Microsoft to Remove Ability to Install Win 11 Pro Without Being Online and Signing in to Microsoft Account

Mazzspeed

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Yeah, I know, but a few people have bees in their bonnets about it.
More like: People want ownership of their device without Microsoft's manipulative tactics. Using the term "Non limited account" as opposed to "Microsoft account" highlights a specific marketing angle, meaning Microsoft know that people are going to be opposed to linking their device to a "Microsoft account".

Sure, under Windows 11 Pro you can work around the underhanded measures as part of the OOBE by forcing the OS into believing you're joining a domain, but the reality is most are going to believe the only way to configure their new device is via a Microsoft account - However, with so many different variants of Windows, I wonder how long it's going to be before Microsoft cut the fat from their lineup and make Windows 11 Home their consumer oriented OS and shift Windows 11 Pro up into the realm of Windows 11 Pro for workstations. As the reality is: The vast bulk of consumers don't need an OS capable of joining a domain, and as it is Windows 10 Pro had features removed that were present upon release of the OS (ReFS anyone?).

So making blanket statements that Microsoft will change nothing under Windows 11 Pro based on nothing but hearsay doesn't hold up to historical scrutiny.

https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/microsoft-to-remove-full-refs-support-win10-pro.html
 

Lakados

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I was curious, so I followed the original link to PCGamesN, and from there to the changelog for the Insider build in question, and it does say that Pro will require internet during OOBE and that if you're setting up the machine for personal use, an MSA is required. Peoples' experience so far seems to not follow that, though.
They only require Microsoft accounts for pro installs of insider builds. Of which you need a Microsoft registered account to download said insider build so you should have no problems with providing a Microsoft account for its setup as you required one to download it. They never pushed out that feature to retail releases.
 

1_rick

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They only require Microsoft accounts for pro installs of insider builds. Of which you need a Microsoft registered account to download said insider build so you should have no problems with providing a Microsoft account for its setup as you required one to download it. They never pushed out that feature to retail releases.
That's obnoxious, but superficially kind of understandable.
 

Lakados

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That's obnoxious, but superficially kind of understandable.
But to be part of the insider program you have to agree to a crap load of things in advance many of which wave all your expectations of privacy as they make it pretty clear you are testing that OS and they want every scrap of data you generate in the process of said tests.
 

GotNoRice

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They only require Microsoft accounts for pro installs of insider builds. Of which you need a Microsoft registered account to download said insider build so you should have no problems with providing a Microsoft account for its setup as you required one to download it. They never pushed out that feature to retail releases.

It's also worth noting that even with an insider build you can still create a local account via the Domain Join option. I just get my insider builds from https://uupdump.net/ and go that route.
 

Mazzspeed

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Yes, we know, you've mentioned it every time the subject comes up.
Likewise, you've maintained an opposing point of view. You're entitled to your opinion the same way I'm entitled to mine. However, I see no reason why it's fairly safe to assume that the vast majority of Windows users making up that large hump in the bell curve have no idea what a domain even is, let alone how to utilize the functionality to bypass what is an obvious underhanded tactic by Microsoft to manipulate users into signing up for a Microsoft account at the account creation phase of the OOBE.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Linux vs Windows (bearing in mind that even Apple aren't as forceful and underhanded when it comes to MacOS and AppleID's), this has everything to do with the belief that your PC is yours to do with as you wish without the need to jump through hoops - Free from underhanded manipulation and the forceful and mysterious re-enabling of certain services when they were disabled for good reason by the owner of the device (talking about the re-enabling of the Windows update service when it was disabled for good reason).
 

Lakados

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Likewise, you've maintained an opposing point of view. You're entitled to your opinion the same way I'm entitled to mine. However, I see no reason why it's fairly safe to assume that the vast majority of Windows users making up that large hump in the bell curve have no idea what a domain even is, let alone how to utilize the functionality to bypass what is an obvious underhanded tactic by Microsoft to manipulate users into signing up for a Microsoft account at the account creation phase of the OOBE.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Linux vs Windows (bearing in mind that even Apple aren't as forceful and underhanded when it comes to MacOS and AppleID's), this has everything to do with the belief that your PC is yours to do with as you wish without the need to jump through hoops - Free from underhanded manipulation and the forceful and mysterious re-enabling of certain services when they were disabled for good reason by the owner of the device (talking about the re-enabling of the Windows update service when it was disabled for good reason).
And likewise, the bulk of Windows users have no clue about software and firmware updates and no concepts of device encryption and recovery methods. What they do know though is if they get hacked and their data is leaked because they didn't do their updates they can sue Microsoft. They also know that if they turn on device encryption then forget their password and lose their data, they can sue Microsoft for not being able to recover it. These are all things that have happened and played a large part in getting us where we are today.
The bulk of users out there absolutely need the hand-holding and rigid enforcement that Apple provides, it's the only reason those sorts of users can actually use their hardware and software reliably on a daily basis. Because Apple locks them into a very narrow hallway and doesn't let them out is the only reason their stuff continues to work for more than a few weeks given the average set of users who buy their stuff. Microsoft is finding itself with the same problem just with none of the restrictions and it is landing them in court more than not and usually on the losing side because of "reasonable expectations", Windows 7 and 8 didn't do enough to let users know the importance of their pending updates and didn't impose a sense of severity enough. So when users got viruses and their data was lost they went lawyer happy and Microsoft lost, so now they don't have an option to ignore or even really postpone updates in Windows 10 as a direct result.
The bulk of the problems that 10 and 11 have that anger us are the direct result of them being on the losing side of a lawsuit.
 

