LHR for current gen cards are a horrible idea

Koldur

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In fairness, it was poorly coded. They didn't cap the framerates on the menus and it was pushing pixels at something silly like 600+ FPS when it was completely unnecessary IIRC.
That is true, but still isn't the issue. Software shouldn't be able to break hardware, especially current GPU's as they have all kinds of protections implemented. EVGA has made an official statement that it was their manufacturing that failed.
 

noko

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How does that indicate otherwise?
It is not mining breaking cards left and right, New World exposing or destroying cards shows how harsh actual gaming can be on Hardware. It is not just New World that folks broke their cards on and not random as in all video cards but specific models can have issues with certain games. Mining is normally a more consistent, lower power level load, more consistent temperature (less expanding and contracting due to rapid temperature changes putting stress on solder joints). Does it point to a weakness in the design, as in EVGA FTW cards, I think it does, noted imbalance of VRM loading via pcie power connectors, poor manufacturing as in solder joints, bad selection or cheaper parts etc.

In other words, a mining card maybe in much better shape than a video card thrashed with varying high workloads from gaming.
 

Sycraft

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It is not mining breaking cards left and right, New World exposing or destroying cards shows how harsh actual gaming can be on Hardware. It is not just New World that folks broke their cards on and not random as in all video cards but specific models can have issues with certain games. Mining is normally a more consistent, lower power level load, more consistent temperature (less expanding and contracting due to rapid temperature changes putting stress on solder joints). Does it point to a weakness in the design, as in EVGA FTW cards, I think it does, noted imbalance of VRM loading via pcie power connectors, poor manufacturing as in solder joints, bad selection or cheaper parts etc.

In other words, a mining card maybe in much better shape than a video card thrashed with varying high workloads from gaming.
So your argument is I should mine, but not game? No. I bought the card for gaming. I wouldn't have bothered to spend the time and money otherwise. If it breaks while gaming, I'll be annoyed but there you go it broke doing what it was bought for. If I mine with it, all that does is waste natural resources and put additional strain on the card it would not normally have. So I see no reason to do it. The money is not enough to be attractive.
 

ChosenUno

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Mining is a stable, well-optimised, almost no gotchas. If you're not being stupid with it (crazy overclocks and high temps) then I believe mining cards fare much better long term than gaming cards, just because miners are more tech-literate and they prioritize efficiency above all else, which also counts on resale value. Gamers treat their cards much more harshly.
 

kirbyrj

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So your argument is I should mine, but not game? No. I bought the card for gaming. I wouldn't have bothered to spend the time and money otherwise. If it breaks while gaming, I'll be annoyed but there you go it broke doing what it was bought for. If I mine with it, all that does is waste natural resources and put additional strain on the card it would not normally have. So I see no reason to do it. The money is not enough to be attractive.

Actually, it sounds like his argument was that gaming breaks cards just as easily (or more frequently as the case may be) as your "additional strain" from mining does. Either way, that video I posted earlier is worth looking at because it references the "additional strain" that doesn't exist.

The money might not be attractive TO YOU, but to others who just spent $1000 on a video card, the prospect of making back a couple bucks a day is attractive. If you run a 3080Ti for 16 hours a day you'd probably be looking at $4/day. Then multiply that times 365 and you end up with $1460. So people who "bought the card for gaming" can still game for 8 hours a day and pay for the card in its spare time.

Not to mention the people who mined in spare time years ago. The $3-4 a day I was making years ago is now worth the equivalent of $30-40 a day now due to the appreciation of the crypto space. Who is to say that there isn't more room to grow? The $4 a day mined with a 3080Ti "gaming" card in it's off time could be worth a lot of money in 5 years for those that just hold for later.
 

Sycraft

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Actually, it sounds like his argument was that gaming breaks cards just as easily (or more frequently as the case may be) as your "additional strain" from mining does. Either way, that video I posted earlier is worth looking at because it references the "additional strain" that doesn't exist.

The money might not be attractive TO YOU, but to others who just spent $1000 on a video card, the prospect of making back a couple bucks a day is attractive. If you run a 3080Ti for 16 hours a day you'd probably be looking at $4/day. Then multiply that times 365 and you end up with $1460. So people who "bought the card for gaming" can still game for 8 hours a day and pay for the card in its spare time.
Right... and I was replaying FOR ME. As the poster I originally replied to noted, for some people the money is just not that attractive. Not everyone wants to mine, nor are the returns form it quite as easy and as guaranteed as people like to make them out to be which makes it even less attractive to some. I'm not saying nobody wants to mine, I'm supporting the notion that some people who can afford high end hardware don't care. Also I personally don't want to put additional load on it that isn't needed because, working in IT, I do know that pushing high end silicon to the max 24/7 can cause it to die faster than if it sits idle or off most of the time. So that's why I do what I do.
 

kirbyrj

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Right... and I was replaying FOR ME. As the poster I originally replied to noted, for some people the money is just not that attractive. Not everyone wants to mine, nor are the returns form it quite as easy and as guaranteed as people like to make them out to be which makes it even less attractive to some. I'm not saying nobody wants to mine, I'm supporting the notion that some people who can afford high end hardware don't care. Also I personally don't want to put additional load on it that isn't needed because, working in IT, I do know that pushing high end silicon to the max 24/7 can cause it to die faster than if it sits idle or off most of the time. So that's why I do what I do.

