Microsoft to Remove Ability to Install Win 11 Pro Without Being Online and Signing in to Microsoft Account

Eulogy

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As someone who uses Linux on like 90%+ devices, there are some issues. Gaming is probably the hardest part since many games don't work out of the box and if they do then it won't work online because of anti-cheat. Then there are other applications which I still have an issue getting to work perfectly like Photoshop CS6 and now Fusion 360. They work but they barely work.
Fusion360 surprised me, too. I went to use it the other day on my Ubuntu desktop, and it was a truly terrible experience. And yeah, some folks like to claim games work well under Linux -- a bunch do, for sure, more than ever before -- but a ton don't, or need kid-glove handling, and/or have worse perf than Windows. No thanks to any of that.
 

cpufrost

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Agreed. Good thing the option is still there.

I wish more people would actually read the article and make at least a tiny effort to understand what it actually says instead of just reading the headline and filling in the gaps with assumptions.

I'd like to hear from anyone, even one single person, who was actually prevented from creating a local account during the setup process on Windows 11 Pro.
I haven't been barred from SHIFT+F10 and using cmd to get to task manager on home installs so far. But if they actually block that or remove SAM altogether well that's going to piss off a LOT of people!
 

schoolslave

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The only folks I see as sensitive, are the likes of this post, and others who fear monger and post misinformation and incomplete information. Then some of us came in and posted actual facts, with supporting evidence, and that's "white knighting" and "way too sensitive". lol.

Oh please. Lets see: MS consistently (for the past few years) comes up with various (and nefarious) ways to remove local accounts altogether and make online-only accounts a requirement for installation, completely overreaches in making a TPM a requirement in the name of "security" (for whom exactly?), and finally "collaborates" (coerces) Intel and AMD (ie all future x86_64 chips) to include custom MS silicon in the form of Pluton - which in MS own marketing terms - provides "chip-to-cloud-security". Are you **really** going to suggest that people "fear-mongering" is baseless or are you just dense (or an MS employee - which tbh isn't too different)? The trend is pretty clear here - MS is pushing for less ownership and complete loss of control over your own purchases (HW, SW).
 

Eulogy

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Oh please. Lets see: MS consistently (for the past few years) comes up with various (and nefarious) ways to remove local accounts altogether and make online-only accounts a requirement for installation, completely overreaches in making a TPM a requirement in the name of "security" (for whom exactly?), and finally "collaborates" (coerces) Intel and AMD (ie all future x86_64 chips) to include custom MS silicon in the form of Pluton - which in MS own marketing terms - provides "chip-to-cloud-security". Are you **really** going to suggest that people's fear-mongering is baseless or are you just dense (or an MS employee - which tbh isn't too different)?
Well, I'll ignore the insult. That's not conductive to any kind of conversation, and last I checked against the forum rules as well. Might wanna check yourself.
There's a difference between fearmongering and fact based reporting. This is a news section on a tech heavy site. We should hold ourselves to higher standards than that. I expect more from smart folks, and I expect much more from the community here. That may be my mistake, given this type of response.

I don't have a crystal ball, so, I cannot comment on anything in the future, much less Microsoft's plans for authentication. Given that Ubuntu is my daily driver, it really has no bearing on me, either. I wouldn't be overly surprised if this comes to be in some future state. What I do know is that throwing provably false information out does not benefit anyone. If this actually becomes a real thing in a fast ring release, then that's the time to report on it, factually with supportive evidence, and make all the uproar to yell at the clouds that you perceive. Unless and until then, this kind of, er, "reporting" (I use that term here VERY loosely) only works counter to that goal.
 

zamardii12

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First I got "a genuine free copy of W10" from some dark corner of internet. It installed, but started bombing me with chinese ads. I realized Windows must be a Chinese product now..
Sooo... you don't think the first sentence is the explanation for the second sentence, or at least maybe there's a connection between the two?

Asking b/c I've setup hundreds of Win10 computers and never experienced what you just said.
 

