't get what do you love about nintendo, it's a shitty company that creates casual games, but then again people seem to love apple as well, so there is that.

Because love is subjective?

God forbid someone finds something they enjoy about something.

/queue Russian kid behind chessboard screaming "don't like what I don't like"!
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
7,599
This is the first Nintendo console since the NES that I have no intention of purchasing. Console gaming in my household pretty much is nonexistent. The only consoles we have are a PS3 and WiiU.

This is the most confusing statement I've ever read. Make the same statement about the wiiu which was overpriced garbage, sure makes sense. But the switch is literally the wiiu with all the awful problems fixed. The only criticism of the switch outside the normal Nintendo still doesn't understand online is it came out years to late. The wiiu never should have been released. Bake it another year, or two release the switch instead and we should have already been looking at a second generation switch that could actually compete with the PS4. But noooo because Nintendo.
 

McCartney

Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
861
You can make the same sort of argument about/against any of the current generation. Xbox and PS are nothing but stripped down PCs with under powered APUs.

Games are the only thing that matters.

Not to knock every PS/xbone game as there are some standouts... but the entire "AAA" game development pool is in for a crash imo. Gamers don't have their heads turned so easily by some pretty on screen stuffs like they used to. I was no different then most people 10 years back... seeing a game that really pushed hardware was so new and cool I would overlook some pretty terrible game design. Ya finished the game in 5 or 6 hours and there is next to zero reason to replay, but man look at that water. lol At this point the current generation of gaming kids... grew up with shiny metal and water and games that feel like playing a well animated cartoon. And those of us that are older kids of the 80s and 90s... we are jaded. We have seen great graphics for years now. Give us great game play again.

I'm not saying Nintendo games are all home runs. Even back in the old NES days there where plenty of stinkers. In general though I think most gamers these days want actual good games first. If things get wrapped up in a pretty package that's nice. But I would rather play a game like octopath traveler for hours over the latest Drake/Croft/ACreed type "real hardware console" games that play exactly the same as the previous title.... "oh look RandomConsoleSeriesTitle 8 is out, and this time its set in medieval japan and they added reflections to the blood spurts" lol :)

nice post.

anyone remember the hype for SquareSoft's "The Bouncer" for PS2? graphics were the big draw, but the length of the game was so disappointing that it got mediocre reviews.
 

Soulmetzger

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,326
This is the most confusing statement I've ever read. Make the same statement about the wiiu which was overpriced garbage, sure makes sense. But the switch is literally the wiiu with all the awful problems fixed. The only criticism of the switch outside the normal Nintendo still doesn't understand online is it came out years to late. The wiiu never should have been released. Bake it another year, or two release the switch instead and we should have already been looking at a second generation switch that could actually compete with the PS4. But noooo because Nintendo.

My household loved the WiiU since we had a ton of Wii games already and the WiiU had a fantastic lineup. Hell the Switch is pretty much nothing but a portable WiiU since 90% of first party titles are rehashes of WiiU titles. Also, in a household with three kids now they each have to have their own Switch or as soon as one person takes it from the dock a fight starts. No thank you.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Eh I put 500 or so odd hours into BotW and around 35 into Horizon. I’ve put over a 1000 across all Elder Scrolls games.

It’s all personal preference tbh, but I enjoyed BotW more than any of them.

May I ask How? or Why? because to be honest I don't get it, Open world games depend on the pay off or reward for exploration and to be honest there is just no real pay off in BotW, sure heart containers and energy for the shrines then you have the inventory space increases, not compared to something that is semi open world like Monster Hunter where there is a distinctive reason for exploring, BotW is known for not respecting a players time with that hohum reward for collecting the gems, there is no depth no real character progression, nothing other than running around for the sake of running around, and getting killed by rando crap.....that you have no real skill or way of preventing.

Like I said its a good fun game, but after a while becomes boring, game of the year, def not, people just give the game more credit than it deserves because it was the only game worth anything on the switch for so long.
 
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HA! If you're talking early ES and the Black Isle Fallout games I'll give you that but any of the ES games beyond Oblivion? Oh hell no they do not. Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3, and FO4 are very shallow open world games. There is not a single thing about them that I'd put above BotW, not even the graphics. FO3 did a damn good job with exploration, but I'd still say it doesn't even come close the Breath's sense of discovery. Skyrim and FO4 just had dull, lifeless, worlds that did kind of a bad job of encouraging exploration. Both games had far too little to discover off the beaten path and none of it ever felt special.

