LG 48CX

Murzilka

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As I remember it, the g--sync hardware module version starts doubling the frame rate at sub-30fps and even tripling it at extremely low frame rates, so when you dip that low it's still 60fps that it's operating on . While still technically smooth, it will be a slideshow at those rates, what I like to call "frozen" frames compared to higher frame rates. Anyway that's how I remember is unless g-sync changed. Freesync does have a lower limit and some of t..he earlier ones were pretty bad at like 48hz on the low end. There are freesync premium screens that will duplicate frames at lower rates though so that confuses the whole freesync thing.
interesting.
 

elvn

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Adjustable LFC point for G-sync enabled Freesync? (blurbusters.com forum)

my games, most game menus are running at 30 frames per second, which causes the FPS counter in my monitor to leap to 60fps — indicating LFC x 2 being activated. Movies at 24 frames per second sometimes creates an LFC x 3 (72fps instead of 48fps), depending on what the bottom-end of VRR range is currently.

ToastyX is capable of modifying the FreeSync range on an AMD Radeon card. But it doesn’t seem to affect the LFC range of an NVIDIA graphics subsystem, and it doesn’t change the 30fps frame rate of some in-game menus (depends on the game).

You can also measure the frame rate of your in-game menu using the in-game framerate counter and/or use RTSS as the frame rate. For any given consistent frame rate — divide the monitor’s frame rate measurement (if monitor has built-in FPS counter), by the computer’s frame rate measurement (game or RTSS framerate measurement), and you’ll see an integer ratio. 1 means LFC not active, 2 and above means LFC is currently active.


https://www.gpumag.com/freesync-premium-pro/

One of these innovations is low framerate compensation (LFC), which addresses the framerate dropping below the monitor’s range. For example, if the FPS drops below the monitor’s 30Hz range, LFC will increase the monitor’s refresh rate with a consistent ratio. So, if the game is at 25 FPS, LFC will set the refresh rate to 50Hz and that will still prevent the gamer from being affected by screen tearing.
 

elvn

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He details how LFC works and shows a good example. His summary is that your nvidia gpu or hdmi 2.1 console will do it's own LFC (low framerate compensation) doubling or tripling to remain within the VRR range regardless of whether your screen has freesync premium and regardless of whether you disable it in the OSD even if your screen has freesync premium. I'd still leave fressync premium enabled on the tv though.

 
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Murzilka

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Honestly, I remember when comparing ips monitors with hw gsync vs without - those with VRR would stutter in fps lower than 48, while monitors equipped with hardware module would be all smooth at any fps rate. People would lower graphics setting to make sure the fps stays always above 48fps to avoid heavy stuttering on VRR monitors. On monitors with HW G-Sync module - there was no need in doing that. So, the LFC didn't help much, and I think that the LG is the same story, except 28 fps is much lower than 48fps and it is much easier to keep fps above the 28 fps threshold. I'd never buy a VRR display with 48fps threshold. I only consider the LG OLED because it can go down to 28fps. I also hope that gaming companies will pick up that 42" OLED and add the NVidia HW G-sync module. I'm not really "hoping" but... I will be looking for possible news about this matter. In any case for the price and the OLED package that comes with it - the 42" LG OLED has to be the ultimate gaming monitor deal, nevermind the 28fps limit.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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Text will still be quite lousy on the 42" (WRGB pixel structure), so unless it's mostly a gaming and streaming setup, this display is not a great choice.
 

sharknice

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Honestly, I remember when comparing ips monitors with hw gsync vs without - those with VRR would stutter in fps lower than 48, while monitors equipped with hardware module would be all smooth at any fps rate. People would lower graphics setting to make sure the fps stays always above 48fps to avoid heavy stuttering on VRR monitors. On monitors with HW G-Sync module - there was no need in doing that. So, the LFC didn't help much, and I think that the LG is the same story, except 28 fps is much lower than 48fps and it is much easier to keep fps above the 28 fps threshold. I'd never buy a VRR display with 48fps threshold. I only consider the LG OLED because it can go down to 28fps. I also hope that gaming companies will pick up that 42" OLED and add the NVidia HW G-sync module. I'm not really "hoping" but... I will be looking for possible news about this matter. In any case for the price and the OLED package that comes with it - the 42" LG OLED has to be the ultimate gaming monitor deal, nevermind the 28fps limit.
They don't make OLED gsync modules and probably never will.

The gsync modules were mainly made because they needed more advanced lcd overdriving due to variable fps. They added low frame rate compensation because lcds need constant voltage or they will reset. They also needed more advanced backlight control for VRR, which is why no gsync monitors use pwm.
OLED doesn't need any of that. And since nearly all OLED "monitors" are tvs they already have advanced hardware modules that can do anything needed.
 

kasakka

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Text will still be quite lousy on the 42" (WRGB pixel structure), so unless it's mostly a gaming and streaming setup, this display is not a great choice.
I think you are making a far too big a deal about it. I use my CX 48" as a desktop display on both MacOS and Windows and text clarity is honestly fine, especially if a bit of DPI scaling is used.

I have used the CX literally over a year for both my work and personal use and it's been totally fine.
 

Murzilka

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They don't make OLED gsync modules and probably never will.

The gsync modules were mainly made because they needed more advanced lcd overdriving due to variable fps. They added low frame rate compensation because lcds need constant voltage or they will reset. They also needed more advanced backlight control for VRR, which is why no gsync monitors use pwm.
OLED doesn't need any of that. And since nearly all OLED "monitors" are tvs they already have advanced hardware modules that can do anything needed.
That is awesome. 👍
Although, are they as effective as dedicated Nvidia modules designed specifically to work with supported Nvidia cards?
 

MrTX

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I think you are making a far too big a deal about it. I use my CX 48" as a desktop display on both MacOS and Windows and text clarity is honestly fine, especially if a bit of DPI scaling is used.

I have used the CX literally over a year for both my work and personal use and it's been totally fine.
Agree. I have CX 48 and use 100% scaling (Windows 10). I've used it for a lot of website browsing (and the occasional coding), and text are definitely fine. Nothing out of the ordinary compare to my previous IPS displays.
 

elvn

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Honestly, I remember when comparing ips monitors with hw gsync vs without - those with VRR would stutter in fps lower than 48, while monitors equipped with hardware module would be all smooth at any fps rate. People would lower graphics setting to make sure the fps stays always above 48fps to avoid heavy stuttering on VRR monitors. On monitors with HW G-Sync module - there was no need in doing that. So, the LFC didn't help much, and I think that the LG is the same story, except 28 fps is much lower than 48fps and it is much easier to keep fps above the 28 fps threshold. I'd never buy a VRR display with 48fps threshold. I only consider the LG OLED because it can go down to 28fps. I also hope that gaming companies will pick up that 42" OLED and add the NVidia HW G-sync module. I'm not really "hoping" but... I will be looking for possible news about this matter. In any case for the price and the OLED package that comes with it - the 42" LG OLED has to be the ultimate gaming monitor deal, nevermind the 28fps limit.