GotNoRice

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MS consistently (for the past few years) comes up with various (and nefarious) ways to remove local accounts altogether

I have never had a local account removed or been prevented from creating a local account, ever.

and make online-only accounts a requirement for installation

Except that an online account is NOT required for installation...

completely overreaches in making a TPM a requirement in the name of "security"

Hardly any of the computers I'm currently running Windows 11 on have TPM. Bypassing the requirements is trivial, at which point even a 15+ year old computer can run windows 11 easily.

and finally "collaborates" (coerces) Intel and AMD (ie all future x86_64 chips) to include custom MS silicon in the form of Pluton - which in MS own marketing terms - provides "chip-to-cloud-security".

Maybe you can explain why this kind of collaboration is a bad thing exactly? Did you also complain when Intel forced Microsoft to include a custom scheduler to handle Intel's sudden embrace of performance cores / efficiency cores? Point is - it's a two way street and not a Microsoft conspiracy.

Are you **really** going to suggest that people "fear-mongering" is baseless or are you just dense (or an MS employee - which tbh isn't too different)? The trend is pretty clear here - MS is pushing for less ownership and complete loss of control over your own purchases (HW, SW).

I agree overall that it's a bad trend, but how come no one bitched years ago when Google and Apple started all this? If anything, Microsoft has been trailing behind in all of this (in a good way). Whereas Google and Apple are happy to force accounts on you and make you buy apps through the app store, Microsoft to this day still allows local accounts and you can install programs from wherever you want... But when they see everyone being lead around on a leash by Google and Apple, see that no one cares and still lines up to buy that next $1700 iphone, at some point you can't blame them for jumping on the bandwagon. Microsoft isn't the problem, it's the flock of sheep that are the problem. Microsoft is just a company that follows the money.
 

Domingo

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This will annoy power users and IT pros, but It will have minimal effect on the vast majority of users...hence why they did it. MS has already shown that they aren't that concerned with alienating some of their audience with Windows 11. Big data definitely seems to be the goal, even if they have to crack some eggs to get after it.
 

Shoganai

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Again, if this is anything like the Home edition, this can be bypassed still.
 

Meeho

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Windows 10 dumpster fire? Half the crap I read on here is like somebody joined a tribe and is slinging fecal matter, raging money style. Like an old man screaming to get off his lawn.
Yes, Windows 10 is worse than ME and Vista combined. I've embraced every new version of Windows since 3.11, except Vista. This is not an old man issue, it's a crappy product issue.

Also, I find it amusing how some are boasting about offline accounts, TPM not being an issue, and such, by providing cumbersome non-intuitive workarounds and hacks, and using that as proof there is nothing to see here.
 

Lakados

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This will annoy power users and IT pros, but It will have minimal effect on the vast majority of users...hence why they did it. MS has already shown that they aren't that concerned with alienating some of their audience with Windows 11. Big data definitely seems to be the goal, even if they have to crack some eggs to get after it.
It doesn’t effect us at all, the same options we have always used in Pro are still present and take us to exactly where we’ve been going for decades. The only people it effects are non pro’s who are new to it who then click personal account who will now have to click work or school, instead during the setup if they want the local only.

There’s also nothing stopping a user from using the Microsoft account to complete the setup then creating a local account to then log over to the local and remove the Microsoft one.
 

GotNoRice

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Also, I find it amusing how some are boasting about offline accounts, TPM not being an issue, and such, by providing cumbersome non-intuitive workarounds and hacks, and using that as proof there is nothing to see here.

If the 4-picture instructions I provided earlier fit your criteria of "cumbersome", then perhaps it's time to retire from real computing and buy yourself a Chromebook.

Bypassing Windows 11 requirements is a matter of deleting a single DLL file. Cumbersome? Also, even if you install with TPM enabled, without using any bypass, you can still just disable TPM right after install...
 

schoolslave

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Yes, Windows 10 is worse than ME and Vista combined. I've embraced every new version of Windows since 3.11, except Vista. This is not an old man issue, it's a crappy product issue.