See other than FO4, I am not seeing it, BotW has none of what you are talking about, there is zero reason for running around or exploration, I mean sure heart containers/energy, inventory space but there is no meaning to it, ES games there more often than not each location has a story or something in it and a reason for running around doing these things as you can improve your character in a meaningful way rather than just a generic increase, ES series has a level of wonder to it, BotW looks like an 8 year old's cartoon you can't even compare them graphically speaking as Morrowind has a better level of graphics than BotW, so its really not even remotely fair to compare the 2 in that aspect.
 

ThatsAgood1jay

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,029
In the last year, I have bought a PS4 (BF 2017), Xbox One X (Summer 2018 to replace a dying Xbox One Elite) and then a Switch (BF 2018).

I will probably be buying a PS4 Pro next year, along with a second switch since my Wife keeps hogging the switch to play pokemon.
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,413
Maybe it has something to do with the idea that you can easily pirate and install homebrew?
 

psy81

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
511
Love the Switch... I haven't had a Nintendo product since the original NES. Mario Odyssey was a lot of fun and Bayonetta 2 is a great game. Its probably on par with a PS3 in terms of graphics which is still impressive considering its essentially a portable system. Screen size is just right. Hard to go back to my PS vita now.

My only complaint is the games are expensive. Even older used games are expensive. I bought GoW of PS4 for $30. Mario Kart and Zelda is still $80 CAD even though its a WiiU game. Even used its still like $70.
 
Joined
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I'm guessing this is the result of the earlier launches of the Xbox One and PS4 consoles as well as the fact that many of those who wanted those consoles, likely had them by now. Not that the Switch hasn't done well, but the parameters of success listed are debatable to say the least.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the Switch and a bit frustrated because it could have been so much better with a few different decisions. The form factor and even the hardware - basically a Tegra tablet w/ JoyCons + a Dock etc..- were a great start. However, it is the software that has let me down. I was hoping that Nintendo would have gone with an Android powered OS with a Nintendo skin and their own store preloaded, allowing easy use as a convergence device and wide support. The decision to knock together their own OS was a disappointment, but I at least expected Nintendo to evolve a bit and make the most of their hardware. The Switch could have offered utility applications like browsers, e-reading apps, multimedia (the Switch pretty much begs for Kodi support given its portable and docked options), and more but Nintendo wasn't having any of it - even less support than their 3DS which offered Netflix/Hulu , picto-chat and a few other free utilities. So after all this I felt at very least the homebrew/modder/hacking community would be able to pick up the slack; to date, I've spent more money on Nintendo's Wii / U / 3DS hardware and software because they were some of the few devices that could be modded with relative ease and without risk of bans for modding (bans for cheating/hacking during online play and ruining's everyone's time were still present and I have no problem with this) Of course, as if on cue Nintendo decided to lock down the Switch more than previous consoles, doling out hardware bans for modified Switches even doing innocuous things like running homebrew or updating their systems without burning e-fuses. There is still a thriving Switch mod scene, but thanks to Nintendo's ham-fisted attempts it pretty much comes down to everyone who mods either A) staying offline all the time to avoid bans or B) getting banned and thus unable to go online to the Store, update games, buy new stuff, play online multiplayer etc - both cases meaning players have zero reason to ever purchase anything legit for the Switch ever again! Its painfully evident than the justifications for such behavior come from the "we want ALL the hypothetical money, instead of some real money" thinking, as despite the ease of modding on previous Nintendo systems most of them were massively successful!

All of this seems like a real waste to me. My overall distaste for the idea of a modern "console" aside (I see no reason for proprietary, locked down versions near-off-the-shelf hardware bound to and controlled by a middleman to the extent common), the Switch could have been a great multifuction device allowing both "tablet/utility/media/possibly Android" stuff and "Nintendo gaming", both taking advantage of hardware control and dock features. Unfortunately, Nintendo is too addicted to complete control and insistence on a $300+ single function mobile device that the current software and policy choices were made instead. Nintendo's main strengths are their first party titles and these will always be their main draw, but I hope the pressures of the changing world will encourage them to evolve a bit. I've long said that I wish Nintendo would give up on the whole console thing and instead focus on open platform development (ie PC, Android on mobile ) for software and sales of peripherals and hardware meant for use on said open platforms; I'd greatly prefer to buy Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade and more.. on Steam were they available! I've put my money up when SEGA did just this, offering Valkyria Chronicles , Yakuza, and other classic as well as brand new titles on PC! However, I feel that Nintendo is too set in their ways for the moment and that "successes" like those mentioned here, mostly based upon the software not the console itself, will justify their ongoing path. H

And so I wait. I wait for a new implementation of EmuNAND for custom Switch firmware makes it safe to split one's system into a modded emulated partition and a stock one for online play without issue; a minimum viable compromise. I wait for the surprisingly rapid development of the Yuzu (https://yuzu-emu.org/) emulator that will eventually allow near perfect play of the titles I'd very much like to enjoy from the Switch library, enhanced in all the ways an emulator can do so on a beefy PC. Or I wait for Nintendo to change their draconian policies and expand to open platforms... but while I wait, I find myself not purchasing content from Nintendo that I would do so under other circumstances. I'm sure some will just say "well, Nintendo doesn't need you etc...", but I'm far from the only one, and much like their freak-out after the slump of the WiiU, they should learn that refusing to change their ways and insist that a few first party titles or exclusives cannot solely sustain a platform.

