LG 48CX

gan7114

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Ok fair enough. Admittedly I haven't spend too much time with this yet. So you set it dark enough and then the ABL just won't even get triggered or activated at all ? I am not all hung up on peak brightness at all either.

Yeah, I mean, it's possible they will offer some configuration of ABL for SDR modes. If you calibrate the display at 100 or 120 nits(which are the usual standards for darkened room viewing) ABL should never trigger. But I also will say that the way ABL was applied on older OLEDs was faster and more disruptive/obvious than newer ones, which tend to just slowly dim brightness over a long period of time.

I'm probably wrong to say that it will never be an issue, in HDR modes it probably will show up sometimes in some games and stuff. On the desktop it shouldn't be a problem unless you set brightness high and use a lot of full screen white backgrounds.

I have never experienced ABL on my C9 because it's calibrated to under 150nits and I never use a fullscreen browser (waste of space).

ABSL though triggers pretty often when I leave windows open to work on stuff which is IMO way worse than regular ABL since it looks like the screen it fluctuating both up and down in brightness randomly. After a while you get use to it and forget it's there though.

Even in HDR games I don't really ever see ABL or it's gotten so much better with 2019 models that it's pretty transparent to the user.

You CAN turn ABSL(slow dimming on 'static' pixels) off in the service menu. For that one, definitely may cause increased risk of burn-in but that's about it.


If you turn down the OLED Brightness setting (different than the regular brightness setting), you'll rarely see ABL kick into action. I have my C7 set to somewhere between 30-40 and I almost never see ABL and I've owned the TV for over two years. The only times where I've actually noticed it is during political debates or during SOTU addresses, where you have a scene that is the same for a prolonged period of long time- the exact kind of situation you'd want ABL for. So it's actually pretty smart and works when it's supposed to. During regular TV viewing or gaming, it's not likely to activate. I would not turn it off.


Does anyone know whether it's safe to mount OLED screens in portrait/vertical mode? I'd assume that it should work fine, but I can't seem to find a lot of information about it.


Considering OLED can do this, I think it's safe:

 

Sancus

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If you turn down the OLED Brightness setting (different than the regular brightness setting), you'll rarely see ABL kick into action. I have my C7 set to somewhere between 30-40 and I almost never see ABL and I've owned the TV for over two years. The only times where I've actually noticed it is during political debates or during SOTU addresses, where you have a scene that is the same for a prolonged period of long time- the exact kind of situation you'd want ABL for. So it's actually pretty smart and works when it's supposed to. During regular TV viewing or gaming, it's not likely to activate. I would not turn it off.

I don't really get it. Did you read the thread? We're talking about desktop use, not TV viewing or gaming. And ABSL and ABL are two separate features that don't really interact.

It's easy to imagine ABSL getting annoying in desktop use when you have static windows on the screen for a long time, for example Word, Excel or a code editor. And please don't respond "but you shouldn't use OLED for that" because it's going to get used that way.
 

gan7114

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I don't really get it. Did you read the thread? We're talking about desktop use, not TV viewing or gaming. And ABSL and ABL are two separate features that don't really interact.

It's easy to imagine ABSL getting annoying in desktop use when you have static windows on the screen for a long time, for example Word, Excel or a code editor. And please don't respond "but you shouldn't use OLED for that" because it's going to get used that way.

As the creator of the thread, yes.

And well, it's true. It's already been well established and discussed around here that if what you're looking to do is spreadsheet work and word processing, OLED isn't you're best option. Any LCD as a second monitor would suffice, of which there are many cheap options available.
 

Skott

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Yeah if I was to buy a 48" OLED tv it would be for gaming. Movies too I suppose. I'd do the productivity and web browsing on a monitor most likely next to it. That's just how I am though. I usually have two or three screens on my table/desk (its a Ikea dining room table) so I have the room. Again that's just how I do things.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Yeah if I was to buy a 48" OLED tv it would be for gaming. Movies too I suppose. I'd do the productivity and web browsing on a monitor most likely next to it. That's just how I am though. I usually have two or three screens on my table/desk (its a Ikea dining room table) so I have the room. Again that's just how I do things.

This is what I do with smaller monitors, but... with a 48" main display, I feel that any 'side' monitors might be too far off to the sides / above to be comfortable to use for productivity...?
 
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gan7114

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This is what I do with smaller monitors, but... with a 48" main display, I feel that any 'side' monitors might be too far off to the sides / above to be comfortable to use for productivity...?

