LG 48CX

N4CR

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I think the sub-pixel structure which doesn't play nice with ClearType is a bigger part of the problem than the PPI. I guess we'll have to wait for a 55" 8K to find out for sure...
Just need winblows to catch up to the fact that people are using OLED with such pixel structure.
BGR is also an issue on LCDs... they just need to get off their ass and program for it.
 

Sancus

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I think the sub-pixel structure which doesn't play nice with ClearType is a bigger part of the problem than the PPI. I guess we'll have to wait for a 55" 8K to find out for sure...

The subpixel structure may have some effect, yeah, but subpixel structure stops mattering at high enough PPI. You can easily see this effect in phones: People complained a lot about the PenTile layout on Samsung phones, but nobody talks about it anymore, even though they still use it. That's because you can't see subpixel effects at 500ppi even at 6" phone viewing distances. Distance also has a big effect. The fact that you are opposed to using scaling and want to fit so much text on the screen hurts you here, if you make text bigger, subpixel effects are less relevant.

Honestly, I think text rendering will be 100% fine using this 48" at normal viewing distance of 36". I have a 65" C9 and there are absolutely no issues with text rendering at 48" viewing distance at all.
 
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Bigmonitorguy

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The subpixel structure may have some effect, yeah, but subpixel structure stops mattering at high enough PPI. You can easily see this effect in phones: People complained a lot about the PenTile layout on Samsung phones, but nobody talks about it anymore, even though they still use it. That's because you can't see subpixel effects at 500ppi even at 6" phone viewing distances. Distance also has a big effect. The fact that you are opposed to using scaling and want to fit so much text on the screen hurts you here, if you make text bigger, subpixel effects are less relevant.

Honestly, I think text rendering will be 100% fine using this 48" at normal viewing distance of 36". I have a 65" C9 and there are absolutely no issues with text rendering at 48" viewing distance at all.

The font rendering on my 55" OLED still looks pretty lousy even from longer distances than my normal 28"... When I scale the fonts, they do look better, although still not great unless I make them quite large.

The fonts on my Samsung phone look awesome, but I can't tell if it's the PPI, tailored font smoothing implemented in Android, the sub-pixel structure, or a combination of the above.

The main reason I doubt the PPI theory, is that font rendering is great on my CRG9 which doesn't have a much higher PPI than my 55" OLED (108 vs 81), but has a standard RGB pixel structure. Also, font rendering on my Z43 with its BGR structure isn't as good as on my CRG9 even though the PPI is about the same (even the Z43 is much better than the 55" OLED, though).
 

Murzilka

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it's the inferior text rendering quality due to the special sub-pixel structure, but I can live with it - it's bad but not horrible.
My man, the text is perfect on the 55" OLED. Really, EIZO level. Check your display settings. On my C7 I have set H and V sharpness to 0 (zero), this have settled any questions I might have had regarding the text reproduction on the 55" OLED screen.
That's in PC mode 4:4:4 8 bit limited.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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My man, the text is perfect on the 55" OLED. Really, EIZO level. Check your display settings. On my C7 I have set H and V sharpness to 0 (zero), this have settled any questions I might have had regarding the text reproduction on the 55" OLED screen.
That's in PC mode 4:4:4 8 bit limited.

My sharpness is set to 0. I don't see separate H and V on my C9. Maybe it's a C7 thing? I am using PC mode 4:4:4 8-bit.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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There is indeed fringing even at 4:4:4. By the way, even at 4:4:4, white on blue and white on red text looks particularly bad when compared to an LCD (just not as bad as without 4:4:4).
 

bigbluefe

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GoldenTiger and Bigmonitorguy are right. They don't look as good up close. They'd be awesome for gaming though. Like I said, arcade cabinet applications seem really compelling to me.
 

Murzilka

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I told you in the other OLED thread that you're blind. Text and web content in general look like ass compared to a regular RGB monitor.
Not only you suck, but also your phone. Here how it really looks like:
XcxP7mL.png


I just want to make sure everyone understands this image correctly - you don't see the green, red and blue pixels. All you see with your eyes, no matter how close you are, is a perfect white text.

