equinox654
Gawd
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I have around 3' from my eyes to the panel.
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LG 48CX
- Thread starter gan7114
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Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
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That’s legit.
I’ve heard other stories of LG being overly generous with panel replacements/warranty work. That wasn’t my experience when it came to the “business” version of their first 34” ultrawide which was supposed to have a better warranty than the consumer model.
Maybe it only applies to their OLED TVs, or they’ve improved their warranty policies since 2015. Either way, that’s awesome.
elvn
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I sprung for the best buy warranty when I purchased my LG CX since it's one of the only ext. warranties verified to cover burn in. Over 5 yrs it comes out to around $60 insurance/year for the 48" CX. If I end up getting an oled tv for the living room I'll probably do the same thing even though the warranty is a lot more expensive and harder to swallow on larger models (prob wait for a bestbuy black friday deal to offset that cost a little). Worth it for peace of mind - especially on a screen that isn't solely used by me in the living room.
I'll mention again that my oculus quest (1) died just around the 2 year mark, stuck on the boot screen no matter what I did .. I went through the ticket process and all of the resets etc but I'm left with a ($450 higher memory model at the time I purchased) brick and a bunch of quality of life peripherals/head set mods (~ $250+) and also some VR specific games I bought that are useless now. I know a quest 2 is "only" $300 but still, companies don't back up fragile electronics much so the more the price tag is and how fragile the electronics are the more I look at ext. warranty. Quest1 is 1 yr mfg warranty in usa and 2 yrs mfg warranty in UK btw. The last 8 months of my quest 1 use has been mostly sit down gaming on occasion and some demoing of things, nothing extreme or violent. Other than that it's been on a shelf. There are some better vr headsets in the works so I'm going to wait it out on that front now. Not very happy with the whole FB thing anyway.
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Not sure if anyone posted this here before. It's another video showcasing LG OLEDs in ultrawide modes I saw posted on reddit. I'm not a fan of shrinking it to 32:9 (1080h) but still pretty cool options. 21:9 is more viable/useful to me for some games.
Edit:
Perhaps in the future with a larger 8k (7680 x 4320) screen we could do:
21:9 resolution as 7680 x 3290
and
32:9 as 7680 x 2160 resolution.
As that video said, you'd actually want a much larger screen than 48" to do 32:9 with and imo higher than 1080px tall.
With a 48" screen, 32:9 is the full screen width of 42.1" by only 11.8" high according to that vid.
Roughly based on screen dimensions, probably a little smaller in actual screen viewable:
65" 16:9 TV ~ 56.7" wide x 31.9" high
.............. 60 PPD 20/20 vision threshold starts at: 14.6" viewing distance for 8k ,... 45.3" viewing distance for 4k
.................80 PPD 20/15 vision threshold starts at: 26.9" viewing distance for 8k .... 63.6" viewing distance for 4k
................ 8k would allow much nearer even for 20/15 but you still wouldn't see the extents and HUD best until you approached the screen diagonal as the view distance (though you might want somewhat closer to get peripheral immersion for driving and flight games in uw modes)
-------> 21:9 ~ 61.5" diagonal at 24.1" high
-------> 32:9 ~ 58" diagonal at 16" high
55" 16:9 TV ~ 47.9" wide x 27" high
.............. 60 PPD 20/20 vision threshold starts at: 12.3" viewing distance for 8k.... 38.4" viewing distance for 4k
.................80 PPD 20/15 vision threshold starts at: 22.8" viewing distance for 8k.....53.8" viewing distance for 4k
................ 8k would allow much nearer even for 20/15 but you still wouldn't see the extents and HUD best until you approached the screen diagonal as the view distance (though you might want somewhat closer to get peripheral immersion for driving and flight games in uw modes)
--------> 21:9 ~ 52" diagonal at 20.5" high
--------> 32:9 ~ 49.5" diagonal at 13.4" high
I think for now the 3840 x1620 uw is a great option physical size wise on the 48" though and resolution wise considering gpu power, along with 16:9 4k at 33.5" to 38"-40" distance.
In the future we might have a larger wall of screen resolution and need to letterbox all 4 sides ... at least until mixed reality gets high enough resolution. You could do that on a large 8k screen even, putting 4k resolution or 3840x1600 21:9 version in the middle letterboxed on all 4 sides for gaming but it would have to be a big 8k screen to start with.