Lakados

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It's also worth noting that even with an insider build you can still create a local account via the Domain Join option. I just get my insider builds from https://uupdump.net/ and go that route.
I am skeptical of OS installs from 3’rd parties, I’m always paranoid they’ve done something to them. The Microsoft insider installs are already loaded with all sorts of monitoring and logging software that I’m already paranoid that I’m going to leak something I shouldn’t by accident. Add the idea that a 3’rd party could have added something to redirect those logs and reports and I am straight up NOPE’ing that. I’ll get my insider builds from Microsoft then use them only for the bare minimum feature and compliance testing then be done with it before I F-up and do something with it I shouldn’t.
 

GotNoRice

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I am skeptical of OS installs from 3’rd parties, I’m always paranoid they’ve done something to them. The Microsoft insider installs are already loaded with all sorts of monitoring and logging software that I’m already paranoid that I’m going to leak something I shouldn’t by accident. Add the idea that a 3’rd party could have added something to redirect those logs and reports and I am straight up NOPE’ing that. I’ll get my insider builds from Microsoft then use them only for the bare minimum feature and compliance testing then be done with it before I F-up and do something with it I shouldn’t.

Actually UUPDump just creates a batch file, the actual download is directly from the Windows Update servers. But your skepticism is understandable.
 

Mazzspeed

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And likewise, the bulk of Windows users have no clue about software and firmware updates and no concepts of device encryption and recovery methods. What they do know though is if they get hacked and their data is leaked because they didn't do their updates they can sue Microsoft. They also know that if they turn on device encryption then forget their password and lose their data, they can sue Microsoft for not being able to recover it. These are all things that have happened and played a large part in getting us where we are today.
And yet Windows is still suffers from the highest rate of infection compared to any other OS out there. Even Android, which is globally the most popular OS available, suffers a comparatively minuscule number of infections compared to Windows.

What I'd really like to see however is concrete citation that anyone has successfully sued Microsoft due to the fact their PC got infected and they lost data. Because all I can find is people pushing class action lawsuits as a result of the notoriously unreliable Windows 10 onward updating process, resulting in bricked OS installs and loss of data. Yes, things have improved since the early days of Windows 10, but I still see at least one to two Windows 10 PC's a week booting to black screens with infinitely spinning balls.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windo...-for-millions-over-lost-data-and-damaged-pcs/

EDIT: Posted wrong link.
 
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Eulogy

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And yet Windows is still suffers from the highest rate of infection compared to any OS out there. Even Android, which is globally the most popular OS available, suffers a comparatively minuscule number of infections compared to Windows.

What I'd really like to see however is concrete citation that anyone has successfully sued Microsoft due to the fact their PC got infected and they lost data. Because all I can find is people pushing class action lawsuits as a result of the notoriously unreliable Windows 10 onward updating process, resulting in bricked OS installs and loss of data. Yes, things have improved since the early days of Windows 10, but I still see at least one to two Windows 10 PC's a week booting to black screens with infinitely spinning balls.

https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/microsoft-to-remove-full-refs-support-win10-pro.html
Holy F dude, can you stop taking it so far off topic? If you wanna bash windows like this, go start a new thread or hijack any of the numerous others on that topic.
 

Doozer

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What's the problem with using a microsoft account really? I started using one when i signed up for Azure student stuff. I've never seen an ad for anything pop up. I doubt that microsoft is getting any more of my information than they already were. Not trying to make waves here. I really want to know
 

GoldenTiger

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What's the problem with using a microsoft account really? I started using one when i signed up for Azure student stuff. I've never seen an ad for anything pop up. I doubt that microsoft is getting any more of my information than they already were. Not trying to make waves here. I really want to know
Because Microsoft bad! M$! /s Lots of things require an account. It's hardly some radical new concept. Still, for now it isn't required.
 
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Sycraft

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What's the problem with using a microsoft account really? I started using one when i signed up for Azure student stuff. I've never seen an ad for anything pop up. I doubt that microsoft is getting any more of my information than they already were. Not trying to make waves here. I really want to know
I can understand people don't wanting to need an online account to use a personal system. It is something I've never really been a fan of with smartphones how it is essentially required that you have an account, even if you didn't wish to use things like their e-mail. It's not the dealbreaker some people make it out to be, I mean I'd bet everyone screaming about it has either an Andriod or iOS phone and every one of them is signed into it with a Gmail or Apple account. Still doesn't mean I think it is something that ought to be encouraged.

However at this point it does not seem to be required, it is just people stirring up nerd rage over nothing.

