equinox654
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2005
- Messages
- 859
I have around 3' from my eyes to the panel.I have zero problems at my viewing distance because it's beyond 60PPD.
....
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
I have around 3' from my eyes to the panel.I have zero problems at my viewing distance because it's beyond 60PPD.
....
That’s legit.Gotta hand it to LG. From the time I submitted a warranty repair (was out of warranty too) to the time my panel was replaced took literally 4 business days.
Guy came out and swapped panels in 15 minutes.
Yea I usually have the 3840x1600 on RPGs like cyberpunk and horizon zero dawn, and the extra real-estate does help. I think 1080p would be too wide and distorted.Running at 32:9 becomes more an issue of not having curvature on the screen so it's awkward to use. Though the 3840x1080 resolution in that situation does not help either. I think the CX works best as an ultrawide using 3840x1600.
Maybe 3840x1200 would be worth a try as well? I tried one of the 43" Samsungs with that res and thought it worked much better than the 49" 3840x1080 model.
A video from a youtuber about OLED issues:
I do not agree with the conclusion that OLED displays need to be replaced often. I haven't replaced my C7 since 2017 and it gets heavy use almost daily. Except for several months of summer breaks.
I did replaced the panel once, but it was most likely due to the excessive use of the Pixel Refresher procedure from my part. Need I say there was no permanent burn-in for all these years?
The only precaution I follow - no desktop icons and all black backgound. I don't run screensavers and the taskbar is up.
Yeah, your situation is a bit unique when presented in this thread considering the generational panel improvements and increased knowledge about OLED best practices (when used as a monitor, anyway).B6 owner here, I've definitely run into burn in, the worst of it was done early back when I was still blasting the backlight. In my case, it was the Taskbar that did me in. But after years of very heavy use (including two years plus WFH) I do so other areas starting to degrade (specifically, I can see areas where the panel simply can't drive the pixels as bright, which corresponds to where I put my Windows while I'm WFH). Granted, the B6 was before most of the anti-burn in tech went into the sets, and blasting the OLED backlight didn't help. But I would say that if you use OLED heavily you *will* likely need one panel replacement over the sets lifetime, which isn't ideal. And that's something people just aren't used to.
Yeah, your situation is a bit unique when presented in this thread considering the generational panel improvements and increased knowledge about OLED best practices (when used as a monitor, anyway).
1 - Your B6 is what, 5+ years old at this point? As you've said, LG has improved their panel tech to make newer ones less susceptible to burn-in.
2 - You admittedly blasted the backlight, possibly combined with #3 below
3 - As far as your WFH and window placement, did you tend to keep your windows in the same position on screen? I try to vary this, myself.
At the end of the day, as I've stated before, I'd rather replace my screen every 5 years than deal with LCD shortcomings. But, here's the thing...I don't think that will be necessary. There are several factors to take into account here. If you had taken the appropriate precautions with your B6, you might not have experienced any burn-in. Or, if you had a newer improved panel and used it the same way you did then, you might not have had burn-in. My point is that if you have a newer panel -and- you don't blast the backlight -and- you make an effort to reduce static content, these should last years without noticeable image degradation. I used my B7 for 2.5 years (with 1.5 years of that being WFH) and now my CX is going on 1.5 years old of daily WFH 10+ hour a day use and it is as beautiful and uniform as ever if I throw up a light grey full screen fill in MS Paint.
I didn't opt for an extended warranty, but the people who did should sleep soundly knowing that should something happen within several years of owning the thing, they'll be covered. I'm personally not worried about it after my B7 ownership experience. If I get 5 years of 8-10 hour per day monitor use out of the CX, I'll just replace it with whatever's better then. Every display is a compromise and these OLEDs have had the least amount of drawbacks out of any monitor I've used in 25 years of PC gaming so I'll do my best to take care of them and make them last until a superior display tech is mainstream.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing. Barring a 55" MicroLED, I'm going OLED again. But it *is* something you need to be honest about when recommending people get OLEDs. And I'm *always* cautious to remind people my B6 was before a lot of the anti-burn in tech started to make its way into the panels.Yeah, your situation is a bit unique when presented in this thread considering the generational panel improvements and increased knowledge about OLED best practices (when used as a monitor, anyway).
1 - Your B6 is what, 5+ years old at this point? As you've said, LG has improved their panel tech to make newer ones less susceptible to burn-in.
2 - You admittedly blasted the backlight, possibly combined with #3 below
3 - As far as your WFH and window placement, did you tend to keep your windows in the same position on screen? I try to vary this, myself.
