Klipsch Reference Premiere any good?

Dutt1113

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I'm a noobie when it comes to decent home theater equipment outside the $500 complete home theater in a box including a receiver. I know you can get compact $1000 set of speakers alone, no receiver, like Klipsch Reference Cinema and Definitive Tech ProCinema 6d and I'm sure with a decent $600-700 would sound pretty good. Are these systems any good BTW? I'd like to put together a decent 5.1.2 system with decent tower speakers using atmos either built into the towers or separate atmos module if that's better. I was thinking about the Klipsch Reference Premiere line.

I have couch against the back wall with window there so no speakers can be behind the couch at all. Room is rectangle with standard height ceiling. I was thinking 2x RP-8000f with RP-600c up front with r-12sw sub, then 2x RP-600m speakers as rears pointing 90 degress on each side. Then 2x rp-500sa atmos speakers sitting on the towers. I priced out the speakers on Amazon for about $2800. I was thinking the Onkyo TX-NR6100 looked pretty good.
 

StaticShoes

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Over at AVSforum the Klispsch Reference Cinema and Def Tech 6D tend to cause a lot of head shaking and face palming. My sample size for speakers is much smaller than those guys but I would tend to agree those "home theatre in a box" deals could see the money spent to better effect on something else. Klipsch speakers are decent I have one setup with a pair of RF42 II and a K100sw and a Sony receiver. For $2800 I can't help thinking you could potentially go with Emotiva or SVS, there are so many great brands available these days.
 

sharknice

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Elac Debut 2.0 are a really good deal for the money, around the same price you're looking at. That's what I ended up going with after a bunch of research. They were a top recomendation by a lot of people.
I paired them with a yamaha receiver because I have other yamaha receivers so I can link them together to mirror the sound and whatnot. I didn't do a lot of research into the best receiver for the money.
 

toast0

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I was going to recommend Elac Debut 2.0 as well. I've got their 6.5 floor speakers in my living room and have no complaints. If you're patient, you can catch them on sale for a good discount (which is true of your Klipsch selection too). If you buy at today's amazon prices, you'll save enough money on the regular speakers that you can get an SVS sub and still pay less than the $2800 you got with Klipsch. If you want to save more money, you probably don't need a center (I've never had furniture which can support one) and you can skip Atmos; or get the rest now, and wait for a sale to pickup those. Depending on your room, you could also wait on the sub. Floor speakers should give you some, but not a lot, of low end.
 

sharknice

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For subwoofers I don't think Elac is as good of a deal as it is for the speakers, you might want to go with something else for that. You would actually be fine without a sub if you go with the floorstanding speakers which have pretty good bass already.
But I bought a Dayton Audio SUB-1500 for $160 which was a really good deal for the performance, although they're more expensive now so I'm not sure it's still worth it. They're also huge, you can get the same performance from much smaller subs, but they're also much more expensive. It really depends how much space you have, my sub doubles as an end table becuase it's so big.
 

owcraftsman

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The Reference Premier Line at it price point is audiophile nirvana. A departure from the rock n roll heritage of Klipsch. I have the RP-6000F tower pair and the RP-600C as the LCR of my Home Theater and couldn't be happier. I auditioned them for 45 days buying factory direct with free returns in that time period. I ended up loving them enough to keep. Not only great for hometheater but 2 channel direct is awesome as well. I was persuaded to do so by this review and thankful for it.
 

applegrcoug

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I am a Klipsch owner as well, but they are mostly old products...thankfully speakers don't go obsolete like computers. My speakers are from the late 90s and still work quite well.

But anyway, I have KSF-10.5 fronts and a KSF-C5 center. I also had a pair of KSB 1.1s and a pair of KSF-S5s for surrounds and rounded out with a 12in Energy sub for a 7.1 system. Then my Yamaha receiver died. Crap...now what. Well, upgrade of course.

I got four in ceiling speakers; emphasys IC 6.7. I think they were $165 for a pair...nothing too fancy. Then I chased the wires to them in the ceiling. That sucked. Then for the surrounds, I ditched the KSF-S5s. They have a wide dispersion pattern that is a no-no with atmos. Instead, I got a pair of Klipsch RP-240D on wall speakers. Ideally, I would have used more KSBs, but for optimal placement, they needed to placed in a walk zone, so on walls it was. I figured the 240D was going to be about as close of a timbre match as possible and it was pretty close. So now the system is a 7.2.4 system.

Long story I know...BUT here is the meat....