Yeah but now they have LFC in software from every hdm 2.1 gsync/freesync capable device so we don't need it on a hardware g-sync module anymore. I do remember those days though.

Text will still be quite lousy on the 42" (WRGB pixel structure), so unless it's mostly a gaming and streaming setup, this display is not a great choice.


That 42" screen should be a little more manageable for some people but it's not that huge of a difference viewing distance wise vs PPD at the nearer 60 PPD end. It's still an appreciable difference of 6" at 80PPD where you are more or less sitting the same distance away as the screen's diagonal measurement.

60 PPD on a 42" 4k screen = 29.3"
60 PPD on a 48" 4k screen = 33.5"

80 PPD on a 42" 4k screen = 41.1"
80 PPD on a 48" 4k screen = 47"

These aren't sized suitably for use as up against the wall like a bookshelf / player~upright piano style desk setups. This kind of size demands more of a command center setup.

If you aren't sitting at least that far away, yes your text will look like crap just like a 32" 1440p up close or a 37" 1080p. You will get aliasing and text fringing that no amount of text subsampling tweaking will be able to compensate enough for.

If you sit the appropriate distances away, text and overall pixel structure will look fine once AA and text subsampling are utilized. The viewing angle also gets better viewed at a distance nearing the screen's diagonal measurement to get ~ 45 deg - 50 deg

unless it's mostly a gaming and streaming setup, this display is not a great choice.

I do half-agree with you usage wise but that is due to the 25% brightness buffer used for wear-evening vs burn in longevity wise. I still personally do not use the OLED as a static desktop/app monitor with ABL/ASBL disabled and low brightness settings. It's duty in my setup is as a media and gaming "stage" in my multi-monitor array. In that it is an amazing screen. Best screen ever so far, and TV in living room also in my case.


Being a marginal reduction in view distances I still don't see it as a size that is going to allow people to do the up against the wall like a bookshelf / upright~player piano style desk setup if they are going to view it properly. I don't prefer that kind of setup though personally as long as I have the room and resources to do a longer view command center style setup. Still, saving (4" or) 6" can make a difference in your room layout and could allow for deep desk mounting or more varied screen mounting options in general, as well being different in how it can relate to other screens if you do a multi-monitor setup.

===================================

View Distances
----------------------

Below 60PPD
= below 20/20 vision; most everyone can see individual pixels obviously. You likely need strong anti-aliasing to hide artifacts (at a performance hit).
= requires aggressive text subsampling tweaking, experimenting with alternate forms of subsampling, etc but it will never look as good.
= jumbo pixels to your eyes, aliased graphics, bad text fringing
= bad viewing angle like sitting near to a wall

60 PPD+ is above the 20/20 vision threshold.
..Requires moderate anti aliasing (at a performance hit) and tweaking text sub-sampling.
..The minimum view distance you can use without having a more aggresive pixel structure with jumbo pixels that result in pixelated and fringed graphics that AA struggles to compensate for and text subsampling can't compensate for enough.
..Still displays some more visible pixelization on desktop (or tv viewing) lacking AA or softening - though subsampling helps text look good enough so overall not bad looking even outside of game's AA.
..Not the best viewing angle to the extents of the screen for HUDs. It's pretty narrow.
..64 deg viewing angle at 4k.

80 PPD+
..moderate, slightly above the average visual acuity; few can see individual pixels obviously.
..Anti-aliasing is only necessary in medium- and high-contrast areas
..you still see some fringing where the contrasted areas mesh but can probably get away with more modest and less demanding AA levels or no AA depending on the game and how you feel about it
..approaching the same view distance as the screen's diagonal measurement this results in a much better viewing angle to the extents of the screen and HUD elements (more or less an equilateral triangle/pyramid viewing angle cone)
..48 degree viewing angle at 4k.

120PPD+
..better than 20/10 vision; no one can "see" individual pixels as an obvious/aggressive structure. Anti-aliasing is only necessary in very high-contrast cases if at all.
..pretty extreme and practically unusable distance for a pc on 4k screens (that will change with 8k screens someday, where all these PPD distances will be halved).
..more useful for living room/home theater room environment viewing distances where you watch media without AA and text subsampling
..32 degree viewing angle at 4k.

Viewing Angle regardless of PPD:
..in my opinion, the best case is 45deg - 50 deg viewing angle so you can actually see the extents of the screen and the HUD elements, pointers, notifications, chat, etc without turning away from center in a more extreme amount to see them.
..as a rule of thumb you get what's more or less an equilateral triangle or pyramid viewing angle cone when your view distances is nearing the diagonal screen measurement.
=================================
 
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Bigmonitorguy

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Agree. I have CX 48 and use 100% scaling (Windows 10). I've used it for a lot of website browsing (and the occasional coding), and text are definitely fine. Nothing out of the ordinary compare to my previous IPS displays.

It's useable, but I wouldn't call it "definitely fine". I have a 55" LG C9 (WRGB OLED), and a 55" LG SM9000 (RGB IPS), and the text quality is significantly better on the SM9000. My initial plan was to use the OLED as my monitor, but I use text a lot, and I got tired of looking at it on the OLED, so I replaced it with the IPS panel. The OLED is now relegated to duty on a spare computer.

The LG 32EP950 with the JOLED RGB panel is a completely different story - great text quality. If the LG 42" used such an RGB panel, I'd buy it for sure, but it won't work for me with WRGB.
 

nighty2k20

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Like they suggested - Changing the named input to be named PC puts it in 4:4:4/RGB. If it hadn't been on that setting before it should be been pretty obvious in text. It appears tattered when not in RGB mode so I would triple check that. Pulling the hdmi cable out and plugging it back in should drop PC/RGB named setting and make it tattered looking. It also happens in graphics, not just text, but text is more obvious. Setting the name of the hdmi input on the TV to "PC" again will but it back to RGB and remove the tattered look.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling

I'll also add a few other things to mess with:

..your resolution in the display settings (there can also be a different TV version of some resolutions in addition to the same PC version of that resolution if you scroll down far enough, also make sure it 's on 3840x2160 4k and not 4096x)
..any scaling options that changed the display scaling from 1:1 should be turned off
..your windows desktop/text scaling settings (e.g. if you set text too small or the default is too small for your ppi it will look bad).

..make sure the new gpu doesn't have sharpness settings enabled by default (I think amd kept a sharpness slider where nvidia dropped it at some point, and their "zero" sharpness might be 10, would have to look it up)
..make sure your tv settings don't have any processing enabled in the details settings (incl sharpness), color settings, etc accidentally somehow. Use HGiG/game mode with no processing.

..That and your viewing distance being too close vs the ppi (getting a bad PPD) will show a more aggravated pixel structure that makes text look worse with more aggressive text fringing/aliasing but I assume you are at the same distance you were at with the nvidia GPU previously.