My main problem is the build quality, the OS and network social functions are still.....way behind, and yet people act like Nintendo is the god send of gaming, It is completely like they are the Apple of Console gaming, mis-market and fail to understand the true audience they have, and fail at every attempt to satisfy customers leaving money on the table all while screwing fans over... I just don't get it, I bought the switch and then sold it because like its games it lacks depth and is a mere novelty rather than an actual platform at best its a step above cell phone gaming as I can say the games are actual games and not just P2W or time passing garbage but ultimately its for kids and people on the go and more an extension of a source "kawaii" for adults.
 

Derangel

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Messages
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See other than FO4, I am not seeing it, BotW has none of what you are talking about, there is zero reason for running around or exploration, I mean sure heart containers/energy, inventory space but there is no meaning to it, ES games there more often than not each location has a story or something in it and a reason for running around doing these things as you can improve your character in a meaningful way rather than just a generic increase, ES series has a level of wonder to it, BotW looks like an 8 year old's cartoon you can't even compare them graphically speaking as Morrowind has a better level of graphics than BotW, so its really not even remotely fair to compare the 2 in that aspect.

Oblivion had more of the "go to this random place and find a neat story" than Skyrim. Skyrim had some stuff, but none of it ever felt really well crafted or worth the effort. While BOTW lacked in story content (main path or otherwise) the way it handled exploration was in the things you found in general when wandering off. The environmental storytelling of some ruins or a building. I don't really need a game to offer me some super special piece of gear or some elaborate story off the beaten path, but I do want a game like that to make it feel like I discovered something. Either that or take the FO3 approach of experimenting with quests or areas. The few times where Bethesda was really able to show off something resembling good writing in FO3 came from some of the quests you'd never find without exploring. Going somewhere random in the game also offered some of the best bits of environmental storytelling in the game, something a lot of the copy-pasted main areas of the game had trouble conveying. Morrowind had so many things a player would never find if they just kept to the main path or only did a little exploring. A game like Oblivion ended up falling apart due to the game's shit dungeon design and just how lazy Bethesda got with them.
 
Joined
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Messages
2,619
How is the new Mario Party, we were thinking of getting it for when friends stop over.

I find it quite enjoyable. In an all adult setting or an adult plus young child setting its quite fun. The board game and rafting modes offer a nice time investment to enjoyment ratio. Its replaced Mario Kart as our go to game.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
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Oblivion had more of the "go to this random place and find a neat story" than Skyrim. Skyrim had some stuff, but none of it ever felt really well crafted or worth the effort. While BOTW lacked in story content (main path or otherwise) the way it handled exploration was in the things you found in general when wandering off. The environmental storytelling of some ruins or a building. I don't really need a game to offer me some super special piece of gear or some elaborate story off the beaten path, but I do want a game like that to make it feel like I discovered something. Either that or take the FO3 approach of experimenting with quests or areas. The few times where Bethesda was really able to show off something resembling good writing in FO3 came from some of the quests you'd never find without exploring. Going somewhere random in the game also offered some of the best bits of environmental storytelling in the game, something a lot of the copy-pasted main areas of the game had trouble conveying. Morrowind had so many things a player would never find if they just kept to the main path or only did a little exploring. A game like Oblivion ended up falling apart due to the game's shit dungeon design and just how lazy Bethesda got with them.

I can accept that, hopefully es 6 will be better in that aspect, I will say New Vegas though was 1000x better for that but then again that was the left overs of Black Isle that made it.

Regardless personally I need something to be more meaningful even if it's a skeleton with some backstory just laying there BotW just didn't do it for me and just ended up boring, alot of people I know considered it fun like I did, but people around me agree it just became boring, and I can confidently say it is overrated as well as everyone around me has stated I thought it was just me initially till I started hearing people talk.

Honestly I thought Divinity 2 was more fun as well but that was more semi open ended world.
 
D

Deleted member 83233

Guest
I still don't get what do you love about nintendo, it's a shitty company that creates casual games, but then again people seem to love apple as well, so there is that.