Also, I find it amusing how some are boasting about offline accounts, TPM not being an issue, and such, by providing cumbersome non-intuitive workarounds and hacks, and using that as proof there is nothing to see here.

Yeah the mental gymnastics of "Linux bad because I need to edit text files for configuration" vs "Windoze good because run this random script and do all these silly things to bypass what MS wants" makes zero sense to me. Why is actively **fighting** against your OS for usability better than learning how to use an OS which respects your computing freedom.
 

schoolslave

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...
Maybe you can explain why this kind of collaboration is a bad thing exactly? Did you also complain when Intel forced Microsoft to include a custom scheduler to handle Intel's sudden embrace of performance cores / efficiency cores? Point is - it's a two way street and not a Microsoft conspiracy.
...
I agree overall that it's a bad trend, but how come no one bitched years ago when Google and Apple started all this? If anything, Microsoft has been trailing behind in all of this (in a good way). Whereas Google and Apple are happy to force accounts on you and make you buy apps through the app store, Microsoft to this day still allows local accounts and you can install programs from wherever you want... But when they see everyone being lead around on a leash by Google and Apple, see that no one cares and still lines up to buy that next $1700 iphone, at some point you can't blame them for jumping on the bandwagon. Microsoft isn't the problem, it's the flock of sheep that are the problem. Microsoft is just a company that follows the money.

It's bad because Microsoft manufactures an OS which runs on independently manufactured HW. MS has no right to control **my** general computing devices which I **choose** to (or not) run MS products on. Period. I don't disagree about Google and Apple - but the difference is that both companies ship HW+SW (and in fact I care less about MS own Surface devices). In my view MS is wildly overreaching by trying to assert control over how people use their own non-MS hardware/PCs. MS has no right to attempt to lock down general x86_64 as their own platform.

Microsoft is not just a company, they are a company with hilariously terrible business practices and ruthlessness: EEE exists for a reason.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I agree overall that it's a bad trend, but how come no one bitched years ago when Google and Apple started all this? If anything, Microsoft has been trailing behind in all of this (in a good way). Whereas Google and Apple are happy to force accounts on you and make you buy apps through the app store, Microsoft to this day still allows local accounts and you can install programs from wherever you want... But when they see everyone being lead around on a leash by Google and Apple, see that no one cares and still lines up to buy that next $1700 iphone, at some point you can't blame them for jumping on the bandwagon. Microsoft isn't the problem, it's the flock of sheep that are the problem. Microsoft is just a company that follows the money.

I think the difference there is that when Google and Apple started this years ago, there was a sense that "well, these are only phones, who cares".

Phones had a long history of being tied to contracts, and never felt as independently and absolutely "mine" as a PC you built yourself did.

Since then phones have become ever more important to every day lives, and now it is being applied to computers as well.

I'm not going to lie. I don't like Google and Apples approach either.

I would totally support legal requirements that all electronic products must have the ability to use their full functionality independent of any anyone else's server. I would also support regulation completely and totally banning the collection, use and monetization of data or information describing other people.

Google, Apple, Facebook, I don't care. All of them can burn to the ground.

I would also include cellphone carriers, internet service providers and even the government (most notably the NSA, but other branches as well, excepting maybe the court/prison system and any agency responsible for licensing of anything.) here as well, putting an end to metadata dragnets. There should be an end to facial recognition, and an end to the indiscriminate use of cameras in public places tracking peoples license plates.

Essentially any organization would be banned from collecting any data on any person without their explicit consent, and they must be provided an easy way to keep track of everyone they have given consent to, and to easily remove that consent whenever they feel like it. The only data that should be collected about a user is the data needed to make that service work for that user. This data should be prohibited from any analysis or monetization what so ever, and should be permanently removed as soon as it is no longer necessary to provide the user their service.

Furthermore personal data should not be allowed to be traded for free services. Services that are free must be provided with or without consent to use data.

Essentially the only users of personal data should be those conducting clinical trials, or research studies that benefit the public, both of which only with full informed consent.