I'll mention again that my oculus quest (1) died just around the 2 year mark, stuck on the boot screen no matter what I did .. I went through the ticket process and all of the resets etc but I'm left with a ($450 higher memory model at the time I purchased) brick and a bunch of quality of life peripherals/head set mods (~ $250+) and also some VR specific games I bought that are useless now. I know a quest 2 is "only" $300 but still, companies don't back up fragile electronics much so the more the price tag is and how fragile the electronics are the more I look at ext. warranty. Quest1 is 1 yr mfg warranty in usa and 2 yrs mfg warranty in UK btw. The last 8 months of my quest 1 use has been mostly sit down gaming on occasion and some demoing of things, nothing extreme or violent. Other than that it's been on a shelf. There are some better vr headsets in the works so I'm going to wait it out on that front now. Not very happy with the whole FB thing anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if anyone posted this here before. It's another video showcasing LG OLEDs in ultrawide modes I saw posted on reddit. I'm not a fan of shrinking it to 32:9 (1080h) but still pretty cool options. 21:9 is more viable/useful to me for some games.
Edit:
Perhaps in the future with a larger 8k (7680 x 4320) screen we could do:
21:9 resolution as 7680 x 3290
and
32:9 as 7680 x 2160 resolution.
As that video said, you'd actually want a much larger screen than 48" to do 32:9 with and imo higher than 1080px tall.
With a 48" screen, 32:9 is the full screen width of 42.1" by only 11.8" high according to that vid.
Roughly based on screen dimensions, probably a little smaller in actual screen viewable:
65" 16:9 TV ~ 56.7" wide x 31.9" high
.............. 60 PPD 20/20 vision threshold starts at: 14.6" viewing distance for 8k ,... 45.3" viewing distance for 4k
.................80 PPD 20/15 vision threshold starts at: 26.9" viewing distance for 8k .... 63.6" viewing distance for 4k
................ 8k would allow much nearer even for 20/15 but you still wouldn't see the extents and HUD best until you approached the screen diagonal as the view distance (though you might want somewhat closer to get peripheral immersion for driving and flight games in uw modes)
-------> 21:9 ~ 61.5" diagonal at 24.1" high
-------> 32:9 ~ 58" diagonal at 16" high
55" 16:9 TV ~ 47.9" wide x 27" high
.............. 60 PPD 20/20 vision threshold starts at: 12.3" viewing distance for 8k.... 38.4" viewing distance for 4k
.................80 PPD 20/15 vision threshold starts at: 22.8" viewing distance for 8k.....53.8" viewing distance for 4k
................ 8k would allow much nearer even for 20/15 but you still wouldn't see the extents and HUD best until you approached the screen diagonal as the view distance (though you might want somewhat closer to get peripheral immersion for driving and flight games in uw modes)
--------> 21:9 ~ 52" diagonal at 20.5" high
--------> 32:9 ~ 49.5" diagonal at 13.4" high
I think for now the 3840 x1620 uw is a great option physical size wise on the 48" though and resolution wise considering gpu power, along with 16:9 4k at 33.5" to 38"-40" distance.
In the future we might have a larger wall of screen resolution and need to letterbox all 4 sides ... at least until mixed reality gets high enough resolution. You could do that on a large 8k screen even, putting 4k resolution or 3840x1600 21:9 version in the middle letterboxed on all 4 sides for gaming but it would have to be a big 8k screen to start with.
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Running at 32:9 becomes more an issue of not having curvature on the screen so it's awkward to use. Though the 3840x1080 resolution in that situation does not help either. I think the CX works best as an ultrawide using 3840x1600.
Maybe 3840x1200 would be worth a try as well? I tried one of the 43" Samsungs with that res and thought it worked much better than the 49" 3840x1080 model.
Maybe 3840x1200 would be worth a try as well? I tried one of the 43" Samsungs with that res and thought it worked much better than the 49" 3840x1080 model.
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harvindhillon
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Yea I usually have the 3840x1600 on RPGs like cyberpunk and horizon zero dawn, and the extra real-estate does help. I think 1080p would be too wide and distorted.
B6 owner here, I've definitely run into burn in, the worst of it was done early back when I was still blasting the backlight. In my case, it was the Taskbar that did me in. But after years of very heavy use (including two years plus WFH) I do so other areas starting to degrade (specifically, I can see areas where the panel simply can't drive the pixels as bright, which corresponds to where I put my Windows while I'm WFH). Granted, the B6 was before most of the anti-burn in tech went into the sets, and blasting the OLED backlight didn't help. But I would say that if you use OLED heavily you *will* likely need one panel replacement over the sets lifetime, which isn't ideal. And that's something people just aren't used to.
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
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Yeah, your situation is a bit unique when presented in this thread considering the generational panel improvements and increased knowledge about OLED best practices (when used as a monitor, anyway).