A good reference for settings here that I linked in this thread previously:

(Reddit) LG OLED gaming/PC monitor recommended settings guide
Dear elvin thanks for the suggestions. In only now had time to come back and test further on that matter. I will summarize in the following post
 

nighty2k20

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Nvidia vs AMD text quality on LG CX48

As pretext to this: I am neither fan of AMD or NVIDIA or any vendor, I am only interested in quality screen output

I had used the CX48 paired with a Gigabyte RTX 3060ti since 01/2021 and had notice the decline in text sharpness compared to my previous IPS monitors but had accepted that loss as OLED inherent and the other qualities in gaming and consuming streams/videos/movies made up for that.

I recently have the possibility to test various GPUs of various vendors and I was instantly blown away when I replaced the 3060ti with a MSI 6600XT, really at the first look I realized the change in text sharpness.

I have since tested forth and back to see if it could be card specific, vendor specific or a setting. With no setting could I get nvidia cards to that level of clarity regarding text sharpness. I tried that in 01/2021 a lot when I first had the combo of 3060ti+cx48, and I tried now.
For both AMD and NVIDIA I targetted: 120Hz freeysnc/gsync, 3840x2160, YCBCCR444 10b 4L10, and confirmed that with the CX48s onscreen info (9x green button)

So for all the cards I tested (list below) I have immediately superb text clarity on AMD cards, and struggle to get that up to par on NVIDIA cards:

NVIDIA:
Gigabyte 3060ti Aorus Master
EVGA 3070 XC3
Nvidia 3090 FE

AMD
MSI 6600 XT Gaming X
Gigabyte 6600 XT Eagle OC
Powercolor 6600 XT Fighter


Attached you can find photos taken with a Huawei Mate 20 Pro, all in Standard mode, all with adjusted 4x zoom. I won't comment on my findings, but focus text and object edges/lines

Looking forward to your feedback.
 

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kasakka

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Nvidia vs AMD text quality on LG CX48

As pretext to this: I am neither fan of AMD or NVIDIA or any vendor, I am only interested in quality screen output

I had used the CX48 paired with a Gigabyte RTX 3060ti since 01/2021 and had notice the decline in text sharpness compared to my previous IPS monitors but had accepted that loss as OLED inherent and the other qualities in gaming and consuming streams/videos/movies made up for that.

I recently have the possibility to test various GPUs of various vendors and I was instantly blown away when I replaced the 3060ti with a MSI 6600XT, really at the first look I realized the change in text sharpness.

I have since tested forth and back to see if it could be card specific, vendor specific or a setting. With no setting could I get nvidia cards to that level of clarity regarding text sharpness. I tried that in 01/2021 a lot when I first had the combo of 3060ti+cx48, and I tried now.
For both AMD and NVIDIA I targetted: 120Hz freeysnc/gsync, 3840x2160, YCBCCR444 10b 4L10, and confirmed that with the CX48s onscreen info (9x green button)

So for all the cards I tested (list below) I have immediately superb text clarity on AMD cards, and struggle to get that up to par on NVIDIA cards:

NVIDIA:
Gigabyte 3060ti Aorus Master
EVGA 3070 XC3
Nvidia 3090 FE

AMD
MSI 6600 XT Gaming X
Gigabyte 6600 XT Eagle OC
Powercolor 6600 XT Fighter


Attached you can find photos taken with a Huawei Mate 20 Pro, all in Standard mode, all with adjusted 4x zoom. I won't comment on my findings, but focus text and object edges/lines

Looking forward to your feedback.
Very interesting! It almost seems like either Nvidia has some issue with font rendering or AMD handles it in a very different way.

To verify, I tried hooking up my LG CX 48" to my gf's PC which has an old AMD Radeon 390. Out of the box the text rendering did seem like it was a bit better. But I feel it looks pretty close on Nvidia with Better ClearType Tuner set to RGB and the contrast adjusted, try 1200-1600 values.

In any case please report this to Nvidia and maybe they will actually do something about it because it's definitely noticeable in your screenshot!
 

ORFJackal

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I have since tested forth and back to see if it could be card specific, vendor specific or a setting. With no setting could I get nvidia cards to that level of clarity regarding text sharpness.
Which settings do you mean? Did you adjust ClearType settings?
 

elvn

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Nvidia vs AMD text quality on LG CX48

As pretext to this: I am neither fan of AMD or NVIDIA or any vendor, I am only interested in quality screen output

I had used the CX48 paired with a Gigabyte RTX 3060ti since 01/2021 and had notice the decline in text sharpness compared to my previous IPS monitors but had accepted that loss as OLED inherent and the other qualities in gaming and consuming streams/videos/movies made up for that.

I recently have the possibility to test various GPUs of various vendors and I was instantly blown away when I replaced the 3060ti with a MSI 6600XT, really at the first look I realized the change in text sharpness.

I have since tested forth and back to see if it could be card specific, vendor specific or a setting. With no setting could I get nvidia cards to that level of clarity regarding text sharpness. I tried that in 01/2021 a lot when I first had the combo of 3060ti+cx48, and I tried now.
For both AMD and NVIDIA I targetted: 120Hz freeysnc/gsync, 3840x2160, YCBCCR444 10b 4L10, and confirmed that with the CX48s onscreen info (9x green button)

So for all the cards I tested (list below) I have immediately superb text clarity on AMD cards, and struggle to get that up to par on NVIDIA cards:

NVIDIA:
Gigabyte 3060ti Aorus Master
EVGA 3070 XC3
Nvidia 3090 FE

AMD
MSI 6600 XT Gaming X
Gigabyte 6600 XT Eagle OC
Powercolor 6600 XT Fighter


Attached you can find photos taken with a Huawei Mate 20 Pro, all in Standard mode, all with adjusted 4x zoom. I won't comment on my findings, but focus text and object edges/lines

Looking forward to your feedback.

Very interesting but I would again point out that your camera is up close to the screen. The closer your eyes are to a screen, the more obvious the pixel structure is going to be so everything will be aliased to one degree or another. The same thing happens with newsprint/magazine's dots or even a billboard up close. If you zoom in close enough with a camera you can see the subpixels.

At 33.5" away on a 48" 4k, 60PPD, you still get obvious aliasing and text fringing to your eyes and brain because people (most people actually can see 20/15) can still see the pixel structure as fairly aggressive. You end up using medium to high level of AA in games and on the desktop you try to tweak text subsampling or try using a different kind of subsampling from window's default.

At 80 PPD on a 48" 4k screen ~ 47", few people can see a more obvious pixel structure, AA only necessary in very high contrasted areas where light/dark meet so little AA is necessary and you can probably get away with no AA depending on the game and how you feel about it. Approaching the same view distance as the screen's diagonal measurement this results in a much better viewing angle to the extents of the screen and HUD elements (more or less an equilateral triangle/pyramid viewing angle cone) anyway so it's a win-win.

If you are really going to assess pixel fringing/aliasing or it bothers you, I recommend doing so at 60PPD+ (33.5"+) with heavy subsampling and trying other sub-sampling types, and I recommend using ~ 47"+ distance 80PPD if you want a much finer pixel structure and better viewing angle. That is for 48" 4k. 8k screen would halve those distances as the pixel structure would be 2x more fine.