At the end of the day, as I've stated before, I'd rather replace my screen every 5 years than deal with LCD shortcomings. But, here's the thing...I don't think that will be necessary. There are several factors to take into account here. If you had taken the appropriate precautions with your B6, you might not have experienced any burn-in. Or, if you had a newer improved panel and used it the same way you did then, you might not have had burn-in. My point is that if you have a newer panel -and- you don't blast the backlight -and- you make an effort to reduce static content, these should last years without noticeable image degradation. I used my B7 for 2.5 years (with 1.5 years of that being WFH) and now my CX is going on 1.5 years old of daily WFH 10+ hour a day use and it is as beautiful and uniform as ever if I throw up a light grey full screen fill in MS Paint.
I didn't opt for an extended warranty, but the people who did should sleep soundly knowing that should something happen within several years of owning the thing, they'll be covered. I'm personally not worried about it after my B7 ownership experience. If I get 5 years of 8-10 hour per day monitor use out of the CX, I'll just replace it with whatever's better then. Every display is a compromise and these OLEDs have had the least amount of drawbacks out of any monitor I've used in 25 years of PC gaming so I'll do my best to take care of them and make them last until a superior display tech is mainstream.
It's an interim tech for sure hopefully replaced by micro-LED. How long it will take for us to get monitors using that tech is unknown but I expect initially micro-LED will be limited to large TVs while mini-LEDs and OLEDs are the defacto tech for monitors.Yep, OLED is amazing and will serve a lot of people well but it is definitely not for everyone in its current iteration. I don't know how much the tech can be refined but I guess it will never be ideal for monitor use in bright rooms for example.
HDR will also gain more and more traction and super bright highlights will most likely remain challenging. It doesn't matter to me right now but once high quality HDR is everywhere and LCDs have a gazillion zones it will be a different story and I think that future is not very far off. OLED will still have some strengths even then but it may not be as much of a winner as it is now.
Yep, OLED is amazing and will serve a lot of people well but it is definitely not for everyone in its current iteration. I don't know how much the tech can be refined but I guess it will never be ideal for monitor use in bright rooms for example.
HDR will also gain more and more traction and super bright highlights will most likely remain challenging. It doesn't matter to me right now but once high quality HDR is everywhere and LCDs have a gazillion zones it will be a different story and I think that future is not very far off. OLED will still have some strengths even then but it may not be as much of a winner as it is now.
Apple is rumored to be working on at least two AR projects that include an augmented reality headset set to be released in right around 2022 followed by a sleeker pair of augmented reality glasses coming at a later date. Many rumors have focused solely on the glasses, however, leading to some confusion about Apple's plans, but it appears the headset will be the first product launched.
Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo believes Apple's "mixed reality" headset will come out in the second quarter of 2022, with the Apple Glasses to follow in 2025, though other sources have said the glasses will come in 2023. The headset is AR/VR, aka mixed reality, while Apple's Glasses are augmented reality.
It's said to feature two high-resolution 8K displays and eye-detecting cameras that will let users "read small type" and "see other people standing in front of and behind virtual objects." The headset will be able to map surfaces, edges, and dimensions of rooms with "greater accuracy than existing devices on the market." It will have a more advanced display and a chip that's even faster than the M1 processor in 2020 Macs.
The Elec claims that the VR headset will feature a high-resolution micro OLED display with up to 3,000 pixels per inch. A micro OLED display was previously rumored for the smart glasses, but not the VR headset.
Apple is allegedly planning to use "cutting edge" OLED microdisplays supplied by Sony for its rumored augmented reality glasses. Sony's OLED microdisplays feature an ultra-fast response rate, ultra-high contrast, a wide color gamut, high luminance, low reflectance, and integrated drivers for a thin and light design. The glasses are said to feature an 0.5-inch display with a 1280x960 resolution.
includes the resolution of 4000×2040 pixels (2000×2040 per eye) and eye-tracking support for foveated rendering.
Other details from PSVR Without Parole’s video claim the device, codenamed NGVR (next-generation VR), uses an HDR OLED display and has a field of view (FOV) of 110 degrees, 10 more degrees than the original PSVR. Alongside foveated rendering, the new headset could also use a technique called flexible scaling resolution to further increase the performance of PSVR titles.