1 - Your B6 is what, 5+ years old at this point? As you've said, LG has improved their panel tech to make newer ones less susceptible to burn-in.
2 - You admittedly blasted the backlight, possibly combined with #3 below
3 - As far as your WFH and window placement, did you tend to keep your windows in the same position on screen? I try to vary this, myself.
At the end of the day, as I've stated before, I'd rather replace my screen every 5 years than deal with LCD shortcomings. But, here's the thing...I don't think that will be necessary. There are several factors to take into account here. If you had taken the appropriate precautions with your B6, you might not have experienced any burn-in. Or, if you had a newer improved panel and used it the same way you did then, you might not have had burn-in. My point is that if you have a newer panel -and- you don't blast the backlight -and- you make an effort to reduce static content, these should last years without noticeable image degradation. I used my B7 for 2.5 years (with 1.5 years of that being WFH) and now my CX is going on 1.5 years old of daily WFH 10+ hour a day use and it is as beautiful and uniform as ever if I throw up a light grey full screen fill in MS Paint.
I didn't opt for an extended warranty, but the people who did should sleep soundly knowing that should something happen within several years of owning the thing, they'll be covered. I'm personally not worried about it after my B7 ownership experience. If I get 5 years of 8-10 hour per day monitor use out of the CX, I'll just replace it with whatever's better then. Every display is a compromise and these OLEDs have had the least amount of drawbacks out of any monitor I've used in 25 years of PC gaming so I'll do my best to take care of them and make them last until a superior display tech is mainstream.
elvn
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People overstate burn in. There are asbl and abl auto brightness limiters that kick in and there is also a wear evening routine that the (LG) screens do every so often (intelligently based on wear/use) in standby. The highest brightness ranges (outside of what you are able to utilize yourself normally) are reserved for this so you have a buffer that will last a long time depending on your usage scenario. They also use a pixel shift tech and a static logo dimming tech.
LG oleds are not like phone and tablet handhelds either. They use an all white array of emitters that go through color filters (instead of a different color oled for each color) - which helps with wear evening. The extra blank subpixel they include in WRGB shows pure white which also allows them to cheat a higher brightness color to your eyes at lower OLED energy states/heat than otherwise .. with minimal color pollution vs accuracy by the white.
--------------
In regard to running 21:10 material: utilizing the wear-evening routine, the bars will be worn down to the same levels as the rest of the screen you are using. That should last for a long time - until the whole screen ran out of the reserved brightness range buffer. Basically, the wear evening routine would make it so that it is as if you had been using the whole screen (16:9) even if you mainly used 21:10 mode.
It will only have worn the emitters out to below the stock levels when the whole screen runs down beneath the wear-evening buffer.
--------------
So the newer OLEDs have better protections from burn in than the older ones. They reserve a relatively large brightness range (the last 25% I believe) for screen wear evening, have logo dimming feature (static image after 5 mins I think). There is also a "turn of the screen" emitters without going into standby feature you can use whenever you go afk or aren't actively using the screen (sort of like minimizing the screen contents but emitters entirely off). The screen doesn't drop out of the array and as far as the system and running content is concerned the screen is still "on". One touch of the remote wakes the emitters up. If you utilize that every time you aren't giving the screen face time you should extend the lifespan considerably.
You can also spring for the bestbuy warranty at purchase, which for a 48" screen came out to around $60 a year for 5 yrs insurance vs burn in and any other issues. So you'd be in the clear for at least 5 years (maybe more if you had to get a replacement late in the 5 yr period). That's what I did with mine.
That said, user etiquette and people potentially bypassing recommended safety features and brightness settings, overriding things or just being sloppy can increase the odds. OLED are also susceptible to heat so having sunlight blast one can be bad (e.g. the TV's back against a window with sun exposure), non-air conditioned very hot summer environments, etc.. In the same vein, some of the panasonic oleds in the UK came with a full sheet of metal heatsink on the back of the oled screen internally which allowed them to hit higher peak color volumes safely.
---------------------------------------------
I use mine as a media and gaming "stage" with a different screen on the side for desktop/app use.
Even so, I use ultra black wallpaper and keep all of my icons in a favorited/bookmarked folder in my file manager. Win button opens start menu if you need it. Win+S and typing 2 keys + enter opens practically anything. Win+Tab switches between apps. Little reason to use a taskbar outside of the system tray for certain apps really. If you have a streamdeck , even less reason. So I use a show/hide hotkey toggle in taskbarhider app to lock the taskbar away as well as using translucent taskbar app to make it's background clear. I can also drag it to a secondary monitor if I want to.