View Distances
----------------------

Below 60PPD
= below 20/20 vision; most everyone can see individual pixels obviously. You likely need strong anti-aliasing to hide artifacts (at a performance hit).
= requires aggressive text subsampling tweaking, experimenting with alternate forms of subsampling, etc but it will never look as good.
= jumbo pixels to your eyes, aliased graphics, bad text fringing
= bad viewing angle like sitting near to a wall

60 PPD+ is above the 20/20 vision threshold.
..Requires moderate anti aliasing (at a performance hit) and tweaking text sub-sampling.
..The minimum view distance you can use without having a more aggresive pixel structure with jumbo pixels that result in pixelated and fringed graphics that AA struggles to compensate for and text subsampling can't compensate for enough.
..Still displays some more visible pixelization on desktop (or tv viewing) lacking AA or softening - though subsampling helps text look good enough so overall not bad looking even outside of game's AA.
..Not the best viewing angle to the extents of the screen for HUDs. It's pretty narrow.
..64 deg viewing angle at 4k.

80 PPD+
..moderate, slightly above the average visual acuity; few can see individual pixels obviously.
..Anti-aliasing is only necessary in medium- and high-contrast areas
..you still see some fringing where the contrasted areas mesh but can probably get away with more modest and less demanding AA levels or no AA depending on the game and how you feel about it
..approaching the same view distance as the screen's diagonal measurement this results in a much better viewing angle to the extents of the screen and HUD elements (more or less an equilateral triangle/pyramid viewing angle cone)
..48 degree viewing angle at 4k.

120PPD+
..better than 20/10 vision; no one can "see" individual pixels as an obvious/aggressive structure. Anti-aliasing is only necessary in very high-contrast cases if at all.
..pretty extreme and practically unusable distance for a pc on 4k screens (that will change with 8k screens someday, where all these PPD distances will be halved).
..more useful for living room/home theater room environment viewing distances where you watch media without AA and text subsampling
..32 degree viewing angle at 4k.

Viewing Angle regardless of PPD:
..in my opinion, the best case is 45deg - 50 deg viewing angle so you can actually see the extents of the screen and the HUD elements, pointers, notifications, chat, etc without turning away from center in a more extreme amount to see them.
..as a rule of thumb you get what's more or less an equilateral triangle or pyramid viewing angle cone when your view distances is nearing the diagonal screen measurement.
=================================
 
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nighty2k20

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Very interesting but I would again point out that your camera is up close to the screen. The closer your eyes are to a screen, the more obvious the pixel structure is going to be so everything will be aliased to one degree or another. The same thing happens with newsprint/magazine's dots or even a billboard up close. If you zoom in close enough with a camera you can see the subpixels.

At 33.5" away on a 48" 4k, 60PPD, you still get obvious aliasing and text fringing to your eyes and brain because people (most people actually can see 20/15) can still see the pixel structure as fairly aggressive. You end up using medium to high level of AA in games and on the desktop you try to tweak text subsampling or try using a different kind of subsampling from window's default.

At 80 PPD on a 48" 4k screen ~ 47", few people can see a more obvious pixel structure, AA only necessary in very high contrasted areas where light/dark meet so little AA is necessary and you can probably get away with no AA depending on the game and how you feel about it. Approaching the same view distance as the screen's diagonal measurement this results in a much better viewing angle to the extents of the screen and HUD elements (more or less an equilateral triangle/pyramid viewing angle cone) anyway so it's a win-win.

If you are really going to assess pixel fringing/aliasing or it bothers you, I recommend doing so at 60PPD+ (33.5"+) with heavy subsampling and trying other sub-sampling types, and I recommending using ~ 41"+ distance 80PPD if you want a much finer pixel structure and better viewing angle. That is for 48" 4k. 8k screen would halve those distances as the pixel structure would be 2x more fine.
elvn, I understand all of the above assessments of yours and caveats you point out.

I am sitting with 90cm eye distance to the screen, Windows scaling set to 100%, so fonts/text is quite small. And in that situation text on nvidia cards is subjectively more fuzzy/blurry then on my AMD cards.
Especially "echos" on vertical lines in letters like "E, l, R" are visible with the bare eye from 90cm and the bleeding of one letter to the other causes "blurriness" on words.

Very interesting! It almost seems like either Nvidia has some issue with font rendering or AMD handles it in a very different way.

To verify, I tried hooking up my LG CX 48" to my gf's PC which has an old AMD Radeon 390. Out of the box the text rendering did seem like it was a bit better. But I feel it looks pretty close on Nvidia with Better ClearType Tuner set to RGB and the contrast adjusted, try 1200-1600 values.

In any case please report this to Nvidia and maybe they will actually do something about it because it's definitely noticeable in your screenshot!

I would be happy if more people with the means to AB BA my finding (and kasakkas) could chime in here and break it down to personal settings/devices or a general phenomenon
 

elvn

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Messages
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There are no standard measurments/types for windows' cleartype afaik so we can't know what yours are at. There are also a few 3rd party text subsampling apps you could try.

With cleartype... cleartype aggressive vs cleartype light, massaging the settings.. and maybe trying a few 3rd party text subsampling methods you may get different results at the 90cm distance you posted.
You could also try taking the pictures from farther away as a comparison closer to what you might actually see at 34" and 47" away.

Out of curiosity,
How does it look at 119.4cm or 120cm (~ 47"+) at 100% to your eyeballs?
That is "beyond" the 20/15 "limit" of normal human visual acuity clarity-wise (not the absolute limit of human vision though of course)
--- so a more aggressive pixel structure shouldn't really be visible anymore at 41"+. If any slight aliasing happened on the fringes of the highest contrasted areas, cleartype or AA should compensate enough at that fine of a PPD (80+).




At 80+ PPD the pixels should appear very fine to you on the screen outright or "raw" if you will.

For comparison:

80 PPD on a 27" diagonal 1440p screen starts at 41" away
80 PPD on a 27" diagonal 4k starts at 26.5" away.

80 PPD on a 31.5" diagonal 1440p starts at ~ 48" away.
80 PPD on a 31.5" diagonal 4k starts at ~ 31" away

80 PPD on a 42" diagonal 4k TV starts at 41.1" away
80 PPD on a 48" diagonal 4k TV starts at ~ 47" away
80 PPD on a 55" diagonal 4k TV starts at ~ 54" away.

120PPD is where you really can go without AA or subsampling though but that is more for TV viewing distance-wise on 4k screens. When we get 8K screens someday all of the distances vs PDD would be halved compared to 4k.

I tried a 37" 1080p at ~ 3.5 to 4' away at a desk briefly a long time ago but it was only around 50PPD at best. I ended up selling it soon after.
I used a 31.5" 1440 VA g-sync for awhile but at nearer desk distances, while usable, the text was definitely fringed at 100% scaling 1:1 even with subsampling. It wasn't really decent looking pixel structure wise until I moved it back ~ ~3 feet away to 60 PPD+ (relying on subsampling and more aggressive AA in games). I used different screens next to it and mostly used the 31.5" 1440p for gaming anyway. I'm doing similar with the 48" CX OLED dedicating it as a media and gaming "stage" while using side 4k VA screens in portrait mode for static desktop/apps/text.