Those RP-240Ds were like $260 back in 2018; they are closer to $420 now. They don't put out a lot of sound pressure. They work for me, but I would not want them for mains...especially in a large room. I have a pair of old KSB 2.1s and they destroy the newer, more expensive speakers. I actually took the old KSB 2.1s and got the matching center off of ebay for like $50 and made a mount/stand to use under a tv in a large room and they work quite well.

I learned a lot reading on avsforums. What is the volume of your room? What do you ultimately want to do? Home theatre definitely has a learning curve, but it is pretty rewarding when you get it figured out.
 

Dutt1113

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How would the following setup do?

Onkyo TX-NR6100
ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2 Floorstanding
ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 Center Speaker
ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Bookshelf Speakers
SVS PB-1000 sub

$2937 on Amazon for all that.

the Dolby atmos modules are an extra $313

someone said I may be able to get away with no sub with the floor standing speakers. I really like bass for action movies though so not sure.

is that receiver good enough or can you recommend something better for the same price? I would need proper 4k/120hz pass thru for gaming fyi.
 
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applegrcoug

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How would the following setup do?

Onkyo TX-NR6100
ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2 Floorstanding Speaker
ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 Center Speaker, BlaELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 Center Speaker
ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Bookshelf Speakers
SVS PB-1000 sub

$2937 on Amazon for all that.

the Dolby atmos modules are an extra $313

someone said I may be able to get away with no sub with the floor standing speakers. I really like bass for action movies though so not sure.

is that receiver good enough or can you recommend something better for the same price? I would need proper 4k/120hz pass thru for gaming fyi.
I am confused...Are you trying to do a 6.1 system with two center channels?
 

Dutt1113

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I also priced out a Klipsch Reference Premiere system using renewed items except for the floor standing for similar price. Would this be better?

RP-8000F X2
RP-600C
RP-600M X2
RP-500SA X2
R-120SW
 

applegrcoug

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Klipsch makes nice stuff, but it isn't for everyone...there are those that just don't like the sound.

For your klipsch build out, I'd consider striking the sub and going with a different manufacturer. Subs are not timbre matched and klipsch subs aren't really their strong suit. I have an 8in one that I got essentially for free when I bought a Denon receiver back in 2018...it was some sort of promo from (I think) newegg. It is ok, but not awe inspiring. You might try reading some reviews off of crutchfield or something too...
 

Dutt1113

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So which speaker setup would be better? So the SVS PB-1000 sub will better at 300 watts vs the R-120SW at 400 watts?
 

Zepher

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What about the speakers themselves? The Elac Debut 2.0 vs SVS Prime Tower vs Klipsch Reference Premiere?
I have the lower Reference line of Klipsch and I do like them, but I haven't used many different speakers other than the JBL's, Polks, and Klipsch that I currently own.
I think any of those 3 lines that you are looking at would be good.
the Klipsch Subs on the other hand seem to have high failure rates of the plate amp, and even if it's in warranty, it seems to take awhile to get a replacement plate amp.

this is the setup I have in my bedroom,
IMG_0938.JPEG
 

owcraftsman

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How would the following setup do?

Onkyo TX-NR6100
ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2 Floorstanding
ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2 Center Speaker
ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Bookshelf Speakers
SVS PB-1000 sub

$2937 on Amazon for all that.

the Dolby atmos modules are an extra $313

someone said I may be able to get away with no sub with the floor standing speakers. I really like bass for action movies though so not sure.

is that receiver good enough or can you recommend something better for the same price? I would need proper 4k/120hz pass thru for gaming fyi.
Regarding the onkyo I would go with the RZ50 or the NR7100 over the NR6100 for one main reason DIRAC Live room correction. Something to look into is that Onkyo has gown through a lot of changes lately and some wonder if they will continue that much into the future. Other than that I prefer Denon and would recommend the AVR X3700H which similar price point and has Audyssey MultiEQ X32 room correction. I have one myself.
There are much better choices when it comes to ELAC such as Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2 or Elac Debut Referennce but you mentioned SVS sub, more on that to come. If towers are what you want SVS Prime Towers would be a great choice There tower surround system can be had for $1850 and has a much better center channel speaker than anything Elac offers. SVS Prime towers are great for music and movies another plus.
Dolby Atmos is hard to recommend for anyone but if you are to do it right avoid the bounce house speakers for anything else.

