List of Games Affected by DRM Issue in 12th Gen Intel Core Processors

GoodBoy

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Well if you paid $40-$90 for a game, and then weren't able to play it for a month you'd probably be annoyed. If you aren't good for you. But waiting a few weeks or a month isn't acceptable for paying customers.
Of course it sucks, but shit happens.

You might buy a game for $60 but it's release is delayed by 3 months.

You might buy a game for $60 and it's not available in your language until a month after launch.

You might buy a game for $60 that has some critical bug not discovered until launch day that takes a month to get patched.

For all I know, this particular issue may already have been patched.
 

travm

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Of course it sucks, but shit happens.

You might buy a game for $60 but it's release is delayed by 3 months.

You might buy a game for $60 and it's not available in your language until a month after launch.

You might buy a game for $60 that has some critical bug not discovered until launch day that takes a month to get patched.

For all I know, this particular issue may already have been patched.
All of these what ifs are rediculous. That gamers pay for such nonsense is mind blowing
 

Crotan

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All of these what ifs are rediculous. That gamers pay for such nonsense is mind blowing

It’s more than just games. It’s software development in general. Live service updates make the customer the beta tester. Nothing is being tested to the degree it was in the past. Deploy, wait for the screams, Patch. Whether that is that game you play for enjoyment or the software that controls your anti lock brakes.
 

ea6b123

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somehow the new Intel cpu's are top rated and recommended by some of the popular gaming websites online. Your game doesnt or might not work but this cpu kicks ass awards LOL total B S ....................
 

Shoganai

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If AMD’s new offering work with older games, there’s literally no point in going Alder Lake. Any news on that?
 

bigdogchris

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No clue if it's related, but I cancelled my ubisoft+, and it's still been working for like the past 3 days beyond my subscription. I can't add/download games that aren't already in my library, but everything in there still says my subscription is active.. And it isn't. I wonder if they turned off the DRM until they release a patch..
Funny, back in the day I canceled my Everquest subscription, only to come back several months later to find my account still active. I played for years without paying.
 

bigdogchris

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If playing a game is super important to you, adopting a brand new cpu architecture is a terrible idea. Same goes if you need to use photoshop, or any other productivity software. It’s a known risk when being an early adopter. Same for switching to Windows 11 or the new zen architect on day 1. There’s going to be issues. So you jump in and take the risk or wait it out for things to stabilize.
I think it's cute that you are assuming the issues will even be fixed. If the publishers/developers have to be the ones to patch in the fix, there's no guarantee it will happen.
 

Mchart

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Funny, back in the day I canceled my Everquest subscription, only to come back several months later to find my account still active. I played for years without paying.
I'm going on month 3 without paying, and I still have access to all the games. It's pretty cool.
 

kirbyrj

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Intel says there is supposed to be a "Windows 11 patch" in mid-November to address this. I just installed a "mid-November" patch so let me see if it works with AC: Valhalla...
 

kirbyrj

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Intel says there is supposed to be a "Windows 11 patch" in mid-November to address this. I just installed a "mid-November" patch so let me see if it works with AC: Valhalla...

I just played AC: Valhalla for over an hour with no issues and that's one of the games on the list that supposedly has problems with Windows 11 and ADL.
 

1337Goat

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The issue with piracy that many people aren't seeing is that when we think of piracy, we think of teenagers downloading movies and video games from torrents.

But when international gaming corporations think of piracy, they are actually thinking of illegal markets in crowded, second-world countries where these bootleg games are bought and sold by anyone with a DVD burner or collection of 64 GB flashdrives. Furthermore, what corporations need to deal with are game assets. The game assets need to be secure. There is too much money and jobs on the line regarding individual artists who make game assets or people who code game functions. Individual artists don't want their work stolen.

It's not merely that the game shouldn't be sold in crowded tech-alley blackmarkets, but that the game itself, and its engine and binaries need to remain secret.

Game engines are powerful tools, and it's best that binaries, engine software, and assets are fully encrypted. This encryption obviously gets in the way of classic style internet pirates, but in reality, the game corporations are targeting the OTHER pirates.