My sharpness is set to 0. I don't see separate H and V on my C9. Maybe it's a C7 thing? I am using PC mode 4:4:4 8-bit.
Yeah, probably it's a C7 thing. You may try different settings.
 
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Murzilka

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Probably, the uncalibrated displays with bad sharpness settings emphasize the red-green-blue pixels around the letters.... Mine is calibrated, so the effect is not visible. Just a theory.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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White-on-black text is relatively not so bad (but still not as good as on LCD monitors). Black-on-white is worse, and some other combinations like white-on-red are even worse. This is on the C9. I don't know about the C7.
 

RPGWiZaRD

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I like how 90% of the OLED 48" TV discussion about using it as a display, I'm probably in the great minority here but I will pick one up day one for TV use to replace my aging 10 year old Panasonic Plasma 42" with some burn in (still 10 years is a decent run, burn in or not).

But I also do like the sound of OLED, 48", 4K, 120Hz, ULMB combination no doubt for display usage even though I'm not a person that's favoring exceptionally large monitor (I'm more into say the upcoming 31.5" 1440p high refresh rate 240Hz IPS alternatives atm).
 

N4CR

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But I also do like the sound of OLED, 48", 4K, 120Hz, ULMB combination no doubt for display usage even though I'm not a person that's favoring exceptionally large monitor (I'm more into say the upcoming 31.5" 1440p high refresh rate 240Hz IPS alternatives atm).

I think these OLEDs will be clearer than most HRR LCDs due to the way they display images and smearing of LCD but will be very curious to hear your take on it.
 

gan7114

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Another early review:

https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/lg-oled48cx-lg-cx-range

Speculates launch price between $1,000 to $1,500

I like how they say "won't be cheap" as one of the cons, yet, in relation to all the >$1000 LCD monitors from ASUS, Acer, MSI, etc this will be a comparative bargain.

If the 48CX does in fact come in at $1000-$1500 (which is likely, given the historical on-sale price of LG's 55"), everything else is DOA.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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I just looked closely at white-on-black text on my C9, and it looks similar to Murzilka's image. There is a fringe, mostly of red followed by green. Sometimes it's even inside the letter, such is with the letter "y". It does affect the look of the fonts. You may not see the individual colors from a reasonable distance, but it smears the font, and makes it look fuzzy and rough. Even a period (".") is smeared because it's a white period followed in close proximity by a red period followed by a green period.
 

tybert7

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I just looked closely at white-on-black text on my C9, and it looks similar to Murzilka's image. There is a fringe, mostly of red followed by green. Sometimes it's even inside the letter, such is with the letter "y". It does affect the look of the fonts. You may not see the individual colors from a reasonable distance, but it smears the font, and makes it look fuzzy and rough. Even a period (".") is smeared because it's a white period followed in close proximity by a red period followed by a green period.


How far away from the screen can you detect a difference? 3 feet? 4? 2?

Whatever the answer is, I wonder what reduction in distance for detection will be there shrinking the display from 55 inches to 48 inches.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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How far away from the screen can you detect a difference? 3 feet? 4? 2?

Whatever the answer is, I wonder what reduction in distance for detection will be there shrinking the display from 55 inches to 48 inches.

It doesn't look good from 3ft - you just see fewer of the details that cause the problem than you do at my normal distance of 28in, but the fonts still look smeared and not well-rendered. At 4ft, I can't read the normal-size fonts comfortably - it's too far away. In other words, there is not a distance where it looks good and you can actually read it without strain.
 

tybert7

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It doesn't look good from 3ft - you just see fewer of the details that cause the problem than you do at my normal distance of 28in, but the fonts still look smeared and not well-rendered. At 4ft, I can't read the normal-size fonts comfortably - it's too far away. In other words, there is not a distance where it looks good and you can actually read it without strain.


How hard would it be to do a clear type for oled displays with the lg display characteristics? Isn't this just something that ought to be a relatively easy software tweak that microsoft could release?
 