And like I said, I have the 5 yr best buy warranty which covers burn-in so I'm pretty much covered. It came out to around $60 a year insurance. I still use good screen etiquette though. By the time 5 years or so is up, if not a bit sooner, I'll be likely be looking for a different screen.
--------------------------------------------
LG oleds are not like phone and tablet handhelds either. They use an all white array of emitters that go through color filters (instead of a different color oled for each color) - which helps with wear evening. The extra blank subpixel they include in WRGB shows pure white which also allows them to cheat a higher brightness color to your eyes at lower OLED energy states/heat than otherwise .. with minimal color pollution vs accuracy by the white.
--------------
In regard to running 21:10 material: utilizing the wear-evening routine, the bars will be worn down to the same levels as the rest of the screen you are using. That should last for a long time - until the whole screen ran out of the reserved brightness range buffer. Basically, the wear evening routine would make it so that it is as if you had been using the whole screen (16:9) even if you mainly used 21:10 mode.
It will only have worn the emitters out to below the stock levels when the whole screen runs down beneath the wear-evening buffer.
--------------
So the newer OLEDs have better protections from burn in than the older ones. They reserve a relatively large brightness range (the last 25% I believe) for screen wear evening, have logo dimming feature (static image after 5 mins I think). There is also a "turn of the screen" emitters without going into standby feature you can use whenever you go afk or aren't actively using the screen (sort of like minimizing the screen contents but emitters entirely off). The screen doesn't drop out of the array and as far as the system and running content is concerned the screen is still "on". One touch of the remote wakes the emitters up. If you utilize that every time you aren't giving the screen face time you should extend the lifespan considerably.
You can also spring for the bestbuy warranty at purchase, which for a 48" screen came out to around $60 a year for 5 yrs insurance vs burn in and any other issues. So you'd be in the clear for at least 5 years (maybe more if you had to get a replacement late in the 5 yr period). That's what I did with mine.
That said, user etiquette and people potentially bypassing recommended safety features and brightness settings, overriding things or just being sloppy can increase the odds. OLED are also susceptible to heat so having sunlight blast one can be bad (e.g. the TV's back against a window with sun exposure), non-air conditioned very hot summer environments, etc.. In the same vein, some of the panasonic oleds in the UK came with a full sheet of metal heatsink on the back of the oled screen internally which allowed them to hit higher peak color volumes safely.
---------------------------------------------
I use mine as a media and gaming "stage" with a different screen on the side for desktop/app use.
Even so, I use ultra black wallpaper and keep all of my icons in a favorited/bookmarked folder in my file manager. Win button opens start menu if you need it. Win+S and typing 2 keys + enter opens practically anything. Win+Tab switches between apps. Little reason to use a taskbar outside of the system tray for certain apps really. If you have a streamdeck , even less reason. So I use a show/hide hotkey toggle in taskbarhider app to lock the taskbar away as well as using translucent taskbar app to make it's background clear. I can also drag it to a secondary monitor if I want to.
And like I said, I have the 5 yr best buy warranty which covers burn-in so I'm pretty much covered. It came out to around $60 a year insurance. I still use good screen etiquette though. By the time 5 years or so is up, if not a bit sooner, I'll be likely be looking for a different screen.
--------------------------------------------
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sharknice
2[H]4U
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The panel tech itself and the firmware were both drastically improved to prevent burn in.
They were fine for TVs before, but I don't think they were ready for monitor use until the 2019 models with regard to burn-in, unless you wanted to take a lot of extra precautions. Whereas with 2019 and newer models won't get burn in unless you abuse them.
Personally I would think it's still worth buying an OLED for a monitor even if it was expected to only last 5 years (but I think it will last much longer). High end "comparable" LCD monitors are more expensive and still have vastly inferior image quality. The only advantage an LCD has is longevity. That's very low on the priority list for someone buying the absolute highest end best technology, because something much better will be out 10 years, 5 years, 3 years, sometimes even a year later.
That's why I think if you're in the market for the highest end display you can get OLED is by far the best option. If you're worried about spending that much and it only lasting 3 years you probably shouldn't be spending that much to begin with and instead going with a mid-range LCD.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing. Barring a 55" MicroLED, I'm going OLED again. But it *is* something you need to be honest about when recommending people get OLEDs. And I'm *always* cautious to remind people my B6 was before a lot of the anti-burn in tech started to make its way into the panels.
Yep, OLED is amazing and will serve a lot of people well but it is definitely not for everyone in its current iteration. I don't know how much the tech can be refined but I guess it will never be ideal for monitor use in bright rooms for example.