I wouldn't worry about it. Simple precautions such as that ones you listed prevent noticeable burn-in from accumulating from even after years of use. My C7 had none after years of use. Sold it on Craigslist right before getting my 77CX. People just need to learn to be careful and be respectful of their displays. Plasma TVs were a lot worse in this regard and IR/burn-in was manageable with those, too. A burned-in OLED says more about the owner than the technology, at this point.Went ahead and ordered the 77" C1 from best buy *without* the warranty after all.
I'm banking on the fact that LG reserves the top 25% of the brightness range for wear evening, has logo identification and dimming after 5 mins, pixel shifting. That and the fact that I can set up a screen saver on both the TV and my nvidia shield, and maybe energy saving/shutdown. I also know how to do the "turn off the screen" emitters trick but I can't count on everyone doing that or any of us not falling asleep on the couch w/o doing that. Still every time I do that it should save on some wear cumulatively.
Thanks for that heads up. Will pick one up for bedroom TV. It's useless in my use case as a monitor. But perfect for watching movies and media.For anyone in the US, Costco will have the 48" C1 for $1099 starting October 27th. By far the lowest price it's ever been. Crazy that Asus 32" 144hz IPS monitor with a handful of edge lit zones costs more.
View attachment 403890
People just need to learn to be careful and be respectful of their displays.
Got to agree. It all just works (now). No strings attached. Not only did LG fix basically every bug this display shipped with, they keep adding features, too!$1099 ?!?
Ok, seriously now. Anyone reading this thread who even THINKS that they may want to buy a truly incredible monitor someday... make it now. At that price, it absolutely is obliterating whatever other gaming display you've ever considered buying.
The Gsync... just works. The HDR... just works. The 120hz... just works. And they all work together at the same time with no drama. And it's OLED. You really aren't going to do any better in the next couple of years. Or ever maybe.
What a deal.
Even more so considering how many other things are overpriced and in short supply.
This 48” Holiday sales price bodes well for next years 42”. I think $899 is in the realm of possibility next holiday season.
At that price point and size I really can’t see any excuse to buy any comparable LCD especially all of these 800:1 contrast ratio ultrawides that cost $1200-1800.
Wow!I see microLED doing better than vastly better than OLED especially on VR headsets where the size is manageable. Sure you can print OLED but the heatsinking, density, brightness and speed of the microLED (already at 1KHz/1000fps) will stomp OLED.
And I am damn sad I'm not in USA right now. I have the $ sitting there to buy it and I doubt there will be a better price in the next year.....
I see microLED doing better than vastly better than OLED especially on VR headsets where the size is manageable. Sure you can print OLED but the heatsinking, density, brightness and speed of the microLED (already at 1KHz/1000fps) will stomp OLED.
And I am damn sad I'm not in USA right now. I have the $ sitting there to buy it and I doubt there will be a better price in the next year.....
This 48” Holiday sales price bodes well for next years 42”. I think $899 is in the realm of possibility next holiday season.
At that price point and size I really can’t see any excuse to buy any comparable LCD especially all of these 800:1 contrast ratio ultrawides that cost $1200-1800.
==================================
For a 42" 4k the viewing distances are:
--- ~ 29" or less viewing distance = lower than 60 PPD, below 20/20 vision; most everyone can see individual pixels. You likely need strong anti-aliasing to hide artifacts.
= jumbo pixels to your eyes, aliased graphics, bad text fringing
--- Over 29" viewing distance = above the 20/20 vision threshold of 60 ppd, but below the average vision of ~20/15. You likely need moderate anti-aliasing.
--- ~ 41" viewing distance = 80 PPD which is is moderate, slightly above the average visual acuity; few can see individual pixels. Anti-aliasing only necessary in medium- and high-contrast areas.
==================================
48" 4k at 33" or less viewing distance:
59.3 ppd is below 20/20 vision; most everyone can see individual pixels. You likely need strong anti-aliasing to hide artifacts.
= jumbo pixels to your eyes, bad text fringing
-------------------------------
48" 4k at 33.5" viewing distance:
60 ppd is above the 20/20 vision threshold of 60 ppd, but below the average vision of ~20/15. You likely need moderate anti-aliasing.
= moderate aliasing that can be more or less compensated for with AA (usually at the cost of some frame rate loss) and sub-sampling on text
-----------------------------------
48" 4k at 47"+ viewing distance:
Anti-aliasing is only necessary in medium- and high-contrast areas.
----------------------------------
==============================
Running in SDR at OLED brightness of 60-80 10 hours per day as a desktop monitor will DEFINITELY cause this screen to degrade prematurely. No doubt about it. However, the majority of users on this forum take care of their screens and run OLED brightness around 0-30 in SDR. That is the mostly agreed upon "safe zone" for these displays.