Casual?!?? They basically defined the home console market after everyone else failed in 1983. They create some of the most loved series in video game history. No, all of the people that love Mario, Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero games are just idiots right who have no idea what "real" games are? So what, we should all just stop playing games that are enjoyable and different, and actually genre defining, and start playing Assassin's Duty? If you don't like Nintendo's games, that's totally fine. I'll put that down to personal taste, which is totally valid. But calling those games casual, shows a fundamental lack of understanding. The actual base level quality of Nintendo's games is light years beyond what most companies produce. The only company I can even think of off the top of my head that comes close is id Software. (maybe also some of the better indies, as many of them seem to know how to design and code very well like Motion Twin, Heart Machine, etc.) Hey, if colorful, fun, worlds aren't your thing, fine, but the mechanics of Nintendo's games are among the most refined, purest, most precise in the world. Calling them casual is absolute silliness.
 

Flogger23m

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Casual?!?? They basically defined the home console market after everyone else failed in 1983. They create some of the most loved series in video game history. No, all of the people that love Mario, Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero games are just idiots right who have no idea what "real" games are? So what, we should all just stop playing games that are enjoyable and different, and actually genre defining, and start playing Assassin's Duty? If you don't like Nintendo's games, that's totally fine. I'll put that down to personal taste, which is totally valid. But calling those games casual, shows a fundamental lack of understanding. The actual base level quality of Nintendo's games is light years beyond what most companies produce. The only company I can even think of off the top of my head that comes close is id Software. (maybe also some of the better indies, as many of them seem to know how to design and code very well like Motion Twin, Heart Machine, etc.) Hey, if colorful, fun, worlds aren't your thing, fine, but the mechanics of Nintendo's games are among the most refined, purest, most precise in the world. Calling them casual is absolute silliness.

I agree with this, but Nintendo has been slipping lately. Super Smash online runs like crap often enough to be a big problem, and they charge $20 to play online. Zelda was okay, but is without a doubt the most over rated generic game of the decade. Empty open world, climbing towers, bad fetch quests. Nintendo still does offer a different experience from the other platforms and still has its place. There is a reason I bought the Switch. But I'll say there is certainly a reduction of quality with Nintendo as of late.
 
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Deleted member 83233

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I agree with this, but Nintendo has been slipping lately. Super Smash online runs like crap often enough to be a big problem, and they charge $20 to play online. Zelda was okay, but is without a doubt the most over rated generic game of the decade. Empty open world, climbing towers, bad fetch quests. Nintendo still does offer a different experience from the other platforms and still has its place. There is a reason I bought the Switch. But I'll say there is certainly a reduction of quality with Nintendo as of late.

I haven't played anything online, so I'll take your word on that. It doesn't surprise me since their service is so new, and a bit of a departure from what they're used to. I'm sure it will improve.

As far as Breath of the Wild... I actually felt that way at first. That it was a bit empty, I didn't like the weapon breakage mechanic (thought they should either have a repair option, or at least eased it up a bit) and wasn't too keen on the shrine thing. However, the more I played it, the more I started enjoying it, and also found plenty of things to do. It did start pretty slow for me though. I can see how it would either be one's favorite Zelda or least favorite Zelda. Me, I was kind of in the middle, but I really had a blast with it toward the end. I also got the motorcycle, and have been doing ridiculous things with it. :D So in the end, while it's not my favorite, I did find it to be worthy of top four or five. Wind Waker (especially the HD Remake) is my absolute favorite. I also play it with my daughters, which kind of helps. They like to do the mundane things like make fancy meals, collect things, etc. My oldest daughter and I do all the boss-beating, and trickier stuff, while the younger two stick to the more basic stuff. That more or less means, I see all the action, or do the random goofy shit that I like to do, and they handle the things I don't really like to do. :D That may have improved my view of the game a few percentage points. I still think it's a solid game though. Definitely above some other open world games I can think of. It also has more style/panache than many, which at least for me puts it up a little further. Its environments, aesthetics, etc. gel with me.

I think there is a bit of a shift in their games, but I wouldn't say it's a quality thing. It seems that more and more control is being given to their younger developers, and so we're seeing a bit of a shift in styles. These may not sit 100% squarely with some of us older players. You can see this sort of thing industry wide on all platforms really. It's a pattern, and one that we don't necessarily have to like. I know I don't a lot of the time. There are still some good hardcore "good old days-style" games out there though. Most of them are being made by the indie devs, and the occasional older-school devs like id.
 