HDR will also gain more and more traction and super bright highlights will most likely remain challenging. It doesn't matter to me right now but once high quality HDR is everywhere and LCDs have a gazillion zones it will be a different story and I think that future is not very far off. OLED will still have some strengths even then but it may not be as much of a winner as it is now.
HDR will also gain more and more traction and super bright highlights will most likely remain challenging. It doesn't matter to me right now but once high quality HDR is everywhere and LCDs have a gazillion zones it will be a different story and I think that future is not very far off. OLED will still have some strengths even then but it may not be as much of a winner as it is now.
It's an interim tech for sure hopefully replaced by micro-LED. How long it will take for us to get monitors using that tech is unknown but I expect initially micro-LED will be limited to large TVs while mini-LEDs and OLEDs are the defacto tech for monitors.
elvn
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In the longer run, we'll likely have very high rez VR headsets with mixed reality .. but will also have probably have narrower rendering FoV lightweight and non-bulky AR/Mixed reality glasses that are capable of showing media and virtual screens. Those might still be oled and even clear oled layers too, at least initially.
baby steps:
https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/htcs-new-vr-headset-appears-to-have-leaked-days-before-reveal/
=================================================================================================================
https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-glasses/
Micro OLED for both the headset and the glasses supposedly:
bad rez on the lightweight AR glasses so they seem like they are mostly for HUD type things and simple graphics compared to the actual "dual 8k" 8k resolution headset.
==============================
https://uploadvr.com/ps5-vr-headset-hdr-oled-aaa/
===================================
Valve and Facebook are also working on next gen headsets. Valves is probably going to microOLED and they are also probably going to use varifocal optic lenses (thin clear Liquid crystal lenses stacked with polarizers that change your focal point). This would make VR more realistic compared to how our normal vision works, and could work better with foveated rendering, using lower resolution outside of what you are focused on. Facebook is prob also going to use Varifocal Lenses but idk if their headest will be microOLED (probably though gauging by what everyone else is doing and what optical/display tech companies are being tapped).
=====================================
So as you can see, OLED display tech isn't going away any time soon. Quite the opposite for the near future.
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elvn
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Just to update -- it turns out that HTC headset is not going to be the first of the new generation of sleeker microOLED screens (like the ones apple and valve are working on). The HTC Viveflow has an inferior 1600x1600 LCD display so will get outclassed once the better microOLED headsets come out.
elvn
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Went ahead and ordered the 77" C1 from best buy *without* the warranty after all.
I'm banking on the fact that LG reserves the top 25% of the brightness range for wear evening, has logo identification and dimming after 5 mins, pixel shifting. That and the fact that I can set up a screen saver on both the TV and my nvidia shield, and maybe energy saving/shutdown. I also know how to do the "turn off the screen" emitters trick but I can't count on everyone doing that or any of us not falling asleep on the couch w/o doing that. Still every time I do that it should save on some wear cumulatively.
Hopefully no other tv breaking issues outside of (avoiding) burn in happen for 4 - 5 yrs. So I went ahead and rolled the dice.
I could have received a $100 e-card from amazon and I could have until the end of jan 2022 to return (and price match) the amazon purchase.
Instead I went with best buy (no e-card currently) and return (and price match) until end of November, but that gets me an extension past the pre-BF and black friday deals. I just didn't like the prospect of having to box up a 77" tv and ship it. I'd rather be able to bring it to bestbuy in my truck if it came to it. That and I wouldn't risk the box showing up busted or speared by fork lift on a drop-off at my house. (If it showed up at bb like that it would be less problematic)
Might get lucky and price match it a little cheaper ($100 - $200 potentially) before the end of november too, will see. If that happens even better but I'm not counting on it necessarily.
I'm banking on the fact that LG reserves the top 25% of the brightness range for wear evening, has logo identification and dimming after 5 mins, pixel shifting. That and the fact that I can set up a screen saver on both the TV and my nvidia shield, and maybe energy saving/shutdown. I also know how to do the "turn off the screen" emitters trick but I can't count on everyone doing that or any of us not falling asleep on the couch w/o doing that. Still every time I do that it should save on some wear cumulatively.
Hopefully no other tv breaking issues outside of (avoiding) burn in happen for 4 - 5 yrs. So I went ahead and rolled the dice.
I could have received a $100 e-card from amazon and I could have until the end of jan 2022 to return (and price match) the amazon purchase.