The only other exception would be credit reporting agencies, but only for the express purpose of providing credit reports to potential lenders as requested by the individual who the data describes, not for marketing or other purposes.

All holders of personal data would also become explicitly liable (actual losses + serious damages awards) for any personal data which is lost to theft.

If any politician promises to pursue this goal, it almost doesn't matter what else they support. I would likely overnight become a single issue voter.

I wouldn't even stop there. I would require the discontinuation, destruction and deletion of any product previously created using data collected without users explicit consent, even if only as an input to machine learning algorithms.
 
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DoubleTap

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Well, I ahvent played with Windows 11 yet. Last install I did was a Windows 10 Pro install, and I don't recall having an option to choose "work or school" or anything like that. It just popped up and prompted you to log in using your microsoft account.

Had to unplug the ethernet cable and reboot and restart the install to have the local account option show up.

I'm generally of the opinion that there is no benefit to being "first" when it comes to software. While new hardware is awesome, when it comes to software it is always better to delay going with the new as long as possible. Let someone else figure out all the bugs.

I usually keep a current software version until it goes EOL (which I define as "stops receiving security patches") after which I "upgrade" to the next oldest version.

In 2021 I upgraded all of my 16.04 LTS Ubuntu server installs to 18.04 LTS, a 3 year old release. Sure, 20.04 LTS was out, as were several non-LTS releases, but generally I always want to be on the oldest supported LTS release available.

This is my philosophy as regards compatibility and stability and why I likely will not touch Windows 11 until Windows 10 goes EOL in 2025 (at which point it would be nice if I can still install it without using a Microsoft account, and if not, I guess I'll just stick to Linux and delete my Windows partitions.
Do you run your own missile base or life support systems?

My Win 10 system is used mostly for gaming, music and shopping on Amazon.

It never crashes. It never shows unwanted ads.

You seem like you have some pretty intense requirements for a computer, I just can't help but wonder what you have at stake to have such a high bar?
 

schoolslave

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Well, I'll ignore the insult. That's not conductive to any kind of conversation, and last I checked against the forum rules as well. Might wanna check yourself.

Pretty sure you meant "conducive" - but don't take my word for it, go check yourself.
 

GotNoRice

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It's bad because Microsoft manufactures an OS which runs on independently manufactured HW. MS has no right to control **my** general computing devices which I **choose** to (or not) run MS products on. Period. I don't disagree about Google and Apple - but the difference is that both companies ship HW+SW

Most android phones are NOT made by Google... Same thing with Chromebooks.
 

Eulogy

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No where. Nor did anyone say you have to run any scripts. It's called "making shit up".
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. Can't have a real discussion with folks just throwing out random things they can think of to, I guess support their "side".
MS has no right to attempt to lock down general x86_64 as their own platform.
Speaking of...
 

Meeho

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If the 4-picture instructions I provided earlier fit your criteria of "cumbersome", then perhaps it's time to retire from real computing and buy yourself a Chromebook.

Bypassing Windows 11 requirements is a matter of deleting a single DLL file. Cumbersome? Also, even if you install with TPM enabled, without using any bypass, you can still just disable TPM right after install...
One day you will realize what a miniscule proportion of computer users you belong to, along with the natural conclusion of ever increasing jump hoops companies like Microsoft make us jump through to get basic control.

Circumventing MS account hurdles is "real computing" now? I guess I really am ancient then.
 

Meeho

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Do you run your own missile base or life support systems?

My Win 10 system is used mostly for gaming, music and shopping on Amazon.

It never crashes. It never shows unwanted ads.

You seem like you have some pretty intense requirements for a computer, I just can't help but wonder what you have at stake to have such a high bar?
He must be one of those freaks that believes he should be in control of his computer and OS and not the other way around. Deranged.
 

GotNoRice

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He must be one of those freaks that believes he should be in control of his computer and OS and not the other way around. Deranged.

Somehow, the rest of us have managed to retain control of our computers and OS just fine. Are you sure the problem isn't on your end?
 