You could do something like an L-shaped corner desk. Your "main" monitor would actually be the smaller one (for web browsing and productivity), in the corner of the L. You could then wall mount the 48" on the long side, and simply re-orient yourself in your chair for gaming or entertainment. That's how I would do it.
 

Sancus

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And well, it's true. It's already been well established and discussed around here that if what you're looking to do is spreadsheet work and word processing, OLED isn't you're best option. Any LCD as a second monitor would suffice, of which there are many cheap options available.

I use my computer for all purposes, not just one or two, and I have no plans to keep a secondary LCD after I get a 48CX. There should be no reason to. I may or may not turn off ABSL, depends on how noticeable it turns out to be.

I can't see any legitimate reason not to use an OLED for work other than burn-in terror, and I don't care about that at all. If it somehow managed to burn in enough that it was distracting in normal usage(I do not believe this is actually possible), I'd just buy a new one, and count myself lucky that I still saved money compared to buying a PG32UQX.
 

Lateralus

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I use my computer for all purposes, not just one or two, and I have no plans to keep a secondary LCD after I get a 48CX. There should be no reason to. I may or may not turn off ABSL, depends on how noticeable it turns out to be.

I can't see any legitimate reason not to use an OLED for work other than burn-in terror, and I don't care about that at all. If it somehow managed to burn in enough that it was distracting in normal usage(I do not believe this is actually possible), I'd just buy a new one, and count myself lucky that I still saved money compared to buying a PG32UQX.

How I feel as well. Granted, I don't work in spreadsheets all day long but I do keep a Remote Desktop connection open for most of the day (along with various other windows) and I haven't had the slightest problem yet. I think one of the biggest mitigating factors is having a low OLED light setting.

Based on the fact that they've made improvements to the panel structure, it should be even less of a concern on the newer sets.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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I use my computer for all purposes, not just one or two, and I have no plans to keep a secondary LCD after I get a 48CX. There should be no reason to. I may or may not turn off ABSL, depends on how noticeable it turns out to be.

I can't see any legitimate reason not to use an OLED for work other than burn-in terror, and I don't care about that at all. If it somehow managed to burn in enough that it was distracting in normal usage(I do not believe this is actually possible), I'd just buy a new one, and count myself lucky that I still saved money compared to buying a PG32UQX.

The dynamic changes in brightness are definitely noticeable. How much it bothers you would vary I guess. There's also pixel shift which can be disabled. The main problem is really the text quality. ClearType doesn't work well on this pixel structure, and I got sick of that, so I disabled it and started using gray-scale font smoothing instead. It's better, but not nearly as good as ClearType on a good LCD.
 

NM64

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My experience is that most resolutions between 1440p and 4K when combined with image sharpening have good results.

3264x1836 using the new "GPU Scaling" option which is 0.85 of 4K + sharpening is the only sub 4K method I've found tolerable.

Another option is to use a custom resolution of 3840x1600.

I mean, since the display is 48 inches, cutting down the vertical resolution to turn it into a pseudo ultrawide should give an end result that's still larger than most natively ultrawide monitors (and it being OLED obviously means the black bars are going to be truly black as well so they'll blend in with the bezel and/or stand and such).

And then for desktop usage you can just use the full 3840x2160 resolution.
 

Seyumi

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Sadly I think Nvidia is whispering in LG's ear about their "gsync tax." I'm afraid the last several years of OLED's getting cheaper each year is now about to reverse course. Wouldn't surprised is now LG OLEDs will become more expensive each year just like each and every Nvidia-branded product ever made.
 

x3sphere

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Sadly I think Nvidia is whispering in LG's ear about their "gsync tax." I'm afraid the last several years of OLED's getting cheaper each year is now about to reverse course. Wouldn't surprised is now LG OLEDs will become more expensive each year just like each and every Nvidia-branded product ever made.

that would be counter productive to what LG want to achieve with OLED if they start raising prices. They want it to be mainstream, and it’s not going to get there without dropping the prices even more.

the TVs don’t contain any Gsync module so there is no added cost either. They can certainly choose to charge more for it regardless but I don’t see that happening unless LG maybe separates the gaming class TVs into a different segment. No indications of that happening though.
 

MistaSparkul

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Sadly I think Nvidia is whispering in LG's ear about their "gsync tax." I'm afraid the last several years of OLED's getting cheaper each year is now about to reverse course. Wouldn't surprised is now LG OLEDs will become more expensive each year just like each and every Nvidia-branded product ever made.