Instead I went with best buy (no e-card currently) and return (and price match) until end of November, but that gets me an extension past the pre-BF and black friday deals. I just didn't like the prospect of having to box up a 77" tv and ship it. I'd rather be able to bring it to bestbuy in my truck if it came to it. That and I wouldn't risk the box showing up busted or speared by fork lift on a drop-off at my house. (If it showed up at bb like that it would be less problematic)
Might get lucky and price match it a little cheaper ($100 - $200 potentially) before the end of november too, will see. If that happens even better but I'm not counting on it necessarily.
t1337duder
Gawd
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I wouldn't worry about it. Simple precautions such as that ones you listed prevent noticeable burn-in from accumulating from even after years of use. My C7 had none after years of use. Sold it on Craigslist right before getting my 77CX. People just need to learn to be careful and be respectful of their displays. Plasma TVs were a lot worse in this regard and IR/burn-in was manageable with those, too. A burned-in OLED says more about the owner than the technology, at this point.
Thanks for that heads up. Will pick one up for bedroom TV. It's useless in my use case as a monitor. But perfect for watching movies and media.
elvn
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That's the main concern I had though before deciding on it:
Unlike the 48cx at my pc - "people" is not just me when it's a big living room tv with different viewers and at a couch where you can walk away a lot some days and get distracted not coming back (diverting to bedroom for the night for example), or can fall asleep on the couch, etc. A lot of people don't have screen ettiquette and don't feel like they should have to on a tv - whether we agree with that position or not ourselves.
I'll enable as many screen savers and energy savers to standby etc. as I can on the tv and nvidia shield though, along with the built in protections in the newer lines of LG OLED tvs. It seems like a fair bet. Thanks for the feedback on your TV's lifespans.
$1099 ?!?
Ok, seriously now. Anyone reading this thread who even THINKS that they may want to buy a truly incredible monitor someday... make it now. At that price, it absolutely is obliterating whatever other gaming display you've ever considered buying.
The Gsync... just works. The HDR... just works. The 120hz... just works. And they all work together at the same time with no drama. And it's OLED. You really aren't going to do any better in the next couple of years. Or ever maybe.
What a deal.
Even more so considering how many other things are overpriced and in short supply.
Ok, seriously now. Anyone reading this thread who even THINKS that they may want to buy a truly incredible monitor someday... make it now. At that price, it absolutely is obliterating whatever other gaming display you've ever considered buying.
The Gsync... just works. The HDR... just works. The 120hz... just works. And they all work together at the same time with no drama. And it's OLED. You really aren't going to do any better in the next couple of years. Or ever maybe.
What a deal.
Even more so considering how many other things are overpriced and in short supply.
Got to agree. It all just works (now). No strings attached. Not only did LG fix basically every bug this display shipped with, they keep adding features, too!
This is one of the best displays you can buy. Doesn't matter if it's for PC, console gaming, watching TV, Smart TV... the list goes on. LG has shown that they mean business when it comes to OLED displays.
N4CR
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I see microLED doing better than vastly better than OLED especially on VR headsets where the size is manageable. Sure you can print OLED but the heatsinking, density, brightness and speed of the microLED (already at 1KHz/1000fps) will stomp OLED.
And I am damn sad I'm not in USA right now. I have the $ sitting there to buy it and I doubt there will be a better price in the next year.....
And I am damn sad I'm not in USA right now. I have the $ sitting there to buy it and I doubt there will be a better price in the next year.....
This 48” Holiday sales price bodes well for next years 42”. I think $899 is in the realm of possibility next holiday season.
At that price point and size I really can’t see any excuse to buy any comparable LCD especially all of these 800:1 contrast ratio ultrawides that cost $1200-1800.
At that price point and size I really can’t see any excuse to buy any comparable LCD especially all of these 800:1 contrast ratio ultrawides that cost $1200-1800.
MistaSparkul
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Wow!
Did you know, that all current OLED's can do 2000Hz (pixel response time under 0.5ms)?
However, there is signalling interface that do support data bandwidth required to deliver that kind of image update speeds @2160p or even 1080p (not even DP2.1).
And there are currently no TCONs / display processors that do support that kind of display update frequences (refresh is not a correct word, as it is related to refreshing CRT phosphors, and is no longer valid for LCD/OLED panels).
https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_cx_oled
And I will really heartily welcome any 2160p or better MicroLED display that is smaller than 100", costs under 50K$/k€ and is available during the current decade.
elvn
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The OLED TVs, even with the TV overhead, have a response time minimum of 1ms ( => 1000hz..and I think up to 2.5ms in testing). So OLED are already capable of 1ms and perhaps even less in the panel itself. In fact this is somewhat a problem because it is so fast that it exacerbates stuttering that is otherwise blended out by slower LCD tech.
Also.. (As I just linked in this thread recently)...
