Link your Epic Games account to your PSN account? You're now locked out of every other platform.

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
Along with the announcement that Fortnite was coming to the Switch, people quickly discovered that if you linked your PSN account to your Epic Games account that you will not be able to use it on that version of the game.

Okay, so just unlink your PSN account? Nope, you're still locked out. The only solution is to create a new account. Which means all the microtransactions you bought on the original account you'd have to buy again, and nothing you buy carries over between the two.

7bXDUIV.jpg


upload_2018-6-13_9-13-25.png


https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/...ross-play-sony-ps4-microsoft-xbox-one-e3-2018

Originally blew up in a Reddit thread:
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
I still don't see why people think cross play between consoles and PC's is a good thing?


More easy targets i guess?
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
I still don't see why people think cross play between consoles and PC's is a good thing?


More easy targets i guess?
To keep a single player base that remains strong throughout the life of the game. Quickly dwindling player counts, particularly on PC, is a real problem.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
Console users may want to be able to play on their Switch so they aren't tethered to the TV?


Explain how this post has anything related to what i said "I still don't see why people think cross play between consoles and PC's is a good thing?"



????


i'm so confused
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
To keep a single player base that remains strong throughout the life of the game. Quickly dwindling player counts, particularly on PC, is a real problem.

A problem for epic, or a problem for the gamers. I just don't see the fun getting dominated by unfair competition.
 

BigJayDogg3

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
1,676
A problem for epic, or a problem for the gamers. I just don't see the fun getting dominated by unfair competition.
I don't get why everyone feels this is difficult to balance. Console shooters usually have some minor auto-aim that PCs don't. Combine that with slight damage increases, and you fairly well negate the aiming advantage PCs have by making consoles stronger. After that throw in a ranking system to keep players of certain skill levels/KDR/wins/time alive/etc contained within their groups. Ultimately you'll wind up with a system that's going to match up people on roughly the same level.

Will it take a few iterations before everything is properly balanced? Absolutely, but in games like Overwatch they're constantly adjusting and tweaking character classes to keep them balanced. Changing multipliers on the back end is nothing new.
 

ND40oz

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
12,609
Explain how this post has anything related to what i said "I still don't see why people think cross play between consoles and PC's is a good thing?"



????


i'm so confused

Cross platform play is just an excuse to cover up the real issue with what Sony is doing with account linking. With Sony locking a players Epic account to only their platform they're preventing players from using that Epic account on any other platform. Even without cross platform play, players cannot use their accounts on the Switch once they've linked it to their PSN account.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
A problem for epic, or a problem for the gamers. I just don't see the fun getting dominated by unfair competition.
A problem for gamers. The developer and publisher get paid either way.

If you're worried about "unfair competition," then there can be options to only get matched with other console players and/or controller users. Rocket League already has this option.
I don't get why everyone feels this is difficult to balance. Console shooters usually have some minor auto-aim that PCs don't. Combine that with slight damage increases, and you fairly well negate the aiming advantage PCs have by making consoles stronger. After that throw in a ranking system to keep players of certain skill levels/KDR/wins/time alive/etc contained within their groups. Ultimately you'll wind up with a system that's going to match up people on roughly the same level.

Will it take a few iterations before everything is properly balanced? Absolutely, but in games like Overwatch they're constantly adjusting and tweaking character classes to keep them balanced. Changing multipliers on the back end is nothing new.
Developers could also simply keep keyboard and mouse support on their console versions. Both the XB1 and PS4 support mouse and keyboard now.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
Cross platform play is just an excuse to cover up the real issue with what Sony is doing with account linking. With Sony locking a players Epic account to only their platform they're preventing players from using that Epic account on any other platform. Even without cross platform play, players cannot use their accounts on the Switch once they've linked it to their PSN account.

What proof do you have that this is an issue with Sony? And not an issue with crossplay.

Sony protecting me from PC players is a good thing, epic not letting the accounts work would be their fault, not Sony’s.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
I don't get why everyone feels this is difficult to balance. Console shooters usually have some minor auto-aim that PCs don't. Combine that with slight damage increases, and you fairly well negate the aiming advantage PCs have by making consoles stronger. After that throw in a ranking system to keep players of certain skill levels/KDR/wins/time alive/etc contained within their groups. Ultimately you'll wind up with a system that's going to match up people on roughly the same level.

Will it take a few iterations before everything is properly balanced? Absolutely, but in games like Overwatch they're constantly adjusting and tweaking character classes to keep them balanced. Changing multipliers on the back end is nothing new.