That doesn't make any sense. How many people who are buying these TV's is going to be mainly using it for PC gaming? A large amount sure but probably nowhere near the actual total sales numbers. Charging even higher prices for "gsync compatibility" when in the end not a huge percentage of the buyers would actually use it doesn't seem like something they would do.
 

Sancus

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There's no evidence that gsync compatible certification has raised the price of any freesync monitor(like all the good ones are certified at this point, too) so I'm not sure why it would in this case.
 

N4CR

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Sadly I think Nvidia is whispering in LG's ear about their "gsync tax." I'm afraid the last several years of OLED's getting cheaper each year is now about to reverse course. Wouldn't surprised is now LG OLEDs will become more expensive each year just like each and every Nvidia-branded product ever made.

Consoles will power more of these than any PC and consoles don't fall for the gstink tax.

Xbone and PrayStation will advertise VRR support and that'll be that.
 

IdiotInCharge

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just like each and every Nvidia-branded product ever made

You're off base also because this isn't remotely true. Further, as mentioned already, this is a product with G-Sync Certification, a service Nvidia is providing to pick up where AMD and their partners dropped the ball. Now, at least, we have a way to determine what level of VRR has been properly implemented.
 

gan7114

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LG's OLEDs are first and foremost TVs, and they market them as such despite having gamer-oriented "features" which are really just part of HDMI 2.1 as well as the overall superior aspects of OLED vs LCD.

NVIDIA's proprietary, walled-garden G-Sync basically had a quiet death. That happened when G-sync Compatible came along; since G-Sync and FreeSync tie into vanilla VRR now, there's no reason for people to pay the "G-Sync tax" for G-Sync Ultimate monitors. Consumers know this, and NVIDIA knows this.

Barring significant price reductions, "gaming monitors" will probably undergo a slow death too, and we'll look back at them as being an over-priced fad while we waited for superior technology to come along, all under one neat umbrella. We're on the cusp of that now in 2020.
 

gan7114

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Some new information regarding BFI, which it seems will be present in LG's 2020 OLEDs.

Via FlatPanelsHD: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1579257548

"With its 2020 OLED TVs, Sony will introduce X-Motion Clarity, which is made possible by LG Display's upgrade to a functional BFI system (Black Frame Insertion). The system will continuously "scan" the OLED display, meaning that a dark bar will roll (at 120Hz) from the top to the bottom - rather than using fullscreen black frames. The intended purpose here is to cancel the human eye's inherent memory effect that is a primary source for the perception of motion blur on LCD and OLED TVs (with sample-and-hold driving). By using these scanning effects to constantly "reset the eye", moving images will appear sharper. The scanning effect of the new BFI implementation is also faster than most eyes can perceive so we avoid negative effects such as flickering or reduction in brightness.

...the 120Hz BFI system... was intended to be included in the 2019 models but was pulled in the eleventh hour. It will now make its debut in 2020 OLED TVs and we look forward to testing it as soon as we get our hands on review samples."

Here's a YT vid of the rolling BFI system on the LG 48CX:

 

defaultluser

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This shouldn't cause-plasma-like flicker, due to the frame being lit for a majority of the time. And yes, this is a solution to losing half the brightness with traditional BFI.

I now have TWO reasons to upgrade my C7 :D Maybe in a couple of years, when I have some cash, and these are on Black Friday Clearance?
 

gan7114

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This shouldn't cause-plasma-like flicker, due to the frame being lit for a majority of the time. And yes, this is a solution to losing half the brightness with traditional BFI.

I now have TWO reasons to upgrade my C7 :D Maybe in a couple of years, when I have some cash, and these are on Black Friday Clearance?

It would also seem to have the added side effect of further mitigating (if not completely eliminating?) the chance for image-retention and burn-in.

This looks like a home run for LG. Can't believe this didn't gain more press coverage.
 

bananadude

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LG's OLEDs are first and foremost TVs, and they market them as such despite having gamer-oriented "features" which are really just part of HDMI 2.1 as well as the overall superior aspects of OLED vs LCD.


LG are pushing the gamer focused features of the X series more than any 'TV' ever has... they know it's a major selling point and have made a very conscious effort to market it towards gamers. Yes that's obviously owing to HDMI 2.1, but no other TV manufacturer is doing this, especially in how they've affiliated themselves with Nvidia... that's a CLEAR indication of their intent. Burn-in risk aside, LG actually have a more persuasive case for the 48" being used for gaming than most LCD monitors on the market (unless you're a pro-gamer of course), providing the size isn't a problem.
 

gamerk2

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It would also seem to have the added side effect of further mitigating (if not completely eliminating?) the chance for image-retention and burn-in.