Seriously, Linus and Wendel were absolutely abusing their screens.
For reference, I have 7440 hours on my CX. Zero burn-in.
(wendell uses it as a desktop monitor without dark themes, has static windows in quads/zones and a static taskbar on his screen 8 - 10 hr a day at 60 brightness or more and has been for a few years)."The 77 inch G10 in my living room has been there almost as long as wendell has been driving his C10"
and finishes with"and in spite of it being used for not just movies, but also for games which are notorious for burning-in static elements like spedometer, life bars -you get the point - it shows no signs of burn-in whatsoever.. and you'll find plenty of similar testimonials from people online. So it's clear that OLEDs absolutely can live long, healthy lives doing what they do best - absolutely crushing other technologies with their image quality"
<like simply use them as a media and gaming stage/theater and NOT using them as a static desktop/static app screen AT ALL.. >"They just clearly require a level of TLC"
Linus also said in his video, regarding his LG 77" G10:
(wendell uses it as a desktop monitor without dark themes, has static windows in quads/zones and a static taskbar on his screen 8 - 10 hr a day at 60 brightness or more and has been for a few years).
Linus goes on to say:
and finishes with
<like simply use them as a media and gaming stage/theater and NOT using them as a static desktop/static app screen AT ALL.. >
( = the safest method at least in my opinion, though you technically can probably get away with it with extra precautions as some of the forum users do).
Linus and Wendell..
..no less using their screens with white app backgrounds and not using dark themes globally
..not locking/hiding taskbars away or even making them transparent
...not switching to using full frame/full-screen material.. leaving window frames in quads all day long and at high 60-80 brightness (Linus admitted to using 80 brightness on static desktop/apps with white backgrounds and obviously had a constant 4 window quad setup static on screen all of the time, Wendell claims "around 60" but looks around sheepishly)
.. some of them were even disabling some of the burn in mitigation tools <I know some forum members swear by this but it does not provide a fair measure of lifespan vs burn in as it's technically voiding the warranty and abusing the screen>
Meanwhile both wendell and linus leave a giant searing bright white static background document on half of the screen throughout the rest of the video while they aren't even using it.
I agree - they both abused the shit out of their screens.
When it comes down to it - these TVs are made to watch movies/videos/media and play games (including pc games) on. Not for use as static desktop app screens or static billboards. If you use them for that you are doing so at your own risk, and they upped that risk a lot with their lack of screen etiquette.
I have done absolutely zero TLC on my CX besides lowering the brightness down to 100 nits for desktop use and I have no burn after just under 1.5 years so far. First thing I did when I got the screen was use the service remote to disable ASBL and have been using it like a normal monitor with static elements and all without a care for this entire time. I really think that if you just use reasonable OLED light setting then you should be fine for years. Of course I don't expect my screen to last 10 years or anything but I'm going to upgrade to a 42" probably in 2023 or 2024 anyways so as long as I can get 3-4 years out of my current CX then I am more than happy and it seems like just running a low OLED light value will get me there no problem.
Ymmv doing that and you are voiding the warranty disabling some of the burn in protections but yeah I get it - it's your tv you could do whatever you want with it.
I will say linus's graphic in the transition between parts of his video was pretty relevant. It was several candles burning down.
It's like that or a block of ice with an array of micro torches/flame burner holes. LG reserves the top 25% of the brightness range (beyond that which is in the regular HDR brightness peaks) for the wear-evening routine. It will level that block of ice down to even every so often. Once you run out of that buffer the TV will not be able to do any more "burn down" to make it even so you will be getting "burn in" retention/ghosting permanently (or alternately, if it continued to "burn down" with wear-evening, you would be cutting down your regular peak brightness).
I was under the imperssion that it would just stop doing the wear evening once it exhausted that top 25% reserved brightness but I'm not sure. I'll have to look that up. If it continued to "burn down" and even the emitters, people might think they are still good b/c they are still not seeing "burn-in" ghosting but if it were that scenario they'd actually be losing peak brightness and shrinking their HDR color volume over time. If you were only using SDR you probably wouldn't notice that for a much longer time. SDR ~ 250nit.. peak HDR on the C1 is 767 nit in small % of screen.
Again I thought it would just stop doing the wear evening after the reserve 25% above the normal set function but I haven't verified that.
Using the burn in avoidance features will reduce the amount of heat and/or duration of high heat those burners are applying to the block of ice so will extend how long before that top 25% buffer will be exhausted by a lot.