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NickJames

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,691
I agree with this, but Nintendo has been slipping lately. Super Smash online runs like crap often enough to be a big problem, and they charge $20 to play online. Zelda was okay, but is without a doubt the most over rated generic game of the decade. Empty open world, climbing towers, bad fetch quests. Nintendo still does offer a different experience from the other platforms and still has its place. There is a reason I bought the Switch. But I'll say there is certainly a reduction of quality with Nintendo as of late.

Nintendo has never done online right, it's complete garbage and they're stuck in 1999, I swear Dreamcast had more functional online capabilities than anything Nintendo has made in over a decade. Zelda was interesting, I enjoyed the shift of the series, they still kept the puzzles which was nice but added the freedom to pick which quest path to take and what order which made for some interesting battles depending on what you unlocked first.
 

Criticalhitkoala

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,985
See other than FO4, I am not seeing it, BotW has none of what you are talking about, there is zero reason for running around or exploration, I mean sure heart containers/energy, inventory space but there is no meaning to it, ES games there more often than not each location has a story or something in it and a reason for running around doing these things as you can improve your character in a meaningful way rather than just a generic increase, ES series has a level of wonder to it, BotW looks like an 8 year old's cartoon you can't even compare them graphically speaking as Morrowind has a better level of graphics than BotW, so its really not even remotely fair to compare the 2 in that aspect.

I know you didn't ask me but I'll answer this.

My wife and I both played BOTW, and wihle I only did about 240 hours to get the fun out of it...my wife is the type of person who NEVER goes to the objective, and just wanders and enjoys all the small details. She easily puts 300~500+ hours into games like BOTW, Skyrim, Horizon, and now Red Dead. She absolutely enjoys all the small little things. She doesn't need a reference manual and 900 ways to develop skill to think the game is great...hell she actually hates to much managing. So I feel like she represents perfectly the average gamer, and there's a shit ton of them out there.

You can have that detail with cartoons. There are a lot of small little things and challanges in BOTW that are engaging and really add to your own personal lore about it. The other factor is the hard core gaming aspect. I don't die as much as she does in the game. Were a dungeon can take me 15 minutes, it could take her 2 hours because she's exploring and most importanly having fun.

What I've noticed about your posting is you seem really offended that people like and praise a game that you just seem to have issues with. The thing is a LOT of people are praising it. Maybe, just maybe, for a lot of people it is a good game...and worthy of game of the year.

By all means it's perfectly fine for you not to think it isn't. Cause there's a lot of games that people consider great that I don't care much for (like the Sims).


As a person who has played Zelda and video games for over 30 years now, BOTW is special to me because it has a world I fell in love with 30 years ago and it fleshes it out more. It has a character that I've created my own stories for, and just enough story where it's not force fed into me. The game is far from perfect though, and there's a lot things I think it could do better, but in the grand scale it all it's what I consider a tremendously well designed game that appeals to a mass audience. Dude the game OUTSOLD the Nintendo switch when it released. There was more copies of the game then there were switches. That's gotta account for something. :)
 
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Deleted member 83233

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I know you didn't ask me but I'll answer this.

My wife and I both played BOTW, and wihle I only did about 240 hours to get the fun out of it...my wife is the type of person who NEVER goes to the objective, and just wanders and enjoys all the small details. She easily puts 300~500+ hours into games like BOTW, Skyrim, Horizon, and now Red Dead. She absolutely enjoys all the small little things. She doesn't need a reference manual and 900 ways to develop skill to think the game is great...hell she actually hates to much managing. So I feel like she represents perfectly the average gamer, and there's a shit ton of them out there.

You can have that detail with cartoons. There are a lot of small little things and challanges in BOTW that are engaging and really add to your own personal lore about it. The other factor is the hard core gaming aspect. I don't die as much as she does in the game. Were a dungeon can take me 15 minutes, it could take her 2 hours because she's exploring and most importanly having fun.

What I've noticed about your posting is you seem really offended that people like and praise a game that you just seem to have issues with. The thing is a LOT of people are praising it. Maybe, just maybe, for a lot of people it is a good game...and worthy of game of the year.

By all means it's perfectly fine for you not to think it isn't. Cause there's a lot of games that people consider great that I don't care much for (like the Sims).