Zedicus

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You guys know SAMBA4 can be a domain controller right? So like, a Raspberry Pi with SAMBA4 installed and you could domain join all your home computers and enjoy all he other features of windows pro also. I see it as an absolute win.
 

Red Falcon

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I feel the spirit of heatlesssun is living among us.
True, and at least heatlesssun gave good reasons and helpful advice for using Microsoft products.
Also, Microsoft wasn't a megacorp, nor full 1984 and draconian, when heatlesssun was last on here which makes a massive difference between now and what things were back in the 2010s.
 
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rinaldo00

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I have been happy chap ever since I ditched MS operating system. 2003 it was, will be 20 years anniversary soon. I admit, once I wanted to try W10 out of curiosity and tried to install it in a virtual machine. First I got "a genuine free copy of W10" from some dark corner of internet. It installed, but started bombing me with chinese ads. I realized Windows must be a Chinese product now, like everything else and used "rm" command to erase the VM image. I have a little Mac just in case there is something proprietary which cannot be run on Linux or BSD. I need it rarely nowadays.
That's because your "a genuine free copy of W10" was really Chinese maleware.
 

Randall Stephens

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What do you use your computer for?

Gaming, stay windows...
Windows only Apps - stay windows...

Dont mind using Openoffice and dont play games, go get linux, it is not hard at all.
Is it hard to keep a Linux system secure? I’m sure some build are easier than others, I’m just genuinely curious.
 

MrGuvernment

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Is it hard to keep a Linux system secure? I’m sure some build are easier than others, I’m just genuinely curious.
Nope, i mean most exploits are from 3rd party apps or being exposed direct on the internet. I personally, bounce back and forth every couple months from windows 10 to mint linux. Mint linux is going to be easy, has most daily apps someone would use and is relatively secure out of the box.
 

MaZa

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I have been happy chap ever since I ditched MS operating system. 2003 it was, will be 20 years anniversary soon. I admit, once I wanted to try W10 out of curiosity and tried to install it in a virtual machine. First I got "a genuine free copy of W10" from some dark corner of internet. It installed, but started bombing me with chinese ads. I realized Windows must be a Chinese product now, like everything else and used "rm" command to erase the VM image. I have a little Mac just in case there is something proprietary which cannot be run on Linux or BSD. I need it rarely nowadays.

WTF? You must be joking and my sarcasm detector is faulting.
 

GotNoRice

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You guys know SAMBA4 can be a domain controller right? So like, a Raspberry Pi with SAMBA4 installed and you could domain join all your home computers and enjoy all he other features of windows pro also. I see it as an absolute win.

The "Domain Join" option does not require a domain or any server whatsoever setup on your network. It simply creates a local account and allows you to proceed into windows using that local account. If you actually wanted to join a domain, that is something you would do after setup. Using the "Domain Join" option doesn't lock you into joining a domain or anything like that.
 

Zedicus

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The "Domain Join" option does not require a domain or any server whatsoever setup on your network. It simply creates a local account and allows you to proceed into windows using that local account. If you actually wanted to join a domain, that is something you would do after setup. Using the "Domain Join" option doesn't lock you into joining a domain or anything like that.
yes, and that is an aside to my point. most of us have several computers in our house, maybe kids with computers, ETC. why not use SAMBA4 and AD? it is literally free, and will run on any old pc laying around, AND no more fighting local accounts.
 

Fix Me

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What do you use your computer for?

Gaming, stay windows...
Windows only Apps - stay windows...

Dont mind using Openoffice and dont play games, go get linux, it is not hard at all.
I'm mainly a gamer, so while I hear Linux has gotten better at gaming, I still seeing most saying to stick with Windows. I also have an arcade machine and a HTPC that runs KODI. I'm doing a little 4K movie ripping and while I do see there is a Beta version of MakeMKV that runs on Linux, I'm not keen on switching. If I had severe issues with Windows 10, I would consider it. I have had no issues.
 
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