Join us on November 3rd as we unveil AMD RDNA™ 3 to the world!

Armenius

Extremely [H]
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Stream starts at 16:00 EDT.


https://www.amd.com/en/graphics?sf261117200=1
https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1583098868329226240

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Apr 11, 2017
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Guess it depends on what you mean by "level". My 6800xt plays my library just as well as a 3080 would.
For AMD to be "on par" it has to be at least 5% faster in every game and no losses while being cheaper....
Kidding aside, the only part where the 6000 series struggles is if you turn on RT, and don't have FSR to help you. If you don't play anything with ray tracing, then you're good!
 

UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
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Not with ray tracing.
I have a total of two games that have Ray Tracing: Control, and CP2077. And I wouldn't say either make me feel like I want to pay nVidia for the pleasure.
Nice to have? Yes. But I think I have more hours in DoS2 than both games combined, and frankly an iPad with an A12 has the computing power to play it.

Not a shot at you, but I think a lot of folks got duped by nVidia last gen, because it made way more sense to buy an AMD card that costed 5/6th as much and was faster in all of the raster only titles rather than trying to chase down RT in a dozen games that no one is going to spend more than 60 hours in. Even if they're 100 hour games, still more people are going to play the newest CoD, or other team based competitive shooter for way more hours than any RT title. Overwatch, CS, or whatever. nVidia somehow came out on top literally with just RT bragging rights and nothing else.

This gen is different though, I find it very unlikely that AMD will be able to compete in raster or RT. But I'm hoping sincerely that I'm wrong.
 
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UnknownSouljer

Supreme [H]ardness
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Those are pretty much the only 2 titles I ever see given to show the merits of RT. Yes, even on this very forum.
In a lot of ways, CP2077 has become the new "Crysis". It's just no one says: "But can it run CP2077?" However that's essentially how it's taken, as if it is a remotely useful metric. And frankly it just isn't.
After 2 years it's pretty clearly been shown that the RED Engine wasn't even feature complete, it's buggy and then had RT slapped on top.

Control on the other hand is Unreal Engine, and is quite a bit more optimized. It's a lot closer to what RT gaming will be like in the future. Even for CDPR, as they move fully over to Unreal.
 

NightReaver

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In a lot of ways, CP2077 has become the new "Crysis". It's just no one says: "But can it run CP2077?" However that's essentially how it's taken, as if it is a remotely useful metric. And frankly it just isn't.
After 2 years it's pretty clearly been shown that the RED Engine wasn't even feature complete, it's buggy and then had RT slapped on top.

Control on the other hand is Unreal Engine, and is quite a bit more optimized. It's a lot closer to what RT gaming will be like in the future. Even for CDPR, as they move fully over to Unreal.
Yeah, Control seems to be the golden standard atm. We'll see if this generation of RT finally expands that to more games.
 

cjcox

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If they're 20% less than the 4090 and deliver a card that roughly fits 2 slots and doesn't make your lights dim... win! (but somehow, I doubt this)
 

NightReaver

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Metro: Exodus Enhanced Edition is the golden standard, since it is purely ray traced. Control is still hybrid rasterization+ray tracing.
Huh? Is it? Never knew. People only talk about the ray tracing, and talk about it a lot more than Metro.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Lies. Most big new games come with raytracing, and your 6800xt has no DLSS plus suffers at 4k. Nice try.
Any project done in Unreal or Unity right now is raytraced as default, other engines are making the same switch over raster is obviously sticking around for compatibility with the consoles and older PCs as the majority are still on GXT 1080ti and below.
 

LodeRunner

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
321
Control on the other hand is Unreal Engine, and is quite a bit more optimized. It's a lot closer to what RT gaming will be like in the future. Even for CDPR, as they move fully over to Unreal.
Control uses Northlight, Remedy's own engine. I can't find anything that says it was derived from Unreal Engine. Northlight does seem very well optimized.
 

LukeTbk

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kirbyrj

Fully [H]
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I don't think anything is going to surprise here.

1). Raster performance is going to be close to Nvidia depending on the game
2). RT performance is going to be less than Nvidia but better than last generation
3). The price is going to undercut Nvidia
4). Power draw is going to be less than Nvidia
5). Availability is anyones guess
 

LukeTbk

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My prediction would be to go with AMD claim of a 50+% upgrade in performance by watts and not having moved that much in the power consumption to be able to keep that claim.

And if that the case and if they are able to make volume of cards, I am not sure how the announced 4080 at those price will make sense, a 1.5 time 6800xt would give us 85% of a 4090 for I imagine $800-850 (or maybe they would not see high volume possible, see the pricing of the competition and go the high price road has well and have that card at $999).
 