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Bigmonitorguy

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ClearType interaction with the sub-pixel structure is definitely part of the problem. I just disabled it, and the colorful fringing is gone. There's still some gray-scale font smoothing going on in this case. Fonts still don't look good, so not sure if this is helpful - I'll play with it some more.

I'm not a font smoothing expert, so I don't know whether it would be possible for Microsoft to add support for this sub-pixel structure which would make fonts look good. There's that extra white sub-pixel, plus I think not all the sub-pixels are of the same size which may complicate things further.
 

Sancus

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ClearType should always be off on any display that isn't standard RGB or BGR(if set accordingly). I turned it off when I tried my 65C9 connected to a PC.

I also don't think it is a reasonable expectation to use these displays at distances and with scaling such that it creates single-pixel-width characters. I mean, they're TVs. I expect to be using my 48CX at 1.25 scaling, maybe even 1.5x, too lazy to figure it out in advance. The optimal viewing distance for a 55" is 41" and font sizes should be set accordingly.

Is that a compromise compared to an LCD? I mean, yeah, I guess, sure. The only real potential fix is if Microsoft adds support to ClearType, which they may do eventually if a lot of people start buying these types of displays for computer use. RGB OLED is not ever going to be a thing at these display sizes.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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Disabling ClearType makes white-on-black text and white-on-red text look better, but black-on-white text looks worse. Can't really win with text quality on this display, although it's not a killer issue for me. I can try DPI scaling as an experiment, but then I might as well just use a good LCD like the CRG9 for text, and use the OLED just for videos and some games. The whole point for me in using the 55" OLED for text was to make it possible to get more text on the screen by avoiding scaling.
 

Bigmonitorguy

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I guess another option would be to get a 55" LCD TV, but I don't know if there are some gotchas there as well in terms of font rendering when compared to monitors...
 

Seyumi

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Geeze everyone’s just talking about slightly blurry text which is unnoticeable as I speak from experience.

Go get some garbage LCD panel with shitty & grainy matte coating, smearing, BLB, color shift, gray blacks, etc. if all you care about is typing documents all day. I’m sure the sharper text on your word document will be well worth it versus OLED image quality /rollseyes. There’s plenty of SMALLER $1000-$3700 panels right up your alley that will look and feel like garbage next to any $1000 48” OLED.
 
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bananadude

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Disabling ClearType makes white-on-black text and white-on-red text look better, but black-on-white text looks worse. Can't really win with text quality on this display, although it's not a killer issue for me. I can try DPI scaling as an experiment, but then I might as well just use a good LCD like the CRG9 for text, and use the OLED just for videos and some games. The whole point for me in using the 55" OLED for text was to make it possible to get more text on the screen by avoiding scaling.

The CRG9 is not good for text.
 

N4CR

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Geeze everyone’s just talking about slightly blurry text which is unnoticeable as I speak from experience.

Go get some garbage LCD panel with shitty & grainy matte coating, smearing, BLB, color shift, gray blacks, etc. if all you care about is typing documents all day. I’m sure the sharper text on your word document will be well worth it versus OLED image quality /rollseyes. There’s plenty of SMALLER $1000-$3700 panels right up your alley that will look and feel like garbage next to any $1000 48” OLED.

why not both.jpg
My U2711 definitely won't be going anywhere if the text isn't up to standard on OLED. Fine enough PPI for me and will serve fine as a second monitor if I mount it off to the side or on a moving roof-mount.
As far as LCD is concerned I think OLED by virtue of how it works will blow most of the 144Hz and 240Hz smearfest gaming screens out of the water. Especially on clarity, colour and black levels.. playing horror games is going to be a real treat.
 

gan7114

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View attachment 214706
My U2711 definitely won't be going anywhere if the text isn't up to standard on OLED. Fine enough PPI for me and will serve fine as a second monitor if I mount it off to the side or on a moving roof-mount.
As far as LCD is concerned I think OLED by virtue of how it works will blow most of the 144Hz and 240Hz smearfest gaming screens out of the water. Especially on clarity, colour and black levels.. playing horror games is going to be a real treat.