80PPD+ on a 4k screen also gives you a better 48 degree viewing angle which is more like an equilateral triangle or equilateral pyramid-cone view measuring the view distance in relation to the screen's diagonal size so you don't have to turn your head or bend your eyes a great amount to see the extents (HUD, notifications, pointers, in game text, etc).
 
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Monstieur

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The Nvidia module is the most effective one. One thing for sure, Nvidia hardware module starts synchronizing frames with 1fps, LG - with 28fps, below that you get the usual v-sync stutter.
All VRR monitors synchronize at 1 fps with LFC. LFC is done in the GPU. There is no advantage to hardware LFC in the G-SYNC module either, because once the module begins to double a frame, it cannot respond to new frames until the doubled frame is completely drawn, resulting in the same potential stutter.
 

elvn

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All VRR monitors synchronize at 1 fps with LFC. LFC is done in the GPU. There is no advantage to hardware LFC in the G-SYNC module either, because once the module begins to double a frame, it cannot respond to new frames until the doubled frame is completely drawn, resulting in the same potential stutter.
Yep. Good stuff
My recent quote :
Yeah but now they have LFC in software from every hdm 2.1 gsync/freesync capable device so we don't need it on a hardware g-sync module anymore. I do remember those days though.
 

MistaSparkul

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All VRR monitors synchronize at 1 fps with LFC. LFC is done in the GPU. There is no advantage to hardware LFC in the G-SYNC module either, because once the module begins to double a frame, it cannot respond to new frames until the doubled frame is completely drawn, resulting in the same potential stutter.

Exactly. I remember this issue being brought up a long time ago on this thread and people didn't seem to understand that as long as the display supports LFC then there is no advantage to having a Gsync module for low fps VRR. The 40Hz floor of the CX isn't a problem.
 

elvn

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In my opinion you shouldn't be running your frame rate ranges that low in the first place anyway, especially on pc. It's a freeze-frame slideshow of molasses. :LOL:
 
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Is Color at 55 accurate with Warm 2 and Gamma 2.2 in SDR Game Mode on the 48CX? I'm in Game Console Input on Xbox Series X fyi. I know the sRGB gamut is a bit undersaturated, I think it hits 94.6% or something? If that's true, I'm thinking 55 might be accurate still while helping out with the color gamut, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks. Or maybe leave it at 50? I have no tools to measure and have not calibrated my set, so trying to eyeball this is very difficult obviously lol
 
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Nebell

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I just pulled the trigger on a Black Friday deal on C1 48". I'm a bit concerned about the low brightness of it and the burn in if I max out the brightness.
So, my plan is to get LG Premium Care to extend warranty to 5 years. Does this cover burn in?
Also, since I don't use the screen for more than 2-4 hours per day (longer during the weekend) and I use animated wallpapers, is it ok to just leave it at max brightness?

I have 65" B1 in my bedroom and find it dim compared to 85" Samsung QN85A which is in the living room. The picture is better but not by a lot. I think the peak brightness on QN85A and its local dimming (the 85" version is a VA panel so it has high contrast) helps a ton with picture quality.
But since B1 is in the bedroom and used in a pitch black room, I can live with its lower brightness. Both fantastic TVs, but I wouldn't use B1 in the living room.
 

hhkb

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People think the text looks bad on this screen? I must be missing something. I find text is way easier to view over longer periods w/ an oled than my prior IPS and VA screens. In fact that's half the reason I got an OLED, I find it's much easier on my eyes for long viewing periods. Working on it daily 8+ hours for the last year.

I think cleartype is a bit wack sometimes though. I am mostly on Linux where font rendering is better to my eyes.

Is Color at 55 accurate with Warm 2 and Gamma 2.2 in SDR Game Mode on the 48CX? I'm in Game Console Input on Xbox Series X fyi. I know the sRGB gamut is a bit undersaturated, I think it hits 94.6% or something? If that's true, I'm thinking 55 might be accurate still while helping out with the color gamut, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks. Or maybe leave it at 50? I have no tools to measure and have not calibrated my set, so trying to eyeball this is very difficult obviously lol

Most accurate is color 50 at Warm 2 out of the box. This gives you factory calibrated 6500k. You shouldn't mess with those settings even when calibrating - it's better to adjust the grayscale/white point to fix color issues. It's a whole can of worms btw if you want to calibrate it further :).
 

nighty2k20

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People think the text looks bad on this screen? I must be missing something. I find text is way easier to view over longer periods w/ an oled than my prior IPS and VA screens. In fact that's half the reason I got an OLED, I find it's much easier on my eyes for long viewing periods. Working on it daily 8+ hours for the last year.
What is your scaling in windows? I am using 100%
 
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People think the text looks bad on this screen? I must be missing something. I find text is way easier to view over longer periods w/ an oled than my prior IPS and VA screens. In fact that's half the reason I got an OLED, I find it's much easier on my eyes for long viewing periods. Working on it daily 8+ hours for the last year.

I think cleartype is a bit wack sometimes though. I am mostly on Linux where font rendering is better to my eyes.



Most accurate is color 50 at Warm 2 out of the box. This gives you factory calibrated 6500k. You shouldn't mess with those settings even when calibrating - it's better to adjust the grayscale/white point to fix color issues. It's a whole can of worms btw if you want to calibrate it further :).
Thank you!
 

johnnysd

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Text will still be quite lousy on the 42" (WRGB pixel structure), so unless it's mostly a gaming and streaming setup, this display is not a great choice.
People seem to like to say this but I have owned a 48" C1 and I find text way better than either of my 32" displays. I mean I am only doing normal stuff like email, Excel, surfing etc...but I find the text outstanding. In fact I find everything about it incredible.
 

nighty2k20

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People seem to like to say this but I have owned a 48" C1 and I find text way better than either of my 32" displays. I mean I am only doing normal stuff like email, Excel, surfing etc...but I find the text outstanding. In fact I find everything about it incredible.
Which windows scaling do you use? It defaults to 300%, which of course will be "sharp" enough, or do you drop to 100% to get as much content/text as possible?
 

elvn

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Which windows scaling do you use? It defaults to 300%, which of course will be "sharp" enough, or do you drop to 100% to get as much content/text as possible?

There are a few major contributors to text clarity off the top of my head:

#1 PPD. That means how high the resolution is and how far away you are sitting from it with your eyeballs. 60PPD starts at 33.5" on a 48" 4k screen. Almost everyone can see a more aggressive pixel structure but that can be managed on most screens using AA in games and text subsampling on the desktop. Approaching the 80PPD+ end of view distances the pixel structure appears much, much finer so text looks way better as you near the diagonal measurement of the screen as your viewing distance.