This looks like a home run for LG. Can't believe this didn't gain more press coverage.

The irony here is that the TV people over at AVSforum are of the mindset of "nothing to see here", as they view the CX as a minor upgrade to the C9 at best. It's the PC population that's hyped for the CX, the TV population is much less excited.
 

RPGWiZaRD

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It would also seem to have the added side effect of further mitigating (if not completely eliminating?) the chance for image-retention and burn-in.

This looks like a home run for LG. Can't believe this didn't gain more press coverage.

Yea this is one of the major things why I'm so interested in exactly this. As in mostly for motion smoothness clarity increase but technically it should also help somewhat against burn-in, how much exactly is an interesting question for sure that noone will know immediatly but yea I cannot wait for these 48" 2020 OLEDs to come out, I will preorder whenever it shows up in a shop to be sure I'm one of the 1st as I expect especially the 48" of LG (and Sony, although LG does have a gamer advantage) fly off the shelves even if it was as much as $1199 but I have a feeling it will be $1099 at launch, $899 at next BF.
 

gan7114

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Yea this is one of the major things why I'm so interested in exactly this. As in mostly for motion smoothness clarity increase but technically it should also help somewhat against burn-in, how much exactly is an interesting question for sure that noone will know immediatly but yea I cannot wait for these 48" 2020 OLEDs to come out, I will preorder whenever it shows up in a shop to be sure I'm one of the 1st as I expect especially the 48" of LG (and Sony, although LG does have a gamer advantage) fly off the shelves even if it was as much as $1199 but I have a feeling it will be $1099 at launch, $899 at next BF.

I would be surprised if LG lists the 48CX that low.

Based on LG’s typical deep sale prices, especially around the holidays, I would peg the price around $1199-$1299 a year from now. Currently, the 55C9 is going for $1499, and the 65C9 at $2099. There definitely will not be a $600 difference between the 48” and 55”, for no other reason than the size difference isn’t as great.

But that assumes prices remain the same, so who knows. I can tell you when I bought my 55C7 on sale, it sure wasn’t $1499. More like $1999 at the time, a couple years ago. At the very least, we can expect 48” OLEDs in the coming years to be much more price-friendly than the majority of high end gaming monitors out there.
 

imsirovic5

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Interesting stats on PC monitor market, I did not realize 118 million PC monitors were shipped in a year. Another thing that I did not realize is that LG shipped 2.5M monitors in just one quarter (meaning they must sell nearly 10 million PC monitors in a year). Granted, most of these are lower to mid end. But even assuming 2% of total PC monitor shipments were high end, that is approximately 2.5 million monitors, or nearly half of planned LG OLED production in 2020 (across all sizes).

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44973819
 

Murzilka

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Interesting stats on PC monitor market, I did not realize 118 million PC monitors were shipped in a year. Another thing that I did not realize is that LG shipped 2.5M monitors in just one quarter (meaning they must sell nearly 10 million PC monitors in a year). Granted, most of these are lower to mid end. But even assuming 2% of total PC monitor shipments were high end, that is approximately 2.5 million monitors, or nearly half of planned LG OLED production in 2020 (across all sizes).

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44973819
Nice info. This is unexpected.
 
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N4CR

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Interesting stats on PC monitor market, I did not realize 118 million PC monitors were shipped in a year. Another thing that I did not realize is that LG shipped 2.5M monitors in just one quarter (meaning they must sell nearly 10 million PC monitors in a year). Granted, most of these are lower to mid end. But even assuming 2% of total PC monitor shipments were high end, that is approximately 2.5 million monitors, or nearly half of planned LG OLED production in 2020 (across all sizes).

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44973819
>Keanau Reeves woah.gif

Didn't expect that and it makes lot of sense to go for that market, consoles will lap it up as well...
 

SH1

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Some new information regarding BFI, which it seems will be present in LG's 2020 OLEDs.