Who says mining on a graphics card pushes it to the max? This isn't 2014... I rarely use 60% of a cards potential power availability when mining.

And working in IT, I would think you would agree with the notion that mining at a constant power draw and temperature is better for silicon than the dramatic changes in temperature associated with rendering different scenes in games. I would think an hour playing a game is worse for a video card than a week of mining if you are monitoring the power draw and temps. I mean yes if it was idle or off it would be the best for the hardware, but what is the point of buying hardware if you're not going to use it? If a GPU is designed to handle the changes in power and temperature efficiently, it is no wonder that after 3 years of constant mining LTT showed that there was no degradation in a card's performance for gaming.

And I guess I would be in the other camp. I can afford high-end hardware, and I still find it worthwhile to mine. I don't go crazy and set up racks of gpus, but it makes sense to me to use an otherwise idle piece of hardware to make side money.
 

Sycraft

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And I guess I would be in the other camp. I can afford high-end hardware, and I still find it worthwhile to mine. I don't go crazy and set up racks of gpus, but it makes sense to me to use an otherwise idle piece of hardware to make side money.
I'm not going to tell you that you can't, but I agree with the guy I responded to: I don't care about the small potential returns so I don't do it.
 

Sycraft

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Oh? I'm happy to have all returns I can get :) my 3090FE paid itself off in 3 months.
And if you can offer me some kind of guarantee of returns like that and ability to access them, I might consider it. That's not the case though.
 

lopoetve

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You'd be crazy not to mine as a gamer, especially if you have a RTX 3080. That card earns some $8/day, and say you game 12 hours per day, that's $4/day, $120/month, nearly $3000/2 years, which is when you'd have a free top end video card every new gen! Or two RTX 4080, or a brand new high end computer.
Or a brand new computer. Hating on mining as a gamer is stupid.
Depends on your financial situation.
 

ChosenUno

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And if you can offer me some kind of guarantee of returns like that and ability to access them, I might consider it. That's not the case though.

You literally just have to do some sign ups, download a program or two, and profit... What the heck do you want?
 

kirbyrj

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IMG_20180123_144325.jpg


Here's a picture of me running NH in January 2018 (with maybe an AMD 7950). That $7.09/day is worth $34.41/day now in less than 4 years.

More distressing is this picture from 2013 when I was mining the equivalent of $7,700/day with my Butterfly labs miner.

TgLL0KcYL3RW7C99tlsacQR0=w1403-h1052-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
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undertaker2k8

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View attachment 401639

Here's a picture of me running NH in January 2018 (with maybe an AMD 7950). That $7.09/day is worth $34.41/day now in less than 4 years.

More distressing is this picture from 2013 when I was mining the equivalent of $7,700/day with my Butterfly labs miner.

View attachment 401640
I am beginning to strongly suspect BTC replaces USD as global reserve within the next decade. I just need to muster the courage to convert most of my assets over. Given the home price appreciation here in the bay, USD is becoming nearly worthless.
 

TheSlySyl

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Interesting watch if you can get past the host.

TLDR: Mining had no effect on the card when tested after 1, 2, and 3 years of mining.

I have a GTX 1070 and a GTX 1080Ti that have been used on always on systems for years that were previously mining cards, never had any issues unless I was pushing them *super* hard with overclocks.
 

LukeTbk

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I am beginning to strongly suspect BTC replaces USD as global reserve within the next decade. I just need to muster the courage to convert most of my assets over. Given the home price appreciation here in the bay, USD is becoming nearly worthless.
What percentage of your asset is USD ? (and not house equity, stock and so on) or do you mean that you need to sales your house, land,stock, etc..., become a renter and buy Bitcoin with that money ?
 

undertaker2k8

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What percentage of your asset is USD ? (and not house equity, stock and so on) or do you mean that you need to sales your house, land,stock, etc..., become a renter and buy Bitcoin with that money ?
Lol let me send that info right across to ya. 😀
 

Slade

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Still rocking a launch model 3090 and been mining 24/7 on it since last year. Since GPU scheduling was implemented, gaming on it and mining has been pretty good, sure mining performance tanks, but its not like you lose all mining while gaming.
 

Dark12

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I got a 2070 in my gaming PC and RX570 in my media server. They've been mining since beginning of the year and generated a cool couple grand. I leave my media server on 24/7 and gaming pc on almost as much.

"It's free real estate" meme.
 

ZodaEX

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I bought an AMD GPU since they don't seem to be hash rate limited.
 

chrcoluk

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I wouldnt rely on proof of stake, you correctly realised there is other coins to mine, but not only that the thing seems to be in perpetual push back, it was supposedly coming soon back in pascal, yet here we are years later and its still not done.

Best bet is a founders edition card, Nvidia enforce the pricing on approved retailers.
 

kirbyrj

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Best bet is a founders edition card, Nvidia enforce the pricing on approved retailers.