#2 RGB this is probably a tie for #1. Text looks tattered and ugly without RGB / PC named input (444 chroma)

#3 Tuning: Text Subsampling and Screen OSD settings/tweaking/calibration.
Subsampling is like anti-aliasing. The nearer you sit to 60PPD the more aggressive your AA and subsampling will need to be to attempt to make up for the more obvious pixel structure showing. 60PPD can look decent with good subsampling and especially outside of the desktop in games with AA - but the text still might not look the best. Below 60PPD you've lost the battle imo and the more aggressive pixelization and text fringing will never look "fixed". A 48" 4k is only a bit better than a 31.5" 1440p screen pixel size so it looks way better at 38" - 48" away.
Your brightness, gamma, contrast can also affect your text clarity some. Whether you use dark themes or not and how highly contrasted your text is vs the backgrounds can exacerbate issues, especially the nearer you sit. Some screens have separate named settings just for desktop/text reading or people tweak on of their own similarly.

#4 Scaling. I shoot for 1:1 at up to 80PPD on a 4k screen. On higher PPD screens like a 15" 4k laptop I might bump it up a little though. It can look clearer as you scale up but I don't prefer to increase text size on 40" + screens. Also, if you try to use text that is smaller than 1:1 it's going to look progressively worse. I do scale text up or down within my web browser and my 3rd party file browser on the fly at times though using my mouse wheel.

#5 I guess I should mention screen coatings and room lighting design. Obviously overly aggressive AG (anti-glare coatings) can compromise text. That is rare on modern screens but lighter AG can still have some negative effect on very high pixel densities. Smashing any screen with direct light sources can blow out parts of the screen and make them harder to read regardless of the screen coating. Your eyes will see contrast and saturation differently between a dim room and brighter room too.

#6 Pixel structure. RGB vs BGR vs WRGB. I really don't find that to be an issue but it's mentioned enough that I added it.
Many of my screens have been used in portrait mode which ends up being
RRRRRR
GGGGGG
BBBBBBB
or that flipped upside down.. and I have no issue with text in that orientation at the appropriate viewing distance.
WRGB doesn't seem noticeable to me either but I'm mainly using my 48" CX as a media and gaming stage. Games have AA and look great even if they have a lot of fine text (rpg/MMO stats and quests, dialogues.. in-game-chat interfaces.. MMO/RTS unit infos).


------------------------

Let me know if I forgot any.

The one I keep going back to is that people aren't posting an honest measurement of how far away their eyeballs are from the screen so we can know what PPD they are "using". Two people viewing a 48" 4k at two different distances are likely going to see much different text and screen aliasing in effect so without that information asking other questions about their settings seems pretty meaningless. (n)

Since this is a large screen I suspect a lot of people are trying to view it closer than is optimal and then trying to make adjustments for how aggressive the pixel structure/aliasing and text fringing look at lower PPD.
 
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Joined
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I'm using the 48CX and am wondering what OLED light I should set if I want 120 nits? I know TFT recommends 36 OL for 120 nits with the CX in PC Mode, however, Vincent Teoh recently said that for the 48CX OL at 35 measured 100 nits. Now this is quite a big discrepancy, so I am not sure what OL is 120 nits with my TV. I am in Game Console Input using Xbox Series X and SDR Game Mode if that helps. I think a recent firmware may have decreased brightness in SDR Game Mode or something, I'm not sure. I'm running 45 OL right now and it looks great for my dim environment, but I'd just like to know if I'm close to 120 nits or not, that's all.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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#6 Pixel structure. RGB vs BGR vs WRGB. I really don't find that to be an issue but it's mentioned enough that I added it.
Many of my screens have been used in portrait mode which ends up being
RRRRRR
GGGGGG
BBBBBBB
or that flipped upside down.. and I have no issue with text in that orientation at the appropriate viewing distance.
WRGB doesn't seem noticeable to me either but I'm mainly using my 48" CX as a media and gaming stage. Games have AA and look great even if they have a lot of fine text (rpg/MMO stats and quests, dialogues.. in-game-chat interfaces.. MMO/RTS unit infos).

I haven't found BGR to be an issue for ClearType text on Windows, and ClearType actually has a setting for it. I don't see an issue on my HP Z43 which is BGR. I'm guessing the complaints are about monitors that have other problems that affect text, and just happen to be BGR.

WRGB is a completely different matter. It definitely affects ClearType text quality. The test is very simple for me. I have a 55" WRGB OLED (LG C9), and a 55" RGB IPS (LG SM9000). No scaling - using 100%. Sitting at exactly the same distance of 28", text is much better on the IPS than the OLED. There's fringing on the OLED and the characters are simply not as clear and well-rendered as on the IPS. It's not subtle - you see it immediately. The WRGB OLED is usable for text - it's not horrible. Just somewhat off, particularly when you know what it should look like, and I find it annoying to look at after a while.
 

elvn

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I haven't found BGR to be an issue for ClearType text on Windows, and ClearType actually has a setting for it. I don't see an issue on my HP Z43 which is BGR. I'm guessing the complaints are about monitors that have other problems that affect text, and just happen to be BGR.

WRGB is a completely different matter. It definitely affects ClearType text quality. The test is very simple for me. I have a 55" WRGB OLED (LG C9), and a 55" RGB IPS (LG SM9000). No scaling - using 100%. Sitting at exactly the same distance of 28", text is much better on the IPS than the OLED. There's fringing on the OLED and the characters are simply not as clear and well-rendered as on the IPS. It's not subtle - you see it immediately. The WRGB OLED is usable for text - it's not horrible. Just somewhat off, particularly when you know what it should look like, and I find it annoying to look at after a while.

The nearer you sit it's like going to look like 16bit and 8bit graphics (an exaggeration but you get my point).

3DNNoSc.png




Text sub-sampling just does a fog like anti aliasing effect but the text will be fringed when viewed up close.

220px-ClearTypePixels.svg.png


mmm.gif



The test is very simple for me. I have a 55" WRGB OLED (LG C9), and a 55" RGB IPS (LG SM9000). No scaling - using 100%. Sitting at exactly the same distance

Using the same cleartype tuning on one screen will not necessarily look the same or as good on another. You'd have to run through it again, perhaps several times until you get the best you can get for each particular screen.

Cleartype-585x480.png


You can also try mactype if you haven't. Incidentally they mention some problems in chrome browser specifically where firefox doesn't have the text problem just in case you are referencing your chrome use.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ohute1/disable_rgb_cleartype_font_antialiasing/

Sitting at exactly the same distance of 28",

60 PPD starts at almost 34" away.

View Distance is a huge factor in how aggressive the pixel structure appears and how aliased text and graphics are.

I would say the minimum in order to get a decent result would be 60PPD (33.5" away for a 48" 4k) but that still requires heavy cleartype tweaking or resorting to other subpixel rendering methods. It also requires more aggressive AA in games. All screens require a lot of compensation at 60PPD. I'm not saying it definitely is but if WRGB were slightly worse at nearer distances with smaller fonts down to 1:1 100% scaling then the view distance would be more crucial and would have to be bumped a bit farther.