Lol


Sure, controller based players are super competitive.
 

ND40oz

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
12,609
What proof do you have that this is an issue with Sony? And not an issue with crossplay.

Sony protecting me from PC players is a good thing, epic not letting the accounts work would be their fault, not Sony’s.

Sony protecting you from using your Epic account on any other platform is a good thing, lol...

original.jpg
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
Developers could also simply keep keyboard and mouse support on their console versions. Both the XB1 and PS4 support mouse and keyboard now.

I've played with a guy that does that, he's pretty good. Unfortunately the frame rate caps on ps4 still makes close shotgun battles difficult according to him... although i suspect still better than with a controller based on the number of times he blasts people in the back of the head as they desperately try to turn around.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
Sony protecting you from using your Epic account on any other platform is a good thing, lol...

View attachment 81095


You still know for a fact this is sony blocking you? Sony has just blocked crossplay, this could very well be a limitation of Epic games account creation process and not Sony.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
What proof do you have that this is an issue with Sony? And not an issue with crossplay.

Sony protecting me from PC players is a good thing, epic not letting the accounts work would be their fault, not Sony’s.
It's because the Battle Pass on the PS4 version is tied to PSN. The only way for Epic to not allow purchases from PSN to be used on other platforms was to outright block PSN users since the Epic Games account is global.

Sony's official stance is they're protecting the children, but we all know that they're just asserting their market dominance in consoles.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-cross-play-with-xbox-one-and-nintendo-switch
I've played with a guy that does that, he's pretty good. Unfortunately the frame rate caps on ps4 still makes close shotgun battles difficult according to him... although i suspect still better than with a controller based on the number of times he blasts people in the back of the head as they desperately try to turn around.
As far as I know there are no games on either console right now that supports mouse and keyboard input. The limitation is from whatever adapter he was using, since it is simply translating the mouse input to joystick input.
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
It's because the Battle Pass on the PS4 version is tied to PSN. The only way for Epic to not allow purchases from PSN to be used on other platforms was to outright block PSN users since the Epic Games account is global.

Sony's official stance is they're protecting the children, but we all know that they're just asserting their market dominance in consoles.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-cross-play-with-xbox-one-and-nintendo-switch

As far as I know there are no games on either console right now that supports mouse and keyboard input. The limitation is from whatever adapter he was using, since it is simply translating the mouse input to joystick input.

Is that a real thing? Maybe dude is FOS
 

BiH115

Gif Guy
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
9,327
I've played with a guy that does that, he's pretty good. Unfortunately the frame rate caps on ps4 still makes close shotgun battles difficult according to him... although i suspect still better than with a controller based on the number of times he blasts people in the back of the head as they desperately try to turn around.

Not really adding anything of value to the thread, but regarding competitive play specifically, I know many players that use controllers even on PC's that absolutely wreck me and a lot of players using mice/keyboards. It's unfathomable to me just how that's possible, but it's quite a sight to see.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,998
I still don't see why people think cross play between consoles and PC's is a good thing?


More easy targets i guess?

Maybe they have friends that don't have one or the other? At least it's SOME way to play together. What's the point in locking them out? As long as you know who you're playing with, why not? I do think maybe a tag is in order, so if there's a server full of PC players, console players know what they're getting themselves into. Simply state how many of each are in a given match, and it's fine.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,798
There's a whole generation of players that grew up on pads and would rather no play that sit at a desk and use a typewriter pad and a mouse. That's in-spite of the mouse literally being designed to point at things quickly...which is sadly all most shooters focus on anyway.
I do think some of them would surprise you, especially if the game has any level of aim assist baked in.
Personally, I want cross-play with everything and couldn't care less what controls anyone else is using. It only matters in a couple genres anyway.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,998
There's a whole generation of players that grew up on pads and would rather no play that sit at a desk and use a typewriter pad and a mouse. That's in-spite of the mouse literally being designed to point at things quickly...which is sadly all most shooters focus on anyway.
I do think some of them would surprise you, especially if the game has any level of aim assist baked in.
Personally, I want cross-play with everything and couldn't care less what controls anyone else is using. It only matters in a couple genres anyway.

I've definitely been surprised by a few pad-players in my time. I could tell by their specific styles of movements, but that aside, they played amazingly well. I'd say the majority would probably lose to a semi-decent PC+M+KB player, but there are definitely some out there. There are plenty of games I prefer a gamepad and a TV for, but shooters are not generally the ones. 3rd person maybe, and I can "get by" on a single player first person game if I really want to sit back and play, but in general...
 