Now back to subs, for home theater one sub is essential to handle the LFE channel now matter how low your mains go and 2 subs are recommended for much more than just more bass but more how it affects room correction reducing standing wave nulls and voids across a wider seating area. I could dive deep, pun intended, in to this one but I'll pass it to you and google to do your research. Suffice to say the .1 in a 5.1 system is a sub which has it's own channel just like left center and right.
IMHO 2 subs is minimum recommended and as mentioned above SVS subs are hard to beat and Klipsch subs are the wrong way to go. Two SVS 1000 pro subs go for $1500 and come with an app to help you tune them. IMHO I recommended the ported version.
 

applegrcoug

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Regarding the onkyo I would go with the RZ50 or the NR7100 over the NR6100 for one main reason DIRAC Live room correction. Something to look into is that Onkyo has gown through a lot of changes lately and some wonder if they will continue that much into the future. Other than that I prefer Denon and would recommend the AVR X3700H which similar price point and has Audyssey MultiEQ X32 room correction. I have one myself.
There are much better choices when it comes to ELAC such as Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2 or Elac Debut Referennce but you mentioned SVS sub, more on that to come. If towers are what you want SVS Prime Towers would be a great choice There tower surround system can be had for $1850 and has a much better center channel speaker than anything Elac offers. SVS Prime towers are great for music and movies another plus.
Dolby Atmos is hard to recommend for anyone but if you are to do it right avoid the bounce house speakers for anything else.

Now back to subs, for home theater one sub is essential to handle the LFE channel now matter how low your mains go and 2 subs are recommended for much more than just more bass but more how it affects room correction reducing standing wave nulls and voids across a wider seating area. I could dive deep, pun intended, in to this one but I'll pass it to you and google to do your research. Suffice to say the .1 in a 5.1 system is a sub which has it's own channel just like left center and right.
IMHO 2 subs is minimum recommended and as mentioned above SVS subs are hard to beat and Klipsch subs are the wrong way to go. Two SVS 1000 pro subs go for $1500 and come with an app to help you tune them. IMHO I recommended the ported version.
Agreed on the denon room correction system being the better system. I have no experience with the bounce off the ceiling type, but I am skeptical on if it will give the desired effect. Likewise on only two atmos speakers. In my particular setup, had I not been able to use in ceiling speakers, I would have just kept it as a 7.1 system. I have it and it is cool, but I'm not sure how often it is utilized and truly noticed as part of the viewing experience.
 

owcraftsman

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Ya I have 5.2.4 setup the .4 are in ceiling speakers and the only way to get them sounding as awesome as you'd expect is to buy reviewed sound tracks that are know to be good from 4k UHD disc and play them on a high quality BluRay Player. Streaming Atmos tracks just doesn't cut it. Bouncing off the ceilings rarely if ever works well. Waste of money IMHO

In fairness there are Audiophile out there that swear DIRAC is way better than Audyssey. I have no experience with it but I know room correction is worth the price of admission for getting the most out of your equipment.
 

vegeta535

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Ya I have 5.2.4 setup the .4 are in ceiling speakers and the only way to get them sounding as awesome as you'd expect is to buy reviewed sound tracks that are know to be good from 4k UHD disc and play them on a high quality BluRay Player. Streaming Atmos tracks just doesn't cut it. Bouncing off the ceilings rarely if ever works well. Waste of money IMHO

In fairness there are Audiophile out there that swear DIRAC is way better than Audyssey. I have no experience with it but I know room correction is worth the price of admission for getting the most out of your equipment.
Yea the audio from streaming seems to be real garbage. I have 2 upwards firing Atmos speakers on my Front l/r tower speaker and feel they add nothing to the sound.
 

bananas1

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In general with speakers, avoid the big brand names if you're price sensitive. They're not the best in class, but they will work fine if you don't want to do any further research.
 

owcraftsman

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In general with speakers, avoid the big brand names if you're price sensitive. They're not the best in class, but they will work fine if you don't want to do any further research.
In general I agree with you, however the real bang for the buck lies in DIY. Just like PC's if you want the best of the best do it yourself. Anything mass produced from any brand is filled with cheap parts to keep cost down and compete with the rest. Anyone here who has ever bought a cookie cutter PC and taken it apart will know what I mean. The same is true with speakers costing 500 or 2k per pair. If you want to do some research check into DIY flat packs and speaker kits or even speaker upgrade kits if you've already bought a mass produced piece of crap. Check out GR Research
 

bananas1

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In general I agree with you, however the real bang for the buck lies in DIY. Just like PC's if you want the best of the best do it yourself. Anything mass produced from any brand is filled with cheap parts to keep cost down and compete with the rest. Anyone here who has ever bought a cookie cutter PC and taken it apart will know what I mean. The same is true with speakers costing 500 or 2k per pair. If you want to do some research check into DIY flat packs and speaker kits or even speaker upgrade kits if you've already bought a mass produced piece of crap. Check out GR Research
That's true, but keep in mind DIY speakers are quite a bit more work than PC parts which snap together like legos. You need to glue, solder, have a little bit of care for your craftsmanship. But the labor of the speakers gets taken out of the price so you do get better drivers for the price
 