And likewise, the bulk of Windows users have no clue about software and firmware updates and no concepts of device encryption and recovery methods. What they do know though is if they get hacked and their data is leaked because they didn't do their updates they can sue Microsoft. They also know that if they turn on device encryption then forget their password and lose their data, they can sue Microsoft for not being able to recover it. These are all things that have happened and played a large part in getting us where we are today.
The bulk of users out there absolutely need the hand-holding and rigid enforcement that Apple provides, it's the only reason those sorts of users can actually use their hardware and software reliably on a daily basis. Because Apple locks them into a very narrow hallway and doesn't let them out is the only reason their stuff continues to work for more than a few weeks given the average set of users who buy their stuff. Microsoft is finding itself with the same problem just with none of the restrictions and it is landing them in court more than not and usually on the losing side because of "reasonable expectations", Windows 7 and 8 didn't do enough to let users know the importance of their pending updates and didn't impose a sense of severity enough. So when users got viruses and their data was lost they went lawyer happy and Microsoft lost, so now they don't have an option to ignore or even really postpone updates in Windows 10 as a direct result.
The bulk of the problems that 10 and 11 have that anger us are the direct result of them being on the losing side of a lawsuit.
I don't know that I've ever seen an actual lawsuit they've lost on it, but yes, it is because users are dumb about updates. In the 95 days you had to manually check for updates. They then made them automatic, but you had to turn on the automatic function, then they asked, then they made it default, and now it is mandatory. It is just what it takes to get users to patch their shit. Hell it is the same with sysadmins. I relentlessly patch and upgrade all our products, our servers, our storage, our switches, etc. I get plenty of sysadmins that tell me that is stupid, don't fix what isn't broken, and plenty of vendors who are delightfully surprised that they aren't being asked to support something 5 years out of date.
 

Lakados

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I don't know that I've ever seen an actual lawsuit they've lost on it, but yes, it is because users are dumb about updates.
I recall a bunch of them in the past, I also remember a number of times the CEO or some other high-ranking individuals have been pulled before congress to discuss the prevalence of Viruses on Windows to usually respond with "well yes this is happening now, but that was patched 2 months ago before this was in the wild, have you done your updates?" or "well yes that virus was discovered in the wild on this date at this time, we had a patch available by the morning of the next business day along with a lengthy document on why it was necessary, did you check your updates?"
But I agree, my systems are at worst 2 weeks behind on their update cycles as I have a few systems that I can't afford to have to down because of bad updates or the updates will take long enough that something needs to be scheduled and most departments hate unannounced non-emergancy downtime. Patches for 0-day exploits or things that are actively in the wild get escalated obviously, but the security filters on the Firewall get updated every 15 minutes on a 4h delay, meaning every 15 minutes it checks for any definition update that is greater than 4h old, and if it exists, update immediately, the system there is redundant so while it's down rebooting the second just steps up, the damned process is so smooth now the VoIP phones don't even drop a packet let alone an active call. The secondary system obviously doesn't update anything until the primary has come back online and resumed functioning. It's not a perfect system by any means, but to date it's done a good job of keeping the bad things out and when bad people do find a way in it's generally locked the sensitive stuff in so they don't get out with anything of consequence.
 

DPI

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However at this point it does not seem to be required, it is just people stirring up nerd rage over nothing.
Microsoft deliberately designing the installer to trick customers into perceiving that a local account is not an option - and an online account is the only option - is not "nothing".

It's also part of a pattern of anti-customer policy decisions and behavior that started with Windows 8 and the forced Metro crap, then hit full shit peak with people awakening to their PCs having been hijacked by Windows 10 forced installs in the middle of the night, even though they tried to block it. And in some cases suffering data loss as a result of Microsoft's desperation to force adoption.

And all this while they haven't fundamentally made the platform any better since Windows 7, instead just coasting on minor tweaks and an entrenched PC gaming base held hostage by platform lockin.

Essentially most people just tolerate Windows.
 

mullet

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Is this what paying customers want? I don't think so.

I have been with MS since win 95 was on diskettes and I liked every OS even Vista but this is out of control, sure sure there are work arounds now but why and for how long will they work.

It is very disappointing, I am wanting to build a new system and I am not sure what OS to go with. Linux as a daily driver and MS 10 for games only with zero personal data on it?
 

jfreund

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What's the problem with using a microsoft account really? I started using one when i signed up for Azure student stuff. I've never seen an ad for anything pop up. I doubt that microsoft is getting any more of my information than they already were. Not trying to make waves here. I really want to know
Same reason an always online requirement for a single player game is bullshit.
 

ChadD

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Is this what paying customers want? I don't think so.

I have been with MS since win 95 was on diskettes and I liked every OS even Vista but this is out of control, sure sure there are work arounds now but why and for how long will they work.

It is very disappointing, I am wanting to build a new system and I am not sure what OS to go with. Linux as a daily driver and MS 10 for games only with zero personal data on it?

Install Linux first. Game on it for a bit and decide if Windows is required or not.

I always recommend Manjaro for stability and gaming with no real compromise. But if your adventurous there are some non official Steam 3.0 ISOs floating around. I had hoped Valve would have an official ISO by now.
Manjaro games just as well. Might have to test one of the non official isos myself though just to see what the current steamos experience is.
 
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