Brian_B

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,356
I don't understand how Sony can have any more sway over the account once it's been de-linked from Playstation. That seems like an oversite on Epic's part. I'm sure it's some contractual legal BS, but doesn't make a lot of sense.

Granted, I think there should be open cross platform play for everything - who cares if it's fair, that isn't the point. It puts the choice in the hands of the player as to what they feel comfortable playing on, and gets the specific tech out of the way.

It's obviously a money play - they don't want people buying content on the Switch online store (or XB, or whatever), and then being able to use that in their ecosystem without getting their cut of the money. But once you've delisted the account with Playstation, that isn't possible anymore. Then Sony could restrict re-linking with some form of console exclusivity. But that would be the common sense approach, and often these contracts are anything but.

I know it's Sony pulling this BS now, but it wasn't that long ago that Microsoft was doing the same crap on the 360.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,998
I don't understand how Sony can have any more sway over the account once it's been de-linked from Playstation. That seems like an oversite on Epic's part. I'm sure it's some contractual legal BS, but doesn't make a lot of sense.

Granted, I think there should be open cross platform play for everything - who cares if it's fair, that isn't the point. It puts the choice in the hands of the player as to what they feel comfortable playing on, and gets the specific tech out of the way.

It's obviously a money play - they don't want people buying content on the Switch online store (or XB, or whatever), and then being able to use that in their ecosystem without getting their cut of the money. But once you've delisted the account with Playstation, that isn't possible anymore. Then Sony could restrict re-linking with some form of console exclusivity. But that would be the common sense approach, and often these contracts are anything but.

I know it's Sony pulling this BS now, but it wasn't that long ago that Microsoft was doing the same crap on the 360.

This is very likely what it is. However, really how hard would it be to allow the base game, and only additions that you bought on that platform's shop? Not anymore difficult than your platform's shop already knowing what you have an haven't purchased.

So the solution is simple. Allow cross-play, but you don't bring your items from one platform to the other. If you want to buy something, you buy it on all of them, or only have it on one.

Sure that's not the GREATEST solution for the player, but it also doesn't artificially lock them out of playing with people on other systems.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,798
I've definitely been surprised by a few pad-players in my time. I could tell by their specific styles of movements, but that aside, they played amazingly well. I'd say the majority would probably lose to a semi-decent PC+M+KB player, but there are definitely some out there. There are plenty of games I prefer a gamepad and a TV for, but shooters are not generally the ones. 3rd person maybe, and I can "get by" on a single player first person game if I really want to sit back and play, but in general...

I actually play everything on a pad these days. Shooters included. The only game I've played via KB/M in the last 5 years was the new Doom. I'm still very much a believer that the mouse is better for twitchy "aim is the only thing that matters" shooters, but the genre seems to be moving away from that outside of the new Unreal Tournament and Doom games. Well, that and people playing the CS games.
I'm not sure aim assist could ever even those games out completely, but they're a tiny subgenre now. If someone wants to try playing them with a pad vs. mousers, I say let 'em try. I bet some people could still hang better than you might think. Why block it completely?
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,998
I actually play everything on a pad these days. Shooters included. The only game I've played via KB/M in the last 5 years was the new Doom. I'm still very much a believer that the mouse is better for twitchy "aim is the only thing that matters" shooters, but the genre seems to be moving away from that outside of the new Unreal Tournament and Doom games. Well, that and people playing the CS games.
I'm not sure aim assist could ever even those games out completely, but they're a tiny subgenre now. If someone wants to try playing them with a pad vs. mousers, I say let 'em try. I bet some people could still hang better than you might think. Why block it completely?

Yeah, I'm definitely in favor of NOT blocking platforms or control methods. I think maybe it would be helpful for that information to be available to those joining a server or match, but that's about it.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
I actually play everything on a pad these days. Shooters included. The only game I've played via KB/M in the last 5 years was the new Doom. I'm still very much a believer that the mouse is better for twitchy "aim is the only thing that matters" shooters, but the genre seems to be moving away from that outside of the new Unreal Tournament and Doom games. Well, that and people playing the CS games.
I'm not sure aim assist could ever even those games out completely, but they're a tiny subgenre now. If someone wants to try playing them with a pad vs. mousers, I say let 'em try. I bet some people could still hang better than you might think. Why block it completely?
"...but the genre seems to be moving away from that..."
How so? The only games I prefer a controller with are games like the Arkham and Souls series. Everything else I play is with keyboard and mouse. I don't understand why people have this idea in their head that third person = controller. The Tomb Raider games in particular are much better with keyboard and mouse.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,798
"...but the genre seems to be moving away from that..."
How so? The only games I prefer a controller with are games like the Arkham and Souls series. Everything else I play is with keyboard and mouse. I don't understand why people have this idea in their head that third person = controller. The Tomb Raider games in particular are much better with keyboard and mouse.