As a person who has played Zelda and video games for over 30 years now, BOTW is special to me because it has a world I fell in love with 30 years ago and it fleshes it out more. It has a character that I've created my own stories for, and just enough story where it's not force fed into me. The game is far from perfect though, and there's a lot things I think it could do better, but in the grand scale it all it's what I consider a tremendously well designed game that appeals to a mass audience. Dude the game OUTSOLD the Nintendo switch when it released. There was more copies of the game then there were switches. That's gotta account for something. :)

Well said! I couldn't agree much more really. I play a lot of hardcore difficult games. Especially indies like Hyper Light Drifter, Dead Cells and the like, but aside from those I approach most modern games much like your wife. I only do enough missions to unlock worlds in games like GTA for example. And then I get my other 200 hours from just screwing around, and pushing on the mechanics, and appreciating the little fine touches/flourishes. I do the same thing with the open world games. I'll explore every nook. I'll create my own fun in the world that was provided to me. And then, I'll occasionally beat bosses for my kids :D

I love a good story and linear scripted game, and I also love a sandbox. As much for how it's intended to be played as playing it in unintended ways. I felt like BotW provided just enough of all of that. Sure they could have refined a few things to my specific tastes in a perfect world, but I found plenty of enjoyment the way it is. I don't see how anyone could possible call it a bad game. Definitely not to everyone's tastes, but bad? Absolutely not. Also, the fact that they could pull off the world that they provided on a Wii U and a Switch is just plain impressive.
 

Concillian

Limp Gawd
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Jun 14, 2005
Messages
270
As the father of an 11 y/o daughter, I bought an XBone a couple years ago that basically goes untouched. You need a subscription to basically do anything. I got Minecraft on it for my daughter... I think her 8th birthday... you need a subscription to be allowed to SAVE IN SINGLEPLAYER CREATIVE. How does this make sense? It's like the most off-line thing you can do on an XBone and it wants me to pay for an online service to do it... after I already paid for the game? F that. Every time we go back to it to do something like play "Just Dance: ancient edition" we need to wait an hour for it to update bullshit we don't need or want. It's complete garbage as a "family" console and I regret buying it every time I look at it.

Bought a switch for Xmas this year and it's a no brainer. You can play without an internet connection, there are plenty of family style games, etc... The other consoles are basically PCs in every way except they require an additional subscription and have inferior longevity, expandability and controls. My college aged niece and nephew that live with me don't want anything to do with the XBone when they play (lately mostly Fortnite, I try not to judge.) They are wanting to use one of my PCs to play on. Even strongly prefer the old Haswell / GTX760 machine.
 
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Messages
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I know you didn't ask me but I'll answer this.

My wife and I both played BOTW, and wihle I only did about 240 hours to get the fun out of it...my wife is the type of person who NEVER goes to the objective, and just wanders and enjoys all the small details. She easily puts 300~500+ hours into games like BOTW, Skyrim, Horizon, and now Red Dead. She absolutely enjoys all the small little things. She doesn't need a reference manual and 900 ways to develop skill to think the game is great...hell she actually hates to much managing. So I feel like she represents perfectly the average gamer, and there's a shit ton of them out there.

You can have that detail with cartoons. There are a lot of small little things and challanges in BOTW that are engaging and really add to your own personal lore about it. The other factor is the hard core gaming aspect. I don't die as much as she does in the game. Were a dungeon can take me 15 minutes, it could take her 2 hours because she's exploring and most importanly having fun.

What I've noticed about your posting is you seem really offended that people like and praise a game that you just seem to have issues with. The thing is a LOT of people are praising it. Maybe, just maybe, for a lot of people it is a good game...and worthy of game of the year.

By all means it's perfectly fine for you not to think it isn't. Cause there's a lot of games that people consider great that I don't care much for (like the Sims).


As a person who has played Zelda and video games for over 30 years now, BOTW is special to me because it has a world I fell in love with 30 years ago and it fleshes it out more. It has a character that I've created my own stories for, and just enough story where it's not force fed into me. The game is far from perfect though, and there's a lot things I think it could do better, but in the grand scale it all it's what I consider a tremendously well designed game that appeals to a mass audience. Dude the game OUTSOLD the Nintendo switch when it released. There was more copies of the game then there were switches. That's gotta account for something. :)

It's an a erage game people prais
I know you didn't ask me but I'll answer this.

My wife and I both played BOTW, and wihle I only did about 240 hours to get the fun out of it...my wife is the type of person who NEVER goes to the objective, and just wanders and enjoys all the small details. She easily puts 300~500+ hours into games like BOTW, Skyrim, Horizon, and now Red Dead. She absolutely enjoys all the small little things. She doesn't need a reference manual and 900 ways to develop skill to think the game is great...hell she actually hates to much managing. So I feel like she represents perfectly the average gamer, and there's a shit ton of them out there.

You can have that detail with cartoons. There are a lot of small little things and challanges in BOTW that are engaging and really add to your own personal lore about it. The other factor is the hard core gaming aspect. I don't die as much as she does in the game. Were a dungeon can take me 15 minutes, it could take her 2 hours because she's exploring and most importanly having fun.

What I've noticed about your posting is you seem really offended that people like and praise a game that you just seem to have issues with. The thing is a LOT of people are praising it. Maybe, just maybe, for a lot of people it is a good game...and worthy of game of the year.