However, it could be said that disseminating game engine technology and high-quality assets might be beneficial in some ways.
 
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Flogger23m

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I'm really doubting the illegally sold copies are much of a thing anymore for games. Most people download things, I assume even in poorer countries.
 

Mchart

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I'm really doubting the illegally sold copies are much of a thing anymore for games. Most people download things, I assume even in poorer countries.
Not true in China, India, many countries. There are vendors in the markets selling the pirated games, and it’s actually the main way people get games in those markets. Fast Internet is not common either for the average person in a place like that. Further, even if you did, why bother when for 20 rupees (white persons price, BTW. It’s single digits for actual locals) you could just walk down the block and buy it already on a disc.

The culture around this stuff is just way different. Generally, people don’t give a shit they are buying copies of games somewhere like India because they don’t give two shits about the theft from western entities. It’s the same reason why the scam call centers are so rampant. They have no moral issue with stealing from westerners, and this permeates all the way up into the government whether it be China, India, etc
 
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vegeta535

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Not true in China, India, many countries. There are vendors in the markets selling the pirated games, and it’s actually the main way people get games in those markets. Fast Internet is not common either for the average person in a place like that. Further, even if you did, why bother when for 20 rupees (white persons price, BTW. It’s single digits for actual locals) you could just walk down the block and buy it already on a disc.

The culture around this stuff is just way different. Generally, people don’t give a shit they are buying copies of games somewhere like India because they don’t give two shits about the theft from western entities. It’s the same reason why the scam call centers are so rampant. They have no moral issue with stealing from westerners, and this permeates all the way up into the government whether it be China, India, etc
Back in the 90s my brother went to China and he brought me home stacks of pirated ps1 games. He paid like a $1 for each. I couldn't play them at the time since we didn't know you needed a modchip.
 

Newbie_52

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Not true in China, India, many countries. There are vendors in the markets selling the pirated games, and it’s actually the main way people get games in those markets. Fast Internet is not common either for the average person in a place like that. Further, even if you did, why bother when for 20 rupees (white persons price, BTW. It’s single digits for actual locals) you could just walk down the block and buy it already on a disc.

The culture around this stuff is just way different. Generally, people don’t give a shit they are buying copies of games somewhere like India because they don’t give two shits about the theft from western entities. It’s the same reason why the scam call centers are so rampant. They have no moral issue with stealing from westerners, and this permeates all the way up into the government whether it be China, India, etc
This leads me to believe that drm doesn't actually work then. And the people buying these off the streets probably would have never have paid retail price anyways.
 

Mchart

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This leads me to believe that drm doesn't actually work then. And the people buying these off the streets probably would have never have paid retail peice
It absolutely works for western markets for big games. I say this because piracy has gone way down since the DRM has gotten way harder to crack day 1, and people want the game day 1 so they’ll just buy it. Plus, it’s not like it used to be where you had to buy the physical copy from a store. The online purchasing is just so easy now.

I agree, in markets like India it does nothing. This is why online only F2P games make so much more money world wide. They can extract wealth from even the poorest people of the world with shitty skins or just making them watch ads.
 

oldmanbal

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I never purchased a game with denuvo, if i can't actually own a game I pay for, why am i giving you my money?
 

Ebernanut

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It absolutely works for western markets for big games. I say this because piracy has gone way down since the DRM has gotten way harder to crack day 1, and people want the game day 1 so they’ll just buy it. Plus, it’s not like it used to be where you had to buy the physical copy from a store. The online purchasing is just so easy now.

I agree, in markets like India it does nothing. This is why online only F2P games make so much more money world wide. They can extract wealth from even the poorest people of the world with shitty skins or just making them watch ads.
I haven't seen anything that makes me think that piracy is down anywhere, in fact most of what I've seen indicates the opposite. There has never been any indication that there's a large crossover between pirates and those willing to pay launch prices, most that do fall into both groups are the try before they buy group that is less likely to buy if it isn't cracked quickly. The games that people really want to play day one also tend to be multiplayer games that can use the online portion to protect against piracy more effectively.