I think they're moving away from twitchyness across the board. Both 3rd person and 1st person games. I found Tomb Raider to be a breeze on a pad. Pinpoint aiming doesn't really matter that much. It's not like Counter-Strike where perfect shooting matters or Doom where you have 100 enemies on all sides. You have plenty of time to aim and the game is liberal with what it considers to be a precision shot. Games like Gears, Destiny, Far Cry, GTA, Resident Evil, etc. aren't really any easier or different with twitch aiming because that's not the focus. That even carries over to Battlefield and Call of Duty. Games are starting to be more tactical or focused on up-close action rather than just focusing on the quickest mouser. I have a decent mouse/keyboard setup I rarely use just because I don't need to. I'd rather use a pad and I like that I can use it for everything and not feel handicapped.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,843
Sony issued a response that affirms they're using their market dominance as excuse:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/14/17462932/fortnite-nintendo-switch-block-sony-response-comment

We’re always open to hearing what the PlayStation community is interested in to enhance their gaming experience. Fortnite is already a huge hit with PS4 fans, offering a true free-to-play experience so gamers can jump in and play online. With 79 million PS4s sold around the world and more than 80 million monthly active users on PlayStation Network, we’ve built a huge community of gamers who can play together on Fortnite and all online titles. We also offer Fortnite cross-play support with PC, Mac, iOS, and Android devices, expanding the opportunity for Fortnite fans on PS4 to play with even more gamers on other platforms.

upload_2018-6-14_11-46-12.png
 

Verge

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
7,366
I actually play everything on a pad these days. Shooters included. The only game I've played via KB/M in the last 5 years was the new Doom. I'm still very much a believer that the mouse is better for twitchy "aim is the only thing that matters" shooters, but the genre seems to be moving away from that outside of the new Unreal Tournament and Doom games. Well, that and people playing the CS games.
I'm not sure aim assist could ever even those games out completely, but they're a tiny subgenre now. If someone wants to try playing them with a pad vs. mousers, I say let 'em try. I bet some people could still hang better than you might think. Why block it completely?

Building more of an advantage in fort and aim even.
 

Kongar

Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
740
What worries me most about this is the “after the fact” commandeering of my account. What’s next? My blizzard account because I linked it when I played D3 on PS4? Forget ever playing another blizzard game on another console? EA? Screw EA but I know I’ve logged into that account once for something. This seems borderline illegal to me, I never agreed to Sony having control over those accounts (to the best of my knowledge). I hope there are dire consequences for Sony and to some extent Epic for this.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,998
John Smedley, former CEO of SOE, tells it like it is: the board didn't like the idea of someone buying an item on Xbox and being able to use it on PlayStation.

https://gamerant.com/sony-ps4-crossplay-block-reason-money/

Which actually makes sense for content bought on that platform. They should not be able to hijack your Epic account though. They should simply associate the products you bought on the PS4 with your Sony account, and call it good. One should still be able to log into any platform at all to play the game, just not with the items purchased on the other platform. I mean, ideally, yes, those too, but at least don't hijack the Epic account. That's stupid.
 

Jerry_t

n00b
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
6
In all of this its the consumer who suffers. In an ideal world all games would be cross play but that may not be practical. If Sony is worried about purchases of items and potential loss of money from sales going to other companies, then they should at least release the accounts they have taken hostage and keep the dlc.
 

Denpepe

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,114
In all of this its the consumer who suffers. In an ideal world all games would be cross play but that may not be practical. If Sony is worried about purchases of items and potential loss of money from sales going to other companies, then they should at least release the accounts they have taken hostage and keep the dlc.

I'm sure there might be an uptick in sales if they allowed crossplay to offset some of the loss from dlc sales, on the other hand they can't realy curate everything since part of the player base falls outside of their ecosystem and then they have to rely on the developper to do this correctly to their standards.

In any case Sony should at least warn players their epic account would be locked to the PS ecosystem b4 actually doing it. It's not hard to create a new/different account for use on the PS4 only, base game is free anyways.
 

atom

Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
851
Epic should just make it so you can't link existing counts to PS4, only new ones.
 
Top