drutman

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I'm a noobie when it comes to decent home theater equipment outside the $500 complete home theater in a box including a receiver. I know you can get compact $1000 set of speakers alone, no receiver, like Klipsch Reference Cinema and Definitive Tech ProCinema 6d and I'm sure with a decent $600-700 would sound pretty good. Are these systems any good BTW? I'd like to put together a decent 5.1.2 system with decent tower speakers using atmos either built into the towers or separate atmos module if that's better. I was thinking about the Klipsch Reference Premiere line.

I have couch against the back wall with window there so no speakers can be behind the couch at all. Room is rectangle with standard height ceiling. I was thinking 2x RP-8000f with RP-600c up front with r-12sw sub, then 2x RP-600m speakers as rears pointing 90 degress on each side. Then 2x rp-500sa atmos speakers sitting on the towers. I priced out the speakers on Amazon for about $2800. I was thinking the Onkyo TX-NR6100 looked pretty good.
Hope this helps I am a retired professional chemist with a specialty in analytical instrumentation and have a relative in the recording industry. I have knowledge of the consumer and pro side of audio. I have been noticing a lot of posts about speaker and equipment recommendations etc.



Also, some are wondering why their setup disappoints at high SPL or when a quality SVS sub is added. SVS subs are musically accurate, low distortion and have minimal enclosure resonances or added unwanted vibrational modes when properly placed. With some rock music, they can be ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings.

Do not get to caught up in the specs or being a "measurebator" audio is very subjective and personal. Must listen to speakers and base purchase on your personal taste, all are voiced differently so I do not recommend one brand of speaker over another, feelings can be hurt depending on how critique is taken. For example, I was at a high-end dealer (Early 1990) when they were showcasing a Wilson WAMM setup valued at 100K. The customer pulls out a personal recording of an oboe and a bassoon solo that he performed. After listening he says I am done with the Wilsons, why was he not satisfied? It wasn’t the 100K sticker shock, it was the fact that the system couldn’t resolve a A440 hertz note properly. To the untrained ear they sound identical but have a slight timbre difference that is noticeable to a professional Oboe/Bassoon performer. He also would dump a speaker if it couldn’t resolve a piano recording with the lid up or closed. FYI, he settled with the B&W Nautilus at 30K, I believe.



Cheap amp equals poor sound at elevated SPL. More power equals more volume assumption. Sound output is logarithmic not linear, double power not twice as loud.
For example I am a metal fan, the sound system for Iron Maiden is approx. 300 KW at 117 dB this SPL projects thousands of feet. If I do not add speakers or change drivers, doubling power to 600 KW it is only 3 dB louder which is not noticeably louder to most.
The quality of the watt is crucial, for example a discrete Darlington hand wired transistor amp can run over 10K whereas your MosFET receivers are sub $500 (99% of gear bought today). I have a Yamaha DSP receiver, 5 ch which is MoSFET. Infinity frontend, Paradigm center and Paradigm rears, SVS SB2000 Pro sub.

The power rating is irrelevant most sound systems play sound best when at under 5 watts continuous give or take. Efficiency rating will tell you how loud a speaker plays at 1 m away with one watt in. My Infinity speakers are rated at 98 dB/watt. To reproduce distortion free sound field at ref levels you need massive reserves of power for transients.
So my system at 1 meter out outputs the following SPL
1 watt is 98 dB SPL, OSHA states no more than 90 dB @ 8 hrs. at this threshold without hearing protection.
2 watts is 101 dB
4 watts 104 dB
8 watts 107 dB Need to spend ton of money to experience clean uncompressed music at this level or above.
16 watts 110 dB
32 watts 113 dB
64 watts 116 dB
128 watts 119 dB Permanent loss of hearing
Why is this important let say speaker brand X is rated at 80 dB/watt, what power is needed to match my setup?
1 watt 80 dB
2 watts 83 dB
4W 86
8W 89
16W 92
32W 95
64W 98
128W 101 dB
256W 104
512W 107 dB
1024W 110 to get this I need to invest in a Krell, Mark Levinson mono-block in excess of $5000. These high end amps are rated at 1 horsepower which is around 750 W at 8 ohms, 1500 W at 4 ohms continuous), No FET stages, discrete class A.
2048W 113 out
4096W 116 dB out

8192 W 119 dB out
 
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