DRM that takes a couple days to a couple weeks before it's cracked will still only stop the most casual of pirates and I'd be willing to bet that they're outnumbered by those that refuse to buy games with denuvo. I'm not quite that strict but I refuse to pay anywhere near full price for a game with denuvo which with my backlog constantly growing it's not difficult to wait until a game hits whatever price I think it's worth.

The only studies I'm aware of that have actually looked at the effects of piracy have found a net positive effect on sales. The studies were for music sales but most of the reasons they gave would also apply to games, the biggest being word of mouth where one person pirates and then tells several friends about it who then buy it.
 

Mchart

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I haven't seen anything that makes me think that piracy is down anywhere, in fact most of what I've seen indicates the opposite. There has never been any indication that there's a large crossover between pirates and those willing to pay launch prices, most that do fall into both groups are the try before they buy group that is less likely to buy if it isn't cracked quickly. The games that people really want to play day one also tend to be multiplayer games that can use the online portion to protect against piracy more effectively.

DRM that takes a couple days to a couple weeks before it's cracked will still only stop the most casual of pirates and I'd be willing to bet that they're outnumbered by those that refuse to buy games with denuvo. I'm not quite that strict but I refuse to pay anywhere near full price for a game with denuvo which with my backlog constantly growing it's not difficult to wait until a game hits whatever price I think it's worth.

The only studies I'm aware of that have actually looked at the effects of piracy have found a net positive effect on sales. The studies were for music sales but most of the reasons they gave would also apply to games, the biggest being word of mouth where one person pirates and then tells several friends about it who then buy it.
I haven't seen any studies, but I remember most people pirating games back in the floppy and CD days. Once the games started to be more multiplayer oriented and had CD-Keys attached, you couldn't even pirate with any real success since you were playing cd-key musical chairs and hoping the master server wouldn't kick you. Further, ISP's have generally made it a lot harder for the average idiot to even find where you download warez these days.

Couple that with the fact that the games just aren't as easily cracked day 1 anymore, and i'm certain piracy is down in western countries.
 

GoldenTiger

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I haven't seen any studies, but I remember most people pirating games back in the floppy and CD days. Once the games started to be more multiplayer oriented and had CD-Keys attached, you couldn't even pirate with any real success since you were playing cd-key musical chairs and hoping the master server wouldn't kick you. Further, ISP's have generally made it a lot harder for the average idiot to even find where you download warez these days.

Couple that with the fact that the games just aren't as easily cracked day 1 anymore, and i'm certain piracy is down in western countries.
Yep. Regarding day 1 cracks not being available easily, the pirates often suffer from fear of missing out and end up buying it instead.
 

Ebernanut

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I haven't seen any studies, but I remember most people pirating games back in the floppy and CD days. Once the games started to be more multiplayer oriented and had CD-Keys attached, you couldn't even pirate with any real success since you were playing cd-key musical chairs and hoping the master server wouldn't kick you. Further, ISP's have generally made it a lot harder for the average idiot to even find where you download warez these days.

Couple that with the fact that the games just aren't as easily cracked day 1 anymore, and i'm certain piracy is down in western countries.
Again, I don't see that and it sounds like you haven't been anywhere that freely discusses piracy in quite a while*. From what I've seen most pirates do it based on a warped principle where they see it as sticking it to the big evil corps, the next biggest group are people that can't really afford to buy them, and the last group is the try before they buy group. The first group will never buy them, the second might occasionally buy games in the bargain bin, and the third group is less likely to buy if DRM gets in the way.

The day one crowd are often those that really like a series or publisher and most likely want support the game or are young and impatient which means they are likely either spending there parents money(in which case they don't care) or they probably don't have the money.

Early sales ARE the only real argument in favor of drm but I don't think it's a good one and still doesn't justify the anti-consumer nature of drm.