By all means it's perfectly fine for you not to think it isn't. Cause there's a lot of games that people consider great that I don't care much for (like the Sims).


As a person who has played Zelda and video games for over 30 years now, BOTW is special to me because it has a world I fell in love with 30 years ago and it fleshes it out more. It has a character that I've created my own stories for, and just enough story where it's not force fed into me. The game is far from perfect though, and there's a lot things I think it could do better, but in the grand scale it all it's what I consider a tremendously well designed game that appeals to a mass audience. Dude the game OUTSOLD the Nintendo switch when it released. There was more copies of the game then there were switches. That's gotta account for something. :)

As I have said the game is fun and good, but not the god send of gaming, game of the year...or best game ever as some have said...no, not even close, that is what I take issue with, people overrating the crap out of something, like I said fun and good just not what people are claiming it to be. The fact it sold more units than the switch just goes to show the fanaticism people have for this, also there is a disstinct difference between a financial success and a critical success, BotW is merely a financial one, and people just keep going and going trying to justify the overreaction to this game.
 
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Deleted member 83233

Guest
It's an a erage game people prais


As I have said the game is fun and good, but not the god send of gaming, game of the year...or best game ever as some have said...no, not even close, that is what I take issue with, people overrating the crap out of something, like I said fun and good just not what people are claiming it to be. The fact it sold more units than the switch just goes to show the fanaticism people have for this, also there is a disstinct difference between a financial success and a critical success, BotW is merely a financial one, and people just keep going and going trying to justify the overreaction to this game.

I wouldn’t say it’s the best game of all time. However, I would say it’s ONE of the best AAA games to come out recently. What else is better?

I enjoyed Prey, Wolfenstein TNC, as far as semi-recent AAA PC games. Not everyone likes those either. Souls games are well crafted, No Man’s Sky has turned out nicely.

The games that I’ve played in recent years that truly impress me are the very well crafted 2D indies. Followed probably by Nintendo games.

Most popular AAA series games don’t even show up on my personal radar. A lot of personal taste goes into all of this, but BotW is almost objectively a good game. One doesn’t have to like it all that much, but there’s not too much you can truly fault it on.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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Messages
12,667
But sales have already tappered off. They might catch Xbone but no where near PS4.

LOL! Not really sure if it matters if they "catch" either one. Next year will probably be the release of the PS and Xbox for the next gen. Wash, rinse, repeat. In this instance, all of them are winners because they are all selling well and making money. No one loses and gamers are the real winners because of this.
 

ManofGod

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Joined
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Messages
12,667
It's an a erage game people prais


As I have said the game is fun and good, but not the god send of gaming, game of the year...or best game ever as some have said...no, not even close, that is what I take issue with, people overrating the crap out of something, like I said fun and good just not what people are claiming it to be. The fact it sold more units than the switch just goes to show the fanaticism people have for this, also there is a disstinct difference between a financial success and a critical success, BotW is merely a financial one, and people just keep going and going trying to justify the overreaction to this game.

There are no god send of gaming, game of the year or best ever games in at least 16 years or so. Even then, back then, they were that way because they started a new and fun genre, not so much anymore and not in a long, long time. However, games are fun for different people in different ways. Your opinion of overrating something is not the same as someone else's opinion of what a game is like.

I am not buying a Switch because I am not interested in mobile gaming and have not been since the original Gameboy, that I played the heck out of back in the day.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
6,000
Not as impressed with BotW but I don't like 3d Zelda games. Love Mario Odyssey, it has to be one of the best Mario games ever.

Super Smash is always fun.

Nintendo, the company that always makes fun exclusives for their consoles, but you can't help but feel they could do more and are ultimately lazy.

Still better than the shit that is xbone, what a fucking goddamn disappointment (Prior xbox lover, beta tester of Xbox live, pissed off at microcrap for that one).
 

ManofGod

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Messages
12,667
Not as impressed with BotW but I don't like 3d Zelda games. Love Mario Odyssey, it has to be one of the best Mario games ever.

Super Smash is always fun.

Nintendo, the company that always makes fun exclusives for their consoles, but you can't help but feel they could do more and are ultimately lazy.

Still better than the shit that is xbone, what a fucking goddamn disappointment (Prior xbox lover, beta tester of Xbox live, pissed off at microcrap for that one).

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa……………………………….mbulance on it's way. :D
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
6,000
Probably your best arguement ever. If Microsoft keeps pleasing you they'll bankrupt their console division.
 

ManofGod

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Messages
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Probably your best arguement ever. If Microsoft keeps pleasing you they'll bankrupt their console division.