Via FlatPanelsHD: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1579257548

"With its 2020 OLED TVs, Sony will introduce X-Motion Clarity, which is made possible by LG Display's upgrade to a functional BFI system (Black Frame Insertion). The system will continuously "scan" the OLED display, meaning that a dark bar will roll (at 120Hz) from the top to the bottom - rather than using fullscreen black frames. The intended purpose here is to cancel the human eye's inherent memory effect that is a primary source for the perception of motion blur on LCD and OLED TVs (with sample-and-hold driving). By using these scanning effects to constantly "reset the eye", moving images will appear sharper. The scanning effect of the new BFI implementation is also faster than most eyes can perceive so we avoid negative effects such as flickering or reduction in brightness.

...the 120Hz BFI system... was intended to be included in the 2019 models but was pulled in the eleventh hour. It will now make its debut in 2020 OLED TVs and we look forward to testing it as soon as we get our hands on review samples."

Here's a YT vid of the rolling BFI system on the LG 48CX:



So this new rolling bar motion solution of LG's...is it independent of input source and input frequency? Sounds like it might be a real game changer on that front.
 
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sharknice

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I knew most people underestimated the
So this new rolling bar motion solution of LG's...is it independent of input source and input frequency? Sounds like it might be a real game changer on that front.

Well they say it runs at 120hz so the source frame rate would have to be a factor of 120 for it to look good. It would be great if it was variable and you could use it with VRR. That's really the only significant upgrade they can make from here with OLEDs.
 

steal

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Remember that you always have the option to run these at 21:9 resolutions, so even though it'll be letterboxed, it won't actually be the full 48" size. You could just run these at 3840x1600 or something.

Annoyingly, HDMI 2.0 still does not have the bandwidth to support 3840x1600@120hz. Where the hell is HDMI 2.1?
 

defaultluser

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HDMI 2.0's bandwidth :p

You need to drop to 4:2:0 in order to do 3840x2160 8bit @ 120Hz over HDMI 2.0, with 4:2:2 you'd only be able to do 90Hz.

Sorry, I forgot about the bandwidth gained from Chroma subsampling options.

You do have that choice, though: for fast-paced games, you're unlikely to notice the drop in color fidelity of 4:2:0.
 
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Frameless

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3264x1836 using the new "GPU Scaling" option which is 0.85 of 4K + sharpening is the only sub 4K method I've found tolerable. Anything else whether using GPU/TV or integer scaling just looks utterly disgusting. The only way someone can say otherwise is if they sit 9FT away and even at that distance I can see how gross stuff within a few yards of your viewpoint in game become a disgusting blurry mess + all the aliasing everywhere.

I mean anything with any foilage (90% of games) looks terrible at anything but native 4K.

For as great a TV it is, in most cases when it comes to HDR gaming my PG27UQ provides an overall better experience. I find my C9 way too dim with HDR outside of letterboxed movies even with tonemapping turned on. The Asus has blooming galore in very dark scenes but it's way brighter and IMO has better colors.

I think 2021 is when the new generation OLED panels come which are suppose to reach 1000nits peak and 300nits full field.

1000 nits has already been reached by Panasonic and their special OLED backpanel cooling. RGB OLED will not change nits that much, but will make colors purer.
 

Armenius

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1000 nits has already been reached by Panasonic and their special OLED backpanel cooling. RGB OLED will not change nits that much, but will make colors purer.
The 2019 LG OLED are hitting close to 1000 nits peak brightness. I wonder if there is going to be any improvement with the 2020 series since they're apparently using an updated color filter.
 

gan7114

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The 2019 LG OLED are hitting close to 1000 nits peak brightness. I wonder if there is going to be any improvement with the 2020 series since they're apparently using an updated color filter.

That's interesting, I wonder if that'll have an improved effect on the color volume. IIRC, the 2019 OLEDs stood at around 85% DCI-P3 color volume, and a gamut around 96-97%.
 

Armenius

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That's interesting, I wonder if that'll have an improved effect on the color volume. IIRC, the 2019 OLEDs stood at around 85% DCI-P3 color volume, and a gamut around 96-97%.
Yes, according to the Rtings review. The new filter is supposedly to use less luminance to achieve the same color level to further reduce the risk of burn in. If that is the case then they should be able to get closer to 1000 nits. It will all depend on if LG adjusts the aggressiveness of ABL on whether or not we will see a real effective difference in HDR content.

upload_2020-1-23_13-5-19.png
 

bananadude

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Very keen for these to arrive... some unknowns, but literally nothing LCD based remotely interesting on the horizon, so I'm hoping this lives up to expectations. Have been very happy with my B9, so really it will just come down to how the choose to price the 48".
 
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