I'll also mention that your OSD settings/calibration can affect how aliased text looks. That is mainly how contrasted text is vs the background. Since OLED is per pixel emissive and can do infinite black depth, it will have much higher contrast between black text and white background and vise-versa than non-OLED screens so it could potentially look slightly worse (more detailed and accurate really) just because of that to start with. Laptops and monitors with tv functionality in the past usually had a "text" or "reading" named setting just for text/reading which was less contrasted and less saturated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

===================================
View Distances
----------------------
Below 60PPD
= below 20/20 vision; most everyone can see individual pixels obviously. You likely need strong anti-aliasing to hide artifacts (at a performance hit).
= requires aggressive text subsampling tweaking, experimenting with alternate forms of subsampling, etc but it will never look as good.
= jumbo pixels to your eyes, aliased graphics, bad text fringing
= bad viewing angle like sitting near to a wall

60 PPD+ is above the 20/20 vision threshold.
..Requires moderate anti aliasing (at a performance hit) and tweaking text sub-sampling.
..The minimum view distance you can use without having a more aggresive pixel structure with jumbo pixels that result in pixelated and fringed graphics that AA struggles to compensate for and text subsampling can't compensate for enough.
..Still displays some more visible pixelization on desktop (or tv viewing) lacking AA or softening - though subsampling helps text look good enough so overall not bad looking even outside of game's AA.
..Not the best viewing angle to the extents of the screen for HUDs. It's pretty narrow.
..64 deg viewing angle at 4k.

80 PPD+
..moderate, slightly above the average visual acuity; few can see individual pixels obviously.
..Anti-aliasing is only necessary in medium- and high-contrast areas
..you still see some fringing where the contrasted areas mesh but can probably get away with more modest and less demanding AA levels or no AA depending on the game and how you feel about it
..approaching the same view distance as the screen's diagonal measurement this results in a much better viewing angle to the extents of the screen and HUD elements (more or less an equilateral triangle/pyramid viewing angle cone)
..48 degree viewing angle at 4k.

120PPD+
..better than 20/10 vision; no one can "see" individual pixels as an obvious/aggressive structure. Anti-aliasing is only necessary in very high-contrast cases if at all.
..pretty extreme and practically unusable distance for a pc on 4k screens (that will change with 8k screens someday, where all these PPD distances will be halved).
..more useful for living room/home theater room environment viewing distances where you watch media without AA and text subsampling
..32 degree viewing angle at 4k.

Viewing Angle regardless of PPD:
..in my opinion, the best case is 45deg - 50 deg viewing angle so you can actually see the extents of the screen and the HUD elements, pointers, notifications, chat, etc without turning away from center in a more extreme amount to see them.
..as a rule of thumb you get what's more or less an equilateral triangle or pyramid viewing angle cone when your view distances is nearing the diagonal screen measurement.
=================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------


It should be ok looking at 60PPD+ (~33.5"+) or so if you rely on massaging cleartype settings or using a different type of text sub-sampling, as well as applying medium to high AA in games (at a performance hit).
However I recommend using it at up to ~80PPD 47" view distance where you don't have to rely on cleartype/AA as much to compensate. I use mine at 38" - 48" away which is 66.6 PPD to 81.5 PPD. This also provides a much better viewing angle of 58 degree to 48 degree to the extents for HUDs, notifications, pointers, text boxes, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in no way advocating for using LG OLEDs as static desktop/app monitors though. They are great for media and gaming.
A lot of RPG/MMO and RTS games have fine text in their character sheets, item descriptions, quest text, in-game-chat interfaces and combat logs, etc so you are still using fine text in a lot of games at 4k resolution. That very small text looks great at high PPD but they are also in directX/3D with AA available where the desktop/apps don't have AA and instead use cleartype/text subsampling. The text looks great in games to me at 38" - 48" view distance.

I've used different screen(s) for desktop/apps next to a more proper gaming screen since at least 2006. It's the best way to do it in my opinion and experience and that hasn't changed for me now.
 
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johnnysd

Limp Gawd
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Messages
235
The nearer you sit it's like going to look like 16bit and 8bit graphics (an exaggeration but you get my point).

View attachment 417153



Text sub-sampling just does a fog like anti aliasing effect but the text will be fringed when viewed up close.

View attachment 417154

View attachment 417155




Using the same cleartype tuning on one screen will not necessarily look the same or as good on another. You'd have to run through it again, perhaps several times until you get the best you can get for each particular screen.

View attachment 417156

You can also try mactype if you haven't. Incidentally they mention some problems in chrome browser specifically where firefox doesn't have the text problem just in case you are referencing your chrome use.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/ohute1/disable_rgb_cleartype_font_antialiasing/



60 PPD starts at almost 34" away.

View Distance is a huge factor in how aggressive the pixel structure appears and how aliased text and graphics are.

I would say the minimum in order to get a decent result would be 60PPD (33.5" away for a 48" 4k) but that still requires heavy cleartype tweaking or resorting to other subpixel rendering methods. It also requires more aggressive AA in games. All screens require a lot of compensation at 60PPD. I'm not saying it definitely is but if WRGB were slightly worse at nearer distances with smaller fonts down to 1:1 100% scaling then the view distance would be more crucial and would have to be bumped a bit farther.

I'll also mention that your OSD settings/calibration can affect how aliased text looks. That is mainly how contrasted text is vs the background. Since OLED is per pixel emissive and can do infinite black depth, it will have much higher contrast between black text and white background and vise-versa than non-OLED screens so it could potentially look slightly worse (more detailed and accurate really) just because of that to start with. Laptops and monitors with tv functionality in the past usually had a "text" or "reading" named setting just for text/reading which was less contrasted and less saturated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------


It should be ok looking at 60PPD+ (~33.5"+) or so if you rely on massaging cleartype settings or using a different type of text sub-sampling, as well as applying medium to high AA in games (at a performance hit).
However I recommend using it at up to ~80PPD 47" view distance where you don't have to rely on cleartype/AA as much to compensate. I use mine at 38" - 48" away which is 66.6 PPD to 81.5 PPD. This also provides a much better viewing angle of 58 degree to 48 degree to the extents for HUDs, notifications, pointers, text boxes, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in no way advocating for using LG OLEDs as static desktop/app monitors though. They are great for media and gaming.
A lot of RPG/MMO and RTS games have fine text in their character sheets, item descriptions, quest text, in-game-chat interfaces and combat logs, etc so you are still using fine text in a lot of games at 4k resolution. That very small text looks great at high PPD but they are also in directX/3D with AA available where the desktop/apps don't have AA and instead use cleartype/text subsampling. The text looks great in games to me at 38" - 48" view distance.

I've used different screen(s) for desktop/apps next to a more proper gaming screen since at least 2006. It's the best way to do it in my opinion and experience and that hasn't changed for me now.

I just ran the ClearType optimizer from 28" on my LG C1 and I guess I am pretty much blind. Every single example looked super crisp, I can not notice a "picture structure" at all. Some were more bold than others but there were no shadows or halos or jaggies or anything I could see on any of it. I do not notice much of a difference in AA settings in 4K either.