*It's not my scene at all but it's the best place to learn about DRM like denuvo which interests me on an academic level. Edit: And not hard to find at all as long as you don't use google.
 

Mchart

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Again, I don't see that and it sounds like you haven't been anywhere that freely discusses piracy in quite a while*. From what I've seen most pirates do it based on a warped principle where they see it as sticking it to the big evil corps, the next biggest group are people that can't really afford to buy them, and the last group is the try before they buy group. The first group will never buy them, the second might occasionally buy games in the bargain bin, and the third group is less likely to buy if DRM gets in the way.

The day one crowd are often those that really like a series or publisher and most likely want support the game or are young and impatient which means they are likely either spending there parents money(in which case they don't care) or they probably don't have the money.

Early sales ARE the only real argument in favor of drm but I don't think it's a good one and still doesn't justify the anti-consumer nature of drm.


*It's not my scene at all but it's the best place to learn about DRM like denuvo which interests me on an academic level. Edit: And not hard to find at all as long as you don't use google.
Of course there's still people that do it. I really don't agree that the average person is doing it as much as they used to. It's no different then pirating music, movies, etc. The average person in the US just doesn't do it anymore. They've got spotify, amazon, etc. It's not like it was in the 90's or early/mid 2000's where even average people were downloading shit en masse from Limewire, etc. Piracy has gone way done across the board in the west. Obviously, you've got websites like nfo*, etc, that still do all that, but that does not represent the average person.
 

Ebernanut

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Of course there's still people that do it. I really don't agree that the average person is doing it as much as they used to. It's no different then pirating music, movies, etc. The average person in the US just doesn't do it anymore. They've got spotify, amazon, etc. It's not like it was in the 90's or early/mid 2000's where even average people were downloading shit en masse from Limewire, etc. Piracy has gone way done across the board in the west. Obviously, you've got websites like nfo*, etc, that still do all that, but that does not represent the average person.
I don't think most average people ever really pirated games, limewire and others were primarily for music and many using those services didn't even understand that they were pirating. I think it's generally the same demographics that have always pirated, though the individuals often change as it's something that many grow out of due to financial or philosophical changes.

It is more accessible than ever with file sharing sites; back in the day you had physically exchange media, use a newsgroup subscription, or use torrents. I've also stumbled across massive and extremely active forums that are dedicated to piracy so I really don't think it's gone down and if anything has probably gone up though much of the increase has likely come from countries that weren't even a market for them in the past.
 

Flogger23m

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Not true in China, India, many countries. There are vendors in the markets selling the pirated games, and it’s actually the main way people get games in those markets. Fast Internet is not common either for the average person in a place like that. Further, even if you did, why bother when for 20 rupees (white persons price, BTW. It’s single digits for actual locals) you could just walk down the block and buy it already on a disc.

The culture around this stuff is just way different. Generally, people don’t give a shit they are buying copies of games somewhere like India because they don’t give two shits about the theft from western entities. It’s the same reason why the scam call centers are so rampant. They have no moral issue with stealing from westerners, and this permeates all the way up into the government whether it be China, India, etc

These days most games require a Steam account or something. So unless they're selling whatever cracked version they downloaded, it isn't anything different than downloading it from a torrent. Just a middle man who has to cover the costs of a crap load of DVDs (Must be 5-8 for a modern game). Of course they'll also make a bit of profit, but generally if that is still cheaper than using a torrent I don't think those were lost sales. Those people weren't going to legally get the game in the first place due to cost or internet restrictions.
 

chameleoneel

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These days most games require a Steam account or something. So unless they're selling whatever cracked version they downloaded, it isn't anything different than downloading it from a torrent. Just a middle man who has to cover the costs of a crap load of DVDs (Must be 5-8 for a modern game). Of course they'll also make a bit of profit, but generally if that is still cheaper than using a torrent I don't think those were lost sales. Those people weren't going to legally get the game in the first place due to cost or internet restrictions.
I.....you basically restated the overarching point?

Also, modern pirates package up games with compression, so that they take up 1/2 or less of disc space ;) and they decompress to full size.
 
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