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Lakados

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My prediction would be to go with AMD claim of a 50+% upgrade in performance by watts and not having moved that much in the power consumption to be able to keep that claim.

And if that the case and if they are able to make volume of cards, I am not sure how the announced 4080 at those price will make sense, a 1.5 time 6800xt would give us 85% of a 4090 for I imagine $800-850.
I would like that to be true but AMD has told investors that as they expect fewer sales due to lower demand they want to try and hold if not increase their margin upwards, it currently sits at 55%
If they release a card that is 85% the performance of a 4090 for better than half the cost, scalpers will eat that up faster than ever and correct that price adjustment. AMD would then probably face an investor lawsuit for undervaluing its hardware, so while my wallet desperately wants you to be right, the state of AMD's board simply won't let that happen. But I would rather root for your version of things than mine so I am going to agree with you in the hopes that if enough of us do we can manifest it into reality like some sort of elder god from the warp.
 

LukeTbk

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If they release a card that is 85% the performance of a 4090 for better than half the cost, scalpers will eat that up faster than ever and correct that price adjustmen
True by thinking about it, they also have a nice option to not have the 800xt version be close to the 900xt and 950xt and could rise the price and lower the 800xt performance versus the top end.
 

Lakados

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True by thinking about it, they also have a nice option to not have the 800xt version be close to the 900xt and 950xt and could rise the price and lower the 800xt performance versus the top end.
I would rather AMD just come out ignoring the 4080 and 4090 cards and instead put out stuff that beats out the 3060-3090ti in every measurable metric.
The huge oversupply of the 3000 series is a noose around Nvidia's neck and if they want to gain market share while hammering at Nvidia that is the place to aim.
4K PC gaming makes up between 3-5% of the market depending on which source you are looking at, so 95% or more of us live at 1440p and 1080p, we are the people AMD should be actively aiming for. Let Nvidia have its unrealistic halo products, AMD has a real opportunity to make a name for itself as the GPU for the people, and it's an opportunity they should not let slip by.
 
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LukeTbk

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I think the announced price of a 380mm die 736GB/s 4080 GPU openned the door all open for AMD to beat them there, with the chiplets and 6nm still used for the non critical part, they could keep high margin on a much cheaper card with similar performance would be my guess.

Or maybe Nvidia know something that we don't (both in how well by christmas the 4080 would do in new games and how not the obvious they seem to be gain in performance-price to make RDNA 3 end up being).
 

UnknownSouljer

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Control uses Northlight, Remedy's own engine. I can't find anything that says it was derived from Unreal Engine. Northlight does seem very well optimized.
Thanks. I learned something today. Glad to see someone is capable of making things that make sense outside of Epic. As great as Unreal is, I dislike Epic in general as a company.
 

HeadRusch

[H]ard|Gawd
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Not with ray tracing.

But....to be fair.....when was the last time you turned on RT and your jaw dropped........and not just from the performance hit ;)

While RT is nice, in the end, it's also very preliminary and the Dev's aren't sure what to do with it yet because almost nobody (yet) can run it's features "acceptably".
I've seen a few games with RT turned on, it looks like someone jacked up the gamma curve so black became 'grey'......then I play a "simple" game like Forza Horizon 5 which is not using RT and I'm blown away by how good the world, cars, reflections, lighting looks...and I go "Am I really missing anything *yet*?"

Honestly, I'm still pissed that in 2022 I'm still seeing LOD pop-ins....nothing like watching a field of plants suddenly bloom to life in front of me, or seeing flat ground textures turn to grass in 3rd person or 1st person shooters.....fixing that, to me, is hella more important than RT when its clear the 40 series is literally the first generation that makes it even viable. And viable in that "Level 1" way, like we're still at the Rotary Corded phone days. 5 years from now, we'll advance to push buttons ........

My .02 "holy crap is this off topic" centz....with a z.....for attitude ;)
 

kamikazi

[H]ard|Gawd
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But....to be fair.....when was the last time you turned on RT and your jaw dropped........and not just from the performance hit ;)

While RT is nice, in the end, it's also very preliminary and the Dev's aren't sure what to do with it yet because almost nobody (yet) can run it's features "acceptably".
I've seen a few games with RT turned on, it looks like someone jacked up the gamma curve so black became 'grey'......then I play a "simple" game like Forza Horizon 5 which is not using RT and I'm blown away by how good the world, cars, reflections, lighting looks...and I go "Am I really missing anything *yet*?"