I have 20/20 vision but clearly people can see things I cannot.
 

elvn

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I just ran the ClearType optimizer from 28" on my LG C1 and I guess I am pretty much blind. Every single example looked super crisp, I can not notice a "picture structure" at all. Some were more bold than others but there were no shadows or halos or jaggies or anything I could see on any of it. I do not notice much of a difference in AA settings in 4K either.

I have 20/20 vision but clearly people can see things I cannot.


20/20 , 60PPD on a raw uncompensated screen still sees fairly aggressive pixel structure that requires AA and massaging text subsampling. Once you use those it looks ok.

Normal vision can actually see 20/15 ~ 80 PPD which needs AA lightly even at 80PPD at the fringes of highly contrasted areas.

Text subsampling is a form of AA so it definitely helps. As I said in my reply, highly contrasted text vs background can exacerbate fringing and OLED are both per pixel emissive AND infinite:1 contrast so you might have to sit farther away than you are used to because the text clarity and contrast are probably higher than an ips at the pixel and subpixel level. That and the white subpixel. Using dark themes and different settings for desktop/app use vs those you use for media and gaming could also help text contrast issues.

A 48" 4k screen is barely better ppi than a 31.5" 1440p screen so you really get better results sitting ~ 3' + away in order to get better PPD and finer pixels to your eyes. A 31.5" 1440p is usable at 1.5' to 2' away but it won't look optimal. For a 48" 4k sitting too near is also a really bad viewing angle besides for huds, notification, pointers, and text boxes, etc.

Doubling a reference view distance on a 1080p screen makes the PPD like a 4k screen, halving the perceived pixel size to your eyes. .. doubling a short distance on a 4k screen makes it like an 8k screen PPD wise in a way. Sitting half as far away from a set point does the opposite, making the screen's pixels be perceived like a lower resolution

I'd like to know how the oled text looks after massaging subsampling 34" away and 47" away , for the people who were complaining.
 
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elvn

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Yeah so

60PPD = 20/20 and on a 48" 4k starts at 33.5" view distance. AA and text AA/sub-sampling can make it look good enough but some people still don't prefer the text sub-sampling look at this level vs a higher rez/PPD screen or view distance where you see finer pixels to start with. The AA has to be a little more aggressive to look best in games so is also a performance hit. On a 4k screen the viewing angle is not great for gaming with any kind of huds, notifications, pointers, text boxes at the extents since it is being viewed at a 64deg angle.

80PPD = 20/15 (which most people can still see) and a 48" 4k starts at ~ 47" view distance. It still has aliasing where very high contrasted areas meet ("fringing") so requires moderate AA if you want to get rid of it. Especially on OLED's contrast or OLED in a HDR game but you can get away with less AA in games and even not use any depending on if it bothers you or how it looks on a particular game.

120 PPD = Where you really start to get fine enough pixels to your eyes in order to be able to get away with having no AA, though 200 is probably the real "threshold" for that. Until we get 8k screens this isn't reasonable distance wise for pc monitors and gaming screens. 8k will halve the PPD distances compared to 4k. Until then we are relying on different levels of AA and trying to massage text subsampling tuning until it looks "good enough" to our eyes.

For example a 48" 8k viewed at 36" away with a 60 deg viewing angle would be 127ppd. A 48" 8k viewed at 40" away for a better 55 deg horizontal viewing angle it would be 139ppd.

Imagine a display that has a resolution of less than 60 pixels/°, and try to render a 1/60° gap as a rectangle, using standard point sampling. If the rectangle falls entirely between two rows of pixels, it will not show up in the resulting image; if it happens to straddle a pixel row, it will suddenly show up. So < 60 pixels/° won't do it reliably (ignoring multisampling / supersampling for simplicity). In a display of exactly 60 pixels/°, no matter how you position the rectangle, it will always overlap exactly one pixel row, and show up reliably. Meaning, any display with a resolution of 60 pixels/° or more will be sufficient to reliably show a 20/20 vision test image. That said, at that minimum required resolution, the display will suffer from severe aliasing. Meaning, in practice, to present an image representing 20/20 vision and doing it well will require higher resolution than 60 pixels/°. There is no sudden threshold anymore above which it will be perfect. 90 pixels/° will look better, 120 pixels/° will look even better, and so forth.

On the other side it's more fuzzy, literally. A digital display is naturally point-sampled, and shows rectangles of more or less uniform brightness. The photosensitive cells on the eye's retina, on the other hand, are area sensors. Even if you had a density of less than 60 rods or cones per degree, you would still be able to detect a 1/60° gap. The limiting factor now is the dead space between the photosensitive areas, and the contrast between the feature and the background. If the dead space is ever bigger than 1/60° across, the eye might miss a 1/60° feature. But as long as a feature falls onto some photosensitive area, it will be detected, almost no matter how small it is, as long as it's high enough contrast against the background.

This is why we can see stars, which are typically much, much smaller than 1/60° across.

Contrast is important because the photocells capture light from an area. If a small feature is only a small part of an area, it needs to be much brighter or darker than the rest of the area to affect the area's average brightness enough to be detected. Meaning, the actual photocell density of the retina does not relate 1:1 to the size of features that can be seen. Features smaller than that density will still be seen, but progressively blurry as they get smaller, until they disappear.

Bottom line: "retinal resolution" is a rather slippery concept. If you're asking: "what's the smallest pixel that can still be seen?" you'll get a much larger number (in ppd) than if you're asking "what's the highest display resolution such that two adjacent pixels will be detected by two different photocells, so that they are detected as individual pixels?" The latter number is, in my opinion, more relevant. It determines whether, if you draw a checkerboard of alternating white and black pixels onto your display, will the eye perceive it as a checkerboard, or as a uniformly grey color at exactly 50% luminance? The 4k display I'm looking at right now is a good example. I can clearly see a single black pixel on a white background from where I'm sitting, but I have to get real close (and put on reading glasses) to see individual pixels in a checkerboard.
 
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Can anyone confirm if OLED Light 36 still measures around 120 nits for SDR Game Mode with the LG 48CX? I'm using that now and it looks great, so I'm starting to believe it is indeed still 120 nits. I have no way to measure though. My room has some lights on, but it is still dim I'd say. The image looks bright enough I think, it doesn't look overly dim. So that's a good sign I guess. However, it is very confusing to me how Vincent Teoh says 35 OL is actually 100 nits. I'd really like to know for sure whether I am looking at 100 nits or 120 nits... it's driving me a little crazy. I'm thinking maybe he measured it in PC Mode and that is why Game Mode is dimmer? I am in Game Console Input, so I wouldn't be surprised if 36 OL results in 120 nits on my panel. I just wish I could know for sure if I am seeing 100 nits or 120 nits, so if anyone has any insight or can share their experiences (maybe you own a 48CX and have OLED Light at 36 as well) I'd really appreciate it!
 
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