Except they are made in such limited quantities that the chances of actually getting one is slim to none unless: 1) You happen to live by one of the 50 Best Buys that restocks AND 2) You have nothing better to do than sit in a line with a bunch of scalpers for 2 days

The AIB variety of founders card (e.g. Nvidia says they have to sell a card at MSRP so there is 1 SKU) is sold out the first day and never restocked.
 

3dprophet

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I don't think it's a terrible idea. It's a step in the right direction.

Mining looks like it's not going anywhere. So the scenario you can buy a next gen card for MSRP, and now your LHR card is worthless is not going to happen.
 

noko

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I don't think it's a terrible idea. It's a step in the right direction.

Mining looks like it's not going anywhere. So the scenario you can buy a next gen card for MSRP, and now your LHR card is worthless is not going to happen.
Do not follow your logic with current results, LHR cards are out and have been out, where are the MSRP prices and availability? Conditions/status got worst.

To artificially limit capability of what you purchased is the right direction? Only one I can see benefitting is nVidia and that is it.
 

RPGWiZaRD

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The only time it would help bring up availability and lower price is if EVERY gaming card got ALL the cryptos limited which I doubt would even be possible and Nvidia is making a fortune off this crypto boom so why would they...
 

DPI

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I am beginning to strongly suspect BTC replaces USD as global reserve within the next decade. I just need to muster the courage to convert most of my assets over. Given the home price appreciation here in the bay, USD is becoming nearly worthless.
This. I suggest to my friends not to cashout any blue chip crypto, ever. Why? You've got a bank account in the matrix, leave it there because that's where we're all headed. Tokenized cars and real estate are coming.

And no, not all your money, just some of your money. Resist the urge to spend it, pretend it doesn't exist. You'll find a way to make do without until then. Your future self will thank you.

giphy.gif
 
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3dprophet

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Do not follow your logic with current results, LHR cards are out and have been out, where are the MSRP prices and availability? Conditions/status got worst.

To artificially limit capability of what you purchased is the right direction? Only one I can see benefitting is nVidia and that is it.

Like OP already mentioned, LHR are still profitable to miners. Availability got worse because crypto prices have risen. If the cards were practically useless for mining, we might see positive changes.

I think it is a step towards having two different product lines, which may be a solution.

If having a card completely gimped for mining means I can buy a new GPU, I am ok with that.

I don't think it benefits nVidia either. Selling the product at the highest price possible benefits them. Artificially limiting the capability doesn't help that. I think it's actually a nice thing that they trying to do.
 

kirbyrj

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Like OP already mentioned, LHR are still profitable to miners. Availability got worse because crypto prices have risen. If the cards were practically useless for mining, we might see positive changes.

I think it is a step towards having two different product lines, which may be a solution.

If having a card completely gimped for mining means I can buy a new GPU, I am ok with that.

I don't think it benefits nVidia either. Selling the product at the highest price possible benefits them. Artificially limiting the capability doesn't help that. I think it's actually a nice thing that they trying to do.

Then how would you attribute the lack of supply of ps5s and Xbxs which have no mining value at all?
 
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kirbyrj

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Is NVidia getting pressure from the AIBs and retailers to deliberately maintain product shortages? If so, is that illegal under US anti-trust laws?

It sounds like they are gearing up for revamped versions of the cards for a mid-cycle refresh of some sort. It doesn't really seem necessary though as the product stack is already crammed full of cards with varying amounts of cuda cores as it is.
 

philb2

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It sounds like they are gearing up for revamped versions of the cards for a mid-cycle refresh of some sort. It doesn't really seem necessary though as the product stack is already crammed full of cards with varying amounts of cuda cores as it is.
Ouch. Maybe that explains why I got my card off the EVGA list a few days ago when I thought it would be mid-2022 at the earliest.
 

noko

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Like OP already mentioned, LHR are still profitable to miners. Availability got worse because crypto prices have risen. If the cards were practically useless for mining, we might see positive changes.

I think it is a step towards having two different product lines, which may be a solution.

If having a card completely gimped for mining means I can buy a new GPU, I am ok with that.

I don't think it benefits nVidia either. Selling the product at the highest price possible benefits them. Artificially limiting the capability doesn't help that. I think it's actually a nice thing that they trying to do.
Well then LHR totally failed it purpose, limited your options while at the same time the prices went up while availability went down. Yet you think it is a good idea. OK.

So you like giving Nvidia more while they give you less in other words is the drift I am getting from you. I would say LHR is indeed a bad idea. Better idea is Nvidia tackling the supply chain and get more cards out, way more cards and flood the market. Mining is not an endless game, it can saturate making further investment not worthwhile. Limiting cards, making it scarce just makes it worse for miners, gamers, professionals, businesses etc. needing GPUs. Why Nvidia stopped production as it seems is even more perplexing. To me there is no logical sense behind it, to keep or jack up prices higher while you can't sell anymore cards since you are not producing them is a laughable maneuver, I suspect ether the information is wrong (except Nvidia cards are even more scarce then ever regardless of LHR) or Nvidia has something else in mind to tackle the market.
 

noko

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