Honestly, I'm still pissed that in 2022 I'm still seeing LOD pop-ins....nothing like watching a field of plants suddenly bloom to life in front of me, or seeing flat ground textures turn to grass in 3rd person or 1st person shooters.....fixing that, to me, is hella more important than RT when its clear the 40 series is literally the first generation that makes it even viable. And viable in that "Level 1" way, like we're still at the Rotary Corded phone days. 5 years from now, we'll advance to push buttons ........

My .02 "holy crap is this off topic" centz....with a z.....for attitude ;)
You need an upgrayedd
 

ChadD

Supreme [H]ardness
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5,901
But but but RT.
Ya ya we are at 80 titles and counting. I know I know all those new Unreal games are coming. Ok. Wake me up when any of them are worth more then one 8-12 hour playthrough.
Biggest problem Nvidia has had in the last couple years was caused by Project Red. That was supposed to be the game that made you want an Nvidia card.... well it just isn't.
I own CP... and control. I think that might bet he extent of RT titles I have. Oh I also have Rift breaker. Just not enough titles even now to justify the Nvidia tax from two years ago when titles where even fewer.

Anyway... I have a feeling AMDs RT numbers are about to see a serious uplift. The 7000s I have a feeling are a generational leap unlike anything we have seen. Think Bulldozer->Zen... the same engineers have been cooking this one. There is a reason Nvidia came out swinging with their data center die first... and left at least a little room for a TI with just a little bit more meat on the die. If they where not worried that die wouldn't have seen a consumer release... they would have been happy selling the 4080 die as a 90.
 
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I'm really hoping that AMD has been reading the Nvidia threads here on [H] so that they can deliver on our dream GPU:
1) 100W Max TDP
2) Specifically designed to run games no newer than 2016
3) Boosts AMD's stock price more than in-game FPS
4) 1-slot wide MAX
5) Please please please cost no more than $50
6) Resolutions above 1080p shouldn't even be selectable options
7) 2GB of VRAM should be PLENTY. Honestly, I haven't even turned on texture mapping in most games because I just don't see the point.
8) The card must be completely undesirable to ensure there are always units sitting on shelves.

Did I miss anything?
 

NightReaver

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Messages
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I'm really hoping that AMD has been reading the Nvidia threads here on [H] so that they can deliver on our dream GPU:
1) 100W Max TDP
2) Specifically designed to run games no newer than 2016
3) Boosts AMD's stock price more than in-game FPS
4) 1-slot wide MAX
5) Please please please cost no more than $50
6) Resolutions above 1080p shouldn't even be selectable options
7) 2GB of VRAM should be PLENTY. Honestly, I haven't even turned on texture mapping in most games because I just don't see the point.
8) The card must be completely undesirable to ensure there are always units sitting on shelves.

Did I miss anything?
Lol the 7th one is the funniest because "It's enough Vram, stop worrying" was Ampere in a nutshell.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
6,866
I'm really hoping that AMD has been reading the Nvidia threads here on [H] so that they can deliver on our dream GPU:
1) 100W Max TDP
2) Specifically designed to run games no newer than 2016
3) Boosts AMD's stock price more than in-game FPS
4) 1-slot wide MAX
5) Please please please cost no more than $50
6) Resolutions above 1080p shouldn't even be selectable options
7) 2GB of VRAM should be PLENTY. Honestly, I haven't even turned on texture mapping in most games because I just don't see the point.
8) The card must be completely undesirable to ensure there are always units sitting on shelves.

Did I miss anything?
Should have a USB-C connector for DP alt mode that will never get used for a monitor but instead an AMD-branded banana cleaner that straps to your desk.
 
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Messages
932
It's disgusting that AMD is going to release new GPUs when there is still previous gen inventory on shelves.
 

Randall Stephens

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
1,577
But....to be fair.....when was the last time you turned on RT and your jaw dropped........and not just from the performance hit ;)

While RT is nice, in the end, it's also very preliminary and the Dev's aren't sure what to do with it yet because almost nobody (yet) can run it's features "acceptably".
I've seen a few games with RT turned on, it looks like someone jacked up the gamma curve so black became 'grey'......then I play a "simple" game like Forza Horizon 5 which is not using RT and I'm blown away by how good the world, cars, reflections, lighting looks...and I go "Am I really missing anything *yet*?"

Honestly, I'm still pissed that in 2022 I'm still seeing LOD pop-ins....nothing like watching a field of plants suddenly bloom to life in front of me, or seeing flat ground textures turn to grass in 3rd person or 1st person shooters.....fixing that, to me, is hella more important than RT when its clear the 40 series is literally the first generation that makes it even viable. And viable in that "Level 1" way, like we're still at the Rotary Corded phone days. 5 years from now, we'll advance to push buttons ........

My .02 "holy crap is this off topic" centz....with a z.....for attitude ;)
Forgot to capitalize the “E” for xTreme…
 
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