LOL! Yeah, that must be it, nice comeback. :D I have no issues with the Xbox One when it came out, other than they eventually abandoned the Kinect. :( The Xbox One played games quite well and better than the Xbox 360. That said, I have the 360 as well and hit it up from time to time because, it is still a lot of fun. :)

Oh, and what argument are you referring too? I see the ….bulance is pulling in and waiting for you. ;)

Edit: On the original topic, I have a friend who loves the Switch and plays in quite a bit. He also has a Gaming PC and a 360.
 

Eshelmen

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
5,967
I hate to be the stickler here, but I find this report to be a bit hilarious and clearly a marketing ploy.

Wikipedia reports that within a years time, the PS4 was at 14+ million units sold world wide.

Which absolutely shits on this "first 21 month sales" Nintendo report.


1.0M (as of November 16, 2013)
2.1M (as of December 1, 2013)
4.2M (as of December 28, 2013)
5.3M (as of February 8, 2014)
6.0M (as of March 2, 2014)
7.0M (as of April 6, 2014)
10.0M (as of August 10, 2014)
14.4M (as of November 22, 2014)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4

"In its first sales announcement of 2015, Sony confirmed on January 4 that it had sold-through 18.5 million PlayStation 4 units.[177] Sony updated the sell-through figures for the system throughout 2015: over 20 million consoles as of March 3, 2015,[178] over 30 million as of November 22, 2015,[179] and over 35 million by the end of 2015.[180] As of May 22, 2016, total worldwide sell-through reached 40 million.[181] By September 2018, over 86 million consoles and more than 778 million PlayStation 4 games have been sold worldwide."


So yes, maybe outselling everyone else during the switches first 21 months, but it's no where near as strong as the PS4 for its first 21 months of release.

Why would this matter when you're roughly 80 million units behind from achieving the true title - all time sales leader for current gen consoles
 
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Uvaman2

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,143
I hate to be the stickler here, but I find this report to be a bit hilarious.

Wikipedia reports that within a years time, the PS4 was at 14+ million units sold world wide.

Which absolutely shits on this "first 21 month sales" Nintendo report.


1.0M (as of November 16, 2013)
2.1M (as of December 1, 2013)
4.2M (as of December 28, 2013)
5.3M (as of February 8, 2014)
6.0M (as of March 2, 2014)
7.0M (as of April 6, 2014)
10.0M (as of August 10, 2014)
14.4M (as of November 22, 2014)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4

"In its first sales announcement of 2015, Sony confirmed on January 4 that it had sold-through 18.5 million PlayStation 4 units.[177] Sony updated the sell-through figures for the system throughout 2015: over 20 million consoles as of March 3, 2015,[178] over 30 million as of November 22, 2015,[179] and over 35 million by the end of 2015.[180] As of May 22, 2016, total worldwide sell-through reached 40 million.[181] By September 2018, over 86 million consoles and more than 778 million PlayStation 4 games have been sold worldwide."


So yes, maybe outselling everyone else during the switches first 21 months, but it's no where near as strong as the PS4 for its first 21 months of release.

Why would this matter when you're roughly 80 million units away from achieving the true title - all time sales leader for current gen consoles
US sales... Which I think its unusual for Nintendo.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
520
There are no god send of gaming, game of the year or best ever games in at least 16 years or so. Even then, back then, they were that way because they started a new and fun genre, not so much anymore and not in a long, long time. However, games are fun for different people in different ways. Your opinion of overrating something is not the same as someone else's opinion of what a game is like.

I am not buying a Switch because I am not interested in mobile gaming and have not been since the original Gameboy, that I played the heck out of back in the day.

Talks about disqualification of a so called opinion...continues to give them..fun times

Like I said, alot of people are claiming in these forums exactly what you just disputed hence fact=overrated when a game brings nothing new to the table yet people praise it because it was the only game to play on a very anemic platform, was the game fun, yes, was it special maybe on the switch but was it special for gaming in general....no, just to some people who invested in a console with a limited selection of experiences it's like claiming the wiiU is a good console...it's not, in fact Nintendo screwed up, but be damned if the rose tinted glasses allow neophytes to see that.

BotW being a good fun game isn't in dispute because it is, what's in dispute is the continual insistence of it being this overhyped and overrated game and why it is at that state, the moment people start arguing concessions for flaws is the point people have lost the argument...we call it grasping at straws and ignoring the elephant in the room.

You can fully be in love with an overrated product and that is fine and your opinion trying to state it's more fantastic than what it truely is though and trying to force that down peoples throats as a fact is just intolerable and adds to the reasoning that these companies like Apple and Nintendo just have people so misaligned with reality.
 
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