I used to own the Dell U2711, the grain from the hard coating on that was intense. It caused me to get a U2713 a couple years later, which I still use to this day, and like you I'm holding out. But at least I got to enjoy 1440p well before it was what all the cool kids use.

Once new GPUs with HDMI 2.1 arrive, I will consider finally moving on.
 

N4CR

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I used to own the Dell U2711, the grain from the hard coating on that was intense. It caused me to get a U2713 a couple years later, which I still use to this day, and like you I'm holding out. But at least I got to enjoy 1440p well before it was what all the cool kids use.

Once new GPUs with HDMI 2.1 arrive, I will consider finally moving on.
2711 AG is a tricky one for me.
Yes it's very grainy. I nearly did the removal trick BUT the few times I've needed to use it in intense light or similar (it's not always in one place..) has made up for it.

And yes it was pretty funny running 1440P in a time when 720P was still common, great upgrade at the time. 2160p this time around is a little different (bit more established on painfully small screens or existing TVs) , but I may jump on one of these before HDMI 2.1 for the simple fact that it can still be driven at lower bitrate initially, or 60-98?Hz for full colour use while giving a good productivity boost and making movies great again..
Then it's just a simple GPU upgrade. Hopefully both companies have those options. New consoles have HDMI 2.1 so AMD has no excuse and Nvidia would be stupid not to.
 

kasakka

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Some more info about the 2020 LG OLEDs and a bit of footage for the CX 48".

The rep also confirmed that LG C9 series will work at 4K 120 Hz once HDMI 2.1 GPUs are out. I do hope that they release a firmware update to allow 4K @ 120 Hz 4:2:0 on the C9 as well because I don't see why that would be a hardware issue at all.
 

gan7114

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Although it's not related to the 48CX, I figure since it straddles the line between living room game console and desktop PC use, some here (like myself) might also be interested in audio to go along with it.

Well, it seems AVRs with HDMI 2.1 will finally be arriving!

I couldn't find a whole lot of info about AVRs out of CES 2020. However, there are a couple noteworthy images, specifically Yamaha:

screenshot2020-01-10-maison-adam-au-ces2020-jour-3-audio-yamaha-et-autres-youtube4_985307.png

1_985300.png



So we have:

TVs? Check.
AVRs? Check.
Game Consoles? Check (Holiday 2020)
GPUs? ...

Just waiting on you, AMD and NVIDIA.
 
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kasakka

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Although it's not related to the 48CX, I figure since it straddles the line between living room game console and desktop PC use, some here (like myself) might also be interested in audio to go along with it.

Well, it seems AVRs with HDMI 2.1 will finally be arriving!

I couldn't find a whole lot of info about AVRs out of CES 2020. However, there is a YT french review of AVRs, specifically Yamaha:




View attachment 214759
View attachment 214760


So we have:

TVs? Check.
AVRs? Check.
Game Consoles? Check (Holiday 2020)
GPUs? ...

Just waiting on you, AMD and NVIDIA.


Depending on the price might be finally time to upgrade my roughly 10 years old Denon AVR-1610. I have been running all my HDMI through my TV and optical out to the receiver because the Denon adds a ton of input lag and is not 4K compatible.
 

sharknice

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HDMI 2.1 on receivers is cool, but I'll probably still connect straight to the tv and use arc to the receiver to guarantee no added input lag or weird image processing and be able to use the tv remote to control everything.
 

Zavon

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Considering no price has been announced yet, I'm assuming this is going to hover around $10-1300 since the current c9 55 can be had all day long for $1500ish. If it's on that lower end, I would absolutely pick one up since the 55 is a bit large for my needs.
 

kasakka

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Considering no price has been announced yet, I'm assuming this is going to hover around $10-1300 since the current c9 55 can be had all day long for $1500ish. If it's on that lower end, I would absolutely pick one up since the 55 is a bit large for my needs.

I would expect higher because that's how LG pricing has gone in the past.

yearly-price-tv-deals.png
 
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