The VR headsets being devoloped by the big players (valve, facebook, apple) now are going to be micro OLED, not microLED.
They are also going to be using varifocal lenses which are very thin clear layers of LED lenses stacked and polarized. These can be switched between on the fly to change the focal point in order to make VR look more like how our real eyesight works. e.g. you hold your finger up in front of your face and focus on it, the background goes out of focus. So they can do that mechanically using the lenses instead of having the headset/app render to infinity and instead of having to devote rendering to simulate the ways our eyes work.
OLED is not going away any time soon.. especially in VR.
https://hardforum.com/threads/leak-rumor-valve-deckard-wireless-vr-ar.2014317/
- 2K/4K per eye, Micro OLED panels. May be rotated to allow wider FOV
- Varifocal lenses confirmed, apparently with support for an OpenXR option that communicates depth for objects
- New custom Qualcomm SoC in "frunk" for standalone capabilities
- Swappable headstrap, modular to alternate between WiGig or higher end computing unit
- AR capabilities
- May announce/release soon - manufacturing facilities for lenses and display are ready
- Evidence in software that it will interop with Steam Deck for split rendering
- There's also mention of a "tablet"
- It could be used with Valve's alleged future console
- Updated controllers with same joysticks as Steam Deck, no more drifting
- Updated sensors for finger tracking
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/pzfn79/updated_info_dump_on_the_valve_deckard/
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elvn
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I understand how people want a smaller screen because a lot of people don't have the space or just don't want to dedicate the space for farther viewing distance - but a 42" 4k screen still would be best at a pretty decent distance compared to a 27" to 32" 4k screen.
I typically sit 38" to 48" away from the 48"CX. If I find I'm not looking at my HUD enough to my detriment in some games I'll kick back to near 48"
When you sit around the same distance away as the monitor's diagonal measurement you are making a more or less equilateral triangle out of your viewing angle and the screen width. Any closer it's a squashed fat triangle (or pyramid) with a more extreme angle to view the corners which can affect how easily you can view your HUD elements.
.....................................
So as a rule of thumb on a 4k screen, as you approach sitting as far away from the screen as the diagonal screen measurement you surpass 80PPD and won't see the overall aggressive/aggravated pixel structure anymore (without AA applied).
That would still be 41"+ viewing distance on a 42" screen to exceed 80PPD.
While you wouldn't see the aggressive individual pixel structure overall generally anymore since it's beyond 20/15, it would still "require" or be recommended to have some modest AA b/c you'd still notice some pixel fringe in medium and high contrasted areas.
80PPD+ 42" 4k
----
In order to exceed 60PPD on a 42" 4k screen requires sitting over 29" viewing distance to your eyeballs. That would "require" or be recommended to have more aggressive AA and good text sub sampling since it still shows a more aggressive/aggravated pixel structure~general pixelization.
60PPD+ 42" 4k
----------------------------------
8k screens will have twice the pixel density so the minimum distances would be halved in all cases vs 4k. However that pyramid to the periphery still applies in regard to your viewing angle degrees regardless of the PPD so I still wouldn't want to sit way too close.
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elvn
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Linus also said in his video, regarding his LG 77" G10:
(wendell uses it as a desktop monitor without dark themes, has static windows in quads/zones and a static taskbar on his screen 8 - 10 hr a day at 60 brightness or more and has been for a few years).
Linus goes on to say:
and finishes with
<like simply use them as a media and gaming stage/theater and NOT using them as a static desktop/static app screen AT ALL.. >
( = the safest method at least in my opinion, though you technically can probably get away with it with extra precautions as some of the forum users do).
Linus and Wendell..
..no less using their screens with white app backgrounds and not using dark themes globally
..not locking/hiding taskbars away or even making them transparent
...not switching to using full frame/full-screen material.. leaving window frames in quads all day long and at high 60-80 brightness (Linus admitted to using 80 brightness on static desktop/apps with white backgrounds and obviously had a constant 4 window quad setup static on screen all of the time, Wendell claims "around 60" but looks around sheepishly)
.. some of them were even disabling some of the burn in mitigation tools <I know some forum members swear by this but it does not provide a fair measure of lifespan vs burn in as it's technically voiding the warranty and abusing the screen>
Meanwhile both wendell and linus leave a giant searing bright white static background document on half of the screen throughout the rest of the video while they aren't even using it.
I agree - they both abused the shit out of their screens.
When it comes down to it - these TVs are made to watch movies/videos/media and play games (including pc games) on. Not for use as static desktop app screens or static billboards. If you use them for that you are doing so at your own risk, and they upped that risk a lot with their lack of screen etiquette.
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i wonder where the dolby vision firmware update is... i have the korea download and am not really afraid to put it on, i did others last year... but since we are getting down to the last few updates I'm trying to let things update properly to avoid warranty issues later.
MistaSparkul
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Linus also said in his video, regarding his LG 77" G10:
(wendell uses it as a desktop monitor without dark themes, has static windows in quads/zones and a static taskbar on his screen 8 - 10 hr a day at 60 brightness or more and has been for a few years).
Linus goes on to say:
and finishes with
<like simply use them as a media and gaming stage/theater and NOT using them as a static desktop/static app screen AT ALL.. >
( = the safest method at least in my opinion, though you technically can probably get away with it with extra precautions as some of the forum users do).
Linus and Wendell..
..no less using their screens with white app backgrounds and not using dark themes globally
..not locking/hiding taskbars away or even making them transparent
...not switching to using full frame/full-screen material.. leaving window frames in quads all day long and at high 60-80 brightness (Linus admitted to using 80 brightness on static desktop/apps with white backgrounds and obviously had a constant 4 window quad setup static on screen all of the time, Wendell claims "around 60" but looks around sheepishly)
.. some of them were even disabling some of the burn in mitigation tools <I know some forum members swear by this but it does not provide a fair measure of lifespan vs burn in as it's technically voiding the warranty and abusing the screen>
Meanwhile both wendell and linus leave a giant searing bright white static background document on half of the screen throughout the rest of the video while they aren't even using it.
I agree - they both abused the shit out of their screens.
When it comes down to it - these TVs are made to watch movies/videos/media and play games (including pc games) on. Not for use as static desktop app screens or static billboards. If you use them for that you are doing so at your own risk, and they upped that risk a lot with their lack of screen etiquette.
I have done absolutely zero TLC on my CX besides lowering the brightness down to 100 nits for desktop use and I have no burn after just under 1.5 years so far. First thing I did when I got the screen was use the service remote to disable ASBL and have been using it like a normal monitor with static elements and all without a care for this entire time. I really think that if you just use reasonable OLED light setting then you should be fine for years. Of course I don't expect my screen to last 10 years or anything but I'm going to upgrade to a 42" probably in 2023 or 2024 anyways so as long as I can get 3-4 years out of my current CX then I am more than happy and it seems like just running a low OLED light value will get me there no problem.
elvn
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Ymmv doing that and you are voiding the warranty disabling some of the burn in protections but yeah I get it - it's your tv you could do whatever you want with it.
I will say linus's graphic in the transition between parts of his video was pretty relevant. It was several candles burning down.
It's like that or a block of ice with an array of micro torches/flame burner holes. LG reserves the top 25% of the brightness range (beyond that which is in the regular HDR brightness peaks) for the wear-evening routine. It will level that block of ice down to even every so often. Once you run out of that buffer the TV will not be able to do any more "burn down" to make it even so you will be getting "burn in" retention/ghosting permanently (or alternately, if it continued to "burn down" with wear-evening, you would be cutting down your regular peak brightness).
I was under the imperssion that it would just stop doing the wear evening once it exhausted that top 25% reserved brightness but I'm not sure. I'll have to look that up. If it continued to "burn down" and even the emitters, people might think they are still good b/c they are still not seeing "burn-in" ghosting but if it were that scenario they'd actually be losing peak brightness and shrinking their HDR color volume over time. If you were only using SDR you probably wouldn't notice that for a much longer time. SDR ~ 250nit.. peak HDR on the C1 is 767 nit in small % of screen.
Again I thought it would just stop doing the wear evening after the reserve 25% above the normal set function but I haven't verified that.
Using the burn in avoidance features will reduce the amount of heat and/or duration of high heat those burners are applying to the block of ice so will extend how long before that top 25% buffer will be exhausted by a lot.
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MistaSparkul
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I don't expect the display to last as long as it can with the way I'm using it but I just wanted to mention it to let people know that you can pretty much use it like a normal monitor and it won't burn in within a few months like Linus, IF you tone down the OLED light. We'll see how long my CX actually lasts being used this way, but I would say it's good to have many different use cases to get an idea of the life expectancy between people who do maximum TLC, zero TLC like Linus, and somewhere in between like me.
Actually elvn Rtings did not manage to reduce peak brightness on their units even the ones that suffered burn-in. But that was on older models, maybe they let you eat away at peak brightness to increase lifespan on recent sets. I'd prefer that personally as I'm mostly consuming SDR content anyway and value uniformity over highlights anyway. Ideally, let the user decide? IDK.
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